Update Minstrel heals

[Technician46]

Hi Devs,

I know you guys are busy so I'll get to the point.

Been playing Minstrel for a little while and have felt their heals are a little slow in general and underpowered overall. Given the morale bloat and harder hitting bosses and effects (bleeds and such) our healing hasn't been scaled to deal better with these mechanics in instances like FoKd, Remmo, Woe/Ago t4/5, SK t4/5 and Stairs t4/5 which have made these facts even more apparent. Even w/ the new updated greater Remmo set gear and the cloak from the festival which hardly reduces induction its still not enough healing to keep up with these instance (and yes I know they been nerfed a little and we can deal w/ them a little better now but I still contend the heals need buffing). Lots of group are having to taking 3 healers for FoKd and or at least 2 healer and a blue cappy for those extra heals. Two minstrels seem to have a harder time of it then a Bear and Minstrel for FoKd that should tell you something.

I BELIEVE ALL HEALING SKILLS NEED AT LEAST A 20% INCREASE IN GENERAL (in all lines) AND SKILLS EFFECTS NEED TO BE SCALED. Here are some examples of skills w/ effects that need to be scaled (the following information is w/ outgoing healing at 84.0% due to Remmo greater gear set):

1)Raise the Spirit: 15257 - 21795 morale, effect to fellowship (HoT):2107 -3009 every 2 secs for 6 secs - 20 meters. As you can see the HoT's are practically useless and duration extremely short.
a. Increase RtS by at least 20%
b. Increase HoTs to about 14 to 18K and extend duration to every 2 secs for about 16 secs.
c. Increase effect to about 25 meters

2)Bolster Courage: 37980 - 54256 morale, Effect to fellowship = 8626 - 12322 morale 1 time per use - 20 meters.
a. Increase BC by at least 20%
b. Increase effect to fellowship to about 25 - 32k morale 1 time per use
c. Increase effect to fellowship to about 25 meters

3)Improved Chord of Salvation: 45500 - 65000k morale - 12 meters, effect to fellowship = 4289 - 6126 morale 1 time per use - 30 meters
a. Increase ICoS by at least 20%
b. Increase ICoS heals to 30 meters (seem kind of odd that its 12 meters only and the effect to fellowship is 30 meters).
c. Increase effect to fellowship to about 15 - 20k morale
d. Keep effect to fellowship at 30 meters

4)Soliloquy of Spirit: 6296 - 8995 morale - every 3 secs for 45 secs. Adds phy/tact mits.
a. Increase heals by at least 20%
b. Increase HoT's to about 11 - 14k every 3 secs for 45 secs
c. Keep the rest as is.

5) Inspire fellows: - 4% incoming range/tact/melee - 30 sec, 26856 - 38366 morale.
a. Increase heals by at least 20%
b. keep the rest as is.

6)Triumphant Spirit: Effect to fellowship: 47421 - 67744 morale - 20 meters
a. Increase heals by at least 20%
b. increase effect to fellowship to 25 meters
c. keep the rest as is

7)Fellowship's Heart: Removes up to 3 fears effects, heals: 33024 - 47177 morale initially, effect to fellowship = 13354 - 19077 morale every 3 secs for 30 secs. 2min cd.
a. Increase initial heal by at least 20%
b. Increase effect to fellowship to about 22000 - 26000k morale every 3 secs for 30 secs
c. keep rest as is

8)Major Ballad:a bunch of effects to many to write down. Heals = 16356 applies to fellowship within 8 meters
a. Increase the heal by at least 25%
b. Increase effect to fellowship to 25 meters
c. Keep the rest as is

9)Perfect Ending (a finishing skill): 47249 - 67499 morale
a. Increase heal by at least 25%

10) Coda of Resonance: 51963 - 74233 morale, - 10% incoming damage - 12 sec duration , effect to fellowship = +5% incoming healing modifier - 30 meters - 30 sec duration.
a. Increase heal by at least 25%
b. Increase -10% icd to 15 secs duration.

This is just an example of the Minstrels blue line heals/buffs and some suggested increases/fixes (Increases are up for debate so any other suggestions would be appreciated). The heals and effect equally need looking at in their Yellow and Red line.

I hope this helps. Thanks

[subadar]

Well Minstrels are the only dedicated healing class in LOTRO, The one without any secondary raid role as dps or tank.

Why should they be the best healers? leave that to bears and RK's thx.

[Joedangod]

Well Minstrels are the only dedicated healing class in LOTRO, The one without any secondary raid role as dps or tank.

Err sure, Blue Minstrel is the only Minstrel traitline. Red (DPS) and Yellow (Support) definitely do not exist.

[Chris91]

There's 4 healing classes in the game

2 of them make up the 2 healing spot 95% of the time (or 2 of the 3 in case 3 healers are used) - those 2 classes are Mini and Bear

And you want to buff one of them? Despite the fact it's already a go to class?

2 Minis having a harder time than Mini+Bear isn't a bad thing, it's a good thing. Stacking the same class multiple times SHOULD perform a little lower than using 1 of each for synergies. If there is multiple classes performing one role and you want to pick the same one twice over mixing them that's a good indicator that class is OP (see yellow Cappy during Remmorchant)

Perfect balancing would be Mini/Bear = Mini/Cappy = Mini/RK = Bear/RK = Bear/Cappy = RK/Cappy > any double

[xadoor]

I think this thread boils down to the days of out healing stupidity are over. If you don't follow mechanics and meet the DPS check you are dead regardless of having the best healer (and I think thats a good thing). In days past with that horrendously overpowered Bolster Courage any dufus(including me) could heal stuff and a lot of mistakes could be BC'd away.

[xadoor]

I think this thread boils down to the days of out healing stupidity are over. If you don't follow mechanics and meet the DPS check you are dead regardless of having the best healer (and I think thats a good thing). In days past with that horrendously overpowered Bolster Courage any dufus(including me) could heal stuff and a lot of mistakes could be BC'd away.

[Technician46]

I think this thread boils down to the days of out healing stupidity are over. If you don't follow mechanics and meet the DPS check you are dead regardless of having the best healer (and I think thats a good thing). In days past with that horrendously overpowered Bolster Courage any dufus(including me) could heal stuff and a lot of mistakes could be BC'd away.

I agree that the days of out healing stupidity should be over and that that's a good thing. And yes Bolster Courage was overpowered in relation to the conditions back in the days when the morale of the tanks was half of what they are today and we didn't have todays mechanics including the diminishing of B/P/E. BUT CONDITIONS HAVE CHANGED, the morale of tanks have more then doubled, then add tank busting hits from bosses that can literally 1 shot the tank (Fokd, Remmo, Anvil, etc...) and other effects like bleeds that tier up over time or just straight out kill a tank in 3 secs if not mitigated (Stairs bleeds were over 1 million every 3 secs on t5. Not sure what they are now after update), multiple Fire and shadow dots on tank (Fokd and Thres respectively), puddles and dots that do % based morale damage every few secs (Woe and others), nerfs to debuffs, nerfs to b/p/e and the fact that minstrel heals haven't been significantly increase in a while creates a need to buff minstrel's heals.

If you think I'm kidding just look again at the fellowship heal effects of the Minstrel (see original post)...... they are a joke. Some are no bigger then a morale pot from lvl 95 in some cases. I mean just look at this:

RtS = 2107 -3009 every 2 secs for 6 secs

BC = 8626 - 12322 morale 1 time per use

ICoS = 4289 - 6126 morale 1 time per use

SoS = 6296 - 8995 morale

IF = 26856 - 38366 morale.

MB = 16356 applies to fellowship within 8 meters

These are just a few examples of what I mean and to suggest that minstrel heals are overpowered is just untrue. If anything you might think that Bear heals are overpowered but Minstrel heals definitely need to be looked at.

[Technician46]

Hello Devs,

I thought about starting a new thread but much of what I've mention previously still applies to this new expansion (Gundabad). I'm still contending minstrel heals need a boost for all the reasons I mention previously (see original post), specially now w/ the crazy amount of stuns and DoTs and the damage caused by them on higher tiers. It's absolutely ridiculous. I know w/ this new expansion the minstrels saw a little bit of a boost w/ the new traceries but its still not enough for this expansion. Also consider the fact that we've lost some of our healing potential due to our loss of gear set bonuses. We've lost a -24% induction reduction in our healing skills (-10% from Fokd gear, - 10% from remmo set, and -4% from festival cloak). Though we have a -10% induction tracery now, the speed at which we were healing before the expansion felt very natural and helped mitigate some of the minstrel's healing weakness but now (even w/ the -10% induction tracery) the minstrel heals are back to being very sluggish like before.

Before I summarize what I feel the minstrel needs there are three other observations I'd like to point out, one of which was mentioned recently on another thread. First, minstrel self heals on every trait line are pretty abysmal !!! We need better self heals. I think that part of the problem is just the poor "fellowship effcts" part of our heals, our heals in general and lack of meaninful HoTs. As I've mention on the original post (see above), the lack of HoTs, in particular the duration of "Raise the Spirits (every 2 secs for 6 secs......REALLY ?), the "Fellowship Effects" and their magnitude are down right TERRIBLE AND ABYSMAL compared to the damage taken !!!. I know the Devs' tried to help out by making our self bubble much larger but as always it seem you guys put a bandage instead of addressing the real issue, "the ministrel heals themselves"!!!. Don't get me wrong, the bubble is appreciated and helps but that's not the real problem. Secondly, I've observed that there is a delay between when our heals go off and the recipient actually receives it. I know the lag has been bad lately but that's not the issue though it doesn't help. The real problem is our sluggish heals are not actually healing the recipient until 1.5 to 2 secs later. You might say what's the big deal..... well it is a big deal if your heals aren't what they should be. Given the last few expansions ( tank busting hits, puddles, and now the insane amount of dots and stuns [many times when tank get's stunned the mobs attack us]) our healing/DoTs/Fellowship effects and their magnitude just aren't doing a well enough job and add to that sluggish heals and its a receipt for disaster. Thirdly, the new +10 ranged healing extension tracery, ONLY affecting RtS, BC, ICoS, and SoS (all single target heals) and none of our group heals that have a range on them ( IF, and Fh). Also if that wasn't bad enough the healing extension doesn't affect the "fellowship effects" of ANY of our heals. For example: ICoS ( Improved Chord of Salvation) originally had a fellowship effect of 12 meters only, after applying the extension tracery it remains the same. MB's (Major Ballad) fellowship effect was 8 meters but remains the same even after the extension tracery. This tracery has no affect on the "fellowship effect" part of our heals and on group heals w/ a range attached to them. Why?

To summarize:
1) increase the magnitude of all our heals
2) increase the magnitude of the "Fellowship Effects" of our heals
3) INCREASE THE HEALING SPEED (REDUCE INDUCTIONS TIME AND THE SPEED AT WHICH THE RECEPEINT ACTUALLY RECEIVES OUR HEALING)
4) Increase duration of RtS fellowship healing effect by at least 20 secs more
5) Increase MB's healing distance w/o the new tracery
6) have the new range healing extension tracery affect our group heals
7) have the new range healing extension tracery affect the "fellowship effects" of our heals

It is my hope that by summarizing, it will help the Devs more easily focus and target these area.
I'm looking forward to Devs/community thoughts and responses.... thks

P.S. Just the other day I was standing around just looking at my gear trying to figure out how I can maximize everything and a random Beorning decided to throw some heals on me for about a minute or 2, everyone of of his heals was over 30k everyone of them!!!. On the average my healing according to "Combat Analysis" I average somewhere in the mid 25k and that's with 80% outgoing healing and about 24% crit....... That means his average must be alot higher then 30k. Just saying.

[Zoroasterax]

P.S. Just the other day I was standing around just looking at my gear trying to figure out how I can maximize everything and a random Beorning decided to throw some heals on me for about a minute or 2, everyone of of his heals was over 30k everyone of them!!!. On the average my healing according to "Combat Analysis" I average somewhere in the mid 25k and that's with 80% outgoing healing and about 24% crit....... That means his average must be alot higher then 30k. Just saying.

If you do 25k ish on selfheals (is that HPS or single skill use?) you need to look at your rotation, also incoming healing of your toon is a factor. My minni is reasonably geared (DoP T5/AoD T5 but highest item level pieces go to my main LM, mostly golden traceries) and I parse 65k hps sustained on a 3 min house dummy. I get about 90-115k hps in AoD T5 3 man depending on group. And 180-200k in something like a 6 man Storva run.

[Zoroasterax]

Hi Devs,

I know you guys are busy so I'll get to the point.

Been playing Minstrel for a little while and have felt their heals are a little slow in general and underpowered overall. Given the morale bloat and harder hitting bosses and effects (bleeds and such) our healing hasn't been scaled to deal better with these mechanics in instances like FoKd, Remmo, Woe/Ago t4/5, SK t4/5 and Stairs t4/5 which have made these facts even more apparent. Even w/ the new updated greater Remmo set gear and the cloak from the festival which hardly reduces induction its still not enough healing to keep up with these instance (and yes I know they been nerfed a little and we can deal w/ them a little better now but I still contend the heals need buffing). Lots of group are having to taking 3 healers for FoKd and or at least 2 healer and a blue cappy for those extra heals. Two minstrels seem to have a harder time of it then a Bear and Minstrel for FoKd that should tell you something.

I BELIEVE ALL HEALING SKILLS NEED AT LEAST A 20% INCREASE IN GENERAL (in all lines) AND SKILLS EFFECTS NEED TO BE SCALED. Here are some examples of skills w/ effects that need to be scaled (the following information is w/ outgoing healing at 84.0% due to Remmo greater gear set):

1)Raise the Spirit: 15257 - 21795 morale,

Seems low, my minni does 20-30k

2)Bolster Courage: 37980 - 54256 morale,

My numbers; 47k-67k


3)Improved Chord of Salvation: 45500 - 65000k morale

My numbers; 61k-88k




5) Inspire fellows: - 4% incoming range/tact/melee - 30 sec, 26856 - 38366 morale.

My numbers;36k-51k

6)Triumphant Spirit: Effect to fellowship: 47421 - 67744 morale -

My numbers;61k-88k

7)Fellowship's Heart: Removes up to 3 fears effects, heals: 33024 - 47177 morale initially, effect to fellowship

My numbers; 41-59k, 15-22k HoT

8)Major Ballad:a bunch of effects to many to write down. Heals = 16356 applies to fellowship within 8 meters
a. Increase the heal by at least 25%
b. Increase effect to fellowship to 25 meters
c. Keep the rest as is

9)Perfect Ending (a finishing skill): 47249 - 67499 morale
a. Increase heal by at least 25%

10) Coda of Resonance: 51963 - 74233 morale, -

My numbers; 68-98k

This is just an example of the Minstrels blue line heals/buffs and some suggested increases/fixes (Increases are up for debate so any other suggestions would be appreciated). The heals and effect equally need looking at in their Yellow and Red line.

I hope this helps. Thanks

I posted my numbers in comparison; looks like you have something to win by looking at LI's and trait setup I have the 20% increase you seem to be looking for

[Technician46]

Hi Zoroasterax,

I think you may have misunderstood my post or maybe I wasn't to clear. On one of your post you mention having a 20% increase over my numbers, I think you missed the fact that the original post was made before Gundabad. The numbers in the original post was made when I was in tip top conditions, outgoing healing at 80% + (iirc) and crit rating at 30%. I know and I mention it on my post that in the Gundabad expansion we saw an increase but it still isn't good enough base on conditions we find ourselves in. Secondly, the average numbers I'm talking about according to Combat Analyses was not total HPS or single heals on self but an average of all my heals at any given moment. I realize that there many other factors involve such a outgoing healing, crit. rating, incoming heal %, any debuff put on the tank/group by mobs, etc... . But when I heals others I see my numbers stated over their heads and I often see very low numbers ranging from 3k - 15k, 20k - 50k, and less frequently 70k - 120k. Occasionally I'll have a 200k heal but that is rare. My point is that our heals need to be improved for all the reasonable reasons I mention.

[subadar]

like i said earlier when it comes to minnies, why is the games dedicated healing class not meta?

yellow mini buffs got nerfed. red minnie dps is not viable in raids. Minnies cant really off tank,

so that leaves healing. but beorns raidwide heals and the rk with the raid bubble leaves minis and the weak fellowship heals wanting.

its a shame my minnies just not that wanted anymore, so like alot of other players who dont happen to have a stable of toons that i can swap out to FOTM i'll just go play something else.

again i'm talking about top tier raid and instances not festivals or missions or t1 walkthroughs

[Technician46]

like i said earlier when it comes to minnies, why is the games dedicated healing class not meta?

yellow mini buffs got nerfed. red minnie dps is not viable in raids. Minnies cant really off tank,

so that leaves healing. but beorns raidwide heals and the rk with the raid bubble leaves minis and the weak fellowship heals wanting.

its a shame my minnies just not that wanted anymore, so like alot of other players who dont happen to have a stable of toons that i can swap out to FOTM i'll just go play something else.

again i'm talking about top tier raid and instances not festivals or missions or t1 walkthroughs

THIS EXACTLY. Its also been the problem w/ guard's verse captain AND STILL IS. Mini's as you've pointed are the only true healing class and yet their heals are lacking since before Gundabad. Its just that Anvil, Remmo, Fokd and let's hope not the up coming Gundabad raid that their deficiencies have become more and more apparent.

1) The speed at which they heal is sluggish.
2) The time between when they cast their heals and the recipient receives takes to long.
3) The heals in general need another boost.
4) The "fellowship effects" of each one of the heals are abysmal (Do u realize that ppls morale is over 600,000 now and tanks over a 1,000,000 and we are still shooting of heals at 3000 from fellowship effects?). HOW IS THIS OK ?
5) etc, etc, etc...... (see above for the complete list).

I've been frustrated w/ the guard/cappy situation for a long time and also w/ the mini in resent years my only 2 toons. You would think there are easy solution to implement specially w/ the minstrel (not so much w/ guard except by way of nerfing the captain's healing/rezzing abilities in their tank like) but they don't seem to understand, care or listen or maybe all. Either way the result is the same frustrated Minstrels and Guards.

[Frisco]

If you do 25k ish on selfheals (is that HPS or single skill use?) you need to look at your rotation, also incoming healing of your toon is a factor. My minni is reasonably geared (DoP T5/AoD T5 but highest item level pieces go to my main LM, mostly golden traceries) and I parse 65k hps sustained on a 3 min house dummy. I get about 90-115k hps in AoD T5 3 man depending on group. And 180-200k in something like a 6 man Storva run.

Yeah, I'm a little torn. That's a good HPS (at least it's about what I can heal myself for at the dummy), but on bear I can sustain 80k+, and RK 95k+. Of course, that's not counting bubbles, fellowship usefulness, or other utility. Right now I feel like Mini fellowship healing is pretty strong (poorly-scaled fellowship HoTs notwithstanding--when you can crit 50% on ballad heals for 60-70k that kind of makes up for it), but single-target could maybe use a small boost.

[Fureo]

Yeah, I'm a little torn. That's a good HPS (at least it's about what I can heal myself for at the dummy), but on bear I can sustain 80k+, and RK 95k+. Of course, that's not counting bubbles, fellowship usefulness, or other utility. Right now I feel like Mini fellowship healing is pretty strong (poorly-scaled fellowship HoTs notwithstanding--when you can crit 50% on ballad heals for 60-70k that kind of makes up for it), but single-target could maybe use a small boost.

Fellowship healing is definitely fine on Minstrel. I feel like ST healing is also pretty good and I think especially looking at the raid and a 2 healer setup. You want just that nice addition to Minstrel for ST HPS and debuffs.

I tried a dummy parse and this is what i ended up with. At 3min i was around 93k, but as you can see i timed out at 85k, after i needed to run out of the house to get outfight.
The average is okay i guess, Ofc the fellowship effects are pretty low, but you have so many group heals that an increase of BC for example is not that good of an idea. Even though old Mini at Todt and part of Abyss was OP, but don't rly necessary now.
From the 3 common healer classes I would rank Mini 1. RK 2. and Beorn 3 as the weakest

This is without bugged stance and I am at outgoing Cap, 27%crit and a base 0.9% inc healing as i am a Hobbit.
Edit: This is also with war anthem traiting, so i don't have "of all trades" skilled out to the max

[Frisco]

Fellowship healing is definitely fine on Minstrel. I feel like ST healing is also pretty good and I think especially looking at the raid and a 2 healer setup. You want just that nice addition to Minstrel for ST HPS and debuffs.

I tried a dummy parse and this is what i ended up with. At 3min i was around 93k, but as you can see i timed out at 85k, after i needed to run out of the house to get outfight.
The average is okay i guess, Ofc the fellowship effects are pretty low, but you have so many group heals that an increase of BC for example is not that good of an idea. Even though old Mini at Todt and part of Abyss was OP, but don't rly necessary now.
From the 3 common healer classes I would rank Mini 1. RK 2. and Beorn 3 as the weakest

This is without bugged stance and I am at outgoing Cap, 27%crit and a base 0.9% inc healing as i am a Hobbit.
Edit: This is also with war anthem traiting, so i don't have "of all trades" skilled out to the max

That's pretty good, though I think people with fully-geared bears and RKs could also improve on the numbers I mentioned above, as none of my healers are crit capped yet (Mini is in a similar trait setups to yours). That, and I tend to not use FH or TS in a single-target rotation so I can mimic combat situations where I'd be holding those for when I need group heals--I think if I popped those on cooldown I could bump numbers up, considering I use bear and RK AoE heals in their ST rotations, and with TS on a 33sec CD it can probably go into rotation anyway. My brain hasn't really let go of it being THE emergency heal for so many years.

Maybe that's why I don't feel handicapped in the T4/5 3-mans--because I *will* use TS just for one person if necessary, in practice, even if in theory I would rather not.

[Fureo]

That's pretty good, though I think people with fully-geared bears and RKs could also improve on the numbers I mentioned above, as none of my healers are crit capped yet (Mini is in a similar trait setups to yours). That, and I tend to not use FH or TS in a single-target rotation so I can mimic combat situations where I'd be holding those for when I need group heals--I think if I popped those on cooldown I could bump numbers up, considering I use bear and RK AoE heals in their ST rotations, and with TS on a 33sec CD it can probably go into rotation anyway. My brain hasn't really let go of it being THE emergency heal for so many years.

Maybe that's why I don't feel handicapped in the T4/5 3-mans--because I *will* use TS just for one person if necessary, in practice, even if in theory I would rather not.

Yeah I understand that if you don't want to use TS in a ST rotation, but in the end it's not that one big emergency heal anymore. I mostly tend to throw them on CD in 6man and raids, when you can really sweat for HPS. In 3man i hold them back until very needed.
In the last couple of years i feel like you don't need to wait with your big heals anymore. There isn't rly a benefit from holding them or just throwing them out. Pushing HPS didn't rly made a negative influence in success and in general isn't wasted. So I think in that case Mini has changed a lot.

[Technician46]

Fellowship healing is definitely fine on Minstrel. I feel like ST healing is also pretty good and I think especially looking at the raid and a 2 healer setup. You want just that nice addition to Minstrel for ST HPS and debuffs.

I tried a dummy parse and this is what i ended up with. At 3min i was around 93k, but as you can see i timed out at 85k, after i needed to run out of the house to get outfight.
The average is okay i guess, Ofc the fellowship effects are pretty low, but you have so many group heals that an increase of BC for example is not that good of an idea. Even though old Mini at Todt and part of Abyss was OP, but don't rly necessary now.
From the 3 common healer classes I would rank Mini 1. RK 2. and Beorn 3 as the weakest

This is without bugged stance and I am at outgoing Cap, 27%crit and a base 0.9% inc healing as i am a Hobbit.
Edit: This is also with war anthem traiting, so i don't have "of all trades" skilled out to the max

Hey Fureo, so I'm looking at your Combat Analysis (C.A.) numbers and it doesn't really tell us the whole story. For example what lvl were you when you posted these numbers? The reason it's important is that at lvl 130 we had the Remmo and the Fokd gear plus the festival cloak, all of which together reduced your induction by 24% plus added a 5% outgoing healing (which we don't have at lvl 140) meaning your healing abilities would be higher. Secondly and just as important, healing in front of a dummy is very different then healing a 12, 6 or 3 man instance. As I mention before over the last few years damage done to tanks and group have been much harsher and the morale of everyone has more then doubled. So I point out how inadequate minstrel healing has been for the last few years by referring to your own C.A. numbers. Lets look at your "Average Hits" under the "Normal Hit" column, its says your average normal hit(heal) was 28.361(morale healed) and your lowest was 6.764(morale healed), does anyone think this a adequate? I would absolutely say, "NO". Also keep in mind that according to you this was done with a dummy which doesn't take into account (besides all the things I've mention, tank busting hits, % morale based damage, ridiculous amount of stuns, obscene amount of DoTs and damage done by them) the FACT THAT IN THE NEW INSTANCES (Assault, Den and House of Rest) YOU CONSTANTLY HAVE TO BE MOVING. THOSE THAT PLAY MINSTREL KNOW THAT THERE ARE ONLY A FEW SKILLS THAT YOU CAN USE WHILE ON THE MOVE WHICH FURTHER REDUCES OUR HEALS. ADD TO THAT THE LACK OF HEALING DISTANCE MAJOR BALLAD HAS (one of our heals that can be used while moving [8 METERS ONLY AND NO THE TRACERY DOESN'T EXTEND IT'S RANGE]) AND OUR LACK OF ANY SIGNIFICANT HEALING DOTS AND UNDER SCALED "FELLOWSHIP EFFECT" AND ITS SPELLS GOOD LUCK HEALING WELL ENOUGH UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS, take an Rk or Bear instead.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Devs need to take a good look at the minstrel again and the guardian/cappy situation too (just sneaking that in the minstrel sub forum) and correct some of these issues I have brought up for the sake of better balance and fairness between the above mentioned classes.

P.S. maybe I'll post something in the Guardian sub forum regarding why cappies are and have been the preferred tanks again in the new gundabad instances even though they are not a main tanking classes like the Guard. Can anyone take a guess why (they can rez, heal and buff the group while tanking = overpowered) ? Or better yet just reread my previous post on that matter which still exist today.

[Fureo]

Hey Fureo, so I'm looking at your Combat Analysis (C.A.) numbers and it doesn't really tell us the whole story. For example what lvl were you when you posted these numbers? The reason it's important is that at lvl 130 we had the Remmo and the Fokd gear plus the festival cloak, all of which together reduced your induction by 24% plus added a 5% outgoing healing (which we don't have at lvl 140) meaning your healing abilities would be higher. Secondly and just as important, healing in front of a dummy is very different then healing a 12, 6 or 3 man instance. As I mention before over the last few years damage done to tanks and group have been much harsher and the morale of everyone has more then doubled. So I point out how inadequate minstrel healing has been for the last few years by referring to your own C.A. numbers. Lets look at your "Average Hits" under the "Normal Hit" column, its says your average normal hit(heal) was 28.361(morale healed) and your lowest was 6.764(morale healed), does anyone think this a adequate? I would absolutely say, "NO". Also keep in mind that according to you this was done with a dummy which doesn't take into account (besides all the things I've mention, tank busting hits, % morale based damage, ridiculous amount of stuns, obscene amount of DoTs and damage done by them) the FACT THAT IN THE NEW INSTANCES (Assault, Den and House of Rest) YOU CONSTANTLY HAVE TO BE MOVING. THOSE THAT PLAY MINSTREL KNOW THAT THERE ARE ONLY A FEW SKILLS THAT YOU CAN USE WHILE ON THE MOVE WHICH FURTHER REDUCES OUR HEALS. ADD TO THAT THE LACK OF HEALING DISTANCE MAJOR BALLAD HAS (one of our heals that can be used while moving [8 METERS ONLY AND NO THE TRACERY DOESN'T EXTEND IT'S RANGE]) AND OUR LACK OF ANY SIGNIFICANT HEALING DOTS AND UNDER SCALED "FELLOWSHIP EFFECT" AND ITS SPELLS GOOD LUCK HEALING WELL ENOUGH UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS, take an Rk or Bear instead.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Devs need to take a good look at the minstrel again and the guardian/cappy situation too (just sneaking that in the minstrel sub forum) and correct some of these issues I have brought up for the sake of better balance and fairness between the above mentioned classes.

P.S. maybe I'll post something in the Guardian sub forum regarding why cappies are and have been the preferred tanks again in the new gundabad instances even though they are not a main tanking classes like the Guard. Can anyone take a guess why (they can rez, heal and buff the group while tanking = overpowered) ? Or better yet just reread my previous post on that matter which still exist today.

LvL 140, no kind of old Gear...

I don't agree to a lot of things you said. The min heal you are complaining about results from one skill and that is CoS if you traited the 4 points. And there are more of those heals if there are more fellows around so you can still heal with that 30-40k non crit. The tooltip on that heal is the lowest by far and the next closest has already doubled that value. So i would say those healing numbers are alright and not rly absurd.
Next a Beorn has more trouble to heal those tank busting hits atm then any other healer.
Like i don't know what you are doing in those new instances, but there isn't a single fight, where i have to move unnecessary and it slows my rotation or healing output. There are enough group heals a Minstrel can use against Dot's, only they are not hots in return. I count myself to one of those jittery healers, which jump around and move because why not, moving and healing is not a problem I mean for that arguing sake, what should RK say if there is a fight where you have to move...

There are 7 abilities to heal where you can move around freely and 4 where you have to cast. (This does not include bubbles or CoC, Ioreth etc.) On of those casts is Fellowship heart, which is a skill you use, because you have planned it already and position yourself so it doesn't effect positioning. The other cast is RtS which i don't use besides after CoS and which has such a little induction, that u don't rly feel like standing still.

Also currently those big hits/dots we see in the instances are overtuned NPC sided and not our heals undertuned or so.

I honestly think that Minstrel is in a very fine state regarding numbers and is the best healer for current content. He was, is and hopefully will stay the reactive healer which has to see a little into the future to know what is right or wrong to do next.

[Frisco]

Hey Fureo, so I'm looking at your Combat Analysis (C.A.) numbers and it doesn't really tell us the whole story. For example what lvl were you when you posted these numbers? The reason it's important is that at lvl 130 we had the Remmo and the Fokd gear plus the festival cloak, all of which together reduced your induction by 24% plus added a 5% outgoing healing (which we don't have at lvl 140) meaning your healing abilities would be higher. Secondly and just as important, healing in front of a dummy is very different then healing a 12, 6 or 3 man instance. As I mention before over the last few years damage done to tanks and group have been much harsher and the morale of everyone has more then doubled. So I point out how inadequate minstrel healing has been for the last few years by referring to your own C.A. numbers. Lets look at your "Average Hits" under the "Normal Hit" column, its says your average normal hit(heal) was 28.361(morale healed) and your lowest was 6.764(morale healed), does anyone think this a adequate? I would absolutely say, "NO". Also keep in mind that according to you this was done with a dummy which doesn't take into account (besides all the things I've mention, tank busting hits, % morale based damage, ridiculous amount of stuns, obscene amount of DoTs and damage done by them) the FACT THAT IN THE NEW INSTANCES (Assault, Den and House of Rest) YOU CONSTANTLY HAVE TO BE MOVING. THOSE THAT PLAY MINSTREL KNOW THAT THERE ARE ONLY A FEW SKILLS THAT YOU CAN USE WHILE ON THE MOVE WHICH FURTHER REDUCES OUR HEALS. ADD TO THAT THE LACK OF HEALING DISTANCE MAJOR BALLAD HAS (one of our heals that can be used while moving [8 METERS ONLY AND NO THE TRACERY DOESN'T EXTEND IT'S RANGE]) AND OUR LACK OF ANY SIGNIFICANT HEALING DOTS AND UNDER SCALED "FELLOWSHIP EFFECT" AND ITS SPELLS GOOD LUCK HEALING WELL ENOUGH UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS, take an Rk or Bear instead.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Devs need to take a good look at the minstrel again and the guardian/cappy situation too (just sneaking that in the minstrel sub forum) and correct some of these issues I have brought up for the sake of better balance and fairness between the above mentioned classes.

P.S. maybe I'll post something in the Guardian sub forum regarding why cappies are and have been the preferred tanks again in the new gundabad instances even though they are not a main tanking classes like the Guard. Can anyone take a guess why (they can rez, heal and buff the group while tanking = overpowered) ? Or better yet just reread my previous post on that matter which still exist today.

I think I disagree with a bit of this, too. Minstrels are pretty good at healing on the move or with minimal feet-planting--and with regards to the new instances, they're far easier to heal with than bears, I've found. Healing with all 3 classes can be hectic at this point--that's not Minstrel-specific. Yes, morale has gone up disproportionately to player healing, but that's to be expected at the beginning of a level cap. RKs are a step ahead for a lot of encounters at the moment, but Minis are right behind them.

Also, I haven't found Captains to be better tanks for Gundabad. The Captain rez can be a helpful crutch for groups that are still progressing through the tiers, but Guards are far easier to heal and control fights with, given that their stun breakout skill is 15 seconds (compared to 30/40 for Captain/Bear). They can be far superior at maintaining their own health, leaving me free to focus on myself and DPS. A lot of the perception that Guards are inferior tanks is just a poor understanding of the class. Healers can pour heals into them like any other tank, and it can seem like it takes the same amount of work to keep them alive (without providing many tangible group utility), but they have so many skills to reduce incoming damage which they may never feel the need to use if they are constantly at full health. Guards need to learn how to take care of themselves at key moments of fights, and healers need to know when it's safe to leave them to their own devices for a while.

[Beltharas]

I also got the impression that minstrel heals are currently underpowered, but then I ran some content with some really good minis and realized that maybe I'm just not as good at the class as I need to be (my gear could use a bit more love too ). Increasing heals the way the OP describes runs a real risk of making it boring again; remember BC echoes? As it is, some less drastic tweaks to ST heals (BC is now very underwhelming) seem appropriate, but I wouldn't want healing T5 content to be easy.