Bullroarer Update 28.3 - Preview #1 - CLOSED

[ZepherZane]

actually, if they took and did no changes to any of the content and actually did bug fixes for the next update instead of ruining things that don't need to be messed with and fixed actual things that need to be changed aka the random invisible walls in places that don't need them or fixing the li's having to click a billion scrolls to max them out how about instead of making the content harder how about making it easier to use my mouse almost gets warn out every time I max a li to where it is needed to be for raid instead of modifying the scrolls we have that work fine how about adding a barter that allows for a trade of 10 normal scrolls for 10 levels at a time scroll for are li's? and doing what we have to do to just collect them to be able to use them is bad enough your making it worse with these changes and the ones that you have offered this is still bad because now we have to collect more types of items to level up are li's without wasting any type of li scroll which means more wasted space can't you just stop wasting inventory space we need all we can get of it.

and as far as guardians are concerned the whole class needs to be rebuilt because of how bad it has been destroyed it does not need a little love it needs a lot of love and made to be useful as it was before the trait trees were added (not saying trait trees are bad) it was just when all guardians started becoming weak then the changes of stats for the class did not help either and everything for guardians have just gone downhill since the trait trees were added some players that used to play guardians say that the developers must have been angry with the class some have jokingly said it must have rapped a family member or killed someones son of a dev because they kept making it worse and worse for the guardian it literally is considered by most players as the most dev hatted class in the game.

[Arnenna]

Current situation on SoE grind via landscape.

One Alt

DA daily = 1 SoE per day
DA warbands = how ever many SoE's can be obtained via Amroth silver pieces dropped on the run.
MT dailies = 7 SoE per day
East Gondor Dailies - 3 SoE per day

New proposed changes

Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Dol Amroth Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 44 (since this content predates imbuement).

You may as well just scrap this content. Imbuement starts at level 100, and this barter NPC is very much in a level 100 cap region. Once region is finished, the only way to earn Amroth Silver pieces is via the war bands. Nobody will run these for scrolls that are no good.

Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Rangers of Ithilien Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 59.
Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from Narnaith in Minas Tirith will cap at max-tier 59.
Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 59 will be added to daily and weekly quests on the Quartermaster (Host of the West).

So plenty of options for scrolls to max tier 59, because, earning potential stays the same.

Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 69 will be added to the Restoring the Three Kingdoms quest in Northern Mirkwood.
Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 79 will be added to the Protecting the Beornings, Elves, & Woodmen quests in Vales of Anduin.

Here is where it all starts to fall over. These are WEEKLY quest wrappers - not dailies. This is very much weekly earning, not daily like in MT. Not to mention the massive grind involved in opening up each of these weekly wrappers in the first place. To make these wrappers be equal to what a character can earn currently, just by running MT dailies alone, these wrappers would have to award a combined total of 45 SoEs. Or those wrappers need to be turned into Daily wrappers. Anything less - is a nerf and cannot be disguised as anything else.

The quest "March on Gundabad: Additional Steps (Daily)" will award 2 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83. - so 2 scrolls a day, that's 5 less then MT - so a nerf.
The quest "The War Effort: Threats to the Battlefield" will award 3 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83. - so 3 scrolls a week

This gives a total of 17 scrolls per week, compared to 49 scrolls per week for currently running MT daily every day.

Guys, this is not in any way fixing or even trying to look like fixing - the LI situation that you already know, is killing the game for many players. Players have waited far too long and been way too patient, for this to be the result. Just take a look at those numbers! This is still a GIANT nerf to current SoE acquisition. You have already lost lots of players over this grind. Rolling this out will just lose more.

[ZepherZane]

Current situation on SoE grind via landscape.

One Alt

DA daily = 1 SoE per day
DA warbands = how ever many SoE's can be obtained via Amroth silver pieces dropped on the run.
MT dailies = 7 SoE per day
East Gondor Dailies - 3 SoE per day

New proposed changes

Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Dol Amroth Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 44 (since this content predates imbuement).

You may as well just scrap this content. Imbuement starts at level 100, and this barter NPC is very much in a level 100 cap region. Once region is finished, the only way to earn Amroth Silver pieces is via the war bands. Nobody will run these for scrolls that are no good.

Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Rangers of Ithilien Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 59.
Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from Narnaith in Minas Tirith will cap at max-tier 59.
Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 59 will be added to daily and weekly quests on the Quartermaster (Host of the West).

So plenty of options for scrolls to max tier 59, because, earning potential stays the same.

Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 69 will be added to the Restoring the Three Kingdoms quest in Northern Mirkwood.
Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 79 will be added to the Protecting the Beornings, Elves, & Woodmen quests in Vales of Anduin.

Here is where it all starts to fall over. These are WEEKLY quest wrappers - not dailies. This is very much weekly earning, not daily like in MT. Not to mention the massive grind involved in opening up each of these weekly wrappers in the first place. To make these wrappers be equal to what a character can earn currently, just by running MT dailies alone, these wrappers would have to award 20 SoEs. Or those wrappers need to be turned into Daily wrappers. Anything less - is a nerf and cannot be disguised as anything else.

The quest "March on Gundabad: Additional Steps (Daily)" will award 2 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83. - so 2 scrolls a day, that's 5 less then MT - so a nerf.
The quest "The War Effort: Threats to the Battlefield" will award 3 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83. - so 3 scrolls a week

This gives a total of 17 scrolls per week, compared to 49 scrolls per week for currently running MT daily every day.

Guys, this is not in any way fixing or even trying to look like fixing - the LI situation that you already know, is killing the game for many players. Players have waited far too long and been way too patient, for this to be the result. Just take a look at those numbers! This is still a GIANT nerf to current SoE acquisition. You have already lost lots of players over this grind. Rolling this out will just lose more.

I very much agree

[bolander89]

I've played this game since release and paying for vip since the game was changed to free-2-play on and off to support a game that I love. But the grinding for scrolls has been ridiculus for a long time. Since MT dailies is the most efficient way to grind scrolls, atleast with multiple characters it is the way to go. I would gladely have more characters in the game, but the tedious upcoming grind for both scrolls and crystals make that a no-go when working a fulltime job.

I only have 3 characters at level 130, but you should atleast make the system for the scrolls BETTER, not the opposite since you refuse to come up with a decent revamp of it. How about you start listening to players that actually make it possible for you at SSG to have a salary? That's not too much to ask for is it? Majority of your player base is loyal, maby to a point of stupidity. I'm in the EU, with a 130+ ping for starters, the ancient and out-dated game engine made Minas morgul horrible and unplayable at certain times of the day but I still went on paying the monthly subscription. Stupidity? Yes...

I can asure you that if you go through with this part with the scrolls I will for sure cancel my subscription and I will not spend a dime of real money in the game, mark my words. You'll be glad that I start the game at all. Or do you have so many players in the game that you feel the need to cut the loyal ones off? This update will make sure of that.

[wispsong]

I've played this game since release and paying for vip since the game was changed to free-2-play on and off to support a game that I love. But the grinding for scrolls has been ridiculus for a long time. Since MT dailies is the most efficient way to grind scrolls, atleast with multiple characters it is the way to go. I would gladely have more characters in the game, but the tedious upcoming grind for both scrolls and crystals make that a no-go when working a fulltime job.

I only have 3 characters at level 130, but you should atleast make the system for the scrolls BETTER, not the opposite since you refuse to come up with a decent revamp of it. How about you start listening to players that actually make it possible for you at SSG to have a salary? That's not too much to ask for is it? Majority of your player base is loyal, maby to a point of stupidity. I'm in the EU, with a 130+ ping for starters, the ancient and out-dated game engine made Minas morgul horrible and unplayable at certain times of the day but I still went on paying the monthly subscription. Stupidity? Yes...

I can asure you that if you go through with this part with the scrolls I will for sure cancel my subscription and I will not spend a dime of real money in the game, mark my words. You'll be glad that I start the game at all. Or do you have so many players in the game that you feel the need to cut the loyal ones off? This update will make sure of that.

This is what I fear as well. The tiering is not the problem but the lack of scrolls given out. And to basically tell every player they now need to play cap game every time they finish a region to keep up with this insane grind or stop right there is a very, very bad decision. There is a reason players go back to finish deeds and this insane grind ... it takes to long on level. And no matter what you use to buy scrolls right now, it requires currency from region end game because just questing through is not enough or the currency changes. Embers and motes also fall into this category. If this tiering is not accompanied by a tremendous increase in scroll rewards this will be a disaster unless you are willing to do without. And that can become frustrating
as well because these legacies add to dps.

A new character plays through the story, maybe tries the dailies but will continue as fast as possible. There shouldn't even be a reason to stay in a completed zone that is no longer cap although no rewards should be removed, they should just not be necessary to continue. And everything in this game as far as I can recall follows that except the ILI. The scrolls we can buy for motes should have been free levels so a character can naturally quest through to cap where the last scrolls can be earned through end game. And than tiering makes sense. But to this day SSG has refused to give viable options for replacement for every class or actually have the ILI grow with us to previous cap. And the only reason I can see for this is the store. But even the biggest buyers will eventually stop buying and this might have happened. It's a vicious circle that in the end will destroy the game.

[wrath247]

Current situation on SoE grind via landscape.

One Alt

DA daily = 1 SoE per day
DA warbands = how ever many SoE's can be obtained via Amroth silver pieces dropped on the run.
MT dailies = 7 SoE per day
East Gondor Dailies - 3 SoE per day

New proposed changes

Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Dol Amroth Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 44 (since this content predates imbuement).

You may as well just scrap this content. Imbuement starts at level 100, and this barter NPC is very much in a level 100 cap region. Once region is finished, the only way to earn Amroth Silver pieces is via the war bands. Nobody will run these for scrolls that are no good.

Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Rangers of Ithilien Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 59.
Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from Narnaith in Minas Tirith will cap at max-tier 59.
Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 59 will be added to daily and weekly quests on the Quartermaster (Host of the West).

So plenty of options for scrolls to max tier 59, because, earning potential stays the same.

Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 69 will be added to the Restoring the Three Kingdoms quest in Northern Mirkwood.
Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 79 will be added to the Protecting the Beornings, Elves, & Woodmen quests in Vales of Anduin.

Here is where it all starts to fall over. These are WEEKLY quest wrappers - not dailies. This is very much weekly earning, not daily like in MT. Not to mention the massive grind involved in opening up each of these weekly wrappers in the first place. To make these wrappers be equal to what a character can earn currently, just by running MT dailies alone, these wrappers would have to award a combined total of 45 SoEs. Or those wrappers need to be turned into Daily wrappers. Anything less - is a nerf and cannot be disguised as anything else.

The quest "March on Gundabad: Additional Steps (Daily)" will award 2 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83. - so 2 scrolls a day, that's 5 less then MT - so a nerf.
The quest "The War Effort: Threats to the Battlefield" will award 3 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83. - so 3 scrolls a week

This gives a total of 17 scrolls per week, compared to 49 scrolls per week for currently running MT daily every day.

Guys, this is not in any way fixing or even trying to look like fixing - the LI situation that you already know, is killing the game for many players. Players have waited far too long and been way too patient, for this to be the result. Just take a look at those numbers! This is still a GIANT nerf to current SoE acquisition. You have already lost lots of players over this grind. Rolling this out will just lose more.

They need to make all of them dailies. And allow you to barter the elves, beorning and woodsmen tokens for SOEs.

Ideally when you get an update, you improve the player experience. Not give them a proverbial middle-finger and I'm sorry to say this but it really feels like that.

The new sources are nice, at least adds some diversity so it might not come across as tedious at least from an activity pov but why reduce the overall amount we gain in a day much less a week.

Honestly it's better to: Increase the amount of SOEs earnable lessening the grind to a few day, less than a week for 1 ILI and add more diversity to player freedom.

NOT: Lessen the earnable amount of overall SOEs.

This is a blatant disregard of game design. It doesn't matter if you say: oh well instances, really?? Like really? Motes and Embers yes but that requires grp content and doesn't always appeal to everyone.

FOCUS ON: Player choice and freedom. That's the basis of every Modern MMO decision today. MODERNIZE. UPDATE. Cos this feels like an update you'd see from some archaic game back in the 2000s.

No matter the intent the definitive feedback is obvious. I can agree to the changes ONLY IF the overall gains are better or equivalent to the latter. Preferably better since you don't want to tire out 100% of your playerbase on grinds.

Take it from someone who plays other MMOs and games from this generation, a game with so much grind for little gain looses new and old players especially since we already monetize so many things as is and force ppl down that route WOTP style.

Here's a good review of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3CQJU78zZA

[Moondog548]

Current situation on SoE grind via landscape.

One Alt

DA daily = 1 SoE per day
DA warbands = how ever many SoE's can be obtained via Amroth silver pieces dropped on the run.
MT dailies = 7 SoE per day
East Gondor Dailies - 3 SoE per day

New proposed changes

Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Dol Amroth Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 44 (since this content predates imbuement).

You may as well just scrap this content. Imbuement starts at level 100, and this barter NPC is very much in a level 100 cap region. Once region is finished, the only way to earn Amroth Silver pieces is via the war bands. Nobody will run these for scrolls that are no good.

Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Rangers of Ithilien Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 59.
Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from Narnaith in Minas Tirith will cap at max-tier 59.
Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 59 will be added to daily and weekly quests on the Quartermaster (Host of the West).

So plenty of options for scrolls to max tier 59, because, earning potential stays the same.

Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 69 will be added to the Restoring the Three Kingdoms quest in Northern Mirkwood.
Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 79 will be added to the Protecting the Beornings, Elves, & Woodmen quests in Vales of Anduin.

Here is where it all starts to fall over. These are WEEKLY quest wrappers - not dailies. This is very much weekly earning, not daily like in MT. Not to mention the massive grind involved in opening up each of these weekly wrappers in the first place. To make these wrappers be equal to what a character can earn currently, just by running MT dailies alone, these wrappers would have to award a combined total of 45 SoEs. Or those wrappers need to be turned into Daily wrappers. Anything less - is a nerf and cannot be disguised as anything else.

The quest "March on Gundabad: Additional Steps (Daily)" will award 2 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83. - so 2 scrolls a day, that's 5 less then MT - so a nerf.
The quest "The War Effort: Threats to the Battlefield" will award 3 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83. - so 3 scrolls a week

This gives a total of 17 scrolls per week, compared to 49 scrolls per week for currently running MT daily every day.

Guys, this is not in any way fixing or even trying to look like fixing - the LI situation that you already know, is killing the game for many players. Players have waited far too long and been way too patient, for this to be the result. Just take a look at those numbers! This is still a GIANT nerf to current SoE acquisition. You have already lost lots of players over this grind. Rolling this out will just lose more.

Great breakdown. Thanks for that.

[wispsong]

They need to make all of them dailies. And allow you to barter the elves, beorning and woodsmen tokens for SOEs.

Ideally when you get an update, you improve the player experience. Not give them a proverbial middle-finger and I'm sorry to say this but it really feels like that.

The new sources are nice, at least adds some diversity so it might not come across as tedious at least from an activity pov but why reduce the overall amount we gain in a day much less a week.

Honestly it's better to: Increase the amount of SOEs earnable lessening the grind to a few day, less than a week for 1 ILI and add more diversity to player freedom.

NOT: Lessen the earnable amount of overall SOEs.

This is a blatant disregard of game design. It doesn't matter if you say: oh well instances, really?? Like really? Motes and Embers yes but that requires grp content and doesn't always appeal to everyone.

FOCUS ON: Player choice and freedom. That's the basis of every Modern MMO decision today. MODERNIZE. UPDATE. Cos this feels like an update you'd see from some archaic game back in the 2000s.

No matter the intent the definitive feedback is obvious. I can agree to the changes ONLY IF the overall gains are better or equivalent to the latter. Preferably better since you don't want to tire out 100% of your playerbase on grinds.

Take it from someone who plays other MMOs and games from this generation, a game with so much grind for little gain looses new and old players especially since we already monetize so many things as is and force ppl down that route WOTP style.

Here's a good review of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3CQJU78zZA

Having SoEs only avaiable through grind in region cap game is not the answer for new characters though. Although an addition to all dailies and an increase in the amount that can be earned would be very much appreciated. The problem though is that new characters are not made to stay in place and grind everything their mains already did. And new players questing just through to cap not completely understanding the 'Need to Feed" the ILI are disadvantaged as well.

The tiering makes sense but holding players back in every region to grind on level before they can continue does not. There is a reason why capped players go back to MT, it's easier and faster not only to kill mobs below level but just focus on the objectives. And if you have a lot of players playing the same cap game it becomes even worse. It makes more sense as you said to lessen the amount needed and increase the SoE rewards. The best way to make the tiering palatable and acceptable by players would be to give them as landscape quest rewards. If you quest through these regions you get all the scrolls you need, if you don't do all you have the option to get them at region cap.

It still is beyond me how 2 items can hinder players to normally progress their characters. I personally prefer normal weapons which are replaced every so often. Even the LI gave a reset with level increase. To catch up on years of advantage of players who were here when this mess started and managed to stay on top is punishing to new characters.

[Moondog548]

So I was optimistic that this new plan was a slight improvement, but it feels like we're actually slightly worse off instead of drastically worse off.

Another player doing a great job breaking it down:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3CQJU78zZA

[Arnenna]

So I was optimistic that this new plan was a slight improvement, but it feels like we're actually slightly worse off instead of drastically worse off.

Another player doing a great job breaking it down:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3CQJU78zZA

We're still drastically worse off, just slightly less drastically worse off.

[Arnenna]

This is what I fear as well. The tiering is not the problem but the lack of scrolls given out. And to basically tell every player they now need to play cap game every time they finish a region to keep up with this insane grind or stop right there is a very, very bad decision. There is a reason players go back to finish deeds and this insane grind ... it takes to long on level. And no matter what you use to buy scrolls right now, it requires currency from region end game because just questing through is not enough or the currency changes. Embers and motes also fall into this category. If this tiering is not accompanied by a tremendous increase in scroll rewards this will be a disaster unless you are willing to do without. And that can become frustrating
as well because these legacies add to dps.

A new character plays through the story, maybe tries the dailies but will continue as fast as possible. There shouldn't even be a reason to stay in a completed zone that is no longer cap although no rewards should be removed, they should just not be necessary to continue. And everything in this game as far as I can recall follows that except the ILI. The scrolls we can buy for motes should have been free levels so a character can naturally quest through to cap where the last scrolls can be earned through end game. And than tiering makes sense. But to this day SSG has refused to give viable options for replacement for every class or actually have the ILI grow with us to previous cap. And the only reason I can see for this is the store. But even the biggest buyers will eventually stop buying and this might have happened. It's a vicious circle that in the end will destroy the game.

We need to step away from this idea that they want people to run these old regions. They know that players don't and won't, they know it very well. They reduce grinds like Hytbold for this very reason - they know it's not player friendly once it's no longer level cap and that players will skip it. They know it! They know it of Wildermore, but haven't change that yet, but they know it's rarely run nowadays. That's a "sat in the bank" option for throwing a bone at players at some point when they need to.

This is about store push versus game grind. That's the bottom line. If scrolls were available in Hytbold - they wouldn't have touched it I can assure you. They are now doing the opposite of what they did with Hytbold. Nerfing rewards of one faction in an attempt to make players grind four or five factions instead - but for less reward overall. They still know that players won't want to do this, and they also know that many won't do it. But they are hoping enough of those will take the paid short-cuts. Whether that works for them will rely on a few factors. How many pay, how many stop subs, how many stop playing, how many dig their heels in, how many players sit in the "invested too much already to stop investing now" camp and how much it affects new player acquisition. When it all gets added to the scales and weighed up, that's when they find out if the move is successful or not. The result will determine whether we see more of the same, or emergency damage control.

[wispsong]

We need to step away from this idea that they want people to run these old regions. They know that players don't and won't, they know it very well. They reduce grinds like Hytbold for this very reason - they know it's not player friendly once it's no longer level cap and that players will skip it. They know it! They know it of Wildermore, but haven't change that yet, but they know it's rarely run nowadays. That's a "sat in the bank" option for throwing a bone at players at some point when they need to.

This is about store push versus game grind. That's the bottom line. If scrolls were available in Hytbold - they wouldn't have touched it I can assure you. They are now doing the opposite of what they did with Hytbold. Nerfing rewards of one faction in an attempt to make players grind four or five factions instead - but for less reward overall. They still know that players won't want to do this, and they also know that many won't do it. But they are hoping enough of those will take the paid short-cuts. Whether that works for them will rely on a few factors. How many pay, how many stop subs, how many stop playing, how many dig their heels in, how many players sit in the "invested too much already to stop investing now" camp and how much it affects new player acquisition. When it all gets added to the scales and weighed up, that's when they find out if the move is successful or not. The result will determine whether we see more of the same, or emergency damage control.

I completely understand that this is a store push as I mentioned in my last sentence and considering how many bad decisions they have made lately concerning added grind that can be relieved through the store, the extra festival hobbit presents which are completely based on luck and are nowhere else to be acquired basically push gambling and then we have the keys pushing the same. Instead of using the store to sell new housing, mounts, pets, cosmetics etc (anything non enhancement) they push gambling with the items that players might actually buy in the store especially since they would be limited time. It is sad to see the game go down like this and I hope despite having experienced the contrary that the new head company will change this rather sooner then later. Right now I'm just to burned out to even care. The latest disappointment having done 260 missions to finish the reputation and still missing 75 missions to finish the 10tierx20 mission deed. I really feel punished for buying this mini xpac considering all the late additions they have made without considering those who already put work into it.

[Derquin]

Current situation on SoE grind via landscape.

One Alt

DA daily = 1 SoE per day
DA warbands = how ever many SoE's can be obtained via Amroth silver pieces dropped on the run.
MT dailies = 7 SoE per day
East Gondor Dailies - 3 SoE per day

New proposed changes

Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Dol Amroth Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 44 (since this content predates imbuement).

You may as well just scrap this content. Imbuement starts at level 100, and this barter NPC is very much in a level 100 cap region. Once region is finished, the only way to earn Amroth Silver pieces is via the war bands. Nobody will run these for scrolls that are no good.

Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Rangers of Ithilien Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 59.
Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from Narnaith in Minas Tirith will cap at max-tier 59.
Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 59 will be added to daily and weekly quests on the Quartermaster (Host of the West).

So plenty of options for scrolls to max tier 59, because, earning potential stays the same.

Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 69 will be added to the Restoring the Three Kingdoms quest in Northern Mirkwood.
Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 79 will be added to the Protecting the Beornings, Elves, & Woodmen quests in Vales of Anduin.

Here is where it all starts to fall over. These are WEEKLY quest wrappers - not dailies. This is very much weekly earning, not daily like in MT. Not to mention the massive grind involved in opening up each of these weekly wrappers in the first place. To make these wrappers be equal to what a character can earn currently, just by running MT dailies alone, these wrappers would have to award a combined total of 45 SoEs. Or those wrappers need to be turned into Daily wrappers. Anything less - is a nerf and cannot be disguised as anything else.

The quest "March on Gundabad: Additional Steps (Daily)" will award 2 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83. - so 2 scrolls a day, that's 5 less then MT - so a nerf.
The quest "The War Effort: Threats to the Battlefield" will award 3 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83. - so 3 scrolls a week

This gives a total of 17 scrolls per week, compared to 49 scrolls per week for currently running MT daily every day.

Guys, this is not in any way fixing or even trying to look like fixing - the LI situation that you already know, is killing the game for many players. Players have waited far too long and been way too patient, for this to be the result. Just take a look at those numbers! This is still a GIANT nerf to current SoE acquisition. You have already lost lots of players over this grind. Rolling this out will just lose more.

Thanks for the summary!

Count me out, too. This game has already far too much grind and a growing tendency to nerf older context punishing those who don't keep pace with actual endgame (for whatever reasons)
My friends and me see no further motivation to even bother with newer (mini-) expansions without proper catch-up for LI or alternatives to LI.

[Arnenna]

I completely understand that this is a store push as I mentioned in my last sentence and considering how many bad decisions they have made lately concerning added grind that can be relieved through the store, the extra festival hobbit presents which are completely based on luck and are nowhere else to be acquired basically push gambling and then we have the keys pushing the same. Instead of using the store to sell new housing, mounts, pets, cosmetics etc (anything non enhancement) they push gambling with the items that players might actually buy in the store especially since they would be limited time. It is sad to see the game go down like this and I hope despite having experienced the contrary that the new head company will change this rather sooner then later. Right now I'm just to burned out to even care. The latest disappointment having done 260 missions to finish the reputation and still missing 75 missions to finish the 10tierx20 mission deed. I really feel punished for buying this mini xpac considering all the late additions they have made without considering those who already put work into it.

That is exactly why I'm running the missions on my main with no boosters. We need so many of them to get all the deeds done, that using boosters is a waste. I will be stopping just before I reach the end of it, because my virtues are all capped, and completing it awards . . . yup, vxp.

[Glynn]

Anfalas Scrolls of Empowerment (without tier caps) will continue to be available from a variety of level scaling and group content sources such as Featured Instances, Epic Battles barter, Skirmish camp barter, PvMP barter, Gift Giver's Brand barter, and many our our three and six player Instance chests as well as Raid chests.

Which is fine for those players that group up. I realize it's always difficult to address everyone's playstyle but...

I've got 10 characters, yes I'm one of those people, altaholics. Three of my 10 are all done with the LI grind. I spent untold mithril coins on the 'crystals'.

What I do is play a main with my Wife. When she's not available I play one of the others until I finish all the PvE content.

Before I start playing the one I'm leveling, I grind out the scrolls needed to max the LIs by running all 10 through the daily training quest in Dol Amroth. That has been anywhere between 30-60 days. Per day time spent about 1 hour 15 mintues to acquire 10 scrolls. Yes, incredibly boring but I just put on an audio book or music and go on autopilot. It works for me.

Now, with these changes, all the traveling needed to complete the varied quests must be taken into account. Not too mention the actual time to complete the different quests. Running just one of my 'maxed' characters through all the content to keep up with the Ember/Mote grind is roughly four hours a week. That highlighted to me that not all quests are created equal when it comes to time spent taking and completing them.

Please stop making scrolls level bound. I don't understand the need to make it worse to manage then it already is. Currently I need 2,712 to get all my characters' LIs done. Using my preferred method, that amounts to 1 month, two weeks of PLAY time and 271 actual days grinding scrolls to get done. That is unless within that time there's yet another level increase and more levels are unlockable on the items. (Yes, I do acquire scrolls through other means. However, since I don't know how many quests award them and how many I've historically obtained through the other means those numbers have been left out.)

I've personally spent more than $1,500 on the three accounts I have for this game. Decisions to make things harder on people like myself, may lead to breaking my addiction to the game. There's a good thing.

[Ethrildar]

PLEASE can you stop making the LI grind even worse than it already is?

There are so many avenues this game could explore to monetise and add revenue streams that the players would either A) not care about or B) would actually embrace, but you guys just repeatedly pick the route that upsets and forces your player-base away as well as costing more development time and causing further imbalance. Why???

Yet another money-grab update. Sigh.

[wispsong]

That is exactly why I'm running the missions on my main with no boosters. We need so many of them to get all the deeds done, that using boosters is a waste. I will be stopping just before I reach the end of it, because my virtues are all capped, and completing it awards . . . yup, vxp.

But that's just it, I didn't use more then 10k rep in boosters. These deeds were added long after release. Anyways, I'm burned out and will just forget them for now. Haven't even played at all since Yule ended.

[MadMax389]

My wife and I have been playing this game for nearly 14 years. 2 lifetime subs and we spend a couple hundred dollars a year mostly for housing, MC, carryalls etc (which is fine). We have one of the oldest kinships on Brandywine. Between us we have 6 lvl 130 toons and are leveling more alts. We are super casual, non-raiding, mostly non-grouping players. I spend most of my play week grinding motes and embers to max out non-raid armor, jewelry and essences and grinding for the insane amount of SOE scrolls at MT for future LI's for alts. We grind marks for rep scrolls to get faction in the new content across 12 toons over lvl 100. This weekly grind hardly leaves any time for completing the new content much less leveling alts. I mostly stay out of the doom and gloom threads that seem to accompany every major change in the game. But these changes to rep and scrolls may be a bridge too far for us. I will not be buying these items in the store.

To SSG and EG7,
I believe my wife and I represent your most loyal customer base, sticking with the game through thick and thin and paying for the privilege. Please don't alienate us. If the additional grind caused by these changes cause the game to not be fun anymore, you will certainly lose us. We won't scream or curse or clutch our pearls. We'll simply fade away and this game will become a fond memory.

Respectfully,
Madmax

[Ardar]

Regarding Scrolls of Empowerment:
We really do want to make the process of acquiring these scrolls more varied and more meaningful at a given end-game, but we also want the acquisition process to be appropriate to the level of the content. We'll be fixing a math error quickly discovered by the community regarding how we set tier limits on scrolls from Gondor, which makes them largely useless for Imbued items unless your character is on a Legendary World with a level cap below 115. We also intend to address a gap in available scrolls for solo landscape players at level caps 105, 115, and 120.
Here are our current 28.3 plans for Scrolls of Empowerment:

• Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Dol Amroth Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 44 (since this content predates imbuement).
• Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Rangers of Ithilien Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 59.
• Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from Narnaith in Minas Tirith will cap at max-tier 59.
• Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 59 will be added to daily and weekly quests on the Quartermaster (Host of the West).
• Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 69 will be added to the Restoring the Three Kingdoms quest in Northern Mirkwood.
• Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 79 will be added to the Protecting the Beornings, Elves, & Woodmen quests in Vales of Anduin.
• The quest "March on Gundabad: Additional Steps (Daily)" will award 2 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.
• The quest "The War Effort: Threats to the Battlefield" will award 3 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83.

Didn't see an answer but why is there no Scrolls cap 83 in Minas Morgul and Wells of Langflood. Which are for the max level ?

Frankly absolutely all zones and reputations since Dol Amroth must have barter scrolls. Not just few of them.
Or more ideally, just give us a LOT more scrolls.


All of this (and not just this one problem) make me wondering if I will just stop buying store points or even stop playing totally.

[erowydd]

We need to step away from this idea that they want people to run these old regions. They know that players don't and won't, they know it very well. They reduce grinds like Hytbold for this very reason - they know it's not player friendly once it's no longer level cap and that players will skip it. They know it! They know it of Wildermore, but haven't change that yet, but they know it's rarely run nowadays. That's a "sat in the bank" option for throwing a bone at players at some point when they need to.

This is about store push versus game grind. That's the bottom line. If scrolls were available in Hytbold - they wouldn't have touched it I can assure you. They are now doing the opposite of what they did with Hytbold. Nerfing rewards of one faction in an attempt to make players grind four or five factions instead - but for less reward overall. They still know that players won't want to do this, and they also know that many won't do it. But they are hoping enough of those will take the paid short-cuts. Whether that works for them will rely on a few factors. How many pay, how many stop subs, how many stop playing, how many dig their heels in, how many players sit in the "invested too much already to stop investing now" camp and how much it affects new player acquisition. When it all gets added to the scales and weighed up, that's when they find out if the move is successful or not. The result will determine whether we see more of the same, or emergency damage control.

I admit, since I'm still deep in the grind of my first ILI, I was on the store, tempted, to bypass to get my second rolling. And the fact that this is happening, actually made me NOT do it. The idea that a) I might break down later when it's actually so much worse and b) they're trying to force me to do that very thing, made me close my wallet.

I sincerely doubt I'm alone.

[Sooule]

Current situation on SoE grind via landscape.

One Alt

DA daily = 1 SoE per day
DA warbands = how ever many SoE's can be obtained via Amroth silver pieces dropped on the run.
MT dailies = 7 SoE per day
East Gondor Dailies - 3 SoE per day

New proposed changes

Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Dol Amroth Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 44 (since this content predates imbuement).

You may as well just scrap this content. Imbuement starts at level 100, and this barter NPC is very much in a level 100 cap region. Once region is finished, the only way to earn Amroth Silver pieces is via the war bands. Nobody will run these for scrolls that are no good.

Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Rangers of Ithilien Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 59.
Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from Narnaith in Minas Tirith will cap at max-tier 59.
Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 59 will be added to daily and weekly quests on the Quartermaster (Host of the West).

So plenty of options for scrolls to max tier 59, because, earning potential stays the same.

Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 69 will be added to the Restoring the Three Kingdoms quest in Northern Mirkwood.
Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 79 will be added to the Protecting the Beornings, Elves, & Woodmen quests in Vales of Anduin.

Here is where it all starts to fall over. These are WEEKLY quest wrappers - not dailies. This is very much weekly earning, not daily like in MT. Not to mention the massive grind involved in opening up each of these weekly wrappers in the first place. To make these wrappers be equal to what a character can earn currently, just by running MT dailies alone, these wrappers would have to award a combined total of 45 SoEs. Or those wrappers need to be turned into Daily wrappers. Anything less - is a nerf and cannot be disguised as anything else.

The quest "March on Gundabad: Additional Steps (Daily)" will award 2 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83. - so 2 scrolls a day, that's 5 less then MT - so a nerf.
The quest "The War Effort: Threats to the Battlefield" will award 3 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83. - so 3 scrolls a week

This gives a total of 17 scrolls per week, compared to 49 scrolls per week for currently running MT daily every day.

Guys, this is not in any way fixing or even trying to look like fixing - the LI situation that you already know, is killing the game for many players. Players have waited far too long and been way too patient, for this to be the result. Just take a look at those numbers! This is still a GIANT nerf to current SoE acquisition. You have already lost lots of players over this grind. Rolling this out will just lose more.

This is so SAD. Seeing the numbers right in front of us on paper like this - they're cutting the current scroll weekly amount by two-thirds and making the entire process worse rather than better. For an update! Imagine all of the players in other games who get excited for new updates and new developments. It is frustrating, mindboggling, confusing, and you know what, effing hurtful, that they're doing this. Each new update is a brace-for-impact situation because at this point its guaranteed to just be bad fricking news.

I know I usually come out and criticize the developer's/company's decisions and it gets old hearing the same complaints over and over again. But I'm not even mad anymore and I'm beyond disgust; I'm so disappointed and dejected. I don't even feel like logging in anymore. I spent $1200 last year on LOTRO between 3 accounts. There are so many other, better-deserving games or hobbies out there that I could have spent that money on. Its not happening again this year without some serious changes.

[Arnenna]

Didn't see an answer but why is there no Scrolls cap 83 in Minas Morgul and Wells of Langflood. Which are for the max level ?

Frankly absolutely all zones and reputations since Dol Amroth must have barter scrolls. Not just few of them.
Or more ideally, just give us a LOT more scrolls.


All of this (and not just this one problem) make me wondering if I will just stop buying store points or even stop playing totally.

Here are the areas they have skipped.
Far Anorien (token and trinket barter)
South Ithilien (flower and token barter)
The Wastes (flower and token barter)
Mordor (so many ways they could add them to Mordor - allegiance, dailies, instances that they already removed them from)
Iron Hills/Ered Mithrin
Minas Morgul
Wilderland

That list, is longer than the list of where they are adding them.

[Arnenna]

I admit, since I'm still deep in the grind of my first ILI, I was on the store, tempted, to bypass to get my second rolling. And the fact that this is happening, actually made me NOT do it. The idea that a) I might break down later when it's actually so much worse and b) they're trying to force me to do that very thing, made me close my wallet.

I sincerely doubt I'm alone.

I closed my wallet when they announced the mini expac quest pack wouldn't be included in a sub, for good. I closed it before that, but had cause to open it for a few things, like updates on the LS and Bombadil, but as the LS is now full swing into this scroll grind, I have no interest in it, so won't sub up for it.

It's probably a battle of wills at this point and a bit of a vicious circle. The more players that drop their subs, the more they will try things like this to monestise the game - which will result in even more people dropping their subs - or leaving.

There is a "bridge too far" spot for everyone, and as they drive more players to it, the harder it will get to juggle.

Players have all the power on this.

[jevvy]

Totally agree! What's wrong with making the grind slightly easier from doing MT dailies anyway? it's not like it gives us 100s in a day!
Making a new LI from scratch, which you do need to do for swap outs andd changes to raids / char setps.... takes weeks as it is with the current grind.. Why make it worse for us?

Current situation on SoE grind via landscape.

One Alt

DA daily = 1 SoE per day
DA warbands = how ever many SoE's can be obtained via Amroth silver pieces dropped on the run.
MT dailies = 7 SoE per day
East Gondor Dailies - 3 SoE per day

New proposed changes

Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Dol Amroth Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 44 (since this content predates imbuement).

You may as well just scrap this content. Imbuement starts at level 100, and this barter NPC is very much in a level 100 cap region. Once region is finished, the only way to earn Amroth Silver pieces is via the war bands. Nobody will run these for scrolls that are no good.

Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from the Rangers of Ithilien Quartermaster will cap at max-tier 59.
Scrolls of Empowerment available to barter from Narnaith in Minas Tirith will cap at max-tier 59.
Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 59 will be added to daily and weekly quests on the Quartermaster (Host of the West).

So plenty of options for scrolls to max tier 59, because, earning potential stays the same.

Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 69 will be added to the Restoring the Three Kingdoms quest in Northern Mirkwood.
Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier of 79 will be added to the Protecting the Beornings, Elves, & Woodmen quests in Vales of Anduin.

Here is where it all starts to fall over. These are WEEKLY quest wrappers - not dailies. This is very much weekly earning, not daily like in MT. Not to mention the massive grind involved in opening up each of these weekly wrappers in the first place. To make these wrappers be equal to what a character can earn currently, just by running MT dailies alone, these wrappers would have to award a combined total of 45 SoEs. Or those wrappers need to be turned into Daily wrappers. Anything less - is a nerf and cannot be disguised as anything else.

The quest "March on Gundabad: Additional Steps (Daily)" will award 2 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83. - so 2 scrolls a day, that's 5 less then MT - so a nerf.
The quest "The War Effort: Threats to the Battlefield" will award 3 Scrolls of Empowerment with a max-tier cap of 83. - so 3 scrolls a week

This gives a total of 17 scrolls per week, compared to 49 scrolls per week for currently running MT daily every day.

Guys, this is not in any way fixing or even trying to look like fixing - the LI situation that you already know, is killing the game for many players. Players have waited far too long and been way too patient, for this to be the result. Just take a look at those numbers! This is still a GIANT nerf to current SoE acquisition. You have already lost lots of players over this grind. Rolling this out will just lose more.

[Daniyel]

I would really like to know asap.
answer as completely as you're willing to:

-1) is 28.3 going Live On Tuesday Jan 19th? (i expect only SSG can know)
0) is there going to be another round of Bullroarer for this? (i expect only SSG can know)
1) is the current plan to retroactively make all Small Reputation Acceleration Tomes purchased PRIOR TO the update going live, Bind-on-acquire? like as soon as the item hits inventory?