An alternative Lotro for all players

[Daniyel]

you and Lotrovidz would start going on about WoW and how Blizzard

I personally don't give a #### about blizzard. different can of worms. apples and oranges.

[Daniyel]

okay?

[Daniyel]

Serendipity, I didn't have time yesterday to fully address everything. and I felt inadequate about that in my lack of response towards you sir/madam, so here's a more in depth response.

TLDR, I don't think any information they give you, short of it being illegal, would put this to bed because they have information they should never share publicly and no business ever does.

I disagree. here's an example of Microsoft releasing trade secrets in 2008 w/ regards to their old products from that time. over 30,000 pages available publicly through MSDN. "https://www.itworldcanada.com/articl...ws-office/2070"

I admire the passionate advocacy though. That and the support you have during this thread would no doubt be market research of its own sort. Fingers crossed, eh.

Thank you for this comment =) it helped me feel more inclined to write you a quality response.

C. Who knows. That would indeed be easy to tell you.

SSG knows. I'd like to hear from Cordovan or from one of his subordinates from Public Relations or Legal.

D. To answer this you'd have to know the running costs of SSG and the revenue stream they have now vs whatever the market research told you. So if you get a poll that says 'yes, 7000 players would join new or re-join at $10' would you know whether that was profitable for them to do or not? If they said it wasn't, would you believe them? Or would we be back to speculating on how to make that work?

I don't need to know the running costs of SSG or their current revenue stream. I was just asking for a Poll/cheap Market Research. Yes, I would believe them. and I don't speak for lotro vidz, so please for the love of Eru stop lumping us together. I'm starting to feel like Gandalf on the way to Orthanc with questions that need answering.

A. If they gave the cost and said it was too costly, you'd no doubt then tell them you were sure there were ways that could be funded, because you wouldn't have the full picture of their costs, revenues etc. and you're not going to get them to give you that, because no company would. And if they did, you'd no doubt then start telling them that you'd cut the cost of x and y to fund this. You'd be attempting to solve their problems and restructure their business to somehow prove it was affordable without understanding their feature roadmap across two games and indeed the strategy they have, which again, they're not going to share because these things change anyway.

Actually, no, if a blue name gave a cost and said it was too costly, I'd just say okay, run the kickstarter, and give them the money myself. If i wanted to run a company, i would be. but I don't want to do all that extra CR@P you described.

This part gets the the most irked - I made a separate post about it yesterday even.

>

B. See A. Seriously, whatever reason they gave, you and Lotrovidz would start going on about WoW and how Blizzard, with an entirely different codebase mind, did x in just a few days, this is Blizzard, btw, absolutely swimming in money, that could afford to put devs entirely on this and, as Lotrovidz admitted, then had to spend much longer getting the whole thing up to quality as a live service.

Where do I begin? for one, any legitimate reason would be met by me with open arms. Secondly, I would not even mention WoW or Blizzard, or EA games, or any other game unless it was specifically within the context of published code, release notes, bug fix reports, or something else Specifically pertinent to the the answer the original question: "Impossible to achieve it from a software developer PoV or SysAdmin PoV (again, looking for specifics here - Incompatibility between a 64bit version of the code from 2013 with modern virtual machines as an example)"

Thirdly, I probably won't even argue the point with them - they know better than I. So if they actually gave the answer, I'd have to accept it. just because I'm blessed with a career in System Administration and Software development, just because I hold a degree in Computer + Information Science, does NOT MEAN, that i want to continue the point. what it DOES mean, is that I'm actually asking the right questions here, unlike some people who shall not be named.

By the way, the argument 'it's only 2013 server code and so much easier than 2004 server code' is based on what?

I don't recall making this claim, but perhaps Lotrovidz did. for argument's sake, let's say I did make this claim. what did i base it on? Facts. Actual Facts.


Like these:

----2004 code was developed under Operating systems older than windows bleeping Vista. if developed on Linux (unlikely as it depends on Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 Redistributable Package), older distributions than the ORIGINAL release of RHEL 4(Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4 Nahant was released February 15, 2005 and uses Linux kernel 2.6.9-5 - source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Ha...e_Linux#RHEL_4 and Classic Red hat reached end of life in april 2004 per this source "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat_Linux")

----with 2004 code, we're talking the days of the iBooks where Apple PC's used POWERPC CPU's instead of INTEL CHIPS FFS!

----2004 code could not have been developed using Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Redistributable Package, which is 2 generations behind the current version used in LOTRO

----2013 server code, while still dependent somewhat on tech originally based in 2010, most likely used the most recent version released on August 9th, 2011 (Source - under details you can see "Version: 10.0 Date Published: 8/9/2011" "https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/down....aspx?id=26999"

-----In 2013, Micro$#!T had already released Windows 8. Modern UI had started to grow. the first Smartwatch, the Pebble, was released on January 23, 2013 - source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_(watch). While this has nothing to do with lotro server code from 2013, i think you get the idea of how the world in 2013, particularly the digital world, particularly, the software development world, particularly, the gaming industry itself, was different from itself in 2004.

Do you know how the server code works and compares between Blizzard and Lotro?

No, do you? No. Were you to ask me if I care to know? Nope. idgaf bout blizzard, or i'd be on the Blizzard forums. Alright. Im gonna go cool off. glad I gave myself space to cool off before writing this. Have a great day!

[solo1376]

There's baseless speculation regarding 'insane amounts of players returning'. Many will have families that might not have had them, so won't have the time they once had. I am one of those players and I know many I used to raid with are in a similar position. We've been there, done that, it has given us great memories, but we do other things with our lives now. However nice the older game mechanics might be, I can't take yet another character through what would otherwise be the same LoneLands quests, or Esteldin quests etc. too much would be the same and I suspect the balancing and trait nostalgia relates principally to fellowship and raid content. That's pretty niche in terms of sustainable ongoing revenue to fund a devteam at a profit. The legendary servers are surely a close enough interpretation of an actual attempt to do what the OP says that their failure offers enough evidence that it isn't going to work. The differences between those servers and what's proposed here are not 'game changers' in terms of revenue.

A kickstarter would confirm it either way. You might be surprised at the amount of money they would need to raise.

But for all my fond memories of SoA, you have the far more pragmatic issue of actual software development scope and capacity at SSG. I've been a games developer for 20 years, console through to mobile, for EA, Disney, Warner and Zynga, incidentally, so I feel I have some insight into what they're up against.
A small 'side team' would take years to get this working. Announcing it's ongoing will cause frustration with the existing playerbase who don't want it, and frustrate you because it'll be years before you see it and you might equally not feel like they'll definitely deliver it. How long do you think such a project would take to get right?
A small side team would slow development of the main game down frustrating the existing current player base and principle source of revenue.
A larger side team or a split dev team solves the one at the expense of the other. Until it can be more profitable and so protect jobs or improve the prospects of SSG's long term stability, it won't fly. If SSG are also developing D&D, I don't know how you get additional devs to do just this without confirming that it'll be profitable short of pulling off the D+D devs to deliver it. Do we know if that makes more or less money, by the way? What's the cost benefit analysis of shifting more dev to that?
Anyway, I think you'd need an additional devteam to protect current revenue and deliver this in the timeframe you'd be ok with, with a run rate that will cost hundreds of thousands if not millions to run per year. At the end of it, you'll get some of your former playerbase back at $10 a month, and probably only those who gave up LOTRO because of how it changed, rather than because they grew out of MMOs or got other stuff in their lives. We are both speculating as to the split here, but our anecdotal evidence conflicts.

The only way I'd see it play out if it was me trying to reboot the game would be to rebuild the graphics and particularly the server code from the ground up while revising a large number of game systems and mechanics to streamline it all. Middle-earth has timeless appeal. To bring players back AND bring new players in who loved the books and are now getting into PC games, you need a fresh proposition, a visually arresting and lag-free new vision of a game that got so much right in terms of narrative, quest storylines and a sense of honouring the source material.

I've taken one new-to-MMO player and one new 'somewhat familiar with MMO' player through the tutorial and into the starter areas and beyond in the last year or so. They were bewildered, and then one of the players continued to play with me and is now Level 70. Throughout he's not been aware of so many systems like skirmishes, rep barterers, half the #### in his wallet, what to do with LIs and deconning them or upgrading and assessing the value of the relics (wait till his final L100 LI, which took me to three websites and loads of questions in game to figure out how not to make very costly mistakes and earn the opprobrium of anyone I might want to fellow with in the endgame), Fellowship manoeuvres, Warhorse skills and traits, the trait tree itself and the relative value of builds vs playtype, Virtues and the importance of levelling them, the utility of completing deeds, how to access the world stable map, the whole traveller lootbox rewards and steel keys and where their barterers are, the Perks system. Explain, explain, explain, day in day out in order to save him massive amounts of time and money. For new players, there's almost nothing regarding the Tank, Heal, DPS triangle. The new player simply didn't understand tanks, and at least very early on, it's hugely important to let a player know what their class's value and its challenges are going to be later. You can't just go to the wiki and forums all the time. This might sound like I'm requiring an infantilisation of what MMOs require of players who begin them, but having developed F2P games for five years now, I've seen the uptick in retention and monetisation by helping casual players orient to your game's complexities safely and without feeling like they're stupid. It can make or break a mobile game, I don't see what's so different here, and no MMO has done it well that I'm aware of.

So I'm not saying have a much simpler game per se, merely there needs to be a streamlining that better takes a player through the increasing complexity of the game from a simpler starting point. The Instance Finder does a basic job here, but it doesn't explain at all well the choices and rewards on offer for changing difficulty or help you analyse how you might have failed.
It's LOTRO 2.0 and without generous transfer rewards, even that will fragment the player base further. And take years to do.

Given where we are now, I'd settle instead for the team focusing on rebalancing endgame character stat escalation to facilitate a meaningful progression through to fighting new fourth age foes, preferably one or both of the blue wizards, who are the only foes left on Sauron's level. That'll be determined by the licensing deal SSG have.

This is the most intelligent well written post I have ever read on this site. It gives fantastic insight as to how the gaming industry works and offers some great solutions. I am sure it will be utterly ignored by SSG but thanks for posting.

This: (The only way I'd see it play out if it was me trying to reboot the game would be to rebuild the graphics and particularly the server code from the ground up while revising a large number of game systems and mechanics to streamline it all. Middle-earth has timeless appeal. To bring players back AND bring new players in who loved the books and are now getting into PC games, you need a fresh proposition, a visually arresting and lag-free new vision of a game that got so much right in terms of narrative, quest storylines and a sense of honouring the source material.) is something I have been preaching for years. But it is clear SSG won't listen or even address it other than to say it would cost a lot of money. See my thread about a possible kick starter.

[Nelliezz]

The Rule of Turbine failed and it was given over to lesser men. I have no hope this could be pull it off. I do have hope to be proved wrong.

They managed to release the 64-bit client, isn't that rather impressive since not even Bioware is able to do so with SWTOR? I don't know what it would take to make a classic server work, but it seems like most people prefer the older expansions over the newer ones.

[SerendipityUK]

Thank you for your response and points of clarification, Daniyel.

[Daniyel]

They managed to release the 64-bit client, isn't that rather impressive since not even Bioware is able to do so with SWTOR? I don't know what it would take to make a classic server work, but it seems like most people prefer the older expansions over the newer ones.

Yes it is rather impressive. I mentioned the 64-bit client in posts 179 and 165 on this thread. It does seem the majority of players interested in a classic server are asking for content PRIOR to the Helm's Deep expansion in 2013.

[bjute]

This would be a dream come true! I miss the old classes so much, and the smooth gameplay. I think the combat was at its best in SOM, it was the time when you could interrupt auto-attacks to make the combat feel a little bit faster. But at the same time, it was slower than it currently is(in a good way). I think the current gameplay feels very spammy with no power management and superfast skills that you can just spam forever.


Just take a look at how smooth the gameplay was back then. It's hard to point out exactly what it is, but the gameplay currently feels very glitchy and is no longer beautiful to look at. I guess that is due to all the new and speed up animations, and new skills that look horrible.

[LotroVidz]

This would be a dream come true! I miss the old classes so much, and the smooth gameplay. I think the combat was at its best in SOM, it was the time when you could interrupt auto-attacks to make the combat feel a little bit faster. But at the same time, it was slower than it currently is(in a good way). I think the current gameplay feels very spammy with no power management and superfast skills that you can just spam forever.

I prefer the old combat pacing over the new one as well. It changed drastically after Helm's Deep, and even further during Gondor times. It didnt just look and feel better back then, but it allowed a more tactical combat system. It was less of a DPS race. Most skills where useful, even cjs.

But I also prefer divinity over diablo, tactical combat is just more fun than mindless dps races.

[ENDrain]

As for the 'give us an old version of LOTRO' thing - my answer is the same as always: why unfix all those bugs? You think it was perfect back then, but I remember our bug queues at the time and I can assure you it was not. Thirteen years of bug-fixes just disappearing? Yikes!

MoL

This is staggering as ever to see how much are SSG disconnected from their audience. I understand that this is just an opinion from one of the SSG members, but as far as I can tell from reading different opinions of other SSG members it is representative of the overall team's mindset.

Here's what previous hundreds of forum posts have to say on the matter:

#1

...why unfix all those bugs?

Because we^* want a F U N gaem.

#2

You think it was perfect back then,

We^* don't think. We^* know that for a fact. We^* played back then and we^* play now, and we^* can see a lot of things turn to shish. Examples? This whole damn forum has plenty if one reads it thoroughly, but niggling as I am I will list a couple here briefly:

• Trait trees. Legacy trait system enabled for unique builds tailored to each player's playstyle. Trait tree doesn't allow that, locking certain things to the primary tree selection.
• Essences. Despite feeling off with the setting - which is important with such as Middle-earth - this system could've worked if it was done properly. But instead of a tool and a toy for players it became a paywall and/or a grind for restricting/prolonging content.
• Horribly misconcepted Mordor stat squish which FUBARed the game. 3 years later we're dealing with it still. Which came as a result of mishandling essences and the whole "let's make 100 the final level, oh wait, let's not" thing.
• Imbuement had major flaws from the start, which were brought up to attention of devs, which were obviously ignored, which became a problem now, as predicted, to the point that devs mention another LI revamp on regular basis. Currently Imbued LIs are a paywall, a grind, and severely limit ability for new players/characters to join the game without amount of cash that would make honor to some mobile games.

These and many others are the reasons why we^* want to "unfix all those bugs". We^* want to play the game that allowed us to have fun with it.

#3

but I remember our bug queues at the time and I can assure you it was not.

We^* remember them too and we^* like them better, because points #1 and #2.

#4

Thirteen years of bug-fixes just disappearing? Yikes!

Past six years of updates which were gradually and predictably ruining our^* favourite game just disappearing? Hell yes!

^*Quite a number of us.

[Daniyel]

Ah, I see AK-47 has arrived =)

[CaerArianrhod]

What I wanted to suggest is that we ask them to revive an earlier version of the Lotro client.

SSG said it already many times: they can not do that.
And this is one of the rarely occasions when i believe them*

Ad *) because SSG do not have or not use any versioning system. **
Ad **) because if they would have any, it would be not possible to re-patch bugs into the game which were already fixed in an earlier patch.

[ENDrain]

Ad *) because SSG do not have or not use any versioning system. **

How exactly do you know this for sure? I can't believe any team would work on any software project without basic git these days.

Ad **) because if they would have any, it would be not possible to re-patch bugs into the game which were already fixed in an earlier patch.

With basic git you can do this literally with a couple of commands. Source code is different from patches that public receives.

[Thurallor]

*facepalm* Of course SSG uses a software revision control system. It may not be git, since the project predates git. But it's something, and they can roll back to any previous version. But as stated many times above, merely getting a previous version of the source code is a long way from making that code work in today's environment securely, reliably, and otherwise meeting players' expectations.

[Hankenstein]

lol at some people here claiming they know history of LOTRO SOM difference was vast they increased attack speed and introducted "Immediate skills" that allow quick execuption and animation cut

MOM- SOM Made combat speed so fast, yes it made it bit faster later on but ther eis a massive gap from MOM-SOM wepons did not had speed either.


This thread is pointless notthin will bear fruit

[HotStuffs]

lol at some people here claiming they know history of LOTRO SOM difference was vast they increased attack speed and introducted "Immediate skills" that allow quick execuption and animation cut

did you also know you can use these immediate skills to interrupt Steadfast Barrage?

[Rexall]

SS might be great, or they might not be. Curruption abounds around the investor that controls Daybreak games.

[LotroVidz]

SSG said it already many times: they can not do that.
And this is one of the rarely occasions when i believe them*

Ad *) because SSG do not have or not use any versioning system. **
Ad **) because if they would have any, it would be not possible to re-patch bugs into the game which were already fixed in an earlier patch.

You don't know any of this, please stop spread false information. If there are any evidence to your claims, link the source to it.

[bjute]

We^* don't think. We^* know that for a fact. We^* played back then and we^* play now, and we^* can see a lot of things turn to shish. Examples? This whole damn forum has plenty if one reads it thoroughly, but niggling as I am I will list a couple here briefly:

• Trait trees. Legacy trait system enabled for unique builds tailored to each player's playstyle. Trait tree doesn't allow that, locking certain things to the primary tree selection.
• Essences. Despite feeling off with the setting - which is important with such as Middle-earth - this system could've worked if it was done properly. But instead of a tool and a toy for players it became a paywall and/or a grind for restricting/prolonging content.
• Horribly misconcepted Mordor stat squish which FUBARed the game. 3 years later we're dealing with it still. Which came as a result of mishandling essences and the whole "let's make 100 the final level, oh wait, let's not" thing.
• Imbuement had major flaws from the start, which were brought up to attention of devs, which were obviously ignored, which became a problem now, as predicted, to the point that devs mention another LI revamp on regular basis. Currently Imbued LIs are a paywall, a grind, and severely limit ability for new players/characters to join the game without amount of cash that would make honor to some mobile games.

I think your post is spot on and agree with all of it. I have played all content from 100-130 after a long break from the game(originally joined in 2008), I took a break from 2014-2018. After this break, I have now spent about two years in the game on and off.
I have managed to complete Remmo T2, and played a lot on the legendary worlds, and feel like I'm done with the current game for now. I might check out the next expansion, but what would really bring me back would be an older game version or if they decided to return the game to its roots.

And let me touch on the dev response, its such a confusing statement.. He has been around since the beginning and can't see that the game is completely different now? I'm sorry MadeOfLions but as a player, idc about what bugs you need to fix but if it would actually be possible or why it wouldn't be. It's like blizz would be saying to wow classic players, "IDK why you want this, do you know how many bugs we need to fix?" There are 3 main reasons: 1.It's a completely different game 2.Nostalgia 3.Different features. Also as several people said, isn't there a difference in restoring SOA compared to ROI/ROR? Reading your response it seems like you didn't understand the OP's request and assumed this was another SOA thread?

Anyway here are many changes that I can think of that makes me sick of the "new Lotro", and longing for a classic version.

• The combat pace and many animations have been sped up too much, it feels glitchy, choppy and has no weight to it.
• The trait trees are a joke, ugh this is what caused me to leave in 2013/14.
• Many Classes feel less complex now than back then. (2009-2013)
• They have made tanking and healing super easy, short inductions with big heal and simplified rotation.
• The threat system and aggro management have been completely destroyed, too many force taunts, and too easy to maintain aggro. DPS can just spam, and heals can just spam. Big tactical element removed from the game.
• Power management is all gone, SSG has decided to make skills cost no power and regen very fast, another tactical element removed from the game.
• CJ's have become 100% irrelevant, another tactical element removed from the game.
• PVMP balance completely ruined thanks to freeps skill changes.
• No instances utilize CCs anymore, just massive AOE DPS spam, another tactical element removed from the game.
• Crafting was actually fun and useful, and not store dependent.
• Two new races added to the game, that just doesn't look or feel right. I think both of these new races have several poorly made animations, like high-elf running animation as an example. Bugged voices etc.
• Many changed/bugged or new animations that don't fit into the game, like coup de grace.
• Landscape content that is so easy you can just AFK kill everything.
• Simplified instance mechanics(The new MM instances are a joke, most of them use same mechanics, puddles anyone?)
• Worst itemization and gear progression I have ever seen in an MMO. SOA, MOM, SOM, ROI, and even ROR had awesome itemization and gear progression.
• Stat bloat, remember when you were happy to get a 1k crit? lol. Now you are happy to crit 1mil
• Worse quality in quests and variation(the main quests still hold up, but generally MM had too many quests asking you to do the same thing, it become a click simulator).
• T3+ system, why did you add this garbage to Lotro even though most players don't want it.

What saddens me the most is that you have ruined all previous content with the current Lotro version. I was also playing legendary worlds up to level 75, and you have really destroyed every single level cap content in older expansions.
Itemization, class changes, gear progression, landscape balance, difficulty, new bugs, etc.. These servers really made me think that an actual legacy server would have been way better as OP has suggested.

[Nelliezz]

• The combat pace and many animations have been sped up too much, it feels glitchy, choppy and has no weight to it.
• The trait trees are a joke, ugh this is what caused me to leave in 2013/14.
• Many Classes feel less complex now than back then. (2009-2013)
• They have made tanking and healing super easy, short inductions with big heal and simplified rotation.
• The threat system and aggro management have been completely destroyed, too many force taunts, and too easy to maintain aggro. DPS can just spam, and heals can just spam. Big tactical element removed from the game.
• Power management is all gone, SSG has decided to make skills cost no power and regen very fast, another tactical element removed from the game.
• CJ's have become 100% irrelevant, another tactical element removed from the game.
• PVMP balance completely ruined thanks to freeps skill changes.
• No instances utilize CCs anymore, just massive AOE DPS spam, another tactical element removed from the game.
• Crafting was actually fun and useful, and not store dependent.
• Two new races added to the game, that just doesn't look or feel right. I think both of these new races have several poorly made animations, like high-elf running animation as an example. Bugged voices etc.
• Many changed/bugged or new animations that don't fit into the game, like coup de grace.
• Landscape content that is so easy you can just AFK kill everything.
• Simplified instance mechanics(The new MM instances are a joke, most of them use same mechanics, puddles anyone?)
• Worst itemization and gear progression I have ever seen in an MMO. SOA, MOM, SOM, ROI, and even ROR had awesome itemization and gear progression.
• Stat bloat, remember when you were happy to get a 1k crit? lol. Now you are happy to crit 1mil
• Worse quality in quests and variation(the main quests still hold up, but generally MM had too many quests asking you to do the same thing, it become a click simulator).
• T3+ system, why did you add this garbage to Lotro even though most players don't want it.
• Broken itemization and gear progression that was close to non-existent back then.

To me it seems like they steered Lotro in the wrong direction after ROR. I wouldn't want to wosen/abandon any parts of the game mentioned above. Back then they had the formula to how things should have worked, but after several expansions it's now all lost in the current version of the game.

I wish they could revert many of the changes made over the years and copy things that we loved from the old days.

[Mafgaaa]

Bring back OLD LOTRO!

Why?

• Leveling was MUCH slower and more challenging especially for classes like cpt or mins.
• Difficulty overall was higher due to fact classes did little dmg, had low health and mitigations. Yet more casual friendly in terms of content, since this tier stuff is overkill.
• Combat system = realistic, weapons had speed, Axes were slowest, daggers fastest, Combat overall was much slower paced, you had time to react and improvise now everything moves so fast.
• Classic raids 1 barter item = 1 armor piece.
• Rare drops from instances and raids made you repeat them and I wasn't bored at all, because every time I would get something new, now you have upscaled loot depending on tiers..boring af.
• Rare elites roaming end game zones, always fun to search and kill them
• BEST Volumes of the epic books, it's simply outstanding, takes all across Eriador, from Bree, Shire, or Ered Luin - to the heart of Angmar. Into Moria and then Mirkwood.
• No insane LI grind
• No big battles - Good idea, decent, but I see them as an improved version of skirmishes, very easy - We needed more instances of classic raids, not that, Added more grind
• No/limited store - You can buy 90% of stuff now at the store, pretty much everything, boosts, crafting tiers, pre-bis gear, maxed out LI's, etc etc.
• No crazy unbalanced PVMP.
• No mounted combat - Total fail
• Golden Vanilla LOTRO when leveling was much challenging, lore felt richer and every class, quest, grouping, and raid made sense.
• No trait tree system
• Limited stats
• You played to earn, now you pay to get, surely its optional choice, but its a slap to face for those who work/worked hard on their characters.
• Rank made sense, no clubbing, no multi-boxing, no dual accounts
• Now you can buy every single rank.
• Way better endgame! No tier bull**** Just very good progress, dungeons had different difficulties that you could climb, instead of upscaling each monster inside.
• Instance challenges

Kickstart and I support you with 10000$ literally.

[Sjaldan]

Just to chime in one of the points. The old trait system was far better and more unique in my opinion. Switching back to that system would properly be enough upon itself for me to resub. Never a fan of the current system now, when it was implemented and can not see myself every being.

With all that want a more classic feel to game why not throw us this one bone at least SSG.

[LotroVidz]

After this latest update the longing for a true classic server have never been greater IMHO. The amount of dissatisfaction both in game and on forums is quite insane.

[Starliteyes]

You don't know any of this, please stop spread false information. If there are any evidence to your claims, link the source to it.

You are so funny. You yourself quoted Tybur as to why it couldn't be done in this thread:

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?674023

[LotroVidz]

You are so funny. You yourself quoted Tybur as to why it couldn't be done in this thread:

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?674023

Glad I could give you a good laugh. But, as many people including me have mentioned this does not confirm it's not possible, quite the opposite.

They cannot go back to an earlier build because it won't even run anymore, we get that! It is to be expected. However, she never confirmed it would not be possible if it got worked on. See the difference?

No one was expecting them to hit a switch, and we would suddenly be back to an earlier build. And from what we know this is what they attempted. The fact that they confirmed they have an earlier lotro version only confirms it would be possible if they put effort into it.(why wouldn't it be?) Again, they have NEVER confirmed it to be impossible.

Also, Lotro have MANY builds with the old trait system, 2007-2013, which version are we talking about? The response is very unclear in almost every regard.