Minas Morgul - Improved Valar (Collectors & Ultimate Edition)

[Knight.]

Please let us use the valar included in Minas Morgul Collectors & Ultimate Editions on a 120 character.
The Valar contains a lot of useful items (beyond the level boost) such as trait points and VXP and not everyone has lower level characters they wish to boost or wants to create a new one.

I'm also strictly speaking about the Valar included within the expansion packs.
Whether a store brought version can or cannot be used is a whole different discussion (at present you wouldn't even see them on a level 120 toon anyways).

This would help those of us who:

• Are interested in or have already purchased Minas Morgul (Collectors & Ultimate Edition)
• Play only one character which is already at level cap 120
• Play multiple characters already which are at 120 level cap and do not want to create a new character
• Have used past valars which have not been as good as new one (leaving significant gaps in traits, virtues etc)
• Do not want to go back and do old content
• Would like to benefit from trait point and VXP rewards on their main character which is at level cap even at the expense of losing boost on lower lever alt

For example:

• Whilst I do everything possible to min-max my main 120 Captain, I also have a second 120 Captain I use for instances/raids with 68/92 trait points, most virtues at level 52/60, 4x maxed out LIs, maxed out crafting & crafting guild on multiple professions and even a significant investment in stat tomes up to Rank 14/18.
• If this second captain was level 119, rather than 120 I'd instantly use the improved Valar with collectors or ultimate edition on it to fill the gap and reap benefits of existing investment and expansion rewards. However, because it's 120 it's stuck where it is (I have zero motivation to go back and do old content for a secondary toon).
• I could create a new captain and delete the above one whilst using the the improved Valar on newly created one, but then I lose my existing investment on traits, virtues, LIs, crafting, stat tomes etc.

Minas Morgul Collectors and Ultimate Editions cost $80 or $130 dollars which is a lot of money for an expansion pack and SSG held firm on this pricing despite a lot of player feedback saying otherwise. Whilst the pricing is fixed I think the value of these packs can be significantly increased by letting us use the Valar included in the expansion pack on a level 120 character should we wish.

If the concern preventing us using this improved Valar (which we pay for when purchasing collectors or ultimate edition) is that players will open it on the wrong toon and this error leaves them with bound to character items leading to an influx of tickets to Customer Service then perhaps one of the following would help avoid this:

• Warning message with red writing asking player if they definitely wish to proceed (if opened on a 120 character you get different items)
• A token with warning message included in collectors/ultimate edition or at Bree jail that demotes your 120 character to 119. You can then use the Valar as normal.

Thanks for reading.

[Knight.]

Just to clarify also (for those not familiar with how Valar works), being able to use an Aria on a 120 toon would not boost it beyond 120.
It would simply allow a 120 toon to open the Valar pack to make use of all the other items in there (which they have paid for by purchasing collectors or ultimate edition).
The boost itself still ends up being in inventory (but is unusable and outlined in red since you are already at level 120) so is simply discarded.

Edit:
On further thought & research the above is what used to happen originally with Aria's.
You could even purchase multiple (and players did using in game gold), open them all up, click on deeds separately, boost to higher level separately etc.
With Mordor and also the recent virtue revamp some things were changed from a technical perspective to make them easier to use:

From Update 24 release notes (regarding virtues)

•The Gift of the Valar (Level 50) will give five items that grant 20,000 Virtue XP, and 10 items that give 10,000 Virtue XP.
•The Blessing of the Valar (Level 95) will give 20 items that grant 20,000 Virtue XP.
•The Aria of the Valar (Level 105) will give five items that give 70,000 Virtue XP, and 15 items that give 20,000 Virtue XP.
•Note that the Virtue XP items from the Valars are acquired via a quest after consuming the Valar levelup item.

From Lotro Wiki (regarding trait points, which if I recall correctly from Mordor Valar are granted after you hit the boost and are ported.)

Update 21.2: The Aria of the Valar now includes a Class Deed Tome that will automatically complete trait point granting class deeds. If you have already used an Aria of the Valar, visit your class trainer and get your Class Deed Tome.

I'm not sure how the new one is planned to work and the technical obstacles, but I think a warning message if opening on 120 character, followed by slightly different items would probably be the best solution here.

[Nydhogg]

In an ideal world I see no problem with this. They let you use it from 5-119, so really 120 won't matter. There must be some practical issue.

One you've already addressed: people using it on the wrong character and writing to support why would I use a level boost to 120 on a 120 character?

The other one is perhaps more technical: can our characters gain negative experience? What if you're level 120 and a bit, you'll be reset to 120? No one intentionally using this will have a problem with it but is it even possible? Same question for your suggestion to be demoted to level 119. Often quests unlock upon hitting the level cap, are things going to break if you hit 120 again? I don't know.

I don't know how these valar packs work but perhaps it can be fixed if it opens into different items:
here's your level up item (Unable to use at 120, bound to character, so must be destroyed.),
here's your virtue xp tomes,
here's your trait points clicky,
etc.

[psynexus]

I agree with this both from the perspective of QoL as a player and the marketing aspect for SSG.

Allowing characters to have access to the benefits the package gives (and not just the change in level) is where the real value in these boosts are and I would be willing to bet players would shell out their hard-earned LP or cash to get these for new and existing characters. There's so much value in being able to get a new toon to endgame for those who want to be able to jump right into it but especially so for veteran characters that players have mastered playing but whose skills may have fallen behind at some point.

In my opinion, Valar upgrades are one of the main draws of new expansion packs and every effort should be made to make them as versatile as possible for characters. Any of the methods suggested here would work, but it's very important that players be allowed to reap the benefits of this package and have an easy way to get access to more of them should they choose to boost multiple toons.

My personal suggestion would be to just remove the level-cap from the package; allow players to use it at any level so that effectively you gain access to the XP/IXP/class points/traits/virtues etc. equivalent to a lvl 120 character. For characters over lvl 120, the only real conflict I see is XP/IXP - this could be remedied by capping those tomes at lvl 120. There are a lot of different ways this could be done, but the main idea here is that the core attributes of the player would be brought up to lvl 120 stats unless a particular aspect of the character surpasses that, then you could either just present a warning dialogue informing you of that, or find a way to cap it (maybe the way passive traits like "Novice" or "Riding" in-game disallow certain items or skills to be used)

[JimhadaUK]

Being able to open the Valar higher than level 119 would definately require a big red message warning you will only receive the benefits other than the XP to 120.

My memory is a bit fuzzy, but the 50 or 95 one gave a load of items, Virtue Tomes being one... which you could then pass to others on your account.
I dont know why they changed it, BUT, I dont see why they cant just make all the items in the Valar bound to account.
So you open it with a level 130 character... give the XP boost to one character... the Rohan Deed Tome to another character... the VXP to another...
At the end of the day you still bought all those individual items, it should be up to you to decide what character best uses the items.
We are talking about the important stuff here... not the Maps to Aldburg etc.

[zaboch]

Wholeheartedly agreed with OP.

Letting 120's use new Valar boost would shorten a lot of needless grind and would incite more purchases of said boost without really any downside.

[Fureo]

I totally agree that this specific Valar should be usable at Level 120. As others stated before, it contains usefull stuff besides the level boost.
IMO VXP and those skill points granted are still needed for charackters, which already made it to max level. I would love to see it be usable on level 120 because I also don't see any negative point which would speak against it.

[ChromiteSwiftpaw]

For the ridiculous price of the pre-orders the Valar / things included in them should be able to be used on any character, no matter the level. But I do strongly feel that the ones that are purchased outside of the Pre-Order when they go live should not be usable in this way.

[Emaldiom]

i 100% agree to this.
Making it possible to use at lvl 120 makes it not being "usless" for players that only have 1 toon at lvl 120 (and dont wanna make a new one)
Also it makes it good to "max out" a toon you just cant be asked levling true all the old content.

Should be like that from the start to be honest.

[scorrp10]

Totally agree. And make it apply to store-bought AoVs too.
I.e. EQ1 has 'Heroic' upgrade that boosts you to 85, with a set of gear, all AA, skills maxed for 85, bunch if other stuff, such as DoN progression and MPG trials.
Anyone can use it, even a lvl 110. You get boosts on skills, you get nice bags, mount, plat, merc tokens.
Especially if 120 Valar gives you highly unlocked ILIs, it wil be a huge hit with 120+ folks.

[Ballie]

I think the valar items should just boost the level of a character at reduced prices. The things that a player needs afterward varies so much that additional separate items should be available from the store in the higher price range.
It can't work as a "fits all" item.

I'd have these extras as Market $$$ only. If people are willing to pay, make sure it is a pay rather than saved/farmed LP.

[Lord.Funk]

/Signed.

I did not like the change to the 105 Valars that required You to be max 104. I used one, my bags had stuff in them (not full but ended up full after the valara was used) and I ended up with a box that I can not open as it says max 104 on it, as my character was now 105. Still have that box in my bags and can do nothing with it. I think it was the Valar that came with Mordor pack. No idea whats still in that box as I can not open it.

I much prefered the 1-50 and 1-95 or 50-95 Valars that You could also use on 50 and 95 characters respectively.

[MithrielWielder]

Yes, its obvious, but whatever gave you the idea that you could not use on a level 120 char ?

[JimhadaUK]

Yes, its obvious, but whatever gave you the idea that you could not use on a level 120 char ?

All previous Valar items require you to be (Level -1) to use them. So its a safe assumption this one will be the same.
If you can use it at the level that it boosts you to, then your XP is set to that level. So you could in effect lose XP.
Of course checks could be put in place.

[Lord.Funk]

Yes, its obvious, but whatever gave you the idea that you could not use on a level 120 char ?

Because they said so in Cord of The Rings stream, that the new Valars will only be able to be used on max LvL 119 characters.

All previous Valar items require you to be (Level -1) to use them. So its a safe assumption this one will be the same.
If you can use it at the level that it boosts you to, then your XP is set to that level. So you could in effect lose XP.
Of course checks could be put in place.

No they haven't. Only the 105 Valars worked like that with (level -1). All previous like 1-50 You could use on LvL 50 characters, 1-95 and 50-95 You could use on LvL 95 characters.

[JimhadaUK]

No they haven't. Only the 105 Valars worked like that with (level -1). All previous like 1-50 You could use on LvL 50 characters, 1-95 and 50-95 You could use on LvL 95 characters.

Your experience is different from mine. Though last time I used one of them was years ago.. so might be fuzzy. Wiki shows the Valars with min Levels 49 and 94. Im not saying things have not changed just my experience in using Valars (2x GoV) never allowed me to open them on level 50s, though I could send the Virtue Tomes to other chars on the same account regardless of level.

[Marxlne]

Can any of SSG officials please clarify how the new Valars work because i couldn't really find any official information. Right now we are all just guessing and assuming that new Valar works like the previous ones.

1) Are the new Valars only usable by under level 120 characters ?
2) What benefits exactly are automatically applied after using Character Level Boost item ?

If indeed new Valar is only usable under level 120 characters and it contains considerable amount of useful boosts (trait points, virtue xp) that are automatically applied then i would strongly recommend SSG to remove level restrictions of using this item.
As Knight pointed out there are many players who consider buying Ultimate/Collector's Edition but are only having one level 120 character or having all their alts level capped and not interested in making new alt.
If you restrict Valar item usage by level <120 then basically this item is unusable for lots of people and considerably lowers the interest of investing money on Ultimate/Collector's Bundles.

[Lord.Funk]

...

1) Are the new Valars only usable by under level 120 characters ?...

That point was adressed by staff in Cord of The Rings Stream and they said that it was useable from LvL 5 (and after getting the title You get for leaving the starter zone) and up to LvL 119.

Somewhere during the first 20-25 min of this stream.

YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7_Kf5RbgVo

[Marxlne]

That point was adressed by staff in Cord of The Rings Stream and they said that it was useable from LvL 5 (and after getting the title You get for leaving the starter zone) and up to LvL 119.

Somewhere during the first 20-25 min of this stream.

Ah, thanks. Had to rewatch it ... exact timestamp was actually on 7:50 minute marker:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7_K...youtu.be&t=470

[Lord.Funk]

Ah, thanks. Had to rewatch it ... exact timestamp was actually on 7:50 minute marker:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7_K...youtu.be&t=470

Thank You for that !!! I was too lazy to rewatch it and find the exact timestamp. I just took it out of memory that they had said it.

[Osglinthor]

+1 for this,I have alts that are getting little playtime just because of missing points and I have no itention of grinding them ever again after 5 times.I would buy valar for these toons to get trait points.

[Knight.]

Any chance we can get a reply from devs please?
It would help those of us still waiting to pre-order Minas Morgul make a decision as to which edition to go for.

[Osglinthor]

Any chance we can get a reply from devs please?
It would help those of us still waiting to pre-order Minas Morgul make a decision as to which edition to go for.

I didnt watch last stream but saw someone on youtube who watched it say its gona be usable on lvl 120 toons.

[Lord.Funk]

Any chance we can get a reply from devs please?
It would help those of us still waiting to pre-order Minas Morgul make a decision as to which edition to go for.

I didnt watch last stream but saw someone on youtube who watched it say its gona be usable on lvl 120 toons.

Yes, confirmed in last stream that it will be useable on LvL 120 characters. They had read what player have said on the forums and have no objections to make it so.

HOWEVER, they also said that that goes for the Valar that come with the bundled expansions. They are not sure yet if they will make store bought valars work that way as well. Since they don't want someone being LvL 120 by mistake buy a 120 Valar and use it, thinking they will gain levels as well and not get any LvL increase. That might create alot of misunderstandings and extra work to correct after complaints from people buying a valar in the store I guess. Yes, there might be someone not reading descriptions. To be 100% clear, they did NOT say that they won't make store version valars work that way and have no objections to it per se, just a reservation taking this scenrio into consideration before they make a final decision. I would like them to make them work on 120 characters, but I also understand that there will always be someone, that one or two persons screwing it up in use. Nothing sursprises me anymore.

What Cordovan said exactly You can hear Yourself in the stream video at 28:38 into the video.

YouTube Link: The Carry-All - +Cord of the Rings - The Lord of the Rings Online (this video link starts at 28:38)

If You use the below embedded video link You will have to skip manually to 28:38 to get to that specific part.