Increase Blue Warden Healing by 10x

[Strider5548]

There are a lot of things SSG could do to fix the broken blue warden tank, but it would be a lot of work. Based on Severlin's comments on class balance it seems obvious that SSG doesn't have the resources to devote to fixing Warden tanks any time in the foreseeable future.

Given the reality of the limited resources that SSG has, I'd like to suggest a simple fix that won't make Warden tanks competitive, but it will be a big step in the right direction, just increase blue warden self heals by a factor of 10.

I just did a quick test on a dummy by keeping 100% uptime on tier 1, tier 2, tier 4, and conviction self heals as well as celebration of skill for the inc heal buff. Keep in mind, this rotation is not realistic in real fights, it leaves literally no time for taunts, damage, or mitigation gambits. Doing nothing but self heals and celebration of skill yields about 17k HPS at its peak. If you increase this by 10x, a Warden could break 100k HPS on themselves while executing other necessary gambits during real fights.

Warden tanks still won't have in combat rezzes, group buffs, a way to protect their fellowship, in combat runspeed boosts, a working panic button (i.e. last stand), or a number of other skills that captains have which would keep them far and above better tanks than Wardens. Still, you would be throwing us a bone and improving this utterly broken spec with literally 0 work/resources other than an engineer multiplying the skills I noted above by 10 and limiting those #'s to blue line only.

Come on SSG, do something for non cappy tanks, please.

[BinaryTertiary]

no we should do the exact opposite and remove/severely limit the self-healing of all tanks

we've reached a stage where healers have been entirely phased out of 3 mans by tanks self-sustain (main culprit of course, being captain then guardians)

replace healings with damage reductions or some other buffs related to healing or increased damage output to bring back healers into the 3 mans

[DKenny]

There are a lot of things SSG could do to fix the broken blue warden tank, but it would be a lot of work. Based on Severlin's comments on class balance it seems obvious that SSG doesn't have the resources to devote to fixing Warden tanks any time in the foreseeable future.

Given the reality of the limited resources that SSG has,....

SSG likes to plead "inadequate resources" when it comes to addressing issues. However, in the past, when they've attempted to address class balance issues, they've typically made it more complicated than it needs to be and do a terrible job of it, often creating as many or more problems than they address. That then requires subsequent patches down the road, i.e. even more resources to fix what they broke in the first place. So the issue isn't really limited resources, but more like limited competence.

[Osglinthor]

no we should do the exact opposite and remove/severely limit the self-healing of all tanks

we've reached a stage where healers have been entirely phased out of 3 mans by tanks self-sustain (main culprit of course, being captain then guardians)

replace healings with damage reductions or some other buffs related to healing or increased damage output to bring back healers into the 3 mans

Healers are mostly phased out of 3 mans due to panic skills and overall short fights,not so much self heals tanks bring.Where you can chain tank trash pulls and survive due to panic skills having more or less no CD between big groups and then chain them on boss is bigger reason healers are not wanted.But then again that is not realy true at all since healers have such easy time in 3 mans with 2 dps just as captain.What is phased out is combo of heal tank dps.

[JERH]

Not sure what the issue is but 10x is way too much. Morale stacking means almost no reason for healers on 3 man anyway. Even blue wardens have such serious AoE dps that 3 dps on a 3 man should just blow away anything before the morale runs out without the need for a dedicated healer type. Now on 6 and 12 mans warden even with 10x self heals just doesn’t have the skill set to tank as stated earlier. Warden is a great dps, why does it need to be forced into a tank role via such a limited heal improvement that won’t really work for larger instances.

Just my 2 lira.

[Strider5548]

no we should do the exact opposite and remove/severely limit the self-healing of all tanks

we've reached a stage where healers have been entirely phased out of 3 mans by tanks self-sustain (main culprit of course, being captain then guardians)

replace healings with damage reductions or some other buffs related to healing or increased damage output to bring back healers into the 3 mans

Self healing has nothing to do with healers being irrelevant in 3 mans. The content in this game is balanced around 12 mans, you can't possibly make 3 mans be balanced the way the game is set up. If SSG did as you suggest to remove self healing and focus on morale preservation, it would have the exact same effect, why would healers need to heal someone who isn't losing health?

There are too many 3 mans in this game and not enough 6 mans, that is the underlying problem with instance content. When you take a game with so many class/trait combinations and try to fit content into picking 3 of them, there will always be extremely unbalanced combinations and some will be extremely favored (cappy tanks, champ DPS), while others will be mostly unwanted (i.e. minnies).

Not sure what the issue is but 10x is way too much. Morale stacking means almost no reason for healers on 3 man anyway. Even blue wardens have such serious AoE dps that 3 dps on a 3 man should just blow away anything before the morale runs out without the need for a dedicated healer type. Now on 6 and 12 mans warden even with 10x self heals just doesn’t have the skill set to tank as stated earlier. Warden is a great dps, why does it need to be forced into a tank role via such a limited heal improvement that won’t really work for larger instances.

Just my 2 lira.

My point is that 10x isn't too much because even if Warden heals were 10x stronger they wouldn't compete with Cappy tanks. As I responded above to the other poster I don't think balance should be centered around 3 mans, but in any case Blue Warden DPS is actually very low, a blue warden who is actually geared for tanking and is focused on defensive gambits will be doing less DPS than guards or cappies. It's a common misconception that Wardens are DPS tanks, they simply are not, because their tanking skills are so bad if you are tanking you have no time to do anything other than a couple AoE Dots for aggro and your crit/PM will be so low that your damage output will be garbage.


Wardens were originally tanking classes, they are (imo) the most interesting tanking class in this game. Just because they have a viable DPS line doesn't mean that SSG should ignore what they broke with the tanking line. I have written many posts outlining dozens and dozens and dozens of suggestions to improve Blue Wardens. I've never seen SSG even acknowledge that there is a problem with Warden tanks, so I've given up and tried to dumb it down to increase our heals by 10x.

[Thorondir]

My point is that 10x isn't too much because even if Warden heals were 10x stronger they wouldn't compete with Cappy tanks.

1) Check out how much Healing is actually done by each skill (Hint, you only need one to get most of the healing)

2) Ask raiders what they actually heal/or are healed in a raid

3) After that, use your brain a few seconds please.

We dont need a tank that can actually self-heal a multitude of what healers can heal and would more or less be able to do most content without any healer - that is not going to solve any Balance issues, it is just shifting them around.

[Krindel]

Yes, warden heals/morale-taps are bad and should be buffed. But if devs will increase only healing, it won't change anything in case of raid tanking, even 10x higher self healing won't ensure warden tank spot in raids and blue warden is already good enough for 3 and 6 man instances even without healing buffs.
Blue Warden won't never get tank spot in raid, because class don't have enough group utility and survivability. Raid can't lose motivation, red Banner, red/blue mark, In harm's way/last stand, shield brother buffs, herald mitigation buff, in-combat res and get instead For the Free Peoples and Hurry up with that!