Regarding Lore-master's damage increase

[AYiawvUoyD]

Most people are talking about the Fire and Frost Lore nerfs (and they are right to do so) but I haven't seen many responses to the damage increase to some skills and I think it's also an important matter that poses some questions on the role of the LM in groups.

I know that these changes are not final and there are more to come, but order to give proper feedback we need to know exactly what's the goal behind them. For the damage increase I see three options:

A) To make solo playing easier: It's no news that the LM is one of the slowest classes to kill mobs on landscape, but that issue comes not only from the low damage output but also from the fact that mosts skills are AoE and to really optimize the damage you do, you need to fight several enemies at the same time, and then survivability becomes an issue as well (especially for lower level LM's that can't use Water-Lore and have no other reliable and consistent source of healing). So in that regard, this is a welcome change but it doesn't encompass the whole issue.

B) To make LM a viable DPS option in raids: If this is the motive you're very, very far away from that goal. In order to reach levels of AoE DPS closer to those of a yellow line Champ, a 20% boost is definetly not going to be enough, and now that yellow line is a less attractive option with the coming changes to Fire+Frost Lore and pet rotations, finding a spot for LMs in small groups is going to be hard. I'm not saying that LMs shouldn't have a viable DPS line, I'd personally love that (although LM skills are notoriously lag inducing and many people would still prefer other classes because of that), but if that's your goal, I hope that this is not the only solution you had in mind.

C) You don't know where you're going with this: I'd like to think this is not true.

TL;DR I'd like to know what's the plan with these changes and what do you expect from this class, both in solo and group content. Right now the LM is a support class that relies heavily on very strong debuffs to be relevant in a group context. Without those very strong debuffs and nothing else to contribute apart from weak debuffs, CC that doesn't affect bosses, stun inmunity that isn't needed, suboptimal DPS and suboptimal healing, LMs become non essential and replaceable.

[Dranak123]

Most people are talking about the Fire and Frost Lore nerfs (and they are right to do so) but I haven't seen many responses to the damage increase to some skills and I think it's also an important matter that poses some questions on the role of the LM in groups.

I know that these changes are not final and there are more to come, but order to give proper feedback we need to know exactly what's the goal behind them. For the damage increase I see three options:

A) To make solo playing easier: It's no news that the LM is one of the slowest classes to kill mobs on landscape, but that issue comes not only from the low damage output but also from the fact that mosts skills are AoE and to really optimize the damage you do, you need to fight several enemies at the same time, and then survivability becomes an issue as well (especially for lower level LM's that can't use Water-Lore and have no other reliable and consistent source of healing). So in that regard, this is a welcome change but it doesn't encompass the whole issue.

B) To make LM a viable DPS option in raids: If this is the motive you're very, very far away from that goal. In order to reach levels of AoE DPS closer to those of a yellow line Champ, a 20% boost is definetly not going to be enough, and now that yellow line is a less attractive option with the coming changes to Fire+Frost Lore and pet rotations, finding a spot for LMs in small groups is going to be hard. I'm not saying that LMs shouldn't have a viable DPS line, I'd personally love that (although LM skills are notoriously lag inducing and many people would still prefer other classes because of that), but if that's your goal, I hope that this is not the only solution you had in mind.

C) You don't know where you're going with this: I'd like to think this is not true.

TL;DR I'd like to know what's the plan with these changes and what do you expect from this class, both in solo and group content. Right now the LM is a support class that relies heavily on very strong debuffs to be relevant in a group context. Without those very strong debuffs and nothing else to contribute apart from weak debuffs, CC that doesn't affect bosses, stun inmunity that isn't needed, suboptimal DPS and suboptimal healing, LMs become non essential and replaceable.

I generally agree with your thinking. Is it the case that SSG are wary of buffing AoE damage too significantly ? Is it too preposterous to imagine lower tier content being spammed by a yellow guard, yellow champ and red LM ? Do the all important DPS figures being pushed out by classes take any consideration of AoE damage , or is there any thought as to which classes hit what % of their DPS as AoE ? If so is total distributed damage going to be relevant in future updates or are single target Bossburners going to remain the thing ? will impending content be written differently ?
To these and more questions I have no answers or knowledge. You may think me somewhat naive. You may be correct.
If however the answer is that the DPS increase is a subtle tune prior to other work (as hinted) then perhaps some other skills could be brought into play. Power of Knowledge seems rather lacklustre ....it would be nice if it pulsed closer or into the six figure range. In redline Natures fury and Wizards fire could get an increase and a bigger increase respectively, and Ents could get a look at either Cd or damage for such a rare and long induction skill. These 3 would add to redline a touch and single target WF and PoK would add overall a little.
Lastly...since Physical Mastery was removed from Will our physical damage has plummeted on auto attacks and staff skills . Maybe a little smidge of PM in vitality or will would be nice !! ( although i am not sure if it has an impact on pet damage.I dont believe it does)
Lastly Lastly..maybe just push pet DPS a bit ?
Lastly Lastly Lastly....with a cherry on top.

[Orthana]

Most people are talking about the Fire and Frost Lore nerfs (and they are right to do so) but I haven't seen many responses to the damage increase to some skills and I think it's also an important matter that poses some questions on the role of the LM in groups.

I know that these changes are not final and there are more to come, but order to give proper feedback we need to know exactly what's the goal behind them. For the damage increase I see three options:

A) To make solo playing easier: It's no news that the LM is one of the slowest classes to kill mobs on landscape, but that issue comes not only from the low damage output but also from the fact that mosts skills are AoE and to really optimize the damage you do, you need to fight several enemies at the same time, and then survivability becomes an issue as well (especially for lower level LM's that can't use Water-Lore and have no other reliable and consistent source of healing). So in that regard, this is a welcome change but it doesn't encompass the whole issue.

B) To make LM a viable DPS option in raids: If this is the motive you're very, very far away from that goal. In order to reach levels of AoE DPS closer to those of a yellow line Champ, a 20% boost is definetly not going to be enough, and now that yellow line is a less attractive option with the coming changes to Fire+Frost Lore and pet rotations, finding a spot for LMs in small groups is going to be hard. I'm not saying that LMs shouldn't have a viable DPS line, I'd personally love that (although LM skills are notoriously lag inducing and many people would still prefer other classes because of that), but if that's your goal, I hope that this is not the only solution you had in mind.

C) You don't know where you're going with this: I'd like to think this is not true.

TL;DR I'd like to know what's the plan with these changes and what do you expect from this class, both in solo and group content. Right now the LM is a support class that relies heavily on very strong debuffs to be relevant in a group context. Without those very strong debuffs and nothing else to contribute apart from weak debuffs, CC that doesn't affect bosses, stun inmunity that isn't needed, suboptimal DPS and suboptimal healing, LMs become non essential and replaceable.

I agree with pretty much everything here. I hope they know what they are doing... It can go both ways.
The increase in dps is a welcome change, though it comes at a steep price with the nerfs to fire and frost lore.