U24.2 Captain Class Update Feedback

[LordOfTheSquids]

Please post any feedback or bugs related to Captains in this thread.

[Olebenny]

Please make grave wound also not be able to miss when specced to be a taunt

its the last thing im asking for with cappy changes, give it the BoE treatment please. I know many many many cappy tanks who will love you for this

[Aeviternus]

Blue line got the healing boost it deserved, but the capstone traits are still very underwhelming. The healing on Valour should be significantly increased, or altered in effect entirely. For example, it could give 1% extra tactical crit chance per stack. Reform the Lines is still quite underwhelming for a 2-minute cd.

If Reform the Lines is to stay as it is, please note the following bug: if the captain gets stunned during the animation, the captain's health will be subtracted, but the AoE heal will not be applied.

Additionally, blue capstains still face the same problem they have always faced; a lack of single target burst healing. Please consider making Words of Courage fill that role, instead of a relatively worthless HoT effect. Captains have enough HoTs as it is. Perhaps the overall AoE healing should be somewhat reduced, if captains gain significant single target healing.

[Mukor]

Please make grave wound also not be able to miss when specced to be a taunt

its the last thing im asking for with cappy changes, give it the BoE treatment please. I know many many many cappy tanks who will love you for this

BUT Boe shouldn't take the hardened state anymore if it get the treatment.

And please reduce the mark cd as far as possible, best would be no CD.

[gildhur]

Captain

• Fixed skills that were improperly cutting off 'self' effects.
• Cooldown of Revealing Mark proc now set to 5s as listed on the skill.
• Revealing Mark skill now has a 5 second cooldown.
• Noble/Telling Mark skills now have a 3 second cooldown.
• Reduced Standard of Valour, Standard of Honour to max 20% buffs.
• Increased damage of several Captain attack skills by 10-15%
• Blade of Elendil now does base Light damage.
• BoE can now no longer miss, or be BPE'd.
• Fury of Elendil no longer provides a light damage proc, it now instead makes BoE a taunt skill.
• Shadow's Lament damage upgraded significantly.
• Kick cooldown reduced to 10s.
• Last Stand now heals base 20% of max morale (+~20% from legacies).
• Devastating attack damage increased significantly.

All looks very good. Looking forward to trying it out.

[1Asy1]

Please make grave wound also not be able to miss when specced to be a taunt

its the last thing im asking for with cappy changes, give it the BoE treatment please. I know many many many cappy tanks who will love you for this

BUT Boe shouldn't take the hardened state anymore if it get the treatment.

And please reduce the mark cd as far as possible, best would be no CD.

Agree with both of these points - would appreciate this happening SSG.

Happy with the rest.

Lob

[Hephburz-2]

Agree with both of these points - would appreciate this happening SSG.

Happy with the rest.

Lob

I also agree.

Grave wound in yellow-line should not be able to be B/P/E'd.

And the Elendil's Fury version of BoE should not consume battle-hardened (However as a result it should not apply the Elendil's Boon buf (-20% incoming damage on your next hit)).
(NOTE: I see what you've done here, you've removed the 'stacking' element of Elendils Fury altogether, and just made BoE a force-taunt upon traiting).

And still wondering whether or not the 5/10s Cooldown reduction on battle-shout has been considered?

BoE bleed still does not reflect modern stat numbers (1.1k every 5s for 30s in Redline).

SiN HoT doesn't seem any different from live, except its now every 2s for 20s rather than every 1s for 10s? (The numbers on the heal itself remain unchanged...)

Also, you seem to have put the cooldowns for the marks the wrong way around. Revealing Mark and Noble Mark have a 3s Cooldown, whilst Telling has a 5s Cooldown (It would be appreciated, if the cooldowns for telling/noble could be removed COMPLETELY, considering there is no need to have a cooldown here as these skills were not changed in anyway from live > br, if required the only mark that does, is revealing, please consider this....)

Revealing mark has also been changed from a passive mark to an aggressive one - is this change WAI?

Trait - 'Honourable Blow' from Blueline still isn't applying the +4% incoming healing buff when you use valiant strike on the target with revealing mark.

Stun Immunity from the Lore-Master still prevents the usage of Fighting Withdrawal.

[Knight.]

Just a few quick things (will post regarding DPS later) that I want to put up on the radar:

• Strength in Numbers Tooltip and heals are considerably weaker on Beta #2 than on live (see below screenshots)
• Exemplar Heal (Yellow Line) was terrible on live, but on Beta #2 is practically non existent (see below screenshots)
• Exemplar Proc -> Reduced CD on Shield & Strength in Numbers not working (on either live or beta)
• Improved Grave Wound Buff not triggering on Beta #2 as it does on live
• Atm Telling Mark is on 5 Sec CD, whilst Revealing & Noble Mark are on 3 Second CDs

Strength in Numbers - Live
myself + herald, hit screenshot when pulses stopped



Strength in Numbers - Beta #2
myself + herald, hit screenshot when pulses stopped



Exemplar - Live
wearing non tank gear & turning back to 2-3 mobs for increased proc chance



Exemplar - Beta #2
wearing non tank gear & turning back to 2-3 mobs for increased proc chance



Mark CDs - Beta #2

Please make grave wound also not be able to miss when specced to be a taunt

+1

[Cil.]

Stun Immunity from the Lore-Master still prevents the usage of Fighting Withdrawal.

+1

And, for the third time (as this thread wasn't opened, I have posted in another one before, so I'm sorry for those who are reading it again… but I'm worried !) :

Please, notice that the area effect for the Revealing Mark is calculated from the center of the target.
Instead, my opinion is that it should work like a buffer area around the targets circle.

I've made some tests on a big mumakil, and as I stand on the exterior line of the target circle, I was yet among 4-5 meters from the target. And as I stand at 11 meters, it doesn't work. So it really seems to be calculated from the center of the target circle, and not like a buffer area around the targets circle. If I'm right, it won't be efficient on big bosses. 'Cause when they are quite huge like Ishvita in Anvil, that it will be quite impossible to be so close (in this case particulary, we might be OS when it bumps). And Hrimil has a ~13m radius target circle.

SSG Team, could you please give us an answer about this specific point ?
Thanks !

[Aeviternus]

Please note: raw HPS numbers are irrelevant to almost every encounter in the game. The sole purpose of this post is to breakdown the sources of healing for blueline, not to comment on the effectiveness of the healing, as a dummy parse does not provide us with enough information to reach a conclusion about its effectiveness.



As we can see above, three things stand out as being virtually useless; "Valour," "Focus Heal", and the heal labeled as "Hands of Healing".



Two of the aforementioned can be identified in the screenshot above. The upper one that has a 10% proc chance is "Hands of Healing", which is evidently woefully undertuned, to the point where it may as well be removed. Please do that, or buff it significantly, so that it actually contributes something. As it is, it has no purpose.

Then we can see "Focus Heal" comes from the Tactics: Focus, and does 2% healing over 10 seconds. This will scale up as the party size grows (this was just me and my pet), so I'm willing to say that this heal is significant enough to simply stay as it is.

Lastly, there is Valour. This is a capstone trait. Needless to say, the healing on it is terribly undertuned. Of course, the additional benefit of the trait is that it guarantees an occasional Valiant Strike crit to proc Inspiriting Presence, but if that is the only purpose of it, then just remove the heal component. Instead, as I suggested elsewhere, make each stack of Valour provide 1% tactical crit chance, which then has to be cashed out at the max. tier by using Valiant Strike.

As a final note, I think Words of Courage being a long-term single target HoT feels out of place. I would much rather have this ability provide the captain with the one thing it lacks; reliable single target burst healing. Please consider changing Words of Courage to a single target burst heal, on a longer cool down. Rallying Cry on a 15s is not enough to keep a tank alive through bursts of damage.

[Mukor]

Just a few quick things (will post regarding DPS later) that I want to put up on the radar:

• Strength in Numbers Tooltip and heals are considerably weaker on Beta #2 than on live (see below screenshots)
• Exemplar Heal (Yellow Line) was terrible on live, but on Beta #2 is practically non existent (see below screenshots)
• Exemplar Proc -> Reduced CD on Shield & Strength in Numbers not working (on either live or beta)
• Improved Grave Wound Buff not triggering on Beta #2 as it does on live
• Atm Telling Mark is on 5 Sec CD, whilst Revealing & Noble Mark are on 3 Second CDs

Strength in Numbers - Live
myself + herald, hit screenshot when pulses stopped



Strength in Numbers - Beta #2
myself + herald, hit screenshot when pulses stopped



Exemplar - Live
wearing non tank gear & turning back to 2-3 mobs for increased proc chance



Exemplar - Beta #2
wearing non tank gear & turning back to 2-3 mobs for increased proc chance



Mark CDs - Beta #2






+1

Then strength in numbers is the total difference as the explained changes. Shouldn't it heal more per hot for this in a shorter period (release notes).
Either you mixed it, or they naked a 180° turn.

And exempler as it is, is the perfect example why such heals should be percentage of maxmorale (1-2%/proc)

[Hephburz-2]

Then strength in numbers is the total difference as the explained changes. Shouldn't it heal more per hot for this in a shorter period (release notes).
Either you mixed it, or they naked a 180° turn.

And exempler as it is, is the perfect example why such heals should be percentage of maxmorale (1-2%/proc)

Yes. It should. But it doesn't. Obviously -_-

[Hephburz-2]

Please, notice that the area effect for the Revealing Mark is calculated from the center of the target.
Instead, my opinion is that it should work like a buffer area around the targets circle.

THIS. ESPECIALLY THIS.

Revealing mark WILL NOT WORK AS INTENDED with large bosses. PLEASE REVISE THIS.

Currently the 10m radius is from the very centre of the actual target, when in reality it SHOULD be 10m radius from where the target circle ends. This will make revealing mark almost useless on big bosses such as Isvitha (Boss1) and Hrimil (Boss4).

[Erionor]

Captain

• Fixed skills that were improperly cutting off 'self' effects. Great, thank you
• Cooldown of Revealing Mark proc now set to 5s as listed on the skill. Please remove the cooldowns on the marks or make as short as possible (or fix the bug that is the reason behind the cooldown so there is no need for it)
• Revealing Mark skill now has a 5 second cooldown. (Revealing Mark cooldown is currently 3s, this is a known issue)
• Noble/Telling Mark skills now have a 3 second cooldown. (Telling Mark cooldown is currently 5s, this is a known issue)
• Reduced Standard of Valour, Standard of Honour to max 20% buffs. Surprised anyone thought this was needed, but won't really know the impact until playing live. Gut feeling is it shouldn't have changed
• Increased damage of several Captain attack skills by 10-15% Great, thank you
• Blade of Elendil now does base Light damage. Great, thank you
• BoE can now no longer miss, or be BPE'd. Great, nice if other taunts couldn't be blocked either, as already mentioned
• Fury of Elendil no longer provides a light damage proc, it now instead makes BoE a taunt skill. Great, thank you
• Shadow's Lament damage upgraded significantly. Great, thank you
• Kick cooldown reduced to 10s. Great, thank you
• Last Stand now heals base 20% of max morale (+~20% from legacies). Great, thank you
• Devastating attack damage increased significantly. Great, thank you

Mostly very positive, but a last couple of tweaks that most folks who have been replying this week have been shouting out for would be much appreciated.

[Erionor]

THIS. ESPECIALLY THIS.

Revealing mark WILL NOT WORK AS INTENDED with large bosses. PLEASE REVISE THIS.

Currently the 10m radius is from the very centre of the actual target, when in reality it SHOULD be 10m radius from where the target circle ends. This will make revealing mark almost useless on big bosses such as Isvitha (Boss1) and Hrimil (Boss4).

Also /signed

[Mukor]

THIS. ESPECIALLY THIS.

Revealing mark WILL NOT WORK AS INTENDED with large bosses. PLEASE REVISE THIS.

Currently the 10m radius is from the very centre of the actual target, when in reality it SHOULD be 10m radius from where the target circle ends. This will make revealing mark almost useless on big bosses such as Isvitha (Boss1) and Hrimil (Boss4).

But max 10m from their circle, not 10m from their outstanding extremities. How attack range work.

[Naranor]

My main question is - what will happen with captain after next level up update. We never saw that captain was scaled with level up. 120 lvl is ended we will not see new areas and raid (may be only one 6 men dungeon). So we must think about 130 lvl and next.


Examplar is 7tier trait and wasn't scaled since 95 lvl.


In defence of middle-earth very weak after statcap was increased and mainstats was decreased to +2 from +8.
+33 legasy looks mocking - it's cost 33 anfalas scrolls.


Lend will was broken with 120 lvl. At 105 and 115 this skill heals more. Armaments - +2% damage do not work.


Melee skill power cost broken since Mordor, may be someone forgot to add adithional effect after 59 tier.


Standards was great item antil 120 lvl. Now crossbows and bows much better and they made for damage or tanking. Also captain have not range attack or skills with low cooldown, so standards could compensated it. Captain also have lowlest defencive stats from all tanks. Standards have offence and defence stats at same time. We need one standard with high morale and mitigation for yellow, one with outgoing healing and morale for blue, one with phisical mastery and morale for red.

Same thing with brother skills: in red line captain has buffs for melee and range, so blade-brother should adds phisical mastery and crit, in yellow line shield brother should adds mitigations, in blue line song-brother should adds tactical mastery and outgoing healing.

Also we need +10 seconds shield of dunedain on imbued LI. I never saw player which used li swaping for main legacy from which depends group/raid life and not failed. Swapers failed in our raids, failed in pugs where i was, failed in all videos what i saw.

[Zaheer]

Build#1 notes: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...aptain-buglist

My notes:



I'll continuously update this post as I progress through the testing.

Notes:





Blue

• Once Valour reaches tier 5, its supposed to burst a massive AOE heal around you. This passive heal is not affected by crit magnitude, nor scaled. (still is like 2k)
• This heal is also not scaled properly.
• Heal bonus to Inspire (Song-Brother) from Gallant Display buff only affects initial heal, not heal-over-time component. (Affects both components for power-restore.)
• Honourable blow trait adds a incoming healing buff to the fellowship when valiant strike is used on a target with revealing mark. Though, this incoming healing buff is not triggered. (Assumption is that it's not shifted to the new revealing mark)
• After extensive testing, I came to the conclusion that there seems to be an issue with Inspiriting presence. Whenever ISP triggers, it sometimes suddenly disappears. It also does not let all your heals proc as it say it should. For example, the following skills during ISP do NOT always crit
  
  • Valiant strike
  • Gallant Display
  • Rallyingcry
  • Inspire

Yellow

• Examplar does not reflect the proper healing.
• Examplar seems to be bugged in regard to cd reduction.

Red

• Light of Elendil damage over time is unscaled and does like 750 to -1.5/3k light damage over time, its really small.

Other




Im going on BR now to test build 2

[Hephburz-2]

But max 10m from their circle, not 10m from their outstanding extremities. How attack range work.

I literally, JUST SAID THAT -_-

[RicoFTW]

Just want to add if there is a chance to make Grave Wound 20 sec long dot again instead 10 like on BR #1 and #2. You have to trait Vital Stroke to make the dot duration as long as its skill cooldown but even then due to skill animation etc, a captain won't be able to keep any of their 2 dots up all the time unless you do emblem swap (which I do but seen some people moan about it).

Auto attack is now the third most damaging skill in CA, which is still not acceptable imo.

Good idea making previously useless yellow capstone trait a force taunt but to be honest, picking BoE is not the best idea as it removes your Battle-hardened state. Battle-hardened is -15% incoming damage reduction, +38.2% outgoing healing (which is not the end of the world in yellow) and +30% melee crit damage (if traited yellow + red, which doesn't really matter that much tbh), so the moment you use BoE to force taunt a mob whether it is a boss or some trash, you lose all the buffs above, mainly the incoming damage reduction, which imo doesn't really work together with a force taunt skill.

[Knight.]

Please, notice that the area effect for the Revealing Mark is calculated from the centre of the target.
Instead, my opinion is that it should work like a buffer area around the targets circle.

This is a really important consideration.
Training dummies are one thing, but instance/raid bosses are another and can get pretty large with mechanics preventing you from standing under / right up next to them.
I suspect the simplest fix at this stage is to increase the range of revealing mark to 20 meters so it's fit for purpose, across all content.

Either you mixed it, or they naked a 180° turn.

It's not mixed up.

Strength of numbers has 2 sec pulses on Beta #2 (hence the longer parse) rather than 1 sec pulses on live.
Our expectation from release notes was higher magnitude & overall more healing from strength of numbers.
However, as things stand right now, Strength of numbers on Beta #2 heals significantly less per pulse and overall than on live.

[Zaheer]

Just a few quick things (will post regarding DPS later) that I want to put up on the radar:

• Strength in Numbers Tooltip and heals are considerably weaker on Beta #2 than on live (see below screenshots)
• Exemplar Heal (Yellow Line) was terrible on live, but on Beta #2 is practically non existent (see below screenshots)
• Exemplar Proc -> Reduced CD on Shield & Strength in Numbers not working (on either live or beta)
• Improved Grave Wound Buff not triggering on Beta #2 as it does on live
• Atm Telling Mark is on 5 Sec CD, whilst Revealing & Noble Mark are on 3 Second CDs

Strength in Numbers - Live
myself + herald, hit screenshot when pulses stopped



Strength in Numbers - Beta #2
myself + herald, hit screenshot when pulses stopped



Exemplar - Live
wearing non tank gear & turning back to 2-3 mobs for increased proc chance



Exemplar - Beta #2
wearing non tank gear & turning back to 2-3 mobs for increased proc chance



Mark CDs - Beta #2






+1

I assume that SiN is not properly scaled yet, atleast make a note for it.
Examplar heal prob bugged aswell.
Reduction on CD is actually working if I remember correctly, though this may have recently bugged out or is just bugged out on BR.
I assume this is the -40% inc heal debuff for gravewound

Telling is a known issue they say.

[Knight.]

Beta #2 Parse without telling mark, oathies, banner



Note:
In Beta #1, same conditions I parsed 40.7K so this is a 12% increase from last BR
Ran a few additional parses (some were slightly above, some slightly below) + my rotation can still be improved.

[Mukor]

This is a really important consideration.
Training dummies are one thing, but instance/raid bosses are another and can get pretty large with mechanics preventing you from standing under / right up next to them.
I suspect the simplest fix at this stage is to increase the range of revealing mark to 20 meters so it's fit for purpose, across all content.





It's not mixed up.

Strength of numbers has 2 sec pulses on Beta #2 (hence the longer parse) rather than 1 sec pulses on live.
Our expectation from release notes was higher magnitude & overall more healing from strength of numbers.
However, as things stand right now, Strength of numbers on Beta #2 heals significantly less per pulse and overall than on live.

After read g the patch notes I awaited higher heals in a shorter time with less pulses. So that it would be more like a panic. This is the complete opposite. In Coe nothing worth more as a skill pushing on CD to have a few hots running.

And for the healing Mark, I'm against increasing the range to 20m,this would may solve the big boss problem but on smaller foes it would lost the force to stand melee.
And there is no boss which is lager as 10m so even it's calculated from the center we can stay at the ring.
Max range increase should be the 10m we've + radius boss circle.

[HolyDuckTape]

Blue cappy is still pretty underwhelming, no scaling on some heals (hands of healing is useless, valour is useless)
-Max valour does NOT give you a guaranteed crit for valiant strike
-The trait Honourable blow does NOT give incoming healing
-All heals(especially rallying cry has been hit very hard) have been reduced in beta build 2 compared to build 1.(nowhere does it say this in the notes)
-Reform the lines / blue banner are still very weak heals etc.
- Inspiriting Presence does NOT give you a 100% crit chance on all your heals (except for rallying cry/words of courage) which is insanely bad news. Make all the heals work like tactical skills as that's what the cappy buffs are based on.
-Cappy still lacks good burst/panic heals