Let's talk: Break Ranks

[zaboch]

So, where to start with this....well, tooltip I guess.



Couple of notes:

• You have to end up with 5 Fortification stacks before the skill goes out to apply this effect.
• 40% damage buff is a mastery-based damage buff. (If you're at 200% mastery damage, this will put you at 240%)
• Cooldown cannot be reduced by any measure.
• Casting Shield-Taunt before you gain 5 stacks will not activate the skill. However, casting it at 3 stacks, getting a crit with Shield-taunt (yes, it counts as a non-damaging hit that can critically strike) puts you at 5, which immediately activates the skill.
• Similarly, casting it at 5 stacks and activating the hit will wipe all Fortification stacks from the Guardian, however, if Shied-taunt scores a critical hit (or Shield The People proc's), you will gain back either 1 (on normal 50% chance proc) or two (on a crit proc)
• While not displayed in the tooltips, the range is an AOE circle, centered on the Guardian, with a 20m radius.
• Affects every ally, doesn't have a max target set nor fellowship restrictions. Ally doesn't have to be in combat either.

Now, the fun stuff:
IF YOU USE LITANY OF DEFIANCE AT 5 STACKS TO CASH IT OUT AND FOLLOW UP WITH SHIELD-TAUNT, YOU WILL GAIN THE BREAK RANKS BUFF WITHOUT HAVING ANY FORTIFICATION STACKS
This needs immediate addressing, as this bug was not present during BR testing. Litany Of Defiance allows a Guardian to gain a large amount of mitigations and, provided other people aren't hit (due to damage redirection effect bypassing a portion of mitigations bug, but that's for another day), you can easily gain 92% physical mitigation. Oh, and the whole "free Break Ranks" thing is kinda bad too.

[Joedangod]

due to damage redirection effect bypassing a portion of mitigations bug

There a new bug with that?

WAI in this scenario is damage redirect effects only take the "redirectee"s mitigation into account. As far as I'm aware that's occurring correctly for Litany.

[zaboch]

"redirectee"s

Not entire sure where the damage link is, but Guardian is taking way more damage than he actually "absorbs" (from the stated 50%). Currently can best be seen in Stairs at T4 on right-side boss.

[Krindel]

• While not displayed in the tooltips, the range is an AOE circle, centered on the Guardian, with a 20m radius.

Area effects in this game are squares. If skill radius is 20m, I have question for designers. Are sides of this square 40m or 28,284m long?

[Joedangod]

Area effects in this game are squares. If skill radius is 20m, I have question for designers. Are sides of this square 40m or 28,284m long?

*Ground targeted area effects are squares.

I don't think this rule applies to effects that are centred on a player i.e. I don't think Captain auras function as a square.

[Krindel]

*Ground targeted area effects are squares.

I don't think this rule applies to effects that are centred on a player i.e. I don't think Captain auras function as a square.

I am sorry for off topic.
Aura buffs are square too, it is how game engine works. If buff has radius of 20m, then it can apply its effect to someone with distance up to 28m, if that target is positioned on the vertex of the square. Side of the square is 40m of course.

[Marxlne]

Break Ranks buff area definitely isn't square.

[zaboch]

Just tested, it's a circle centered on the Guardian.

Had 3 friends stay at different lengths and angles from the Guardian. One was behind at 20m, one was at a 45 degree right angle at 20m and another at the 45 degree left angle 22m.
Behind and right angle were affected by Break Ranks, the one on the left wasn't.



I'm aware it's very crude, but it illustrates the point

[Krindel]

I believe you and I am surprised that buffs in this game are not consistent, effects which I have tested definitively cover square area. Does anyone tested Captain buffs like Motivating speech?

[zaboch]

I believe you and I am surprised that buffs in this game are not consistent, effects which I have tested definitively cover square area. Does anyone tested Captain buffs like Motivating speech?

Yes, was about to write, it is also a circle, however, there are inconsistencies.
On the tooltip, it is stated that aura is 20m range, which is false. It is 29m to activate and it doesn't break till Captain is 30m away from the target.
It is also a circle, tested via issuing a "Stay" command on the herald, moving to uttermost range and holding a strafe key to go only on one side. It quickly fell off the herald cause I was more than 30m away the moment I started moving.

[Krindel]

Yes, was about to write, it is also a circle, however, there are inconsistencies.
On the tooltip, it is stated that aura is 20m range, which is false. It is 29m to activate and it doesn't break till Captain is 30m away from the target.
It is also a circle, tested via issuing a "Stay" command on the herald, moving to uttermost range and holding a strafe key to go only on one side. It quickly fell off the herald cause I was more than 30m away the moment I started moving.

That is odd, my testing with captain and herald proved, that motivation, idome, banner of hope have all square area effect 40x40m. I have done testing with LM eagle, and eagle's nobility buff is square too. But square has always same orientation, centered to geographic coordinates, no matter which direction you are facing.

[zaboch]

That is odd, my testing with captain and herald proved, that motivation, idome, banner of hope have all square area effect 40x40m. I have done testing with LM eagle, and eagle's nobility buff is square too. But square has always same orientation, centered to geographic coordinates, no matter which direction you are facing.

Look into your testing method then

[Joedangod]

Not sure Krindel is wrong here. I also tested Motivating Speech earlier by having my Cappy fellowed with another player. The second player started 20m from the Captain and had Motivating Speech active, when I took a step away on that character to be 21m from the Captain it dropped motivating speech. I then proceeded to attempt to circle the Captain with the second character, in some places I was able to reach up to 27m from the Captain without dropping Motivating Speech.

Motivating Speech does appear to be a square area.

[Krindel]

Look into your testing method then

Yes I did take a look at my testing method and it is right. I think your testing with Herald confirmed too, that Motivating speech has square area of effect. As I said, square has always axis oriented with vectors from North to South and from West to East, square orientation is not set by your rotation, it is fixed.

If your possition during testing was similar to position on image, then 29m wasn't radius of skill, but it was one half of square diagonal and Herald was on vertex of the square with radius of 20m. With this position, every movement left or right caused, that Herald lost motivation buff.
If you want to test by yourself, then be sure, that conecting line between you and your target is parallel with cardinal directions. Then when distance between you and your target will be 20m and you move perpendicularly 20m to the left or right, your target will be still on the opposite side of the square, but when you move 1m back, target will immediately lose buff. And on the furthest point left or right, distance between you and your target will be 28, maybe 29m (diagonal/2).

[Joedangod]

Ha Krindel beat me to it, regardless to add another example of what could have gone wrong with your test Zaboch:

On further examination I'm not sure your testing was valid unless you tried several different rotations. If you only did that one test it would be invalid as you don't know the orientation of the square.

The above is another rough illustration but with all lines to scale and angles matching those you stated for your test. The blue line is 10% longer than the green lines and each line is 45 degrees from one another to match your example. With this particular rotation applied the 22m line would be outside of the square but if you rotated the square another 12 degrees clockwise all 3 points would be inside the square. It could be that you simply wound up in the former formation rather than the latter:

[zaboch]

Weird, I'll recheck my findings on Break Ranks then.

[HolyDuckTape]

20m range on break ranks is a crime bruh

[zaboch]

Break Ranks is a circle.

I've arranged 5 players in a crescent, with the crescent peak being at 21m away from me. Done 6 tests in total.

1) Facing the crescent peak. Result in drawing.
2) Turning left 45 degrees. Result in drawing.
3) Turning left another 45 degrees. Result in drawing.
4) Changed position, now facing crescent top, 21m distance. Top wasn't affected.
5) Rotated left 45 degrees. Top wasn't affected.
6) Rotated left another 45 degrees. Top wasn't affected.



Unless there's another way I could've done it (open to suggestions), I'm willing to bet it's a circle. In conclusion, everyone <20m is affected.

Yes, drawings are crude and meh, but they're just here to illustrate a point, not be a precise measurement.

[zaboch]

As for IDOME/Motivating Speech, it is in fact a square. All measurements done in game and confirmed via quik maffs.

[Joedangod]

Correct way is probably have people line up in 5m intervals directly East of you. (Ideally sit yourself in the corner of one wall going North and one going East to guarantee perfect angles.)

Take the distance of the furthest player who receives the break ranks buff, this distance is either the radius (if a circle) or half the length of one side of the square away from you (since squares are drawn parallel to the compass).

We shall call that distance X. We are kinda making an assumption that X is a multiple of 5 here so probably worth throwing in an extra test where you have someone stand 1m further East than the guy at X just to confirm that they don't get the buff.

Once you have X, position player A north of you by X metres and player B East of you by X metres. The third player should stand directly between players A and B. Once they are directly between they should move directly away from you until they are standing at X+1 from you (but remain equidistant from players A and B). Now use Break Ranks. If all 3 players receive Break ranks you have a square, if only A and B receive it you have a circle.

[zaboch]

That's what I was hoping to do with a crescent, as I had more available manpower than usual. Re-testing.

[Joedangod]

That's what I was hoping to do with a crescent, as I had more available manpower than usual. Re-testing.

Yeah, crescent feels dodgy to me as you didn't list the exact distances of each involved. So long as you keep the third player at the same distance from both A and B and keep them at X+1 from yourself you should be good. The compass direction part is the most important to note however. Make sure they are standing East, North and North East of you.

[zaboch]

Redone the tests exactly as this schematic shows. X+1 distance was around 24m (just to be sure).
The player standing diagonally wasn't affected by Break Ranks.
Done a few variations too, where we'd turn and rotate, still the same result.

It is a circle.