Major Housing Bug - All BOUND items stolen

[Oddessia]

There are some SERIOUS bugs in the Rohan housing, specifically mead halls. I'll try to explain since I don't know how to post pictures.

I bought a Mead Hall for my kin. Since mead halls do not have a "kin" requirement they are counted as personal houses. So when you open the chest, 2 storage options show up. One is called SHARED STORAGE - it is your personal house chest from your standard house type. Mine happens to be a Bree house. The second option is called STORAGE - this is the mead hall's chest.

I had filled my PERSONAL Bree house chest with BOUND items only. Read that - BOUND ITEMS. Bound to me. And set permissions to NO access to anyone.

Kin members go to Mead hall, open chest and can also open the "Shared storage" which is my personal Breeland house chest. Since all items in there are bound and I had set access on that chest to 0 - I thought it was safe. They can see the stuff, but who cares - its all bound anyways.

NOPE!

Mead hall chests allow the same access to your personal storage as you set on your mead hall chest. So if you allow kin members to use "Storage" (mead hall chest) they have total access to your PERSONAL storage items (BOUND OR NOT). I get this is a feature of the "not kin house" thing. Makes sense if its a personal house. But surely if I set restrictions from the Bree house - they should apply, no?

Here's the really cruddy bit. It looks like we got robbed today, cleaned right out. Everything, gone. (I really really hope its a bug and that we didn't have a thief, and that there's another explanation.) Except whoever it was also cleaned out my personal chest completely! OF THE BOUND ITEMS!!! How is this even possible!?

It gets weirder. So when kin members open up the mead hall "storage" chest option, they have the ability to name the tabs, to be able to divide up the "chests within the chests" if that makes sense. So you can name a tab Wood, and put just wood in it, etc.
Well I went to my Bree house. You know, the one that got connected to Mead hall and then robbed through there....and the tabs in my personal Bree house chest now carry the names that the kin members put on the MEAD HALL chest! I didn't name them that, and yet somehow now my personal house chest has tab names now.

I've done some testing as have a few others and here is what we have found:

People are finding other people's decoration items in their yards.
Some tests found that while a person could not remove bound items from someone else's chest, they could delete them.
Fellowship members while in the Rohan housing show up on the map all over the place - when they are actually all standing together in the yard.
NPCs not showing up in Rohan housing, relog fixes this.

Im sure there are tons more. I am reaaaalllyy hoping that all my stuff is actually still there and its just a bug where we cant see it. However...everyone has opened that chest and none of us can see it. It seems like Rohan mead halls cannot differentiate between 2 house chests - it counts them as 1 I think? I have no idea how to explain the bound items being totally robbed....since that shouldn't be possible, period.

Im trying not to be mad, I really am. But honestly...Im kinda upset. If this is working as intended and bound items are just free-for-all now, despite restrictions set to no access and I'm just not aware of these changes, please let me know. Then I can at least chalk this up to a stupid moment on my part.

-Ods

[Laurelinarien]

This is really serious if someone was actually able to bypass the "bound-to-account" restriction.

What I can confirm is the "delete" option from both chests (premium house in particular & the shared storage - classic house in my case too). I do not know if this was already possible in the past. But me & my bf checked and there are inconsistencies.

1. His house, 3 Ridge Road, set to allow kinnies to visit rejects me. He had to add me by toon name to be able to enter. My house, 3 Peak Way, set the same way, allowed him in no problems.

2. He was able to delete a cloak, bound to me, from my shared storage in the house I mentioned above.

I've closed down all my houses now. But at this rate I can't even be sure my disabling ALL visitors will even work. It's truly unsafe.

[Nonde]

This is terrible! So sorry happened and ty both for altering the rest of us.

[TharbadThief]

I did wonder why the new house storage in my Belfalas house had its tabs named similarly to the Shared House Storage tabs, but haven't had time to pay more attention to it.

It's OK to be angry ... this seems like one of the bigger F-ups in recent memory.

[Dorothir]

So we got totally robbed today, cleaned right out. Everything, gone. Except whoever it was also cleaned out my personal chest completely! OF THE BOUND ITEMS!!! How is this even possible!?

How do you know someone took the items and they didn't just disappear as part of an unforeseen glitch?

[Once_of_Bree]

Sounds more to me like you didn't understand the how the chests permissions work/granularity.

[krypto182]

Bummer,

I would create an in-game support ticket explaining what happened. I also have a feeling they have ways of tracking item usage and who has taken what. Either way a GM does have access to a master list of every in game item ever created I believe so they could probably give you all the items that were stolen though it might take awhile.

[Herwegur]

There was a massive housing storage bug in 2013-ish when they switched from "old style" house chests to current vault-style chests. Items massively disappearing from chests and public warnings via word of mouth not to open housing storage when the update went live.

Note: "word of mouth", i.e. the bug was detected by the players while Turbine had no clue.

This week's new housing storage update involves a switch to a new storage system just like it did then. Sounds like the same/similar bug has returned.

[krypto182]

I am also completely locking down my house until a here from an official source on what is happening and if and when it will be fixed I guess I will just have to set permission on individual trusted players until it gets fixed.

[Thodorin]

.... But surely if I set restrictions from the Bree house - they should apply, no?...

The settings at Bree Haus are irrelevant. The settings of the Methall apply to both storage chests in the Methall. You cannot separate the access rights.

..Here's the really cruddy bit. So we got totally robbed today, cleaned right out. Everything, gone. Except whoever it was also cleaned out my personal chest completely! OF THE BOUND ITEMS!!! How is this even possible!?

You could check to see if you accidentally activated the option "hide items that are bound to other characters".

The function to be able to delete items bound to other characters is unfortunately important, because otherwise you would not be able to remove items from deleted or inactive characters.

[Oddessia]

How do you know someone took the items and they didn't just disappear as part of an unforeseen glitch?

I don't and I really hope you are right. I want it to to be a bug and not a theft. We had a few people join kin and leave in this same day so who knows. Also dramatic titles get blue-name attention :P I just want them to know.

Sounds more to me like you didn't understand the how the chests permissions work/granularity.

Um, I understand completely. When you set your permissions to allow NO ONE access - they shouldnt be able to access. Not sure what there is to not understand here. Also, so explain then how (even with permissions) BOUND items were removed?

There was a massive housing storage bug in 2013-ish when they switched from "old style" house chests to current vault-style chests. Items massively disappearing from chests and public warnings via word of mouth not to open housing storage when the update went live.

Note: "word of mouth", i.e. the bug was detected by the players while Turbine had no clue.

This week's new housing storage update involves a switch to a new storage system just like it did then. Sounds like the same/similar bug has returned.

Oohhh I hope its this. I really do. Or some other bug where maybe the stuff is there but we can't see it?

The settings at Bree Haus are irrelevant. The settings of the Methall apply to both storage chests in the Methall. You cannot separate the access rights.

You could check to see if you accidentally activated the option "hide items that are bound to other characters".

The function to be able to delete items bound to other characters is unfortunately important, because otherwise you would not be able to remove items from deleted or inactive characters.

Then this needs to be changed. And according to the QA person that answered my report, it does matter because they can see my Bree house permissions set to no access. Still doesn't explain the bound items disappearing. Thats the whole reason I filled that chest with bound items, just in case the mead hall permissions overrode them. Im okay with that if they did, but no one should be able to remove bound items, PERIOD. I even tried removing bound items on my own alt and couldn't...so how could someone else?
As well there are people that have deleted characters with bound items in storage and now report being stuck with those items permanently because they can't delete them, so something is not working properly.

I double checked the "hide items bound to others" button, its not checked. I also ported to the Bree house on the character that the items are bound to....its empty.

So I suppose another possibility is (if it was someone) they cleaned out kin chest, couldnt remove the bound items from personal chest so in spite - deleted them? First off that makes me sick to my stomach to think that someone would do that, I mean WHY. Second off....seems like a pretty big hole in how chests are designed. Should be only another alt from that account that is able to delete. I dont know...ugh, I just hope its resolved.

[Hephburz-2]

Because of the binding restrictions, it is more likely someone has deleted your items either as a joke or out of spite (as you confirmed from your own testing other people could delete the items). You realistically should be able to recover all of these items with an ingame ticket as GMs are able to track specific item history, so can see what the last thing that happened to the item was, if my assumption is correct which I believe it is, these items can be returned.

[Oddessia]

Because of the binding restrictions, it is more likely someone has deleted your items either as a joke or out of spite (as you confirmed from your own testing other people could delete the items). You realistically should be able to recover all of these items with an ingame ticket as GMs are able to track specific item history, so can see what the last thing that happened to the item was, if my assumption is correct which I believe it is, these items can be returned.

Thank you thank you, I hope you're right!

Talking with QA has revealed one unbelievable fact that I hope is changed: Rohan house chest permissions override other house chest permissions ON PURPOSE. To me this is a glaring design hole, as it completely eliminates kins from being able to use a Mead Hall as a kin chest depot, without also opening up all the mead hall owner's attached additional housing from whichever other house they own. Seems Thodorin is right.

Its looking like this might be a very unfortunate situation on my part and a hard lesson to swallow. Nothing about this was stated in BETA or notes, and IMO is a terrible design. Just because I allow kinship access to my mead hall chest, that should not blanket-allow them access to my personal chest. And yet it does.

So people out there using Mead Halls as kin halls, watch out! Your personal storage can be accessed by all members, even if you have permissions set to none on your other house.

So this brings me to another question. The account I purchased the Mead Hall on is a Premium Account. According to Wiki Prem accounts do NOT get in game ticket access, past 30 days of an LP purchase. No LP purchases have been made on this premium account in years...so although the game allowed me to submit an in-game ticket...does it even go through? Is it read? Or am I just totally effing effed. Argh, Im frustrated

Ods

[Starsmith]

Talking with QA has revealed one unbelievable fact that I hope is changed: Rohan house chest permissions override other house chest permissions ON PURPOSE. To me this is a glaring design hole, as it completely eliminates kins from being able to use a Mead Hall as a kin chest depot, without also opening up all the mead hall owner's attached additional housing from whichever other house they own. Seems Thodorin is right.

It...makes some sense that the shared chest has its permissions set by the most permissive house it exists in, but there really ought to be a way to separate the per-house storage permissions from the shared chest.

[Hephburz-2]

You will eventually get a response but you will be rather low on priority in comparison to a VIP unfortunately.

[Oddessia]

You will eventually get a response but you will be rather low on priority in comparison to a VIP unfortunately.

Okay, thank you. The annoying thing is, I am a VIP lol, have been for nearly a decade. I just happened to use that one premium account I also have for this purchase cause it had a lot of LP stored on it. Le sigh. Its just not Odi's day I guess. Thanks for your help

-Ods

[jevvy]

Has this ever been fixed? Not sure I want to buy a Mead Hall if items can be taken from personal vault..

[Arnenna]

Because of the binding restrictions, it is more likely someone has deleted your items either as a joke or out of spite (as you confirmed from your own testing other people could delete the items). You realistically should be able to recover all of these items with an ingame ticket as GMs are able to track specific item history, so can see what the last thing that happened to the item was, if my assumption is correct which I believe it is, these items can be returned.

Is it possible to actually "delete" items though. Maybe I'm wrong as I haven't got rid of anything in a house for a very long time, but iirc, isn't the option "return to owner", rather than "delete"?

[LabadalofDorlomin]

Has this ever been fixed? Not sure I want to buy a Mead Hall if items can be taken from personal vault..

I'm guessing it must have otherwise we would have heard more about it but I'm guessing this is how there seemed to be trading of bound to account items was happening last year... again it must have been fixed otherwise we would be mid gold seller land again by now...

If anyone with a Mead hall can confirm it would be nice for newly prospecting homeowners....

[Oddessia]

Has this ever been fixed? Not sure I want to buy a Mead Hall if items can be taken from personal vault..

Nothing was fixed because it turns out it's "working as intended." Nothing was stolen - it was in fact deleted. Out of the house chest itself. I'll elaborate below.

Is it possible to actually "delete" items though. Maybe I'm wrong as I haven't got rid of anything in a house for a very long time, but iirc, isn't the option "return to owner", rather than "delete"?

Yep! Its possible.

Alright so - can someone steal your housing items from Mead Halls? No.
Can someone delete items out of your housing chest, bound or not? Yes.

To clarify: When you purchase a Mead Hall, IF you also own a regular house (shire/Ered/Thorins/Bree), you will have 2 storage options when you open your Mead Hall chest. One is the mead hall's storage, and one is your regular house's storage.
This means that anyone that has permissions to access your Mead Hall chest, ALSO has those same permissions for your personal, private house. Meaning, they can wipe clean your Shire house chest, through your Mead Hall chest.
"Well I'll just place only bound items in my chests then!" - Unfortunately, this doesn't matter. That is exactly what I did, no one can remove bound items after all. And that still holds true. They cannot remove the items and place them in their bags. They CAN straight up delete them though. So it would be a spiteful person indeed that would go through one's chest, and one-by-one click and delete all their items.

Now of course this all hinges on permissions. If no one has permission to open your chest, then you're all safe its fine. Where the bad part came in, is many people (myself included) wanted to use the Mead Halls as Kin houses. I mean, who wouldnt!? They're huge! Unfortunately while marketed as a cool kin house option, you can't really use it as that unless you deny all members chest access. So it would be a cool meeting place but with no communal storage.

Regular kin houses (shire/ered etc) have permission options that let you set permissions by kin role. For example: Recruits do not have chest access, members do. Or only officers. Like that. Mead halls DO NOT have this option. You either give everyone access, or no one.

I requested to have permissions added to these mead halls so that we could use them for kin houses, alas...its basically item # 9,999,999,998 on the list of things that need doing. It'll never happen.

TL;DR Dont use a meadhall as a kin house, you cant regulate chest access based on rank. Its everyone or no one. Your main house can be accessed through mead hall chest also.

Hope that helps!

-Ods

[jevvy]

Thank you Oddessia.. so basically you cannot buy a kin house in Rohan

Nothing was fixed because it turns out it's "working as intended." Nothing was stolen - it was in fact deleted. Out of the house chest itself. I'll elaborate below.



Yep! Its possible.

Alright so - can someone steal your housing items from Mead Halls? No.
Can someone delete items out of your housing chest, bound or not? Yes.

To clarify: When you purchase a Mead Hall, IF you also own a regular house (shire/Ered/Thorins/Bree), you will have 2 storage options when you open your Mead Hall chest. One is the mead hall's storage, and one is your regular house's storage.
This means that anyone that has permissions to access your Mead Hall chest, ALSO has those same permissions for your personal, private house. Meaning, they can wipe clean your Shire house chest, through your Mead Hall chest.
"Well I'll just place only bound items in my chests then!" - Unfortunately, this doesn't matter. That is exactly what I did, no one can remove bound items after all. And that still holds true. They cannot remove the items and place them in their bags. They CAN straight up delete them though. So it would be a spiteful person indeed that would go through one's chest, and one-by-one click and delete all their items.

Now of course this all hinges on permissions. If no one has permission to open your chest, then you're all safe its fine. Where the bad part came in, is many people (myself included) wanted to use the Mead Halls as Kin houses. I mean, who wouldnt!? They're huge! Unfortunately while marketed as a cool kin house option, you can't really use it as that unless you deny all members chest access. So it would be a cool meeting place but with no communal storage.

Regular kin houses (shire/ered etc) have permission options that let you set permissions by kin role. For example: Recruits do not have chest access, members do. Or only officers. Like that. Mead halls DO NOT have this option. You either give everyone access, or no one.

I requested to have permissions added to these mead halls so that we could use them for kin houses, alas...its basically item # 9,999,999,998 on the list of things that need doing. It'll never happen.

TL;DR Dont use a meadhall as a kin house, you cant regulate chest access based on rank. Its everyone or no one. Your main house can be accessed through mead hall chest also.

Hope that helps!

-Ods