Lotro f2p experience more suitable for current MMO days

[DavidmeetHal]

Got it in one, it's not about 'modernising' (whatever we might take that to mean), it's about avoiding dodgy quest design and that's nothing new.

My favourite example of "why are we doing this?" from early in the game is how anyone with a grain of sense would have grabbed Lalia by the scruff of her neck and marched (or carried!) her home, ignoring her protests. "No more nonsense from you young lady, your father's worried sick", and "Never mind your cloak either, if the wights catch you you'll be losing more than that!" and suchlike. Of course they could have had it that all the complaining about her lost cloak and/or cries of "Put me down!" would still have attracted unwelcome attention, but we'd have had more of a sense of agency and could always have just run away with a shrieking Lalia slung over one shoulder* (unheroic, but more practical - a trade-off between xp earned and having to fight).

*Could have been done metaphorically by having her as an inventory item, as if you'd stuffed her in a bag. "Small unhappy hobbit", stack size 1

A favorite past time of mine is starting that quest and following her around and watching her die. It really brings a smile to my face after keeping her out of trouble so many times over the years.

One thing I never liked about Barrow Downs is the stranded family on Dead Man's Perch that is literally a gradual declining slope away from Bree which is in plain sight. "Oh no! We're stranded! We need to get back to Bree!"

[wrath247]

I seem to remember FedX quests in EverQuest, a couple have you run across the Antonica continent from Freeport to Qeynos, through Kithicor Forrest and High Pass Hold. Besides, EQ is still going strong 20+ years after initial release.

Tried GW and GW2 no depth, no real story, felt as deep as a comic book. LOTRO has story, has depth, is based upon a world-class literary work, The Lord of the Rings. While EverQuest, UO, GWs, WoW and many others are based upon ... nothing.

That's subjective tho. Very subjective.

And regardless of whether our plot is better or not, none of that would matter if we can't get new players to try the game.

This discussion essentially seems to be dominated by a "we're better or we don't need this" mentality. The main point tho at the end of the day is that some elements aged well, and some haven't. SOA while a seriously amazing plot, has u backtracking back and forth for god knows how long, same with Moria which itself is also an amazing story.

We can meet the middle-ground, have good story but at the very least make it easy to get between locations located at the farthest region. That would satisfy both parties. The backtracking for questing tho, yeah every MMO is a sinner here and frankly the easiest way would be just to increase the base speed of mounts and upgrade anyone who got the speed boost upgrade to a higher tier.

Simple, and this is a good point but as usual ppl who don't see the importance of these factors in retaining attention, insist that things as they are now are perfect. They aren't, and there are areas we excel and areas we could improve upon. That is a fact that even the new dev has already pointed out in different interviews.

[DavidmeetHal]

SOA while a seriously amazing plot, has u backtracking back and forth for god knows how long, same with Moria which itself is also an amazing story.

.

Even back in 2007 I hated that.

[Vilan]

One thing I never liked about Barrow Downs is the stranded family on Dead Man's Perch that is literally a gradual declining slope away from Bree which is in plain sight. "Oh no! We're stranded! We need to get back to Bree!"

This! How about you folks gently lower each other down the rocks? Even if you get hurt in the fall, seems better than waiting for the wights to get you. Bree is RIGHT THERE.

[spaltung]

After reading this thread, it appears the OP is just trying to stir up trouble. If LOTRO is so bad to them, maybe they should go back to WoW, or ESO where things are so much better to them. After all, they only have around a 60-day investment in these forums.

To each their own...

I'll say the same thing.

Most people here that are for #nochanges, are stucked in a tautological loop, which can be resumed by the sentence: "The game should be the way already is, because it had been the way it is".

That's really disappointing.

I'm not even discussing story, I'm talking about QUESTS, MECHANICS, and how they're presented.

Do Legendary Items system for leveling up weapons after Lv50 exists in Tolkien's books? No.

Do Ping-pong quests exist in Tolkien's books? No.

Do 60%+ of the stories told within quests and NPCs exist in Tolkien's books? No.


Most of the story line from quests has nothing to do with the "official" Tolkien's books Lotr/Hobbit/Silmarillion story. It's just content added up by devs that have some proximity to the Middle Earth lore, and it is not even needed to take it off (I'm not saying it should be dispensed with). What is needed is to renew and re-work current mechanics for the F2P system that it's hughly outdated and bad compared to the current pace of MMORPGs in 2021.

I hope this doesn't turn back to: "Game should be untouched because it always had been that way".

There are legendary servers, you know? You can play the 2007 version of the game from 1 to 50 without forcing everyone else to do it.


Even from a RPG prospective, NPCs and their quests should be gone after 14 years of thousands of adventurers doing it. Why every single NPC would need you to do the same thing you had been doing for them for the past 14 years?

And why are they standing 24/7 on the same spot asking for the same stuff for years? Do they sleep at all?

[Radhruin_EU]

One thing I never liked about Barrow Downs is the stranded family on Dead Man's Perch that is literally a gradual declining slope away from Bree which is in plain sight. "Oh no! We're stranded! We need to get back to Bree!"

Obviously the scale is a limitation but you think they'd put something in the way (a hill, trees, etc.) to block line of sight so you're not so readily struck struck by how close things like that are together. And the Barrow-downs were meant to be a fair hike from Bree (like maybe twenty miles or so) so a foolish young hobbit-girl couldn't have 'really' just walked there out of idle curiosity as if it were just down the road, if we were being realistic about it. She'd have needed to take more than just a cloak, that's for sure. And this isn't even in summer, either, it'd be October.

[Radhruin_EU]

I'll say the same thing.

Most people here that are for #nochanges, are stucked in a tautological loop, which can be resumed by the sentence: "The game should be the way already is, because it had been the way it is".

Not agreeing with your take on things isn't the same as saying no changes.

I'm not even discussing story, I'm talking about QUESTS, MECHANICS, and how they're presented.

While glossing over how what you suggested would put a major crimp in the game's ability to present its story, without suggesting any alternative mechanics for it do that. And then you wonder why people don't buy into it.

Even from a RPG prospective, NPCs and their quests should be gone after 14 years of thousands of adventurers doing it. Why every single NPC would need you to do the same thing you had been doing for them for the past 14 years?

And why are they standing 24/7 on the same spot asking for the same stuff for years? Do they sleep at all?

So it's typical MMO fare as far as that goes. Par for the course. And as for NPCs standing out in the rain 24/7/365, the reason they do that is that Joe Gamer would complain if NPCs weren't always in the same place so players can just run up, hand in their stuff and go back to killing stuff as fast as possible. Much the same attitude as you, in other words, seeing every minute not spent killing stuff as downtime to be avoided. It's always been possible to give NPCs more semblance of life, to have them wander around, go to a tavern at lunchtime, go home at night etc. but most players wouldn't want the inconvenience of having to go look for them. So the irony there is that what you're using as an example is that way because people like you wouldn't like it if it were more realistic. That's your 'modern' gameplay for you, convenience over immersion, so don't you dare complain.

[spaltung]

Not agreeing with your take on things isn't the same as saying no changes.


While glossing over how what you suggested would put a major crimp in the game's ability to present its story, without suggesting any alternative mechanics for it do that. And then you wonder why people don't buy into it.


So it's typical MMO fare as far as that goes. Par for the course. And as for NPCs standing out in the rain 24/7/365, the reason they do that is that Joe Gamer would complain if NPCs weren't always in the same place so players can just run up, hand in their stuff and go back to killing stuff as fast as possible. Much the same attitude as you, in other words, seeing every minute not spent killing stuff as downtime to be avoided. It's always been possible to give NPCs more semblance of life, to have them wander around, go to a tavern at lunchtime, go home at night etc. but most players wouldn't want the inconvenience of having to go look for them. So the irony there is that what you're using as an example is that way because people like you wouldn't like it if it were more realistic. That's your 'modern' gameplay for you, convenience over immersion, so don't you dare complain.

You pretend to be cleaver and reasonable, but you're just being hysterical and behind a reasonable mask, you try to transform my arguments into over-simplified generalizations just to make yourself look good.

Good luck with that bud. Have a good day.

[Harvain]

I'll say the same thing.

Most people here that are for #nochanges, are stucked in a tautological loop, which can be resumed by the sentence: "The game should be the way already is, because it had been the way it is".

That's really disappointing.

I'm not even discussing story, I'm talking about QUESTS, MECHANICS, and how they're presented.

It's not about no change but how change can be done.

Change just to change is not good.

Change done in a way to improve LOTRO but retain what LOTRO is would be for the best.



Now for LOTRO, the way they present everything is based on time periods. Every Region a Player enters has a set period of time where events occur (with some elements which can take place further in the future).

For example, every time you go to Bree in the Bree-Lands, you are back into Third Age 3018. This is how NPCs operate in any given location, they are in whatever set time period of the story. They haven't stood around for 14+ years, they've been in their own little time period up to X Day, Month & Year and if said NPC is used in other Regions, they can have moments in other time periods of the overall story.



The Legendary Servers are not the 2007 versions of LOTRO. They are Progression Servers which go through the Content of LOTRO but with the current version of the game. So if X is happening on Live Servers, X will be happening on the Legendary Servers.

Only Shadowfax & Treebeard Legendary Servers are unique due to the Landscape Difficulty Setting which can make Landscape Content more difficult if a Player so chooses.

[Radhruin_EU]

You pretend to be cleaver and reasonable, but you're just being hysterical and behind a reasonable mask, you try to transform my arguments into over-simplified generalizations just to make yourself look good.

Good luck with that bud. Have a good day.

I've been called many things, but 'hysterical' is a new one. Get a grip - your arguments *are* over-simplified generalisations, like how you strawmanned what people have been saying as '#nochanges'. That's entirely on you.

[DavidmeetHal]

I'll say the same thing.

Most people here that are for #nochanges, are stucked in a tautological loop, which can be resumed by the sentence: "The game should be the way already is, because it had been the way it is".

That's really disappointing.

I'm not even discussing story, I'm talking about QUESTS, MECHANICS, and how they're presented.

I think you're over reacting here. No one has their head in the sand saying "Lalala I am not listening to Jeffery, but he is still talking!".

From what I've read, the people that are disagreeing are stating their reasons why they don't agree. I haven't seen one person say that the game is fine the way it is, they just don't agree on your changes, that's all.

[spaltung]

I think you're over reacting here. No one has their head in the sand saying "Lalala I am not listening to Jeffery, but he is still talking!".

From what I've read, the people that are disagreeing are stating their reasons why they don't agree. I haven't seen one person say that the game is fine the way it is, they just don't agree on your changes, that's all.

Yeah, what strikes me as odd is that I've been talking fundamentally about adapting current mechanics (2010+) presented WITHIN the game to the older parts of the game (original Shadows of Angmar content).

But every argument against it was about the storyline (which I didn't even mention in the first place).

I'm seeing come backs that do not even belong to the discussion. It's like I'm talking to a wall.

If you guys wanna talk about the story line this isn't the post.

Mechanics and story line do not belong to each other. You can tell the SAME story within 1000 different mechanics for quests/game design.


For example, if Bingo Boffin forgot his shoes at a spider nest, THE WAY in which you continue and complete that quest do not require to change the storyline of Bingo losing his shoes at a spider nest.

[DavidmeetHal]

Yeah, what strikes me as odd is that I've been talking fundamentally about adapting current mechanics (2010+) presented WITHIN the game to the older parts of the game (original Shadows of Angmar content).

But every argument against it was about the storyline (which I didn't even mention in the first place).

I'm seeing come backs that do not even belong to the discussion. It's like I'm talking to a wall.

If you guys wanna talk about the story line this isn't the post.

Mechanics and story line do not belong to each other. You can tell the SAME story within 1000 different mechanics for quests/game design.


For example, if Bingo Boffin forgot his shoes at a spider nest, THE WAY in which you continue and complete that quest do not require to change the storyline of Bingo losing his shoes at a spider nest.

Uh uh. No. You were talking about one npc sending you to another, which is part of the mechanics, and it was stated several times that it's done that way to progress the storyline. Yes, you never mentioned the storyline, but it was explained to you why it's done that way.

Just because you don't like it does not mean that people are ignoring what you're saying.

You're also ignoring the fact that the people here agree with the majority of your suggestions, like the 2010+ mechanics being adapted to the older parts of the game. I'm 100% on board with you on that one.

[Hobbybauer]

For me, one of the real weaknesses of today's MMORPGs is that you're basically playing single player games, it's way too easy, way too fast, and that the games are and will be way too focused on end-game.

The principle that I play solo all the time and then get pushed into instances in the endgame and am supposed to understand that as the best content, I find terrible.

It's also the case that certain class concepts are difficult to impossible to play.
If I want to play a healer, I basically almost can't do that at all because it doesn't help anyone, myself or anyone else and just makes the game terribly burdensome for basically nothing.

Class concepts like CC classes or Supporters basically work poorly to not at all, simply because there is no function, no need and no necessity like that, not to mention the game experience is again greatly hampered... So they have more or less thrown out of the MMOs, which is once total fail.

And then such a game is not built on the experience around real character development further, but around items.
A pretty poor extension of the content. Instead of focusing around immersive and interesting skill development while incorporating the game world really well, I'm running after numbers and making stuff too, sparkly glittery stuff.

Along the way, this further leverages the professions and it all feels like irrelevance.

That's not how role-playing games, especially MMORPGs, work properly at all.
I put players in their personal single player quest tunnel and have them constantly scouring the game world for items, then have them run even more for items in instanced arenas in the end game and close off these areas instead of having it be an open world with open dungeons.

This development has gone completely wrong. Basically, MMORPGs have been heavily devalued and a very specific purpose has been introduced and everything hangs on these few silken threads, but the rest, which matters a lot, is more or less trash and feels like it.

And now I'm running all this solo as well and just don't feel good about it.
Instead of having interesting paths out of the game world itself, and focal points like class guild halls and trainers and strong development threads, a hard game world that encourages me to group play, I find myself in a spiral of running, working, paying and that rather bored and basically just alone.

No wonder nothing holds and binds me and I feel like a leaf in the wind. In the end I just leave the game and move on to the next game where the same thing awaits me.

Where have all the good MMORPGs gone?

A New World interests me just as little as any of these other shallow solo games with way too much action and speed and basically the idea of wanting to get by.

No.. I don't need anymore...had it for 15 years now and I say this development this way doesn't work.
Please again real MMORPGs and away from this endgame, numbers, items and completely exaggerated solo nonsense.

Away from sports games, away from instanced dungeon systems, to the open game world, also to open dungeons. And if that conflicts with player numbers, then servers with a maximum number of players to keep the game world functional and for the principle reasonably playable.

[DavidmeetHal]

The principle that I play solo all the time and then get pushed into instances in the endgame and am supposed to understand that as the best content, I find terrible.

I've got to say that I've never been pushed into instances at level cap, and I'm always solo.

There is a common misconception that MMORPG means grouping. I've been playing MMOs since 1998 and with the exception of EQ, I've always seen people doing their own thing solo. I never understood the belief that solo play should not be a major part of an MMO.


I like today's MMOs MUCH better than 20 years ago. Death penalties, corpse runs, player killing, griefing, and I don't see the amount of sheer player meanness that i did in 1998. Those days are gone, and good riddance. There is just no way I would ever go back.

[Radhruin_EU]

I've got to say that I've never been pushed into instances at level cap, and I'm always solo.

There is a common misconception that MMORPG means grouping. I've been playing MMOs since 1998 and with the exception of EQ, I've always seen people doing their own thing solo. I never understood the belief that solo play should not be a major part of an MMO.

I like today's MMOs MUCH better than 20 years ago. Death penalties, corpse runs, player killing, griefing, and I don't see the amount of sheer player meanness that i did in 1998. Those days are gone, and good riddance. There is just no way I would ever go back.

The thing is, though, that an MMO played always solo is going to be a bit rubbish as an RPG. I'll explain what I mean by that: in single-player and co-op multiplayer games, you can have a more richly interactive world where your actions can have persistent impact and your interactions with NPCs can include such things as branching conversation trees and outcomes based on rep, skill checks, or what that particular character thinks of you (which can be based on your previous interactions with them, etc.) which if done well makes for a nicely immersive experience.You don't get any of that in an MMO, as a rule. What you're getting instead is the opportunity to interact with, trade with and potentially group with a wide range of other players, to join a guild (or equivalent) and to take part in 'massive' multiplayer content such as raids. The thing about the ordinary quests in an MMO though is that while there are lots of them they're all really simplistic when it comes to their internal state, so by and large they're forgettable. Use of scripting in encounters is necessarily limited, and the more elaborate stuff tends to be in instanced raids. So if you're only ever solo then what you get is essentially a really simplistic single-player game where nothing 'sticks' beyond which quests you've done, except where the devs make use of phasing to change the apparent state of a zone for you.

Personally, I can't see the point of what you might call a "massively solo RPG' because it's the worst of both worlds - the simplistic questing and general non-persistence of an MMO, without the interplay with other player-characters that you get from grouping. And it also skews class design, as we've seen in LOTRO, where if every class is made to solo well then what group content there is becomes a bit rubbish too because class roles are blurred and there isn't the traditional interdependence that makes for an interesting group dynamic. The point isn't that soloing is bad, it's that an over-emphasis on soloing is. It eats the heart out of the game.

[DavidmeetHal]

The thing is, though, that an MMO played always solo is going to be a bit rubbish as an RPG. I'll explain what I mean by that: in single-player and co-op multiplayer games, you can have a more richly interactive world where your actions can have persistent impact and your interactions with NPCs can include such things as branching conversation trees and outcomes based on rep, skill checks, or what that particular character thinks of you (which can be based on your previous interactions with them, etc.) which if done well makes for a nicely immersive experience.You don't get any of that in an MMO, as a rule. What you're getting instead is the opportunity to interact with, trade with and potentially group with a wide range of other players, to join a guild (or equivalent) and to take part in 'massive' multiplayer content such as raids. The thing about the ordinary quests in an MMO though is that while there are lots of them they're all really simplistic when it comes to their internal state, so by and large they're forgettable. Use of scripting in encounters is necessarily limited, and the more elaborate stuff tends to be in instanced raids. So if you're only ever solo then what you get is essentially a really simplistic single-player game where nothing 'sticks' beyond which quests you've done, except where the devs make use of phasing to change the apparent state of a zone for you.

Personally, I can't see the point of what you might call a "massively solo RPG' because it's the worst of both worlds - the simplistic questing and general non-persistence of an MMO, without the interplay with other player-characters that you get from grouping. And it also skews class design, as we've seen in LOTRO, where if every class is made to solo well then what group content there is becomes a bit rubbish too because class roles are blurred and there isn't the traditional interdependence that makes for an interesting group dynamic. The point isn't that soloing is bad, it's that an over-emphasis on soloing is. It eats the heart out of the game.

And I agree with you 100% on everything that you said in your post. I just never agreed with the belief that there should be mandatory grouping.

[Radhruin_EU]

And I agree with you 100% on everything that you said in your post. I just never agreed with the belief that there should be mandatory grouping.

Not mandatory as such, but a certain amount of 'Group or Die' is a healthy thing to have.

[Hobbybauer]

Yes, you have recognized that well Radhruin.

MMORPGs are not solo games.

If someone thinks he now likes to run around alone all the time and that the world is so simple in the end, so that this works, is for me basically not a real MMORPG player.
He gets lost here in a genre that does not correspond to his nature and then forces his single player attitude on us.

MMORPGs, so that they can play at all their actual mechanics and values, must be at least 65-75% so built and that also felt by the hardness of the mobfights and the game world (speed down, not everything per Mounts übergehbar, heavy zones etc.), that group play is always more tempting and makes the game world more fun, than solo play. And the classes are then also so structured and serve their roles.

Solo play can and must exist to a certain extent. Also because of it, in order to find sometimes its peace, or if grad nobody finds itself, also the world a little at the edges and piece far into to play.
However, it can not be that the players in this genre to 90% and more run around alone and the game world thereby in all facets as MMORPG no longer works.
This goes through all content and also this end game and the thought that you have to get there immediately are not a solution as they are made, but they exacerbate this condition immensely.

It's not the point of a game like this to have some kind of arena competition at maximum level and carry items out.
This is just very cheap entertainment that is extremely easy to reproduce and basically keep people busy with a trivial spiral.
Partly, there is such a numbers war in certain MMORPGs that the com is still totally tearing each other apart.

Items have to come from the professions. There can also be items as rare finds that are then also good for something. However, they may not turn off the high-end profession items the air. They can be on the same level, but look special.

What it has to be about is the further character development also in the endgame of the talents and the skills and that is conveyed through the game world and embedded in the story and class-specific tasks and that over long difficult and cool quest series. Of course, this is slowed down to the point that it makes up the sense of the game, but doesn't feel like work and that you're slaving over it like you're possessed. It runs along and the game world incl. its players remains the focus.

There may well be dungeons, but they are open, where people find each other solo in the entrance area to groups and advance deeper.
There can also be certain end-game zones, which are then specially made to draw against the NPC main enemy of the game in a kind of permanent war. There it goes then really hot and the NPCs are very well worked out and have well scripted AI.
Castles and battles for land give bonuses for the home zones and you can also earn nice appearance items or things for your house. You penetrate the enemy zones, which then tell exciting stories far from home and can only be experienced there in all their cruelty and evil.

Who doesn't want to experience this as an RPG fan and incidentally find his character development and playing with his found friendships in the game, or like to take his randoms with him.

Thus, all the fun CC classes and supporter classes can also find their way back into these games and work excellently thanks to group play including role distribution.

The game world in the center thanks to the central mobfights, which always tends to be better to tackle things together with someone.

This permanent single-player existence is just terribly modest and doesn't let an MMORPG flourish.
And when all the mechanics don't work, like the professions that produce items, you find a lifeless, soulless, and dead game world that everyone wants to leave behind.

It can't be the standard in an MMORPG to have to force yourself to play in a group.
It has to demand it.

And one more thing blocks these mechanics tremendously and that is this quest design.
You immediately separate players as soon as you put them in this quest jungle.

No one wants to play with someone if they are not at the same level in the tasks. Most people are like in a tunnel and just run through these tasks. You don't perceive the game world as an adventure anymore, you work these tasks off like you're in an office.
The quest design needs a big change and it also needs an expansion of the possibilities to find a task away from quests. Above all, more connected to the adventure and exploration, less with quest goals and then pass again and travel / run all the time just through the area.... How should such a group game come about and how do you want to make NPCs reasonable if they are only there to be slaughtered with a few blows?

All this does not fit together and the development that MMORPGs have taken, leaves a pile of broken pieces.
The MMORPG genre is basically dead. There is only the same thing over and over again in a new color and that is solo play, and endgame.
Boring and unnecessary and just not a good MMORPG.

Yes long text, but that's part of it

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

[DavidmeetHal]

The MMORPG genre is basically dead. There is only the same thing over and over again in a new color and that is solo play, and endgame.
Boring and unnecessary and just not a good MMORPG.

I'm not bored with this game, and I play solo. I'm not the least bit interested in group play. I hate group play in instances, not my bag of tea.

I'm here for the storylines, both landscape and epic. And I love decorating my houses, all 7 of them(one in a Shire neighborhood, and 6 in Belfalas).

I have no problem with other people liking pvp and group instances. Other people love that stuff, and more power to them.

But it is highly inaccurate to label solo play boring and unnecessary.

If you mean 20 years ago when you say the MMORPG is dead, I say good riddance. I hated the clannish player mentality of the day. Today's MMOs have a much more casual playerbase than in the past, and quite frankly, they are much more pleasant to talk to. I'll take today's MMOs over 20 years ago any day of the week.

[wispsong]

yeah, that's why i said 1995 to 2010 mmorpgs.

by 2010+ mmorpgs such as WoW changed the whole original leveling/questing from lv 1 to 60 by Cataclysm expansion, because they already knew the basic leveling/questing was outdated and needed change.

and we are talking about MMO - RPGs. not just RPGs. if you wanna talk rpgs, then, 1995 pokemon blue/red/yellow or zelda could enter in the same category.




yeah, the "go and talk to X" is boring, and that's why it needs to be changed.

if you want a "talking to people" simulator just create one so you can play it by yourself for eternity.

You know, you can SKIP quests, right. Nobody says you have to do every single quest in this game. You can even skip whole regions and xpacs and still level comfortably. Four Eriador zones and the epic are enough to get you to 50 for example. Maybe Shadowfax is for you due to even faster then normal levelling. But not many Lotro players have chosen that experience.

[spaltung]

You know, you can SKIP quests, right. Nobody says you have to do every single quest in this game. You can even skip whole regions and xpacs and still level comfortably. Four Eriador zones and the epic are enough to get you to 50 for example. Maybe Shadowfax is for you due to even faster then normal levelling. But not many Lotro players have chosen that experience.

fair enough. but you only get to skip areas once you already know them, and if you're a new player into the game, you usually get driven by NPCs and quests. you do not skip them unless you've already finished most of the quests a couple of times.

[Froyo_K_Baggins]

MMORPGs are not solo games.

So sayeth somebody uncomfortable with being on his own.

In reality, the strength of an MMO is the world. If it's an interesting world, with thought put into it, some will prefer raiding and others solo and the story line. Neither is right or wrong. I raided through DA, when the grind became too annoying. However, I was never just a raider. I work (gasp!), that makes raiding hard. In my free time, it's fun to go into a world, wander around, and see what's up.

MMO's are also good for altaholics. I don't have to raid. It's fun to see how to figure out different strategies and tactics for the same area based on different classes.

The problem is that SSG has focused on folks such as you, rather than remaining balanced. It's why they've lost so many players.

[Radhruin_EU]

So sayeth somebody uncomfortable with being on his own.

So sayeth someone who reads too much into how people play multiplayer games. I'm entirely comfortable with my own company but like Hobbyhauer I recognise that it's natural for MMOs to reflect the old adage that no man is an island, and that MMOs derive from pen-and-paper games where mutual interdependence and grouping was the default and hence that playing an MMO solo should have its limitations.

The strength of an MMO is its content, it lives or dies by that - t doesn't matter how interesting the world is if the content it features is lacklustre. The game-world of an MMO is typically rather hollow and non-interactive so beyond nice vistas and hidden PoIs, where they exist, there really isn't that much to find. Not like a well-crafted single-player game where there can be tons of secrets to ferret out.

The problem is that SSG has focused on folks such as you, rather than remaining balanced. It's why they've lost so many players.

What on earth is your idea of balance, then? Because if you think this game is skewed like that then I have no idea what you're comparing it to.

[vladtheimplementor]

In those other MMORPG 'Intros' Do they push you instantly (as an option) to a high level all equipped (and clueless about the game mechanics/tactics/everything) ??

I don't see in a game as complex as LOTRO how that would work (maybe the other MMORPGs are more dumbed-down and you just Mash buttons in most situations ??)
The LOTRO management arent going to vastly shift the way the game works just for Intros. What you get in the initial LOTRO tutorial scenarios IS largely what you get across the content to level 130