0 Loots given in MM dungeons

[Armitas]

I am getting 0 Loot from both shadowroost and harrowing on T2. I have done harrowing twice with 0 loot, the last time it put me on lock timers for both chests, but got nothing from them. Just did Shadowroost today. 0 Favored, 1 common, no locks, no loot. That is 3 runs with nothing to show for it. Do these not give other loot when favored is out? Seems like something should drop when it's not fully locked. I am in a state of shock that I payed $40 dollars for an expansion with 4 3-man dungeons which I can only play twice a week. So that's a day maybe, and the rest of the week is just logging on for the MT dailies and then playing something else.

[HolyDuckTape]

I am getting 0 Loot from both shadowroost and harrowing on T2. I have done harrowing twice with 0 loot, the last time it put me on lock timers for both chests, but got nothing from them. Just did Shadowroost today. 0 Favored, 1 common, no locks, no loot. That is 3 runs with nothing to show for it. Do these not give other loot when favored is out? Seems like something should drop when it's not fully locked. I am in a state of shock that I payed $40 dollars for an expansion with 4 3-man dungeons which I can only play twice a week. So that's a day maybe, and the rest of the week is just logging on for the MT dailies and then playing something else.

So you got absolutely nothing from the chest? Sounds like an unknown bug. Try contacting a GM

[thinx]

Same in this thread:
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...stance-cluster

[Gorikon]

Same in this thread. [...]

I think in the other thread ppl complain that they get no loot from favoured pulls. Armitas seems to have used up his/her favoured pulls and refers to common pulls.

Do these not give other loot when favored is out?

My experience: I did Harrowing T2 and Roos T2 with only common pulls left. Every chest yielded ~300 silver for me. And that was it. Four chests, four common pulls, silver only.

Common pulls were advertised as "lower drop chance than favoured pulls, but you still get something, so you have an incentive to help a kinnie or friend out when your favoured pulls are used up". If "lower drop chance" means "only silver for you", there isn't much of an incentive.

Is this WAI? Or did I just have bad luck? Anyone here who got loot from a common pull on T2 or T3? If yes, what did you get?

[thinx]

I think in the other thread ppl complain that they get no loot from favoured pulls. Armitas seems to have used up his/her favoured pulls and refers to common pulls.

Armitas is posting in both threads, so who knows.

@Armitas:
Please clarify your statements about your pulls/locks. The information you gave is not clear enough. What is needed:

For every run with no loot:

• Time of run (weekday + time, to find out if there was a reset)
• chest lock status before (or a list of runs + weekdays before)
• chest lock status afterwards.

Speaking about drops in common pulls and T1: We also get sigils that run into the currency cap

[Armitas]

Armitas is posting in both threads, so who knows.

@Armitas:
Please clarify your statements about your pulls/locks. The information you gave is not clear enough. What is needed:

For every run with no loot:

• Time of run (weekday + time, to find out if there was a reset)
• chest lock status before (or a list of runs + weekdays before)
• chest lock status afterwards.

Speaking about drops in common pulls and T1: We also get sigils that run into the currency cap

Remembering as best I can.
Sunday - harrowing no loot - no lock status First chest gave a yellow, second chest gave nothing.
Monday - Harrowing no loot - no lock status, both chests were empty. After looting each chest was put on lock status for each chest.
Tuesday - Shadowroost no loot - Presently at 1 common left. So had 2 common when I looted.

I am getting silver from the chests.

Yeah I cringe every time I finish a deed whose only reward is sigils. I'm about to do trial of despair which rewards 10 sigils, and that is like tier 5 in vale of sorcery...which at that point one far beyond the cap. Good news is I likely won't get those sigils because the quest says (spoiler) find the places on the map...no places on the map.

[thinx]

Remembering as best I can.

Forgot to ask: All of them are T2?

[BilbosBelly]

Remembering as best I can.
Sunday - harrowing no loot - no lock status First chest gave a yellow, second chest gave nothing.
Monday - Harrowing no loot - no lock status, both chests were empty. After looting each chest was put on lock status for each chest.
Tuesday - Shadowroost no loot - Presently at 1 common left. So had 2 common when I looted.

I am getting silver from the chests.

Yeah I cringe every time I finish a deed whose only reward is sigils. I'm about to do trial of despair which rewards 10 sigils, and that is like tier 5 in vale of sorcery...which at that point one far beyond the cap. Good news is I likely won't get those sigils because the quest says (spoiler) find the places on the map...no places on the map.

Armitas, I'm doing that quest - the places are on the map, you just need to zoom out of MM to all of Mordor

[Armitas]

Forgot to ask: All of them are T2?

yep all t2

[Armitas]

Armitas, I'm doing that quest - the places are on the map, you just need to zoom out of MM to all of Mordor

Ah thank you. Never would have done that, cause the map you use from the table is just of MM. Need to start thinking more out of the box.

[thinx]

yep all t2

Thanks for providing the info. I hope a dev reads it and it is complete enough by now.

[Mukor]

Lower dropchance means lower dropchance. It´s nowhere written how high this lower chance is.
If it is 10% it would mean you find one item in 10 runs in average. Which even means 10 runs 1 item sure no you can still run 18 times find nothing and in 19 and 20 each run one item etc.
Lower chance is even possible.
So it´s no bug not even neccessarely bad luck just math through mechanics which leads to a point that it´s not worth to run each instance more often as twice a week per char.

[thinx]

So it´s no bug not even neccessarely bad luck just math through mechanics which leads to a point that it´s not worth to run each instance more often as twice a week per char.

Others (including me) get something out of almost every chest (crafting components are only ~30% though). So if the chance of getting something seems to be >90%, getting nothing 3 times in a row seems more buggy than likely.
And IF the chance of getting *nothing* out of T2 exists, it should be eliminated. We should not go as far to say that the "only true way of playing the game" is T3. T2 takes sufficient time to justify a reward. Please note the use of the word "time".

[Mukor]

Others (including me) get something out of almost every chest (crafting components are only ~30% though). So if the chance of getting something seems to be >90%, getting nothing 3 times in a row seems more buggy than likely.
And IF the chance of getting *nothing* out of T2 exists, it should be eliminated. We should not go as far to say that the "only true way of playing the game" is T3. T2 takes sufficient time to justify a reward. Please note the use of the word "time".

That is the mechanic 10% means toll in the background. 1-10= item 11-100= no item (or vice versa).
10 numbers grant an item 90 not. In average this leads to 1 item each 10 runs.
In reality some are luckier with their rolls others not.
E.g. coin flip 50% chance for head or tail but you can have a row with 10 tails or even more.
After the favored statistic is greeting and you can gamble while the dps are unkown somthing lower as 100% chance.
My 10 % were just an example to Show some numbers and what it would mean.

[Palenen]

I just received common crafting mats from a 'Rare Mordor Chest'

[thinx]

That is the mechanic 10% means toll in the background. 1-10= item 11-100= no item (or vice versa).
10 numbers grant an item 90 not. In average this leads to 1 item each 10 runs.
In reality some are luckier with their rolls others not.
E.g. coin flip 50% chance for head or tail but you can have a row with 10 tails or even more.
After the favored statistic is greeting and you can gamble while the dps are unkown somthing lower as 100% chance.
My 10 % were just an example to Show some numbers and what it would mean.

It is possible, but it is unlikely, as written above.
Up to now only a few people reported getting nothing (OP: 0 loot), so the drop rate seems to be >90%.
The OP reported 6 chests in a row, which is a probabilty of 10%^6=0.0001% then. Possible, but the chances that this is a bug are IMO equal.

There is another approach that could help here. Why should a designer sit down and decide to type in a drop chance of >90% that is not 100%? What is the thought train behind it? "I want to give players something in allmost every case, but in a few very rare cases they should get nothing. Muahaha?". The only reason I could imagine would be to trigger forum discussions :-)

So in short: it is probably a bug, but even if it is not it might be a typo of the involved dev.

[Cordovan]

When people say they are getting "nothing", do they mean literally nothing populates in the chest, or that the things that populate are deemed to be of no value?

[Daniyel]

I've experienced what is being described here. OP please confirm i have it right.

Only 4 Sigils/Coins of Imlad Morgul are dropping - the 4 signifies a favored loot opening. common loot only loots 3 coins.

no other loot dropped for me, but it dropped for other persons in the party. i think just bad luck.

I had the same happened in TG t3 1st boss last night, except two people got purple jewlery, and 4 people go 4 coins of grarik and nothing else.

[cdq1958]

Others (including me) get something out of almost every chest (crafting components are only ~30% though). So if the chance of getting something seems to be >90%, getting nothing 3 times in a row seems more buggy than likely.
And IF the chance of getting *nothing* out of T2 exists, it should be eliminated. We should not go as far to say that the "only true way of playing the game" is T3. T2 takes sufficient time to justify a reward. Please note the use of the word "time".

No. These are Bernouilli trials. For a drop rate of 90%, that means 9 ways to succeed and one to fail out of ten, on average; given a large number of trials. So, do *not* forget the variance. Even with a 1% success rate, you can have a long string of successes. Very rare; but given enough trials, there will be at least one who will see it happen. The same in reverse. Given a 99% success rate, and enough trials, there will be at least one who will see a long string of failures. "Long" still has to be defined . There are ways to put bounds on the actual rate given a sample rate; but, even there, uncertainty is still present; unless there is given/shown evidence specifying what that rate is, in actuality. I've always gotten something from every chest. What that something ends up being varies. Some will call it 'nothing' because they can; and primarily, to me, because they don't see any utility. That's okay, as long as folk remember that others can, and will, disagree with them about said utility.

[Armitas]

When people say they are getting "nothing", do they mean literally nothing populates in the chest, or that the things that populate are deemed to be of no value?

For me I mean no items which would appear in my bag. I do get silver, not sure about sigils because I am capped. I'm watching the loot stream as well as my bag.

[Armitas]

I've experienced what is being described here. OP please confirm i have it right.

Only 4 Sigils/Coins of Imlad Morgul are dropping - the 4 signifies a favored loot opening. common loot only loots 3 coins.

no other loot dropped for me, but it dropped for other persons in the party. i think just bad luck.

I had the same happened in TG t3 1st boss last night, except two people got purple jewlery, and 4 people go 4 coins of grarik and nothing else.

I can't speak to the coins because I'm capped. I think you might be on to something though. Maybe these coins are triggering lock progression. If so, I hate these even more. I have nothing to spend them on, cap is ridiculously small, and half my deeds have finished wasting it's only reward on this cap.

[Raymore]

Isn't the cap on the Sigels 999? Did they raise the 500 cap from Mordor, Erid Mithrin, and Anduin to 999 too?

[Lord.Funk]

Isn't the cap on the Sigels 999? Did they raise the 500 cap from Mordor, Erid Mithrin, and Anduin to 999 too?

Problems is it's a combination of 999 cap AND being account shared. The Vales cap was 500 per character, so over Your account You could have alot more than 500 just spread on multiple characters. Not to mention alot of useful stuff to barter for with that currency. It was the same in Ered Mithrin.

In MM it's 999 cap, period. So if You run multiple characters through MM You will quickly end up at cap. Maybe You already bartered for the map and maybe one each of each banner and still You will end up back on cap in no time, with nothing worth bartering for.

Usually account shared currency is a good thing. However even that SSG has now managed to turn it into someting bad due to the low cap, nothing worth bartering for and a more or less useless area currency.

Oh and original Mordor having a 500 cap on "Silver Signets of the Thandrim" ??? That's new then, as I think I have like 1.000 + of that old Mordor barter currency, Silver Signets of the Thandrim, and its NO cap (well maybe 9999, not sure as I don't have that many) and account shared. Also valuable things to barter for with them. I never thought the day would come when I could say something was better in original Mordor, but yes it was as far as this is concerned.

In Minas Morgul it's a 999 cap and account shared. Also basically useless items to barter for with Sigils (the areas barter currency). Only cosmetics (mostly housing decorations in the form of banners, banners and banners) and a map. The cosmetics not even being any cool looking armour or anything. ONE pair of leggings, ONE pair of wrappings for Your hands, ONE pair of wrappings for Your feets. NO chest. NO helmet. NO shoulders. Then alot banners with various skins, a few cloaks, ONE pet and a map.

Instead to barter anything of use, You need yet another rep grind after that, namely "relics" that You need both to use to gain another rep (alot of it) and also use to barter for recipes and gear. Earning them are locked behind dailies, so You can not earn many of them, but it's a slow grind. Thos dailies are not unlcoked until you have mre or less completed all new regions. Both Mordor Besieged and all the small regions within Morgul Vale. As You need to consume the relics for rep, it also takes time to get the rep and then finally use some relics barter with as currency. It's insanity converted into game mechanics.

[Mukor]

When people say they are getting "nothing", do they mean literally nothing populates in the chest, or that the things that populate are deemed to be of no value?

Nothing with the meaning no armour as rewards, silver /coins (capped)only.

[thinx]

No. These are Bernouilli trials. For a drop rate of 90%, that means 9 ways to succeed and one to fail out of ten, on average; given a large number of trials. So, do *not* forget the variance. Even with a 1% success rate, you can have a long string of successes. Very rare; but given enough trials, there will be at least one who will see it happen

I did not say that it cannot happen :-).
It is just that the likelihood is comparable or lower than the likelihood of a bug (typically 1E-4/codeline).
Especially since the opposite (no bug) does not seem plausible. What is the purpose of a drop rate that is >90%, but not 100%? To make a few people angry? To improve group dynamics by giving a few people nothing from time to time? To start forum discussions?