non-Big Battle way through Epic in Pelargir

[Froyo_K_Baggins]

You need to add a non-battle version of Pelargir the same way you added them for Helm's Deep. I get slaughtered on multiple toons trying to just get through the epic. Should be able to do it solo.

[wispsong]

I hope they will do so.

[OldMadeOfLions]

You need to add a non-battle version of Pelargir the same way you added them for Helm's Deep.

The Storied Tales for Helm's Deep were a pet project of mine that I fit in around the edges of my other work - I don't think the drop-off in completion rates for Pelargir or the Minas Tirith battles are quite as severe as at Helm's Deep, so I'm not sure they're as necessary. As usual I'll keep an eye out for if there's a huge demand, though.

MoL

[gcpate]

+1 on the way to "huge demand."

[wispsong]

The Storied Tales for Helm's Deep were a pet project of mine that I fit in around the edges of my other work - I don't think the drop-off in completion rates for Pelargir or the Minas Tirith battles are quite as severe as at Helm's Deep, so I'm not sure they're as necessary. As usual I'll keep an eye out for if there's a huge demand, though.

MoL

Thank you for the extra work and I hope you find the time for Pelagir. I have never been able to finish it solo and it is a hurdle since most players I was able to finish this one with are gone. MT is not as big a problem unless something changed but extremely boring.

[Froyo_K_Baggins]

The Storied Tales for Helm's Deep were a pet project of mine that I fit in around the edges of my other work - I don't think the drop-off in completion rates for Pelargir or the Minas Tirith battles are quite as severe as at Helm's Deep, so I'm not sure they're as necessary. As usual I'll keep an eye out for if there's a huge demand, though.

MoL

Thank you for that info and for what you did with HD. The same is needed for Pelargir.

It's not soloable by a BB noob. The final battle has too many mobs to keep the soldiers alive, and then your toon alive.

Also, it seems buggy. I ran it with my toon and was swamped by mobs, far more than I remembered when we ran it at level cap. When I asked a kinnie to join me, it had other problems. The timing of the encounter bosses was messed up throughout. The fight in the area with civilians was weird, it seemed to complete, then during the final battle we got a message that civilians were being killed -- after than stage had formally completed. The opposite of the previous run happened, with us getting almost no mobs, they just disappeared from below and never appeared up top. Then we had to stand around for a while to wait on the last encounter boss.

I've never been thrilled with BBs, you already had skirms and could have just added new ones. They need to be revamped so people just running the epic line can do them or, like you did in HD, you need to add a second path to avoid BBs.

This is as necessary for the Epic quest line as the great work you did for the HD Storied Tales. I've run two toons through them. You get a nice view of the story line without the poorly thought out mechanics of BBs. Please do the same for Pelargir.

If you do, this altaholic will be very happy.

[Daeshok]

The Storied Tales for Helm's Deep were a pet project of mine that I fit in around the edges of my other work - I don't think the drop-off in completion rates for Pelargir or the Minas Tirith battles are quite as severe as at Helm's Deep, so I'm not sure they're as necessary. As usual I'll keep an eye out for if there's a huge demand, though.

MoL

Wow this awesome, haven't done the epic through Helms Deep in years, currently leveling up an alt that will soon arrive there, this new option is amazing! Just went through the Pelargrir and MT ones, while they aren't nearly as draining, still reminds me of the whole BB system with... Less than delight lol.

[istvana]

One thing I learned a lot more slowly than I might have that makes a huge difference in soloing Pelargir. A BB where I so often died doing the last phase.

Even with no engineering skill at all you can use the catapults. In the last area run straight to the last one on the left as you go in and work on it immediately to the exclusion of all else. The NPCs can handle everything but the far end. Get a few buckets of flaming oil or pitch off - whatever a non-engineer can do - and you and the elves won't get swarmed. You may not get gold or platinum but you will get through it. Well almost all the time.

[Froyo_K_Baggins]

One thing I learned a lot more slowly than I might have that makes a huge difference in soloing Pelargir. A BB where I so often died doing the last phase.

Even with no engineering skill at all you can use the catapults. In the last area run straight to the last one on the left as you go in and work on it immediately to the exclusion of all else. The NPCs can handle everything but the far end. Get a few buckets of flaming oil or pitch off - whatever a non-engineer can do - and you and the elves won't get swarmed. You may not get gold or platinum but you will get through it. Well almost all the time.

Trust me, I did. Didn't help. Then, as I pointed out above, the next one was bugged in the other direction. With two of us we just built the catapults, the other was an engineer and placed barricades so we just killed mobs trying to destroy the catapults, and we still got far fewer mobs than I did solo with a catapult. It's buggy and no tricks should be needed. I'd love another Story to replace it.

[Nomendil]

Trust me, I did. Didn't help. Then, as I pointed out above, the next one was bugged in the other direction. With two of us we just built the catapults, the other was an engineer and placed barricades so we just killed mobs trying to destroy the catapults, and we still got far fewer mobs than I did solo with a catapult. It's buggy and no tricks should be needed. I'd love another Story to replace it.

You can also do this: the 1st stage, protect the Winch, then the second stage, put traps then try to set cades, after that stage, try to go upstairs and taking a tour to the final stage, that will keep the mobs in place and not swarming, so build the cats and keep shooting them until the battle ends. Still is faster if in Duo, try to find someone in World, usually someone will join, at least in landroval people joins Pelargir Duos

[Froyo_K_Baggins]

Sigh, still ardently clueless, but if you're comfortable with that then you should stick with it.

[Wolfhelm]

Sigh, still ardently clueless, but if you're comfortable with that then you should stick with it.

Or perhaps when someone like Nomendil kindly offers advice on how to deal with a fairly simple game mechanic, so you can get through a battle that thousands before you have successfully dealt with, you could actually try the tactics he suggests rather than insist that the developers reinvent the game to suit you.

[Zoraine]

You need to add a non-battle version of Pelargir the same way you added them for Helm's Deep. I get slaughtered on multiple toons trying to just get through the epic. Should be able to do it solo.

I would also like a non Big battle way to do this - I have done it once, but it was not in the least bit enjoyable. It added zero fun to my game, and games need to be fun. Please give more choice to players on this - we should at least be able to do the Epic without these things - we need an option to bypass and complete this - and leave the choice to do it for those who enjoy.

[Nihria]

Or perhaps when someone like Nomendil kindly offers advice on how to deal with a fairly simple game mechanic, so you can get through a battle that thousands before you have successfully dealt with, you could actually try the tactics he suggests rather than insist that the developers reinvent the game to suit you.

I think you aren't, but if on Gwaihir, i offer everyone the posibility to do Pelargir Duo once with me (i think more would be to time-consuming).
My Hunter with much BB-Skill points garantees an Platinum solved run even if you do only side-seeing meanwhile

Write Post or IMS to Fulya

[Wolfhelm]

I think you aren't, but if on Gwaihir, i offer everyone the posibility to do Pelargir Duo once with me (i think more would be to time-consuming).
My Hunter with much BB-Skill points garantees an Platinum solved run even if you do only side-seeing meanwhile

Write Post or IMS to Fulya

I'm not on Gwaihir, I have characters on Arkenstone and Anor and I have platinum on all BBs on both servers.

My response was to Froyo, who, instead of thanking someone for offering good advice on how to get through a BB he actually insulted him.

I happen to enjoy Big Battles, but I do realise that they are not everyone's cup of tea, and I also understand that some people are reluctant to try anything new.

My point is that they are not that difficult, even without promotion points, and that there are plenty of articles and videos online showing you exactly what you need to do to get through them. There are even kind people who, like yourself, have offered to take people through the battles as a duo.

It would seem that for many people the advice and generous offers of help have fallen on deaf ears, for them it's not their responsibility to learn and find a way through, it's the responsibility of the developers to waste resources rewriting the game to suit them.

[scorrp10]

I can generally understand Helm's Deep... pretty much nobody runs those.

And BBs have always been a catch-22. Only way to get a decent rank point count is by getting high scores on battles and side quests. And it can be very hard to impossible to do those well without high rank points. At some stage, around maybe 100-120 points or so, you kinda break through to where it gets a lot easier, but till then it can be real bad.

But Pelargir... at least on Crickhollow, it seems like not 15 min goes by without somebody shouting out a 'Pel' group start on LFF channel. Seriously, this is an MMO. Next time you see a Pel group forming, send the leader a tell asking if they can take a BB newbie who is trying to advance the epic. I'd say 9 out of 10 they'll be ok with it. You can do a full plat Pel run with 2-3 high rankers as long as the rest keep their eyes and ears open, follow the veterans and help with DPS where needed.

MT battles are quite trivial, you can ignore the side quests. The key to 'hammer' is to use your catapults to kill the enemy catapults - quite easily done even with 0 engineer rank.

[DavidmeetHal]

I would also like a non Big battle way to do this - I have done it once, but it was not in the least bit enjoyable. It added zero fun to my game, and games need to be fun. Please give more choice to players on this - we should at least be able to do the Epic without these things - we need an option to bypass and complete this - and leave the choice to do it for those who enjoy.

I'm with this all the way. I hate those things, totally and honestly hate them.


Seriously I despise them.

[Froyo_K_Baggins]

I'm with this all the way. I hate those things, totally and honestly hate them.


Seriously I despise them.

I'm replying to your sig line. Once saw a bumper sticker that said "Get even with your children, spoil your grandkids."

[RohanKitteh]

+1 for this needing a re-worked version, very much so.

Ran into it on my main (hunter) and can manage the first two sections of it, but then the NPCs and I just get swarmed by what seems like half of Rhun coming up those ropes in the last area and eventually we just can't out-DPS the ever-growing swarm of mobs, then I go down and one of the NPCs is down by the time I get back, flushing twenty or thirty minutes of work straight down the crapper with absolutely nothing to show for it.

Either a story mode for it (like Helm's Deep got) or a nice buff to make it so those of us who have otherwise forsaken Big Battles thanks to said Helm's Deep story-mode to avoid turning us into screaming piles of frustration would be absolutely lovely, thanks.

[Andarlawen]

+1 for this needing a re-worked version, very much so.

Ran into it on my main (hunter) and can manage the first two sections of it, but then the NPCs and I just get swarmed by what seems like half of Rhun coming up those ropes in the last area and eventually we just can't out-DPS the ever-growing swarm of mobs, then I go down and one of the NPCs is down by the time I get back, flushing twenty or thirty minutes of work straight down the crapper with absolutely nothing to show for it.

Either a story mode for it (like Helm's Deep got) or a nice buff to make it so those of us who have otherwise forsaken Big Battles thanks to said Helm's Deep story-mode to avoid turning us into screaming piles of frustration would be absolutely lovely, thanks.

+1 from me too, could not have said it better.

[Sarawenn]

+1 here as well.

To be honest, I've never enjoyed the BBs, and would prefer a way to bypass them all entirely to finish the Epics.

[onor]

I love BBs but understand the daunting nature of them. I've said before, just start people with 100 promo points, and much of the complaining will go away.

[wispsong]

I love BBs but understand the daunting nature of them. I've said before, just start people with 100 promo points, and much of the complaining will go away.

BBs are a totally different beast from questing and even other instances. I compare them to MC. Systems that play differently than normal game play. So, promo points don't help, and the tutorial doesn't either. It's not a game I enjoy and want to play. It's worse than the session plays, and it can cost you hours without result.

[TesalionLortus]

Bit Battles exist because these were supposed to be big lengthy battles canonically. And they get this immersion point across very well (except for dated background army imposters). You standing there, watching your soldiers and captains beat up wave upon wave of enemies. The skirmish approach to those (Caras Gelebren) - or short "storied instances" that take 5 minute tops like Helm's Deep ones... - are really contradictory to what such battles are canonically supposed to feel like and instead feel a lot more gamey and artificial.

But I do get the desire to skip them, if they're proving annoying or difficult. In which case there should be a skip option, more like a shortened accounts added for sessions plays, rather than full-scale instances. I really don't want to see MoL putting so much effort into these "storied versions" like with Helm's Deep only for them to feel very short-lived (compared to something like Pelennor experience) and encouraging newbies to experience these battles in this way from the get go (since they're branded as "storied" which sounds kinda superior), thus loosing the amazing immersion of an actual big battle. Something like a "shortened account" doesn't sound superior and more like what it is - a shortcut, not an originally intended version. I know it might be minuscule detail but if it doesn't take much to change this... then I would change the names of these Helm's Deep instanced versions to "shortened" or "alternative", and keep that naming pattern for any other such "shortcut" versions added in the future

[wispsong]

Bit Battles exist because these were supposed to be big lengthy battles canonically. And they get this immersion point across very well (except for dated background army imposters). You standing there, watching your soldiers and captains beat up wave upon wave of enemies. The skirmish approach to those (Caras Gelebren) - or short "storied instances" that take 5 minute tops like Helm's Deep ones... - are really contradictory to what such battles are canonically supposed to feel like and instead feel a lot more gamey and artificial.

But I do get the desire to skip them, if they're proving annoying or difficult. In which case there should be a skip option, more like a shortened accounts added for sessions plays, rather than full-scale instances. I really don't want to see MoL putting so much effort into these "storied versions" like with Helm's Deep only for them to feel very short-lived (compared to something like Pelennor experience) and encouraging newbies to experience these battles in this way from the get go (since they're branded as "storied" which sounds kinda superior), thus loosing the amazing immersion of an actual big battle. Something like a "shortened account" doesn't sound superior and more like what it is - a shortcut, not an originally intended version. I know it might be minuscule detail but if it doesn't take much to change this... then I would change the names of these Helm's Deep instanced versions to "shortened" or "alternative", and keep that naming pattern for any other such "shortcut" versions added in the future

The long version is boring though (except Pelagir which I can't solo) and for me does really not depict the battle as well as for example Pelennor fields and the battle before the gate. Even the battle before Orthanc in Dunland imo is better played through. Overall, I prefer story versions through the battles over Epic Battles.