Loremaster and Warden Feedback

[smegullol]

Loremaster Feedback

Problem:
Fire-Lore and Frost-Lore nerf is a good change for 12-man content, it's an OK change for 6 man content but it's a horrible change for 3-man content.

Nerfing Fire-Lore and Frost-Lore will massively impact Loremaster in 3-man instances, because these 2 debuffs is what is allowing groups to switch out a healer for a loremaster. Loremaster heals, DPS and Tanking is simply not good enough without also bringing overpowered Fire-Lore and Frost-Lore.



Solution:
In order to keep Loremaster viable in 3-man content you have 3 options. Preferably do all 3 of these options to make sure that Loremasters are viable in all 3-man instances.

Option 1:
Increase Loremaster DPS to the point where it can compete with actual DPS classes like Champion. This way you can go with a Red Loremaster as the main DPSer in 3-man instances.

Option 2:
Increase Loremaster Healing and/or Debuffs to compensate for the Fire-Lore and Frost-Lore nerf. Increase healing and/or debuffs to the point where Yellow Loremaster can replace actual Heal classes like Minstrel in 3-man instances.

Option 3:
Increase Loremaster Bear Tanking capabilities to allow Loremasters to either Main-Tank certain bosses or act as a 2nd Tank in 3 man instances.






Warden Feedback

Problem:
The DoTs "Medium Bleed - Quick Sweep" and "Low Bleed - Quick Sweep" are way too powerful compared to the other Warden DoTs. These 2 DoTs are also VERY RNG dependent because they have a 30% chance to apply and a 50% chance to consume.

This is a problem because of 3 reasons:

Reason 1:
Having 2 DoTs do far more damage than all other damaging skills or DoTs is obviously bad for the DPS rotation. This is bad because every Warden will just focus on these 2 DoTs to do damage. Better players will see minimal gain from having a better rotation and doing more smaller DoTs in addition to these 2 big DoTs.

Reason 2:
The Quick Sweep DoTs being heavily RNG dependent and also being the main damage source of the Warden, makes the Warden DPS itself RNG dependent. Warden DPS is, because of Quick Sweep DoTs, affected far too much by RNG. DPSing on warden is all about getting lucky and getting that 30% chance Quick Sweep DoTs to apply.

Reason 3:
Quick Sweep DoTs are AoE DoTs that do more single target damage than all Single Target DoTs. This is a problem because you can focus on Quick Sweep DoTs in both single target and AoE fights because it's simply the best at everything.



Solution:

1: Nerf Quick Sweep and remove the RNG
The DoTs "Medium Bleed - Quick Sweep" and "Low Bleed - Quick Sweep" have to get a big damage nerf and the way these DoTs are applied has to be revamped so that it is less RNG dependent.

2: Buff other skills to compensate for the nerf
Warden will need other DPS Skills to be buffed to compensate for the nerf.

I suggest a flat Damage increase and Crit magnitude buff for all Warden skills in all Trait-Lines and a new Red-Line Capstone to replace the trait Honed Spikes.




Parses and Screenshots

I will try to add Parses and Screenshots to back up my claims about Loremaster and Warden. Please help me with this by posting it yourself in the comments.

[smegullol]

[smegullol]

[Jargonaut]

The problem is the contrast between the AoE when using Ancient Master and the single-target mode in other trees. They don't like that you can debuff a dozen mobs in a raid and then they are easy for a dozen players to mow down. But then players don't like that when fighting lower numbers of mobs, such as in 3-man or single/solo landscape, the debuffs are too low. How about an additional debuff skill that is single target, and stacks with fire-lore?

I have wondered for some time why burning embers can slow movement, but not attack speed? And then Fire-lore can reduce attack damage but does not slow mobs down in either movement or attack speed. How about rejiggering the whole set? What if burning embers just has a default 'triple debuff' of movement, attack speed, and damage? It would be small, like 10 percent each, which is what they are current pushing for fire-lore. But... if fire-lore and 'sign of power: command' at the proposed reduced level can stack with these default debuffs, it is then possible to have higher single target debuffs without the global debuff being so high.

[smegullol]

How about an additional debuff skill that is single target, and stacks with fire-lore?

This could be a solution. Adding another debuff to the class that is single target could compensate for the Fire-Lore and Frost-Lore nerfs in 3-man without making Loremaster too OP in raids. Especially if this debuff was created with the intent of it being useful in 3-mans but not so useful in raids. For example it can be a debuff that is stronger if there is a Bear pet tanking the target.

The problem is the contrast between the AoE when using Ancient Master and the single-target mode in other trees. They don't like that you can debuff a dozen mobs in a raid and then they are easy for a dozen players to mow down. But then players don't like that when fighting lower numbers of mobs, such as in 3-man or single/solo landscape, the debuffs are too low.

I disagree, this is not the problem. The reason Loremaster debuffs are so strong in raids is because you are debuffing for 12 people if you include yourself.

This means Armour/Mit/Incoming damage debuffs such as Ancient Craft will increase the DPS of everyone in the raid and therefore be much more useful than having 1 extra DPSer.

The same applies to Outgoing damage debuffs such as Fire-Lore. In a raid you are debuffing very strong Bosses that are damaging 10 people with aoe and doing massive damage to 2 tanks. Debuffing these bosses will have a much larger impact than simply bringing another healer or another dpser.


In a 3-man however, you are only debuffing for 3 people. Which means every debuff is far less valueable.