Fraud happening in LOTRO store?

[Starbuck1771]

$19.99 for the standard edition of the expansion yet lotro store wants more then the 1600 points you get for the same cash value. Price gouging if you buy with points. Plus market is having issue when you try to buy there.

[SniperCT]

$19.99 for the standard edition of the expansion yet lotro store wants more then the 1600 points you get for the same cash value. Price gouging if you buy with points. Plus market is having issue when you try to buy there.

IMO, price gauging yes. Fraud no.

[Boraxxe]

$19.99 for the standard edition of the expansion yet lotro store wants more then the 1600 points you get for the same cash value. Price gouging if you buy with points. Plus market is having issue when you try to buy there.

I can get points for doing nothing while in-game.

I cannot get dollars while playing the game.

Points <> dollars.

Fraud is a strong word and somewhat inappropriate in this regard.

[Starbuck1771]

I can get points for doing nothing while in-game.

I cannot get dollars while playing the game.

Points <> dollars.

Fraud is a strong word and somewhat inappropriate in this regard.

The way in my opinion it's fraud is to get 1950 points you have to spend $28 plus tax for the points if you don't have them which is eight dollars more then the cost of the product almost a fifty percent profit via the scam marketing is pulling. To prove my point https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/.../english/fraud . Since they charge more then 1600 points they are claiming undue money for a profit.

[SniperCT]

The way in my opinion it's fraud is to get 1950 points you have to spend $28 plus tax for the points if you don't have them which is eight dollars more then the cost of the product almost a fifty percent profit via the scam marketing is pulling.

Still doesn't reach the high bar that is fraud.

Plus they have a point, you can earn those points in game by grinding it out.

[Omen_Kaizer]

It's not fraud and your opinion sucks.

[Starbuck1771]

It's not fraud and your opinion sucks.

Google is your friend it is the legal definition.

[Boraxxe]

Look, I can go into the game and after some considerable effort, I can amass 1600 points without spending a dime.

Points are not dollars.

[SniperCT]

Google is your friend it is the legal definition.

It's not fraud. But if you think it is, then report them.

[Gandolf_TheOld]

$19.99 for the standard edition of the expansion yet lotro store wants more then the 1600 points you get for the same cash value. Price gouging if you buy with points. Plus market is having issue when you try to buy there.

The way in my opinion it's fraud is to get 1950 points you have to spend $28 plus tax for the points if you don't have them which is eight dollars more then the cost of the product almost a fifty percent profit via the scam marketing is pulling. To prove my point https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/.../english/fraud . Since they charge more then 1600 points they are claiming undue money for a profit.

Since you are using the Dictionary as a source for the definition of Fraud, let us take a look at the 'Legal' definition of Fraud

Or according to Law.com https://dictionary.law.com/Default.a...d=fraud&type=1

To my understanding, the definition of fraud that matters in legal cases is the legal definition, not the language definition.

Thus, is what you say fraud? I doubt it. Is it Price Gouging? No. Where is the shortage that is causing people to panic buy at prices "...much higher than is considered reasonable or fair..."? (https://www.ncsl.org/research/financ...tatutes.aspx)?

Standing Stone Games owns it and, they can sell it for what they want and what the market will bear.

One must put their brain in gear before engaging their mouth.

[Tralfazz]

The way in my opinion it's fraud is to get 1950 points you have to spend $28 plus tax for the points if you don't have them which is eight dollars more then the cost of the product almost a fifty percent profit via the scam marketing is pulling. To prove my point https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/.../english/fraud . Since they charge more then 1600 points they are claiming undue money for a profit.

Your math isn't even right.

You can get 33,000 points for $200. All you have to do is be patient and wait for a sale. That's about 165 LP per dollar. There was a double-bonus LP sale just a week ago and the one before that was only a few months ago.

So with the patience to take advantage of a double-bonus LP sale, 1950 LP costs you $11.82. $11.82 is a lot less than $20.

It could be less than that if you were to exercise more patience and wait for a sale on the expansion, too.

As other people pointed out, you even get LP for free as you play and 500 LP sorta-kinda free every month as part of the VIP subscription.

But even if the expansion were to cost 10,000 LP in the in-game store and $5 in the web market, AND even if the only way to get LP were to buy them for cash and there were never any sales on LP; it still wouldn't be fraud. The prices are all publicly available, nothing is being hidden from you, and no deception with criminal intent = no fraud. The charge is ridiculous and I honestly don't even understand what your problem is. No one is forcing you to get the expansion – or play this game at all – let alone do so in the most inefficient way possible.

Spend your points – which you might have paid for, you might have earned with your time, or some combination of the two – or spend your money in whatever way makes the most sense to you. But if you choose an inefficient way, that is your choice and not the result of criminal deception on the part off SSG.

[DavidmeetHal]

https://www.google.com/search?q=frau...hrome&ie=UTF-8


"In the broadest sense, fraud can encompass any crime for gain that uses deception as its principal modus operandus. More specifically, fraud is defined by Black’s Law Dictionary as:


A knowing misrepresentation of the truth or concealment of a material fact to induce another to act to his or her detriment."

There is no deception. It is VERY clear that the expansion is cheaper in the Market than the Store. Very upfront and blatant.

And not only that, you can earn points in game and get the expansion for free.

You are falsely accusing a company of a crime.

[Braer]

I can get points for doing nothing while in-game.

I cannot get dollars while playing the game.

Points <> dollars.

Fraud is a strong word and somewhat inappropriate in this regard.

Well not through the game mechanics: You can use it to stream and get subs etc, put up a paint pad "donations" bar overlay and even put a link to a gofundme page in chat. All with SSG tacit approval I guess.

[SniperCT]

Well not through the game mechanics: You can use it to stream and get subs etc, put up a paint pad "donations" bar overlay and even put a link to a gofundme page in chat. All with SSG tacit approval I guess.

Not a thing unique to SSG in the slightest, and not at all what's being discussed.

[BinaryTertiary]

another post worthy of the clown brigade visit



there really should be an iq test to access these forums just to weed out the really asinine posts

[Braer]

Not a thing unique to SSG in the slightest, and not at all what's being discussed.

Only commenting how you can make dollars playing, just far enough removed from SSG.

Obviously the OP is not worth anyone's time.

[Starbuck1771]

https://www.google.com/search?q=frau...hrome&ie=UTF-8


"In the broadest sense, fraud can encompass any crime for gain that uses deception as its principal modus operandus. More specifically, fraud is defined by Black’s Law Dictionary as:


A knowing misrepresentation of the truth or concealment of a material fact to induce another to act to his or her detriment."

There is no deception. It is VERY clear that the expansion is cheaper in the Market than the Store. Very upfront and blatant.

And not only that, you can earn points in game and get the expansion for free.

You are falsely accusing a company of a crime.

Reread what you wrote there. Since you can buy points with cash they have a monetary value no matter how you got them. So therefore the expansion only has a value of 1600 via the store not the 1995 they are charging and they know it. Therefore they knowingly charge those using points more then the retail value of the game for wich they are also the vendor. But I guess thats what happens when your involved with Daybreak Games. God I miss the SOE days.

[Starbuck1771]

another post worthy of the clown brigade visit



there really should be an iq test to access these forums just to weed out the really asinine posts

Says the child with nothing constructive to post.

[Joedangod]

Therefore they knowingly charge those using points more then the retail value of the game for wich they are also the vendor.

Yes, because points are earnable in game. These currencies don't have a fixed conversion rate.

[Brinswith]

Reread what you wrote there. Since you can buy points with cash they have a monetary value no matter how you got them. So therefore the expansion only has a value of 1600 via the store not the 1995 they are charging and they know it. Therefore they knowingly charge those using points more then the retail value of the game for wich they are also the vendor. But I guess thats what happens when your involved with Daybreak Games. God I miss the SOE days.

SOE? Sony Online Entertainment? The same SOE that had John Smedley at the helm and took Star Wars Galaxies and ruined it in a way that drove customers away in their thousands? The same SOE that sold SWG players an expansion without telling them their entire game and characters would change beyond all recognition. All their hard work gone over night. Boiled down to the lowest denominator and 9 "iconic" classes. That SOE?

If you wish to pine for anything. pine for the days that Turbine used to actively engage with their community and the fans of Tolkien's work. The days when they asked people if they had got the feel of the shire right, what we would and wouldn't want to see in the game. Halcyon days when they really where "powered by their fans"

[Starbuck1771]

SOE? Sony Online Entertainment? The same SOE that had John Smedley at the helm and took Star Wars Galaxies and ruined it in a way that drove customers away in their thousands? The same SOE that sold SWG players an expansion without telling them their entire game and characters would change beyond all recognition. All their hard work gone over night. Boiled down to the lowest denominator and 9 "iconic" classes. That SOE?

If you wish to pine for anything. pine for the days that Turbine used to actively engage with their community and the fans of Tolkien's work. The days when they asked people if they had got the feel of the shire right, what we would and wouldn't want to see in the game. Halcyon days when they really where "powered by their fans"

Julio Torres of LucasArts was the one that made the call to destroy the game by implementing the NGE after only talking to one SOE employee about his idea's. That one employee eventually committed suicide. However in the end it was LA that made the call. As for Smed he is still in the business just not with the failed DBG

BTW Turbine went the way of SOE. Sold out by their parent company in this case Warner Brothers.

[istvana]

>It's not fraud and your opinion sucks.<

Commendably terse and quite accurate. Even the grossest of overpricing is not fraud. Even misconduct sufficient to void a transaction is not fraud unless it involves intentional conduct intended to mislead the buyer by giving him or her false information. Here, any buyer saw the price in cash if they looked at the market and saw the price in LP if they looked at the store and each price was exactly what was charged.

Fraud would have required something like the price actually charged being higher than the price shown or the item delivered being not the item advertised.

Saying SSG overcharged may, or may not, be accurate but it does not even *remotely* resemble "SSG committed fraud" which, by the way, may well constitute defamation. Although if SSG went after the OP for defamation the defense "the wording used was so inanely ridiculous that no reasonable person could take it seriously" might well prevail in court.

[Omen_Kaizer]

>It's not fraud and your opinion sucks.<

Commendably terse and quite accurate.

Thanks. Usually I love getting in the weeds, but I could smell the bad faith off this one.

[DavidmeetHal]

Reread what you wrote there. Since you can buy points with cash they have a monetary value no matter how you got them. So therefore the expansion only has a value of 1600 via the store not the 1995 they are charging and they know it. Therefore they knowingly charge those using points more then the retail value of the game for wich they are also the vendor. But I guess thats what happens when your involved with Daybreak Games. God I miss the SOE days.

And they are very upfront about it. Where does the fraud come in? I still see no deception of any kind. Just being unhappy with the payment model does not mean that they are commiting fraud.

[maartena]

Reread what you wrote there. Since you can buy points with cash they have a monetary value no matter how you got them. So therefore the expansion only has a value of 1600 via the store not the 1995 they are charging and they know it. Therefore they knowingly charge those using points more then the retail value of the game for wich they are also the vendor. But I guess thats what happens when your involved with Daybreak Games. God I miss the SOE days.

That is not any definition of fraud.

They have black Friday sales too, where the DOLLAR value is significantly less than the POINT value for the same product. And then they have expansion sales inside the Lotro store, where the POINTS value is significantly less than the DOLLAR value on the Lotro Market. These sales do not always come at the same time.

You as the player have a CHOICE! You can make all the points for absolutely no dollars spent, you can spend a few bucks to ADD points to your tally earned, or you can spent 100% all dollars (or euros, pounds, whatever) to get the thing you want.

NONE of this is fraud.

But if you think it IS fraud, I would suggest you hire a lawyer, let them investigate if they have a case, and let them give you a declaration you can post here. Let's not Google definitions, because Google is the land of a thousand opinions, but not always 100% accurate. Hire a lawyer. Let him do a writeup. Post that writeup here.