Please give us the option to keep the old skill use animation

[ItaOperor]

i cannot take this colour blind thing seriously

new animations are much bigger in scope with more/larger movement

it would make it easier to see BY COLOURBLIND PEOPLE compared to before

If you aren't colour blind I have no idea how you think you can speak with any authority on this issue.

A bunch of colour blind people have come into this forum and said they are having issues with this update and you think they are all lying?

I'm not having issues with this update (as far as I can tell but I definitely prefer the old animations) and want to see the changes reversed. It must be awful trying to play and either not being able to see what's going on or getting eyestrain/nausea.

Cord's post about a fix happening eventually is also disgraceful - this should be a priority for SSG to fix and get right.

[Braer]

I'm sorry and I'm not trying to be rude. This takes the issue into the realm of absurdity. Optional is enough - because its up to the player to decide whether they want it or not. If you're watching a streamer, they can choose how they want their gaming experience to look, and based on viewer feedback they can choose to change something or not. Discretion is entirely the viewer's responsibility. There are no legal implications for the game developer because there is a legal disclaimer/seizure warning in the EULA in every language provided: https://www.lotro.com/en/content/lor...ence-agreement

I'd argue that such a specific issue being raised yet left in the game would be enough to challenge that. "Buyer beware" is morally bankrupt, is this how you view SSG/Daybreak? And what of those who don't frequent the forms and haven't made the connection but log off feeling ill and log back on less often. Mind you that doesn't feel at odds with the business model of late.

P.S. I'm only posting some thoughts as I don't have the confidence the staff making decisions will have got there yet.

[CaerArianrhod]

We intend to create a toggle in the future that will let people swap between the new and old skill animation UI, but we currently can't promise an ETA until we get further down the road with it.

Sorry Cordovan, but this answer not enough this time.
I would like to ask you to stud up as the community manager and force a hot-fix in the name of the player base. Not in the terms of "we have no ETA", but in the terms "next week!"

The current animation is game-breaking. First of all for all those players, who have health issues with it, but for all others too since they are many skills where we simple can not tell if the skill is active or not.

I know it is needless to ask, but i do ask it nonetheless: how this change could pass thought your QA?

[Sooule]

I'd argue that such a specific issue being raised yet left in the game would be enough to challenge that. "Buyer beware" is morally bankrupt

They are covered under the EULA disclaimer. When you install and play the game you are acknowledging that you read and understand the EULA, and it is a legally binding contract. If you read what I linked, it states "Some individuals may have seizures triggered by certain light patterns or flashing lights like those on a screen or while playing video games. Seizures may occur even in persons who have no history of seizures or epilepsy. Stop playing the Game immediately and consult your doctor if you experience any of the following symptoms during gameplay – dizziness, altered vision, eye or muscle twitches, loss of awareness, disorientation, any involuntary movement, or convulsions."

Updates to the game are covered by this because if you did your due diligence as a player, you read the EULA before playing the game at all and already knew about the risk and possibility of seizures. A lawsuit of this nature would not likely have any weight in a court of law because of the disclaimer, because you or anyone else as the user was already aware of the risk and chose to play anyway. And because you cannot pinpoint the new skill animations or any specific thing in the game as having been the culprit of triggering a seizure, it is only an assumption and possible coincidence that these new animations are what caused it.

And yes, it is buyer beware, because you are responsible for yourself and whoever your independents are if you have any. SSG did not set out to intentionally or deliberately harm you or anyone else with this update. They were and are not negligent just because they can't immediately fix this. They have acknowledged the issue and have explained they will implement a toggle, but they cannot promise when it will roll out. I am sorry if that means you or others cannot play the game in the meantime. I am sorry that you and others are having difficulties. I have stopped playing games before either temporarily or permanently because of graphics/animation changes. I get migraines chronically, severely, and somewhat frequently, lots of things trigger them and I have no definitive way of knowing what the exact causes were/are. That is on me to monitor and then act accordingly.

[Terannl]

So same time frame as fixing the Guard shield use rank LI.

So in 5 to 10 millennia?

[Seregthol]

They are covered under the EULA disclaimer. When you install and play the game you are acknowledging that you read and understand the EULA...

Here we go again.

NO ONE is arguing that SSG doesn't have the "right" to add this new sparkly garbage. However, hundreds of posters ARE arguing that it's stupid, painful, distracting, hard-to-follow, game-breaking, migraine causing, ridiculous, and was applied by the company despite overwhelmingly negative feedback from their Customers. And the flippant attitude displayed by SSG in response to those concerns only made the situation worse.

[Arnenna]

I'm not sure optional is enough. What happens if a streamer's viewer start fitting or just gets queasy without knowing the cause? Will the streamer have to include a warning even if they aren't affected themselves? And what are the legal implications to an individual or Daybreak/SSG. Given this thread alone they'd have a tough time avoiding guilt, who'd want to take the risk?

I make a distinction over motion sickness as in mounted combat as that implementation has your mount position adjusted beyond where you perceive it to be: A direct causation. Random flashes at specific frequency ranges can be a real problem so perhaps that could be investigated, and adjusted one way or another if the option has to remain?

I think if it's an optional game function, which can be turned off, then it would be down to the streamer to take that action when streaming, or warn against the issue. Just like a streamer would warn viewers about blood/gore/violence. If you're going to broadcast video for people to watch, then look after those people. i.e. "This video contains constant flashing lights and animations, which may cause problems for photosensitive viewers."

Then . . . it's down to the viewer.

I'll be watching this closely, not so much for myself, but for my Granddaughter. With the list of diagnosed issues like Autism, ADHD, Tourette's syndrome, insomnia and very occasional absence seizures, I don't want to risk anything else appearing on that list. She doesn't play the game, though she does enjoy riding my horse around Bree sometimes (which is very funny as she also has Dyspraxia and her head and body tend to go with the horse. She once jumped down the bank at the North gate and almost fell off her chair lol), but she likes to watch me playing.

Until they sort this - it's no-mans land for her and for me, if she seeks my company.

[Arnenna]

They are covered under the EULA disclaimer. When you install and play the game you are acknowledging that you read and understand the EULA, and it is a legally binding contract. If you read what I linked, it states "Some individuals may have seizures triggered by certain light patterns or flashing lights like those on a screen or while playing video games. Seizures may occur even in persons who have no history of seizures or epilepsy. Stop playing the Game immediately and consult your doctor if you experience any of the following symptoms during gameplay – dizziness, altered vision, eye or muscle twitches, loss of awareness, disorientation, any involuntary movement, or convulsions."

Updates to the game are covered by this because if you did your due diligence as a player, you read the EULA before playing the game at all and already knew about the risk and possibility of seizures. A lawsuit of this nature would not likely have any weight in a court of law because of the disclaimer, because you or anyone else as the user was already aware of the risk and chose to play anyway. And because you cannot pinpoint the new skill animations or any specific thing in the game as having been the culprit of triggering a seizure, it is only an assumption and possible coincidence that these new animations are what caused it.

And yes, it is buyer beware, because you are responsible for yourself and whoever your independents are if you have any. SSG did not set out to intentionally or deliberately harm you or anyone else with this update. They were and are not negligent just because they can't immediately fix this. They have acknowledged the issue and have explained they will implement a toggle, but they cannot promise when it will roll out. I am sorry if that means you or others cannot play the game in the meantime. I am sorry that you and others are having difficulties. I have stopped playing games before either temporarily or permanently because of graphics/animation changes. I get migraines chronically, severely, and somewhat frequently, lots of things trigger them and I have no definitive way of knowing what the exact causes were/are. That is on me to monitor and then act accordingly.

EULA or not, that's not the point. The point is, make your viewers/players as "least risk" as possible. If the flashing animations were a necessity, then fair enough - but, they're not. We have been playing without them for 14 years. I wonder if they ran a risk assessment before implementing this. Identify hazards and measure risk potential, then implement controls to minimise risk to the lowest possible measure you can.

I seriously doubt it. It's what I do for a living, and if it went like this, HSE would be all over me.

[Starsmith]

I do not understand how these skill bar animations are causing so much of an issue, but lightning effects and the like caused by RK and LM skills are not causing issues for people?

LM effects do cause issues for me, quite a few, though there are graphic settings to reduce the effects.

ETA: One of the ways I minimize the LM flashy sparklefest in raids is to, when practical, look at nothing but my skill bar. Which has suddenly turned into a sparklefest itself... Fortunately the new effects aren't bothering me as much as they are some (besides the eye-strain of trying to figure out if I've got my skills toggled or not), but it's certainly not ideal to have no where to look on a screen that's not a sparklefest.

[BinaryTertiary]

If you aren't colour blind I have no idea how you think you can speak with any authority on this issue.

A bunch of colour blind people have come into this forum and said they are having issues with this update and you think they are all lying?

I'm not having issues with this update (as far as I can tell but I definitely prefer the old animations) and want to see the changes reversed. It must be awful trying to play and either not being able to see what's going on or getting eyestrain/nausea.

Cord's post about a fix happening eventually is also disgraceful - this should be a priority for SSG to fix and get right.

im not colourblind but my friend cannot see red-shades he has always had issues queing skills that had a red icon. new ones are an improvement but without an actual colourblind mode supported by the game he has to make due with screenfilters and patch-fixes.

so no....i have no authority nor have i spoken as authority. but from second-hand knowledge i was told the new effects are much more noticable.

if any effort should be made regarding this, make the game adapt various colour-deficiency modes

[Sooule]

Here we go again.

NO ONE is arguing that SSG doesn't have the "right" to add this new sparkly garbage. However, hundreds of posters ARE arguing that it's stupid, painful, distracting, hard-to-follow, game-breaking, migraine causing, ridiculous, and was applied by the company despite overwhelmingly negative feedback from their Customers. And the flippant attitude displayed by SSG in response to those concerns only made the situation worse.

You are correct, no one was arguing that. What I was discussing with the other person was the legal ramifications of SSG/Daybreak not immediately fixing this, and keeping it live. Which, there are none. I have stated multiple times that the complaints are valid and yes, SSG should be working to immediately fix the issue and the fact that it has gone on for so long without a fix or change *is* ridiculous. But to imply or outright argue that SSG could or should face legal backlash for this is absurd.

[Seregthol]

I have stated multiple times that the complaints are valid and yes, SSG should be working to immediately fix the issue and the fact that it has gone on for so long without a fix or change *is* ridiculous.

Agreed. Thanks for clarifying.

[Tavi]

Can anyone who is experiencing ill health effects from the skill bar animations give their take/experience/opinion about the skill animations/effects from flashy skills by RK, LM, or even mini's Call of Oromë skill?

They do sometimes, and I play both RK and LM, (haven't played my mini much at all). But the difference for me is that it's not (typically) constant, and frequently is, how to describe it... where I'm looking. The skill animations are more at the edge of my focus unless I'm looking straight at my bars, so it's more constant flickering closer to the edge of my vision, and that creates a problem for me. I suppose I could "fix" it by moving the bars to the middle of my screen, but then I wouldn't be able to see what's going on anyway. Before, on the days when I know I would be affected the worst, I wouldn't play, or I'd be sure to go do something well away from other folks - slayer deeds in remote areas, crafting at my kin house, redecorating, exploring, solo instances, etc.. But I can't get away from my skill bar. And if I'm going to do anything but the most basic of things, like running around, I can't get away from using my skills.

I'm not color blind, do wear glasses, am chronically ill with things that are fatiguing - both muscular (which includes eyes), and brain (which processes stuff). It's also important to remember that sensitivity to visual effects is highly individual - someone may indeed be highly sensitive but not have an issue with this effect. It's also prone to be variable within a person - I'm more affected when I'm tired, having a high pain day, (i.e. days when I most need the distraction of something like lotro!), or have had to deal with some other thing that triggers photosensitivity (such as watching a tv show with strobing effects, tv ads seem to be particularly bad sometimes). So yes, someone can be okay with it one day but not the next. It can also simply make someone more prone to be sensitive to other triggers.

I hope that helps you understand!

[Wyllshire]

And still no official response from SSG? I suppose I shouldn't be shocked anymore.

[Nosdracir]

im not colourblind but my friend cannot see red-shades he has always had issues queing skills that had a red icon. new ones are an improvement but without an actual colourblind mode supported by the game he has to make due with screenfilters and patch-fixes.

so no....i have no authority nor have i spoken as authority. but from second-hand knowledge i was told the new effects are much more noticable.

if any effort should be made regarding this, make the game adapt various colour-deficiency modes

There are several types of color blindness and within each type there's a range. I'm pretty bad with reds and greens e.g. ham looks blue and you can place small pumpkins in a lush lawn and I can only spot them at a distance by texture. I had no problem whatsoever with the old animations but some of the new ones are impossible for me to detect unless I put my face less than a foot from the screen.

[DavidmeetHal]

And the flippant attitude displayed by SSG in response to those concerns only made the situation worse.

As much as I have to lean forward and squint at the screen now, SSG's flippant response really irks me even more than the eye strain. It's disgraceful and disgusting.

[Hallsae]

OK I think I know what the problem is. The OP made the thread title sound unimportant, so the devs didn't take any notice of it. "Can we please have a toggle" is simply not good enough. It should be: "URGENT! Please revert the skill animation changes ASAP!"

[Hallsae]

Sooooo…any update? Devs? Pls release 29.0.1 on the server restart/maintenance to revert this.

[Braer]

You are correct, no one was arguing that. What I was discussing with the other person was the legal ramifications of SSG/Daybreak not immediately fixing this, and keeping it live. Which, there are none. I have stated multiple times that the complaints are valid and yes, SSG should be working to immediately fix the issue and the fact that it has gone on for so long without a fix or change *is* ridiculous. But to imply or outright argue that SSG could or should face legal backlash for this is absurd.

I didn't doubt that Daybreak would be covered but with the majority of official streamer output being static keyboard spam they are adding huge numbers of skills to the skill queue without executing them. They obviously aren't looking directly at the skill bars themselves, their viewers might be. Go to your nearest target dummy and take note when spamming a load of keys and looking directly at the skill bars. It's easy to find spamming official streamer output to compare. Would streamers be covered by Daybreak terms? Always seemed like a very one sided association to me.

[Arabani]

It is almost a week since this game breaking update was installed. Where is the fix for the mess you have created?

[-RF-]

It is almost a week since this game breaking update was installed. Where is the fix for the mess you have created?

In a well-organized software project one would have to do the following steps:
1) find the branch that was used to develop the new skill animations
2) revert the changes made by merging said branch into the development and subsequently the master branch
3) run the corresponding regression tests
4) push to production

Depending on the parallelism of the tests mentioned in 3) this might take a night or so.

However, I do have my doubts that LOTRO is a well-organized software project.

[Cordovan]

We are currently looking into our ability to revert this change until we are able to implement a toggle, but until that work is complete and tested functional it is difficult to provide an ETA.

[Starstorm01]

We are currently looking into our ability to revert this change until we are able to implement a toggle, but until that work is complete and tested functional it is difficult to provide an ETA.

Just press rewind on the tape deck.

[Edlenn]

Thanks, Cord

[Seregthol]

We are currently looking into our ability to revert this change until we are able to implement a toggle, but until that work is complete and tested functional it is difficult to provide an ETA.

Why did it take almost a week to make even this vague response to a LOT of frustrated Customers?