Lotro f2p experience more suitable for current MMO days

[spaltung]

I've mentioned in another post that the current state of f2p experience is an issue because it is very outdated compared to other MMO games that offer a better experience at their free trials. And not acknowledging this fact, means that most players that come to the game to check it, will be disappointed and will never stay, stick to the game or invest any money on it.

Personally I was about to drop the game until SSG offered free quest packs + 99LP for old expansions, which allowed me to explore more the game and I found it quite different, unique and worth it after a few levels in Moria (when you're introduced to new mechanics like LI system, new quest designs, more engaging areas and instances). So, I bought my gf some LP from the store so she could buy the expacs too.

To change this experience for f2p I was thinking that some of stuff that is already in Moria, could be added to the earlier stages of the game, this means:

- More intuitive quest designs, in which you can grab and deliver quests by killing a mob or interacting with an object in the open world (and not being attached to an NPC to grab or deliver all quests).

- Erase the chain quests that consist fundamentally in talking to dozens of NPCs from one place to another like ping-pong.

- Add a pre-LI system for lvls 40 to 50 (it could be called "Ancient items" or something like that, which allows you to Lv items up to 10 and imbue them with something else to get a taste of the LI system at earlier stages of the game). This AI thing could be added by finishing Aragorn quest chain on Evendim "The Blade That Was Broken".

- Potentially give access to the entire Volume 1 zones in the game (up until Angmar), maybe through making LP cost & pace more doable through casual grinding with 1 toon.

- Increase significantly the current difficulty for lvls 40 to 50 (so this thing "Ancient items" have any meaning within that, if the content it's easy, adding this pre-LI stuff will only make it more easier).


I think these changes will be significant at introducing new players into the game and some of its most valuable mechanics.

[DavidmeetHal]

- Erase the chain quests that consist fundamentally in talking to dozens of NPCs from one place to another like ping-pong.

.

I agree with most of what you said with the exception of this. A lot of those quest chains have role playing elements that I want to stay in game. It's not filler to keep people busy like WoW.

[Radhruin_EU]

- More intuitive quest designs, in which you can grab and deliver quests by killing a mob or interacting with an object in the open world (and not being attached to an NPC to grab or deliver all quests).

How is that more intuitive? It's downright cheesy to get quest rewards (other than purely 'game' things like xp) out of thin air. It's an RPG, you should expect to have to interact with NPCs and that's typical of the genre.

- Erase the chain quests that consist fundamentally in talking to dozens of NPCs from one place to another like ping-pong.

Offer some alternative, you can't expect them to just zap whole chunks of story.

[spaltung]

How is that more intuitive? It's downright cheesy to get quest rewards (other than purely 'game' things like xp) out of thin air. It's an RPG, you should expect to have to interact with NPCs and that's typical of the genre.

You can say that. That's why Ultima Online it's a 1995 mmorpg that is still intact in that way. Same as 1999 EverQuest.

None of which can be compared to modern MMORPGs such as ESO, World of Warcraft Shadowlands, Guild Wars 2 or New World.

Sure, you can go the first way, but, honestly.. how much population the first ones have compared to the second ones?


Try playing UO for 1 day /played and then try Guild Wars 2 or ESO for 1 day /played and you will see the difference between modern mmorpgs and old/outdated mmorpgs with old mechanics.

Offer some alternative, you can't expect them to just zap whole chunks of story.

Most of the story line for quests works on the side ways, meanwhile epic quests actually follow the main trail of the story.

[Harvain]

You can say that. That's why Ultima Online it's a 1995 mmorpg that is still intact in that way. Same as 1999 EverQuest.

None of which can be compared to modern MMORPGs such as ESO, World of Warcraft Shadowlands, Guild Wars 2 or New World.

Sure, you can go the first way, but, honestly.. how much population the first ones have compared to the second ones?


Try playing UO for 1 day /played and then try Guild Wars 2 or ESO for 1 day /played and you will see the difference between modern mmorpgs and old/outdated mmorpgs with old mechanics.



Most of the story line for quests works on the side ways, meanwhile epic quests actually follow the main trail of the story.

There is always a Regional Quest Line and Epic Quest Line (or other version of such).

Regional Quest Lines are like Tree Branches, there are stories that branch off from the main part but are always connected to the main Regional Quest Line.

These go alongside the Main Story be it the Epic Quest of the War of the Ring, Black Book of Mordor or The Legacy Of Durin And The Trials Of The Dwarves Quest Lines LOTRO has so far.

[spaltung]

There is always a Regional Quest Line and Epic Quest Line (or other version of such).

Regional Quest Lines are like Tree Branches, there are stories that branch off from the main part but are always connected to the main Regional Quest Line.

These go alongside the Main Story be it the Epic Quest of the War of the Ring, Black Book of Mordor or The Legacy Of Durin And The Trials Of The Dwarves Quest Lines LOTRO has so far.

It's not necessary to change any story. Just the quest mechanics that become repetitive, reiterative, dull and boring.

In Moria you explore a zone and boom, you are in a conflict territory that needs to be addressed by engaging with an object, monster or NPCs that need to be taken care of.

By finishing the task, you get the exp/LI exp/rep reward. This is really similar to GW2.


From lv 1 to 30, all quests are outdated and based in a pre-existing model and mechanics that were characterized by talking to 1 NPC, and then another, and then another, and then kill 3 things and then another NPC, like 1995 to 2010 mmorpgs.

[Harvain]

It's not necessary to change any story. Just the quest mechanics that become repetitive, reiterative, dull and boring.

In Moria you explore a zone and boom, you are in a conflict territory that needs to be addressed by engaging with an object, monster or NPCs that need to be taken care of.

By finishing the task, you get the exp/LI exp/rep reward. This is really similar to GW2.


From lv 1 to 30, all quests are outdated and based in a pre-existing model and mechanics that were characterized by talking to 1 NPC, and then another, and then another, and then kill 3 things and then another NPC, like 1995 to 2010 mmorpgs.

You can change things up and modernize them but SSG has to balance such while retaining the essences of what LOTRO has been since it's Launch in 2007.

Things are better now in later parts of the game where when you do the Regional & Main Quest Lines, they usually always have you progressing forward compared to various earlier parts of the game where you'd do X-1 and then travel X amount of distance to talk to an NPC to finish X-1 and then go back to the same spot of X-1 to now do X-2, so on and so forth.



Pretty much LOTRO how it is here before Update 30.3 & Update 31 is a History of LOTRO with it's gameplay. You can play from Level 1 to Level 130, from Northwest Eriador through to the feet of Mount Gundabad ahead of the upcoming Fate of Gundabad Expansion and see how things have transitioned over 14+ years of Development and how the ideas to go into said Development have progressed.

LOTRO does need to improve it's Level 1 to Level 60 Experience (Level 60 basically being the "wrap up point" for the Mines of Moria Expansion and LOTRO's first Expansion) to help better bring, retain and encourage Players that are New, Returning and Current to want to play said Content and all the Content beyond the Mines of Moria while also retaining the core essence of what the experience of said Levels and transitions are.



LOTRO is just in a peculiar state. We are soon to have a Key System: The Legendary Item System, have a brand new System come out with Update 30.3 and this will be a huge shift in how a majority of LOTRO is played from Level 50 onwards. This will need time to get things adjusted and stabilized.

If LOTRO does get it's Level 1 to 60 Content put into a better spot, then Level 61 to X would need such, then Level X to X and so on and so forth until getting to the more Modern way LOTRO has been developed. Which will take a lot of time, updates, feedback, so on and so forth.

LOTRO also is going into Late 2021 in a state of instability with all the changes coming and 2022 is being toted as a year of changes and instability as well.



Changes are needed but how said changes are handled will be just as important as anything being changed. Here soon with the start of key changes with Update 30.3 & Update 31 will show how LOTRO wraps up 2021 and how well change will be handled and received and what LOTRO's short and long term success might be.

[Radhruin_EU]

You can say that. That's why Ultima Online it's a 1995 mmorpg that is still intact in that way. Same as 1999 EverQuest.

None of which can be compared to modern MMORPGs such as ESO, World of Warcraft Shadowlands, Guild Wars 2 or New World.

Sure, you can go the first way, but, honestly.. how much population the first ones have compared to the second ones?

Try playing UO for 1 day /played and then try Guild Wars 2 or ESO for 1 day /played and you will see the difference between modern mmorpgs and old/outdated mmorpgs with old mechanics.

Ah right, so anything that includes the sort of obtrusively "gamey" mechanics you want is "modern", and anything that actually resembles an RPG rather than just being an action game with some RPG-style mechanics is "outdated". Gotcha,

Nothing that does what you described can rightly be called an RPG because getting quest rewards out of thin air is all "game" and no "RP". On top of that, LOTRO is a game from the same generation as classic WoW rather than the likes of UO or EQ (in other words, it's already a far more casual take on MMOs than those were). You're not comparing like with like; mechanically speaking, LOTRO followed in the footsteps of Asheron's Call 2 which had already moved away from old-school game mechanics.

Most of the story line for quests works on the side ways, meanwhile epic quests actually follow the main trail of the story.

Not an answer to what I said. As MMOs go this game has a lot of story (it's part of its character) and so it needs to be told somehow. Nobody's going to chop it all out just because you just want to kill stuff, so unless you can propose some alternative to the "go and talk to X" style of quest then you've really got nothing to offer there.

[spaltung]

Ah right, so anything that includes the sort of obtrusively "gamey" mechanics you want is "modern", and anything that actually resembles an RPG rather than just being an action game with some RPG-style mechanics is "outdated". Gotcha,

Nothing that does what you described can rightly be called an RPG because getting quest rewards out of thin air is all "game" and no "RP". On top of that, LOTRO is a game from the same generation as classic WoW rather than the likes of UO or EQ (in other words, it's already a far more casual take on MMOs than those were). You're not comparing like with like; mechanically speaking, LOTRO followed in the footsteps of Asheron's Call 2 which had already moved away from old-school game mechanics.

yeah, that's why i said 1995 to 2010 mmorpgs.

by 2010+ mmorpgs such as WoW changed the whole original leveling/questing from lv 1 to 60 by Cataclysm expansion, because they already knew the basic leveling/questing was outdated and needed change.

and we are talking about MMO - RPGs. not just RPGs. if you wanna talk rpgs, then, 1995 pokemon blue/red/yellow or zelda could enter in the same category.

Not an answer to what I said. As MMOs go this game has a lot of story (it's part of its character) and so it needs to be told somehow. Nobody's going to chop it all out just because you just want to kill stuff, so unless you can propose some alternative to the "go and talk to X" style of quest then you've really got nothing to offer there.

yeah, the "go and talk to X" is boring, and that's why it needs to be changed.

if you want a "talking to people" simulator just create one so you can play it by yourself for eternity.

[LagunaD2]

Nothing that does what you described can rightly be called an RPG because getting quest rewards out of thin air is all "game" and no "RP".

So what about bats, birds, etc that drop swords, pieces of plate armor or piles of coins?

Certain concessions to playability make the game less of a chore. In most RPGs, there is downtime "off-screen" between adventuring. A quest reward received "out of thin air" could be something your character actually receives later.

In the same way, a piece of armor, etc dropped by a small animal could be something you found nearby around the same time.

[DavidmeetHal]

yeah, the "go and talk to X" is boring, and that's why it needs to be changed.

if you want a "talking to people" simulator just create one so you can play it by yourself for eternity.

I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with this at all. Those npcs have dialogue that advance storylines. Rad is spot on when he says this is an RPG. And LOTRO is not an MMO in the way that you mean, it is an MMORPG, meaning an MMO with very strong role playing elements. LOTRO is a storyline centric game. Seriously, the storylines and lore are everything about this game. It's not a party game like WoW, thank god.

I agree with most of your suggestions, but not this one.

[spaltung]

I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with this at all. Those npcs have dialogue that advance storylines. Rad is spot on when he says this is an RPG. And LOTRO is not an MMO in the way that you mean, it is an MMORPG, meaning an MMO with very strong role playing elements. LOTRO is a storyline centric game. Seriously, the storylines and lore are everything about this game. It's not a party game like WoW, thank god.

I agree with most of your suggestions, but not this one.

That's okay, it's all about balance.

I think we all can agree that the QoL changes the game gets after lv 50+ are significantly better than the first 50 levels of the game.

And the suggestion only asserts that fact and motivates implementing those QoL changes to the first 50 levels of the game, so people that come up to try it don't get stucked in a 2007 version of the game that doesn't represent the current state of the game.

[Radhruin_EU]

yeah, that's why i said 1995 to 2010 mmorpgs.

by 2010+ mmorpgs such as WoW changed the whole original leveling/questing from lv 1 to 60 by Cataclysm expansion, because they already knew the basic leveling/questing was outdated and needed change.

and we are talking about MMO - RPGs. not just RPGs. if you wanna talk rpgs, then, 1995 pokemon blue/red/yellow or zelda could enter in the same category.

So what was the point of what you said, then? This game is not and never has been an old-school style MMORPG, so holding those up as an example of something that's outdated was meaningless. The point is that games like LOTRO aren't outdated per se other than technologically, because they'd already made the leap to having simplified, casual-friendly game mechanics and being aimed at a mass audience rather than being a niche product. Where LOTRO's obviously outdated now is in its game engine, but there's no fixing that. WoW's redo of 1-60 in Cataclysm was to freshen things up (they'd made significant technical improvements in the range of quests they could offer) and they needed to redo the landscape anyway to allow flying mounts in Azeroth. But the overall style of the game didn't change at that point so again, I don't see the relevance.

And no, you're really just talking about plain MMOGs rather than RPGs (MMO- or otherwise) in any meaningful sense because it's the "RP' bit you're taking out if all you want is to kill stuff and get rewarded on the fly without having to engage with NPCs. RPGs need some sort of story-based context for the gameplay - there's more to something being an RPG than just having RPG-style combat mechanics and character progression and spending your time grinding mobs 'just because'.

yeah, the "go and talk to X" is boring, and that's why it needs to be changed.

if you want a "talking to people" simulator just create one so you can play it by yourself for eternity.

You're still not making any practical suggestions as to how, though. The story isn't disposable here so a certain amount of NPC dialogue is inevitable. That;s where comparisons to WoW, ESO or anything else with a 'typical' generic fantasy setting fail. The devs here have to lean relatively hard on story-telling because that's this game's key selling-point, the whole Middle-earth thing. From time to time you'll see people on the forums here thanking the devs for how they've written a particular quest-line and that's something I don't recall seeing in other MMOs.

[Radhruin_EU]

So what about bats, birds, etc that drop swords, pieces of plate armor or piles of coins?

Certain concessions to playability make the game less of a chore. In most RPGs, there is downtime "off-screen" between adventuring. A quest reward received "out of thin air" could be something your character actually receives later.

In the same way, a piece of armor, etc dropped by a small animal could be something you found nearby around the same time.

Some concessions to playability, yes. That was the key difference between old-school MMORPGs and the later casual-friendly ones, so that for example the gameplay was streamlined so that you didn't have to rest between fights, didn't have to worry about nasty death penalties like XP loss and delevelling, or losing your stuff if you couldn't get to it in time, or having to group to get anything much done, or having to make a huge time commitment to progress, or having insanely long respawn timers on some mobs, or perma-gimping your character because of your initial stat allocation or skill choices, etc. All things that put the average gamer off playing MMORPGs, back in the day. But a quest reward out of thin air isn't the same sort of change - having to go see an NPC to get your reward is neither oppressive nor punishing like some of the hair-shirt stuff the old-school games included, and is never going to be a legit thing in an RPG because it isn't something you 'actually' receive later, you can use it and benefit from it straight away. It drops even the least pretence that the person you're playing as is a character in a world with some internal consistency or 'reality', and that''s a step too far.

(Also, not all games are so cavalier about loot tables for creatures as opposed to the sort of mobs which might carry or hoard valuables).

[wrath247]

Honestly, this thread is going in circles. TLDR at the bottom.


The point is basically this: LOTRO is at the end of the day a business venture, one that requires a lot more investment at the get go than most, if any, MMOs today.

Now u can say grind LP early or just make several characters, but the fact remains that we charge more than the standard today and the only reason we've gotten away with it for so long is because we have the LOTR IP. If we didn't we wouldn't still be here. To attract modern gamera means changing our pricing and sub model.

Now Idk about the whole rpg mechanics issue, too long so if anyone has a tldr just put it below, but yeah the older regions are fine with questing albeit could use streamlining like mirkwood + so backtracking is reduced; but overtlt it is still ok. The only issue would be the fact that the armor sets look awful, but at least imo is the only problem.

The whole talk to x or whatever shiz, is part of the worldbuilding, that they do it so often in SOA tho, yeah that's bs. I would say they should add a fast travel option that after talking to the npc, brings u asap to the next one. If anything it's convenient and lessens the frustration of having to travel back and forth across Eriador and Moria.



TLDR: LOTRO has all the elements needed to entice a market that is now into exploration, atmosphere, and the freedom of travel. Its difficult nowadays to find a game u can walk to one of the map without a loading screen. Hence the success of BOTW and GI in particular, the questing mechanics could use improvement (mostly for backtracking) and the prices and f2p experience and sub model should be improved (post-gundabad on any particular). But any changes that ought to be done, should be done soon otherwise the risk of this game failing when most of the older players die will increase.

[spaltung]

So what was the point of what you said, then? This game is not and never has been an old-school style MMORPG, so holding those up as an example of something that's outdated was meaningless. The point is that games like LOTRO aren't outdated per se other than technologically, because they'd already made the leap to having simplified, casual-friendly game mechanics and being aimed at a mass audience rather than being a niche product. Where LOTRO's obviously outdated now is in its game engine, but there's no fixing that. WoW's redo of 1-60 in Cataclysm was to freshen things up (they'd made significant technical improvements in the range of quests they could offer) and they needed to redo the landscape anyway to allow flying mounts in Azeroth. But the overall style of the game didn't change at that point so again, I don't see the relevance.

And no, you're really just talking about plain MMOGs rather than RPGs (MMO- or otherwise) in any meaningful sense because it's the "RP' bit you're taking out if all you want is to kill stuff and get rewarded on the fly without having to engage with NPCs. RPGs need some sort of story-based context for the gameplay - there's more to something being an RPG than just having RPG-style combat mechanics and character progression and spending your time grinding mobs 'just because'.

You were probably playing another MMORPG.

Cataclysm made a huge improvement in questing (following the same model they got from WoTLK).

WotLK quests differentiated hugely from TBC & Vanilla because you could actually use artifacts that had special abilities to finish specific quests or within raids (like Ulduar), such as mounting a giant to break heavy stuff and kill thousands of minions, or a flying undead dragon to burn a city with its abilities, or an airship to kill flying adds while throwing bombs into Icecrown citadel. All that kind of improvements were added to Cataclysm questing from 1 to 60 because they had the engine to do it.

LOTRO made huge improvements into the game core mechanics in the later part of the game, and the f2p model it's still the same as 14 years ago, so, you're talking nonsense.

You're still not making any practical suggestions as to how, though. The story isn't disposable here so a certain amount of NPC dialogue is inevitable. That;s where comparisons to WoW, ESO or anything else with a 'typical' generic fantasy setting fail. The devs here have to lean relatively hard on story-telling because that's this game's key selling-point, the whole Middle-earth thing. From time to time you'll see people on the forums here thanking the devs for how they've written a particular quest-line and that's something I don't recall seeing in other MMOs.

Sure. But if your only niche are LOTR fans & Roleplaying fans, that's a very small one.

Try checking RPing servers in major MMORPGs. They have the lowest population compared to any other server (PvP or PvE). That's because it's not a majority, and devs should be concerned to develop a game for MORE people, not LESS people.

[DavidmeetHal]

That's okay, it's all about balance.

I think we all can agree that the QoL changes the game gets after lv 50+ are significantly better than the first 50 levels of the game.

And the suggestion only asserts that fact and motivates implementing those QoL changes to the first 50 levels of the game, so people that come up to try it don't get stucked in a 2007 version of the game that doesn't represent the current state of the game.

And I'm im total agreement with the QoL changes that are needed in the first 50 levels. For example, one thing I HATE, and I mean HATE about the game before Moria is having you kill a lot of mobs to do something, and then the quest giver tells you to go back, sometimes 3 more times to the same place to do something different. They stopped doing that in Moria thank god.

[Radhruin_EU]

You were probably playing another MMORPG.

Cataclysm made a huge improvement in questing (following the same model they got from WoTLK).

I already said they'd made a bunch of technical improvements so they could do things with quests that they hadn't been able to do before. It's no good just airily waving at Cata and being all "look, they improved it" in such a vague, generalised way as if that somehow supports what you're saying in and of itself. It doesn't. because LOTRO hasn't stood still either although the game engine is obviously more limited and unlike Blizzard they didn't have huge wads of cash to throw at it.

Sure. But if your only niche are LOTR fans & Roleplaying fans, that's a very small one.

Try checking RPing servers in major MMORPGs. They have the lowest population compared to any other server (PvP or PvE). That's because it's not a majority, and devs should be concerned to develop a game for MORE people, not LESS people.

Just because you don't value the story doesn't mean that the only people who do are LOTR fans and RPers. That's a typical bad argument where you're trying to spin what you want as what the majority wants. The point remains, the story is this game's key selling point and it's not disposable. Unlike WoW where it was always a huge pile of nonsense, lore was just something they'd made up for the game and it got retconned whenever they felt like it so only the RP crowd really cared about it. So you're really not comparing like with like - taking that "who cares about the story" attitude that applies to most MMOs and applying it unthinkingly to LOTRO would only damage the game.

[hillard1959]

And I'm im total agreement with the QoL changes that are needed in the first 50 levels. For example, one thing I HATE, and I mean HATE about the game before Moria is having you kill a lot of mobs to do something, and then the quest giver tells you to go back, sometimes 3 more times to the same place to do something different. They stopped doing that in Moria thank god.

That's something that always drove me a little nuts, even when the game was new. "Oh, you back? Killed all 10 goblins, I see. Well, now go back there and kill their boss. Kay? Kay."

Me: "I WAS JUST THERE. The boss was right there. In fact, he was one of the 10 I killed. And now you want me to go kill him again?"

[thinx]

I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with this at all. Those npcs have dialogue that advance storylines. Rad is spot on when he says this is an RPG. And LOTRO is not an MMO in the way that you mean, it is an MMORPG, meaning an MMO with very strong role playing elements. LOTRO is a storyline centric game. Seriously, the storylines and lore are everything about this game. It's not a party game like WoW, thank god.

We do need NPCs to advance the stories, but we can clearly decide which and how many elements of these stories have been designed to present a story (with limited RPG) and which ones were designed to just consume time (even violating RPG). RPG should not be used to excuse quests that are time filler elements.

And I'm im total agreement with the QoL changes that are needed in the first 50 levels. For example, one thing I HATE, and I mean HATE about the game before Moria is having you kill a lot of mobs to do something, and then the quest giver tells you to go back, sometimes 3 more times to the same place to do something different. They stopped doing that in Moria thank god.

And this is exactly what I mean. There are hundreds of quests that do not make any sense. From an RPG perspective, our chars would question the NPC's sanity and start ignoring them. But these are the rails we have to follow, so we continue to play the quest. Obviously our chars are not smart enough to actually search the mobs they killed or to decide on their own to take the letter with commands (or the map) that is on the table nearby. Or to free the captives, because we need someone that tells us to do it. Or to kill the boss mob that is a threat for the whole country (we already killed him 5 minutes ago), but we need someone that *tells* us to do it.
In other cases, quest locations were deliberately placed on the other side of the map, in earlier times even without quick travel (e.g. Trollshaws/Angmar travel for the Amarthiel quest series).
I know a time filler when I see one.

It is not even about modernizing an RPG. Good questing with travel/objectives that made sense was present in RPGs even before 1990.

A true RPG warrior would drag the hobbit to the orc camp by his ears after being sent there for the 15th time to (finally) also get the umbrella of the hobbit's grandmother that is needed to support the war in Minas Tirith. And a minstrel would maybe try to help the poor little being to find sanity - instead of going to the camp.

[Gandolf_TheOld]

- Erase the chain quests that consist fundamentally in talking to dozens of NPCs from one place to another like ping-pong.

- Add a pre-LI system for lvls 40 to 50 (it could be called "Ancient items" or something like that, which allows you to Lv items up to 10 and imbue them with something else to get a taste of the LI system at earlier stages of the game). This AI thing could be added by finishing Aragorn quest chain on Evendim "The Blade That Was Broken".

Have you read the book(s)?

Remember, Lotro is built on and around the book(s). The FedX quests have been complained about for the past 10 years, that I know of. Tey have never been changed or eliminated, unless the story line they were a part of was changed or dropped. So, these annoying quests are here to stay, at least they do almost go away after Moria.

The LI system is scheduled to be completely replaced by a different system in the next patch or expansion.

[Gandolf_TheOld]

You can say that. That's why Ultima Online it's a 1995 mmorpg that is still intact in that way. Same as 1999 EverQuest.

None of which can be compared to modern MMORPGs such as ESO, World of Warcraft Shadowlands, Guild Wars 2 or New World.

Sure, you can go the first way, but, honestly.. how much population the first ones have compared to the second ones?


Try playing UO for 1 day /played and then try Guild Wars 2 or ESO for 1 day /played and you will see the difference between modern mmorpgs and old/outdated mmorpgs with old mechanics.



Most of the story line for quests works on the side ways, meanwhile epic quests actually follow the main trail of the story.

I seem to remember FedX quests in EverQuest, a couple have you run across the Antonica continent from Freeport to Qeynos, through Kithicor Forrest and High Pass Hold. Besides, EQ is still going strong 20+ years after initial release.

Tried GW and GW2 no depth, no real story, felt as deep as a comic book. LOTRO has story, has depth, is based upon a world-class literary work, The Lord of the Rings. While EverQuest, UO, GWs, WoW and many others are based upon ... nothing.

[Radhruin_EU]

It is not even about modernizing an RPG. Good questing with travel/objectives that made sense was present in RPGs even before 1990.

Got it in one, it's not about 'modernising' (whatever we might take that to mean), it's about avoiding dodgy quest design and that's nothing new.

My favourite example of "why are we doing this?" from early in the game is how anyone with a grain of sense would have grabbed Lalia by the scruff of her neck and marched (or carried!) her home, ignoring her protests. "No more nonsense from you young lady, your father's worried sick", and "Never mind your cloak either, if the wights catch you you'll be losing more than that!" and suchlike. Of course they could have had it that all the complaining about her lost cloak and/or cries of "Put me down!" would still have attracted unwelcome attention, but we'd have had more of a sense of agency and could always have just run away with a shrieking Lalia slung over one shoulder* (unheroic, but more practical - a trade-off between xp earned and having to fight).

*Could have been done metaphorically by having her as an inventory item, as if you'd stuffed her in a bag. "Small unhappy hobbit", stack size 1

[Gandolf_TheOld]

After reading this thread, it appears the OP is just trying to stir up trouble. If LOTRO is so bad to them, maybe they should go back to WoW, or ESO where things are so much better to them. After all, they only have around a 60-day investment in these forums.

To each their own...

[Gandolf_TheOld]

Got it in one, it's not about 'modernising' (whatever we might take that to mean), it's about avoiding dodgy quest design and that's nothing new.

My favourite example of "why are we doing this?" from early in the game is how anyone with a grain of sense would have grabbed Lalia by the scruff of her neck and marched (or carried!) her home, ignoring her protests. "No more nonsense from you young lady, your father's worried sick", and "Never mind your cloak either, if the wights catch you you'll be losing more than that!" and suchlike. Of course they could have had it that all the complaining about her lost cloak and/or cries of "Put me down!" would still have attracted unwelcome attention, but we'd have had more of a sense of agency and could always have just run away with a shrieking Lalia slung over one shoulder* (unheroic, but more practical - a trade-off between xp earned and having to fight).

*Could have been done metaphorically by having her as an inventory item, as if you'd stuffed her in a bag. "Small unhappy hobbit", stack size 1

+1