Why Can't Champs Equip Shields Anymore?

[Strider5548]

Question for SSG, how come champs can't equip shields anymore? I know they used to be able to, but why not now?

The blue line is supposed to be the 'tank' line so I would think we want champs to be able to have shields. I can't see it making them OP in any way since their DPS will get destroyed, but would be nice to be able to swap to a shield to be more defensive when you need to.

[Nebless]

Are you sure they ever were able? I created my Champ about 10years ago and don't remember that as an option. It was always 2 handed weapons for him.

[Garan]

Are you sure they ever were able? I created my Champ about 10years ago and don't remember that as an option. It was always 2 handed weapons for him.

Champs used to be able to use Heavy Shields but the trait was removed back around September of 2011.

[JV216]

Champion shield use might make for an interesting capstone trait in blue line.

[BinaryTertiary]

if i remember correctly it was done to differentiate them from guardians and have had some slottable traits reflect that which is fine especially now that they gain so much from raw stats and trait trees

blue champs main problems are self-save skills (or lack thereof), uptimes on some skills and overcomplexity on worthless skills

a bit of streamlining would do wonders for them for sure

[HerrDave]

I would be absolutely ecstatic if SSG re-added shields to Champions!

Blue used to be my primary line before shields were stripped away

[Arabani]

Yes, champions could use shields before the infamous Helm's deep update. They could even use heavy/tower shileds with the corresponding trait.

I beliieve SSG still does not understand the significance of the damage they did to classes,thier balance and perfomance with the HD apocalypse.

For instance champions had to rely on shields when they needed to tank, or simply to survive. By removing the ability to use shields, champions just lost a huge part of thier survivability without any compensation.

The same is somewhat true for minstrels, who had the medium armor tait, Minstrels needed this extra 10% mitigation (and good BPE) to survive against mele foes. Once again, no compensation- 10 mitigation less nowdays. BPE does not even worth mentioning. From 40-45% to 5-10%.

Captains lost The Last Stand and Sheild of the Dunedain. Runekeepers lost several damage prevent baubles and Our Fates Entwinded. And so on and so forth.

Once again, the core problem of the nowdays classes lies in Helm's deep update, when the holistic, working pretty well, calsses were torn appart into three lines and their core abilities just randomly thrown into these lines. And unless SSG undertands it, returns most abilities and passives to the core kits of classes, and, basically, comes back to the holistic approach where trait lines are considered enchancements of a certain play style, rather then radical changes, we'll always have the mess we have now.

But judging from streams and posts, SSG does not recognise the issue and wants just "at least one working line for every class".

[thinx]

I guess the importance of *shields* is overrated and the problem is somewhere else - in the current skill/tree/ILI combination.

But looking at the shield: What do shields do?

• they provide blocking ability, which is also granted by 2-handed weapons (but only in tank lines).
• they provide stats

From tank perspective:

• Is the restriction of blocking to 2-handed weapons really the best way to do it? This would mean a 2-handed tank weapon would need to compensate the values of a current shield, which it doesn't.
• One could as well think about blocking for dual-wielding champs, parrying weapons have been designed in the real world too (parrying daggers and similar). Then "tank" offhand weapons could to the job.

There are 2 solutions: add higher/more defensive stats to 2-handed ILIs for champs (compensate shield) and/or unlock parrying for dual wielders in tank line.

What remains are the questions if these classes should have blocking in offensive trees and if champions should get shields for cosmetic reasons. I don't have an opinion about that.

On the other hand, the shield topic is IMO the least problem of champion tanks.

[ertr]

Yes, champions could use shields before the infamous Helm's deep update. They could even use heavy/tower shileds with the corresponding trait.

I beliieve SSG still does not understand the significance of the damage they did to classes,thier balance and perfomance with the HD apocalypse.

While the Helm's Deep update has a great many things to answer for, this particular change cannot be blamed on HD.

Champs lost their shield use with Rise of Isengard back in 2011, two years before HD was released.

In other words, Champions could use shields only during the first 4 years of the 14 years LOTRO have existed.

[TharbadThief]

While the Helm's Deep update has a great many things to answer for, this particular change cannot be blamed on HD.

Champs lost their shield use with Rise of Isengard back in 2011, two years before HD was released.

In other words, Champions could use shields only during the first 4 years of the 14 years LOTRO have existed.

That's correct, and the particular patch note was quite funny:

As champions can now only block with their faces, the deed for “At the Ready” has been altered to no longer require block; the skill will, instead, use Ebbing and Rising Ire to advance and will have a greatly reduced requirement.

https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Pat...ngard#Champion

[Tatharil]

While the Helm's Deep update has a great many things to answer for, this particular change cannot be blamed on HD.

Champs lost their shield use with Rise of Isengard back in 2011, two years before HD was released.

In other words, Champions could use shields only during the first 4 years of the 14 years LOTRO have existed.

But HD has to answer for the loss of hedge, which provided a huge armour and resistance bonus in blue line besides immunity to disarms

[Maximilan]

I guess the importance of *shields* is overrated and the problem is somewhere else - in the current skill/tree/ILI combination.

On the other hand, the shield topic is IMO the least problem of champion tanks.

I agree - the real problem is with the skill tree/ILI combo. It is not something I lost any sleep over when they removed the ability, heck I was not using one by that time anyway.

While the Helm's Deep update has a great many things to answer for, this particular change cannot be blamed on HD.

Champs lost their shield use with Rise of Isengard back in 2011, two years before HD was released.

In other words, Champions could use shields only during the first 4 years of the 14 years LOTRO have existed.

I'm glad some folks still remember when ...... so much has changed over the years, allot between RoI and HD.

[0987654321]

That's correct, and the particular patch note was quite funny:


https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Pat...ngard#Champion

reading those patch notes just made me sad.

as for not being able to use shields now, it could probably be brought back if they ever reworked blue line champ to have some useful surviviability

[Jungle_Boogy]

warriors used shields, not just tanks.

[Eilerdor]

There even was a classquest lv 30 for champions in Lone Lands, that offered a Heavy shield as reward named Garthathan. still have it, although they downsized it cause it was waaaay bigger back then and they look like some of those gondorian shields

[DKenny]

....I beliieve SSG still does not understand the significance of the damage they did to classes,thier balance and perfomance with the HD apocalypse......

They continue to do such damage under the name of "class balance". For example, hunter blue line was mutilated beyond recognition and yellow line ground into the dust completely for no good reason.

[BinaryTertiary]

They continue to do such damage under the name of "class balance". For example, hunter blue line was mutilated beyond recognition and yellow line ground into the dust completely for no good reason.

its been over 3 years and you're still salty like come on

its getting tiresome move on blue hunter was, by far, the most damaging dps spec we had in this game. even yellow rk wasnt as braindead as it was

[DKenny]

its been over 3 years and you're still salty like come on

its getting tiresome move on blue hunter was, by far, the most damaging dps spec we had in this game. even yellow rk wasnt as braindead as it was

Feel free to ignore my posts if you find them tiresome. Blue hunter was not the most damaging dps spec in the game from the time it was introduced with the HD trait trees until U19. It was the skewed way that the dps buff was done in U19 that made blue hunter OP. So they took something that worked fine and wasn't a problem (i.e. blue hunter as introduced with HD trait trees), broke it by making it OP in U19 and then destroyed it rather than fixing it during the "class balance" work. Yellow was also destroyed, although it had always been underpowered and was only ever useful for a very limited niche. The post I was initially replying to discussed the damage done to a number of other classes, although that seems not to have triggered a response from you.

[BinaryTertiary]

cut