Don't add mounted mobs if mounted combat is broken!!!

[CloudCastle]

Even if the devs did decide to add some mounted foes into newer regions in the future, we shouldn't assume that they are going to sprinkle them around willy-nilly so that everyone is stuck encountering them. (We know the current situation in the Langflood area was not intended.)

They can make them like fellowship quests...clearly labeled, confined to designated areas, and something you can do if you like, and skip if you don't. Fellowship quests are already designed this way, so making another quest type shouldn't be difficult as far as labeling and organization goes.

1) Keep the mobs in areas that are not right next to major travel paths (and don't let them stray onto these paths.)
2) Create mounted quests that lead to these areas, but do not mix in regular quests. This way the only way someone could stumble into this area would be if they were exploring off the beaten path.
3) Make the mounted quests obvious from the quest description that's that what they are.

[Arnenna]

You can't gear a character for Remmorchant T3 without essences, but the plot of this was to say just the same as people who want mounted combat to be optional.

The Sacrifice skill is only for medium steeds and it's not a solution to the problem, is a workaround.

You don't even need to fight a mob to be dismounted. Example: questing in Ered Lithui in Dor Amarth, mobs have shadow auras, even if the mobs are grey, they will dismount you without attacking you.

I agree that doing mounted combat vs foot mobs can be "exploiting" BUT, I would prefer THAT, to NOTHING. Let me present you some suggestions:

- Mounted combat against mounted combat enemies: YES, however, people who hate mounted combat will dislike it
- Mounted combat against dismounted enemies: YES, and people who hate mounted combat can ignore it
- Dismounted combat against mounted enemies: NO, annoying for everyone

That being said, with the current comments of people that can't accept that there is people who enjoy mounted combat, and they call for devs to completely ignore it, I just wish that they not only rework mounted combat, but that also, they add mounted enemies. I know it won't happen, but I wish. Because I would never enter into a thread to throw hate and call for something to be deleted that I don't like, but other people like. I could solidarize with haters of mounted combat by accepting that a rework can be done without adding mounted enemies, so such haters can ignore it, but after seeing these comments, if devs decide to add mounted enemies, I'm up to pay real money for those quest packs as support. Just, wow...

Yeah, now you're in the realm of taking things too personally. I'm in the "like it" camp when it comes to mounted combat, but only if it's done properly. Mounted players against mounted foes, in suitable terrain that is designed for that purpose. Anything else is either dumbing down the landscape (if we can use MC to mow down "on foot" mobs) or annoying (if mounted mobs can do that to players). I'll say it again for you . . . . I enjoy mounted combat, and I wouldn't say no to it making a comeback, but there are ways, if that is to happen, that it can suit everyone. All they need to do is put areas within regions where the content is optional/additional, and job done.

By the way if it's just survival you're after in the zones with auras that dismount, that's fine (though the sacrifice workaround does that anyway) but we shouldn't have high MC hitting skills where there are on foot foes. That's just taking candy from babes.

[gildhur]

I would love to see this is not a bug and mounted combat will get a scaling to 130.

I would like to see the opposite. Delete mounted combat entirely. Change the Volume III storyline to eliminate the training instance, delete all mounted skills/traits/xp, replace all mounted mobs with equivalent (or more difficult) mobs of the same type, convert the war-steed cosmetic system to apply to standard mounts, eliminate the mounted segment of Blood of the Black Serpent instance. It's just not fun. Kill it with fire.

[Raymore]

I started questing out of Limlok this morning. Was on a regular horse, I saw the mounted Goblins and dismounted. I sent my Onyx Lynx out to engage. Those Goblins were fast. The 'trail' they left behind them made it look like they were NPCs returning to their Patrol Point after having chased someone. They weren't, however. I killed a couple more on foot. Mounted up and perused a couple more, dispatching them after a bit on my Light Steed.

A Badger managed to unhorse me. A Badger. Went down to the cliffs to get to the River to do the Fishing Nets. While standing on the rocks another Goblin attacked as I was in the midst of redoing my Medium Steed to Spec in Sacrifice. Went to the other side of the River and on foot killed the remaining.

So, two were dispatch on the Steed, the rest on foot. I never did get to try out the Medium. And that bloody Badger, that's not right.

[Marancil]

Having finished Misthallows I see the game contradicts statements of the area being unsuitable for War Steeds.

It is the home to the "Mhearas". It is the home of Felarof. Eorl created the Eotheod there.

I'm not sure how much Misthallow being the home to the Mheares conflicts with the story and the quests of Entwash Vale, but to some extent there is a conflict. Then again, we know from deep lore that the forefathers of the people of Rohan came from areas in the northern flows of Anduin.

Considering the arguments back and forth of steeds needing wide planes to thrive... well, I am puzzled. Maybe they don't. At least SSG must believe so from the story we just went through. For all we know Eorl might have picked up Felarof just about anywhere vaguely related to the movements of the original tribes that came to be the Rohirrim.

[Seregthol]

A Badger managed to unhorse me. A Badger.

These two sentences sum up everything we need to know about this entire fiasco. And we're supposed to use this skill which hasn't been updated in 30 lvls to chase after "warg-riders gone wild"? lol Seriously, Devs?

[Arnenna]

Having finished Misthallows I see the game contradicts statements of the area being unsuitable for War Steeds.

It is the home to the "Mhearas". It is the home of Felarof. Eorl created the Eotheod there.

I'm not sure how much Misthallow being the home to the Mheares conflicts with the story and the quests of Entwash Vale, but to some extent there is a conflict. Then again, we know from deep lore that the forefathers of the people of Rohan came from areas in the northern flows of Anduin.

Considering the arguments back and forth of steeds needing wide planes to thrive... well, I am puzzled. Maybe they don't. At least SSG must believe so from the story we just went through. For all we know Eorl might have picked up Felarof just about anywhere vaguely related to the movements of the original tribes that came to be the Rohirrim.

Of course there are some areas in the new area where horses can run. And of course horses can run anywhere, even in a paddock. But combat is a different thing altogether. Mounted combat in LOTRO is all based on the build up of fury and for that, we need space and room to manoeuvre - and lots of it. Fury is gained as we speed up and lost as we slow down. It can only be maintained if we keep moving.

The Mearas were wild horses, and while Eorl tamed and trained Felarof, later descendants would only allow royalty to ride. Gandalf was allowed to ride Shadowfax. While our war steeds are inspired by the Mearas, we as players are not riding around on Shadowfax or any of his subjects, and I seriously doubt they would be dressed up in full armour if we were.

[Fegefeuer]

@ Arnenna - I don't take it personal, it's just that I can't really understand why some people just come to throw hate like this. I wish I could compare an aspect of the game that I hate to the point that I want it removed even if other people enjoy it. Even if I dislike essences, I know people enjoy adding their own stats as they like, so I never had the thought to ask SSG to delete essence system, even if I would love a non essence gear that can compete with essence gear in terms of raiding. That being said, I repeat, I can't understand people who ask for something to be forgotten or deleted that they dislike, but others like. You can express your dislikeness, you can complain (P2W, LI grind, everyone has complained about something at some point), but for example, LI grind, certainly I've seen some comments asking for removing LIs, but I can count that comments with the fingers of 1 hand. Most people complained and suggested for solutions, not to leave it behind or delete it. I've just seen this behaviour with mounted combat and big battles. Why is it so hard to understand that there is people who like it? Mounted combat and epic battles are two major reasons why I am in this game, the first makes me feel as a true rider, and the second makes me feel as a true soldier in a battle. If I want to play as a random hero, I do normal instances, but epic battles made me feel like a soldier, and ultimately, as a commander. No other game made me feel like that. So why asking for removing? Because you dislike it? Again, it's not personal, and if you feel this is personal (you not directly to you, Arnenna, you as plural to the people who want this to be deleted), maybe you can think that asking to delete mounted combat (or epic battles, now that we're in the explanation), is a personal attack to my way to enjoy the game. Don't overthink, but don't be fools anyway. What mounted combat lovers are asking is pretty simple - scale the warsteeds. We didn't even ask for a return to mounted combat enemies. We just ask for scaling. In fact, we are even doing warsteed haters a favour. Because if SSG scales warsteeds, you won't be oneshooted and dismounted. So I don't understand also why haters of warsteeds don't approve the idea of scaling warsteeds. Do you imagine that they scale warsteeds but only for the ones who love mounted combat? Then what would haters do? Complain that it didn't scale for them? Why do they complain, if they hate mounted combat and want it to be deleted? Let mounted combat lovers have their scaled warsteed, and meanwhile you (you - haters of warsteeds) can run or use regular mounts, or if you use warsteed... be dismounted with 1 shoot lol

@ Marancil - I think the same, if this was the home of the ancestors of the Rohirrim, I was expecting a more open-field area. It's a bit weird, indeed. I think this is the region I most disliked of the game... :/

What is worse than a badger dismounting you? A crawler dismounting you :P

Sorry if it seems personal but english is pretty limited when using pronoums, I felt the necesity to clarify what I mean with "you" in some sentences.

[Marancil]

@ Marancil .../... I think this is the region I most disliked of the game... :/

Actually I like the region, as such, even so out of the MC context.

- It is beautiful, versatile, many awesome spots to find. Worldbuilders have done a great job.
- For a casual solo player, difficulty is ok for me, gear upgrades even easy (I lack weapons upgrades though, but getting recipes).
- Even the hobbit quests, which tend to be a bore and a drag (IMHO), were not that boring and in reasonable amount.

All in all it felt easy, perhaps too easy. Even the Mob camps and the bosses. Having gone through the Mordor ordeal in comparison it is a breeze. Yet I wonder, why are the bartered upgrades so relatively cheap? Could get a set doing all quests and not repeating one yet from the Bounty board. It's like it is too good to be true...

Still a couple of spots I have yet to go to... guarded by too many mobs in small area... but I'll get there, I always do.

[mosselyn]

I came within a whisker of quitting this game for good back in Rohan because of mounted combat. I still hate it after all these years, but at least am no longer forced to endure it. I'm only too glad this is just a bug.

[Braer]

I can't believe anyone is holding on to the idea that mounted combat is about building up fury beyond that initial strike at a gallop. If you are waiting around for the fury to build rather than cycling through all your damage skills asap then your fights must be epic in length.

Close quarter mounted combat is needed in this environment (well at least for the next 8 hours sadly).
This old clip from back when they slowed then sped up the mount turn rate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi59NtK6gV0&t=73s

How many never got beyond that initial circling strategy and never learnt to actually control the mount at any required speed to suit the terrain and mob density?

[Marancil]

I can't believe anyone is holding on to the idea that mounted combat is about building up fury beyond that initial strike at a gallop. If you are waiting around for the fury to build rather than cycling through all your damage skills asap then your fights must be epic in length.

Close quarter mounted combat is needed in this environment (well at least for the next 8 hours sadly).
This old clip from back when they slowed then sped up the mount turn rate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi59NtK6gV0&t=73s

How many never got beyond that initial circling strategy and never learnt to actually control the mount at any required speed to suit the terrain and mob density?

I never go beyond canter in combat, even trot. I don't build up fury, the power consumption is far to great and will render my efforts void for a bit more powerful targets. This is of course in normal areas, the mounted mobs in Misthallow are not normal.

[Damrod_Freason]

Wilderland terrain is not suitable for MC at all. The mounted foes in the region need to be removed or have their mechanic changed.

... In your opinion.

See, there, I fixed that sentence for you.

Actually, in my opinion as well. It is possible and I had some degree of fun playing mounted combat in Wildermore like it was some kind of hard puzzle (think "Beacon of Eaworth" fun here), but I don't think that narrow vales and steep ravines do a suitable mounted combat environment make, especially having to trait Medium for survivability hence ending up with even less speed decrease and turn rate compared to Light.

Anyway, they're going to change the goblin riders' mechanics in next update, so this is all old news. But for the future I'd definitely love to have more ounted enemies, even if just in an optional area or instance or the like.

[Damrod_Freason]

I can't believe anyone is holding on to the idea that mounted combat is about building up fury beyond that initial strike at a gallop. If you are waiting around for the fury to build rather than cycling through all your damage skills asap then your fights must be epic in length.

Close quarter mounted combat is needed in this environment (well at least for the next 8 hours sadly).
This old clip from back when they slowed then sped up the mount turn rate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi59NtK6gV0&t=73s

How many never got beyond that initial circling strategy and never learnt to actually control the mount at any required speed to suit the terrain and mob density?

At times with my Captain in Wildermore I got so fed up with falling into ravines and accidentally aggroing extra enemies that I started standing perfectly still against enemies on foot and barely moved against mounted ones, using Command to force them to approach me instead of the other way round

Standing still also feels like speeding up kills a lot due to melee autoattacks DPS but I don't have exact numbers on that.

[Arnenna]

I can't believe anyone is holding on to the idea that mounted combat is about building up fury beyond that initial strike at a gallop. If you are waiting around for the fury to build rather than cycling through all your damage skills asap then your fights must be epic in length.

Close quarter mounted combat is needed in this environment (well at least for the next 8 hours sadly).
This old clip from back when they slowed then sped up the mount turn rate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zi59NtK6gV0&t=73s

How many never got beyond that initial circling strategy and never learnt to actually control the mount at any required speed to suit the terrain and mob density?

The idea of building up fury has been gone since we left Rohan, but it was the best way to take on mounted combat. If a fixed MC were to return, i'd hope that fury would mean something again. MC combat fights are epic long now regardless of how you do them, when compared to fighting on foot. I can't believe that anyone opts to mount their horse and cycle through their mounted skills asap when on foot is much faster, but, here we are, in a a new area, alongside mounted foes.

[Damrod_Freason]

The idea of building up fury has been gone since we left Rohan, but it was the best way to take on mounted combat. If a fixed MC were to return, i'd hope that fury would mean something again. MC combat fights are epic long now regardless of how you do them, when compared to fighting on foot. I can't believe that anyone opts to mount their horse and cycle through their mounted skills asap when on foot is much faster, but, here we are, in a a new area, alongside mounted foes.

They're not too long actually as long as the enemy doesn't get too far (some classes have skills tht help you control their movement if necessary). On foot DPS is higher (more or less depending on class played) but if you factor in 3 seconds to remount every time I'd usually rather stay mounted and both cycle skills AND make the most out of autoattacks.

[Gripn]

Please, no. I'd much rather the developers focused on class balance (hunters are in a very poor place at the moment) and developing new content. I've particularly enjoyed Remmorchant and the Mists of Wilderland.

[Braer]

The idea of building up fury has been gone since we left Rohan, but it was the best way to take on mounted combat. If a fixed MC were to return, i'd hope that fury would mean something again. MC combat fights are epic long now regardless of how you do them, when compared to fighting on foot. I can't believe that anyone opts to mount their horse and cycle through their mounted skills asap when on foot is much faster, but, here we are, in a a new area, alongside mounted foes.

You have to open your mind to the situations where there is a clear advantage. But it's rarely about the speed of the fight it's about the speed between fights and beating the other guy to your needed mob that they'll one shot on foot. It can be just about debuffs you'll face and the differences when mounted, stunned for 10 secs with your skill on CD against a slow but you are still in the game. Ofc it's normally pointless doing on level content mounted, unless the mobs are too. Doesn't stop me evaluating any new content and what approach to take, MC just part of the armoury. As a main hunter your damage sucks mounted unless you swap to crafted bow and main hand your offhand. Even then the champ and guard with the same bow will all but match you just with auto attacks. We are dealing with wholly broken mechanics after all.

[Echoweaver]

I'm a little surprised at the interest, to be honest -- I was under the impression that people mostly wanted mounted combat to remain behind us. But I'm willing to listen if I've gotten that wrong.

MoL

Adding my vote to the votes for more warsteed development. I'd really like to see a high-level steed be smoother to maneuver, but the combat is fun and different.

Heh. The, "This is truly horrible," sentiment overwhelms the, "This is kinda cool," sentiment 9/10 .

[Gaiandrial]

A bug is something that it not expected. This is a known problem that should have been fixed before release. It's either ineptitude or laziness.

LOTRO doesn't pre-test new content, they depend on user bug reports AFTER it is released, meaning there is a second waves of fixes after That as more bugs are found by users. Just examine the recent update history for new areas. It is kinda hard for them to dispute this fact as we have all seen Obvious bugs time and time again when new content is released, like the warg-riders, stables not working, etc etc etc - you know, stuff that Anyone who played the game would have spotted immediately. There is no Quality Assurance Dept. Just some dusty nameplate on an empty desk.

[Marancil]

LOTRO doesn't pre-test new content, they depend on user bug reports AFTER it is released, meaning there is a second waves of fixes after That as more bugs are found by users. Just examine the recent update history for new areas. It is kinda hard for them to dispute this fact as we have all seen Obvious bugs time and time again when new content is released, like the warg-riders, stables not working, etc etc etc - you know, stuff that Anyone who played the game would have spotted immediately. There is no Quality Assurance Dept. Just some dusty nameplate on an empty desk.

So Bullroarer is ... what...? SSG is a relatively small team and any software development in a complex environment will have bugs and thus patches. You can't test 100% everything and even if you could you may end up with some ambiguous results for some "bugs". When you complain about Lotro issuing patches you should really consider multi billion dollar companies not being able to do a better job, like Apple or Microsoft just to mention two. Neither W10 nor MacOS has ever been release in mayor versions without having patch versions coming up shortly after.

[Gaiandrial]

So Bullroarer is ... what...? SSG is a relatively small team and any software development in a complex environment will have bugs and thus patches. You can't test 100% everything and even if you could you may end up with some ambiguous results for some "bugs". When you complain about Lotro issuing patches you should really consider multi billion dollar companies not being able to do a better job, like Apple or Microsoft just to mention two. Neither W10 nor MacOS has ever been release in mayor versions without having patch versions coming up shortly after.

If Bullroarer had staff testing the content before public release then maybe bugs that anyone with a pre-frontal cortex could spot would be fixed Before the update ... I mean, that's what Bullroarer was intended for, right?

No, of course Everything can't be tested, the majority of the public don't have the tech skills to recognize "potential" problems for example.

The size of a company makes no difference, if you don't have the infrastructure of larger companies that just means it takes you longer to release a product of similar quality. When you rush a product out the door it shows and not only affects a company's reputation but turns away many potential new customers who see several bugs in the first hr of the game and decide to try something more reliable. If you REALLY wanna compare companies, choose other MMO's next time, they have a MUCH better track record than Apple or Microsoft

[Narthalion]

So Bullroarer is ... what...?

That's a very good question. Especially when keeping in mind how many problems/errors/bugs have been pointed out by testers beforehand..and yet still continue to be ignored by the Devs before things go "live".

[Arnenna]

So Bullroarer is ... what...?

Nowadays, it's a preview, nothing more. Things get found, reported, thrashed to death on the BR forum and still make it to Live.

[Miles_Ancestor]

I started questing out of Limlok this morning... A Badger managed to unhorse me. A Badger... that bloody Badger, that's not right.

SIR BORS: "Silly little bleeder. One badger stew coming right up!"....