Maybe...So Long and Thanks for all the Fun

[Wisen]

It's been a fun time for most of it...and I hope to go on further but with continued connection to logon server problems and the LI change now looking to be worse in my opinion (and I may be wrong certainly) expending more time and funds may not be warranted in my case. I have been around with a few breaks since beta, but with the increasing lack of enjoyment due to technical issue that do not seem to plague other popular MMOs - read this as trying to work around the specific needs of the system with ports and firewalls is getting old, doesn't always work and seems to come back to haunt at times just from simple network changes.

I realize this is unlikely to affect any decisions at SSG and it may not be possible to fix the things that are most annoying to some of us, but not saying something does little good either.

This is not said to encourage others to do the same, nor to spark debate or annoyance. It is only meant as one small comment that might or might not help decisions makers understand why this double life account holder is likely to not purchase any more store items, coins or to be logging into the servers much if I am ever able to again.

Likely - so long and thanks for all the fun and adventures.

[Harvain]

Fare thee well and remember, don't burn your ship wherever you might go, we'll still be here for a time

[Sovereign50]

Fare thee well and remember, don't burn your ship wherever you might go, we'll still be here for a time

The ship is already burning. It's a matter of degrees as to whether you see the ship as existing as a flaming hulk ("LOTRO IS DYING!!!!") or simply riddled with spot fires (i.e. bugs, alongside a plethora of other issues, are the termites decaying the wooden framework).

The Tale of the Shipwrecked Mariners:
"We turned our backs to the flames, embracing the open sea and the scent of saltwater. We allowed our minds to wander towards thoughts of hearth and home, despite both being long past and impossibly distant. Such efforts were naught but folly!! We remained haunted by flickering lights dancing upon the waves and were increasingly overwhelmed by the acrid smell of smoke. Our thoughts quickly succumbed to meandering in the twilight between reality and fantasy, unwittingly lost to both."

-Captain Aranhir, on how the Gilminuial was truly lost.

Perhaps a nice pirate hat cosmetic will help you to forget all this?

[DroboTheDwarf]

To the OP I feel your pain.

As a player that has been a sub for 80% of the last 10+ years I am considering a long break too, for most of the same reasons.

I am tired of bug ridden expansions that SSG expects up to pay 40 - 129 for. I am tired of them messing with systems and making them worse, or at least not much better (Horrid LI Revamp release).

Then there are the countless QOL improvements that need to be made. The fact that they do not address bugged systems and keep pumping out content. The fact they do not listen to their player base very well in regards to the game in general. There are several games out there they could take a page from in regards to communication, and player outreach. They could send out surveys to their player base about events, what their thoughts were, what they could do better, etc.

Then there is the fact they need to get better at QA and address a lot of these bugs before it even gets to Bullroarer and they need set stricter standards for players who access bullroarer and what they are expected to do, instead of some folks who get on there just to get first access to the new content.

For me, there needs to be something else for casual solo players at end game instead of the expectation of having to waste hours "gearing up" and then spend hours raiding (which i have no time for), plus dailies and missions. Repetitive, monotonous actions that offer little satisfaction or reward.

Lastly, a complete lack of in game support. I have a ticket that has been open almost a month....

After this sub lapses I think I will be taking my dollars elsewhere for a while, still logging in to keep the account active but that is it, I am done spending money on the game till i see some positive change.

[welden]

I too have been rather unhappy with this game. I quite it in 2020 before the pandemic hit full swing. I am now back only because I have invested so much time into this game. (Started playing June 2007). I have tried a few other games but at this point I am not really interested in being tied to some guild or group in some new game. I play now only for relaxation from life and work. Even with all its flaws I am still able to log on and do a few quests, craft a few things and explore some new and old spaces and this suffices.

I would even spend money again if I was enticed enough by their marketing department to do so but the sales I have seen since coming back at the end of October have not been that enticing. Now, if they would have chosen to put Minas Morgul and the War of Three Peaks on the same sale they had during Thanksgiving I might have caved and bought it this time around. But no, they went from 85% to 75% and 60% to 50% discount respectively, effectively losing a sale or my sale at least. (I am not going to spend more money than what I could have just weeks ago. I don't look at their expansions as some sort of stock that somehow increases in value?)

Anyway, I do feel for those who are struggling with this game. It is my sincere hope that SSG will not continue to ignore you or are even at this time planning to show some badly needed support in your direction.

The one thing that they do have going for them and the main reason I am still here is this: JRR Tolkien's Middle Earth!

[Fadil]

It's been a fun time for most of it...and I hope to go on further but with continued connection to logon server problems and the LI change now looking to be worse in my opinion (and I may be wrong certainly) expending more time and funds may not be warranted in my case. I have been around with a few breaks since beta, but with the increasing lack of enjoyment due to technical issue that do not seem to plague other popular MMOs - read this as trying to work around the specific needs of the system with ports and firewalls is getting old, doesn't always work and seems to come back to haunt at times just from simple network changes.

I realize this is unlikely to affect any decisions at SSG and it may not be possible to fix the things that are most annoying to some of us, but not saying something does little good either.

This is not said to encourage others to do the same, nor to spark debate or annoyance. It is only meant as one small comment that might or might not help decisions makers understand why this double life account holder is likely to not purchase any more store items, coins or to be logging into the servers much if I am ever able to again.

Likely - so long and thanks for all the fun and adventures.

It sounds like you're having connection problems (firewall/ ports) which most of us don't experience. I mean: if you cant connect, I can see how you're not enjoining the game.:P
For the rest: Everyone's entitled to their opinions, but imo the new LI system is a HUGE improvement.
I disliked the old system from the first day it was implemented. I still remember the endless time spent in Moria, doing instances and having to spend hours to get better relics, to the endless dailies in Minas for scrolls.
On one character that endless grind was one thing, on more than one character it was disgusting.
The current system is better, simpler, and far less grindy than the old system.
I also very much enjoy how the secondary stat on many traceries contribute to your character's general build and how you can tweak that.
But in the end: more time to actually enjoy the game, less time to have to do endless mindless dailies.

Anyway: I hope you can find a solution for your technical problem, or find a better game.

[Occum]

Yeah, all good things....

LOTRO has consumed far too much of my time (in a good way) for 14 years, with a year or so off in the middle. I always have been mainly solo. And I've played slowly, always at least a year (usually 2) behind the latest content. Even though that excludes me from much of the content and rewards, I have accepted that because what I CAN do has been more than enough.

This is because it has been a great game that has been true to the source material. I've hit bumps - - the first was when I reached endgame in SoA when everything was group content and everyone had moved on - - but they eventually fixed that so it was soloable. The second was "Big Battles" but I got through that. The third was the new LI imbued system, but I was early into the LI process at that point and I adapted...

...adapted too well it seems. When SSG applied level caps to scrolls a while back I figured that while other LI changes would be coming, there was no way they'd waste resources on doing that unless the basic LI system was going to be tweaked but essentially remain the same. LI leveling/reforging/deconstructing and grinding for scrolls and crystals on my main (with a tortoise stone), and managing shards for scrolls, became a mini-game and it had a purpose ... I worked up the means to immediately equip alts with powerful LIs even though it might make them overpowered - - - who cares?...I'm a solo player and did the grind with my main and didn't want to do it again...who or what would I be hurting?? I could enjoy the content grind-free on alts, immerse myself in the world again without focusing on mechanics.

Well, so much for that trust.

Now none of that stuff is worth much. Some "reward track" is coming...great. Trade-ins are pathetic relative to what those items did previously. I now see that my largest IXP runes now have minimum levels for use and my main is only lvl 127.

OK well...everything has to come to an end and evolve into something else. The original epic was and is the best game I've ever played. And SSG did a great job of extending the storyline after the fall of Mordor. I thought the Mordor expansion was cool with the old Sauron lieutenants fighting each other, and recognizing that just killing Sauron didn't mean nasty stuff was gone for good. I liked the allegiance groups back then. It was also good to wrap up some storylines in northern Mirkwood and Dale Land. I even remembered mention of the Iron Hills from the books so I was interested in going there. The flashbacks to old Mordor were cool. But I'm not really interested anymore in different groups of dwarfs bickering with each other and frankly lost track of which group is which. I don't even know what Gundabad is, and don't have the desire to look it up.

LOTRO has moved into being a different MMO with its own lore that I'm not interested in anymore. The game's story was always hindered by its defined endpoint, and it did an admirable job of going beyond that for a while. But more importantly to me, it's now a more contemporary MMO with respect to grinding and micro-payments and focus on end-game. I can't comment on the depth of the story anymore because, as I said, I'm not interested in it. I get that. I'm not bashing the game or SSG, because games like this have to change. But the people playing them for over a decade change as well. I hope that they attract a meaningful number of new players but I'm not optimistic about that. My two early-twenties daughters love LOTR, but neither has any interest in playing this game even with me promoting it for 10 years, and even after I paid for a VIP account for one for 2 years. More likely many of ya'll more hard-core end-gamers will stick around and funnel money SSG's way.

It's been a fantastic journey. Thank you.

[Ishlana]

I hope that they attract a meaningful number of new players but I'm not optimistic about that.

Not if they read these forums, for certain.

[Nonde]

Well and kindly said and reflective of the feelings of many of us. I can't help but think of the topic heading as So long and thanks for all the fish given Gundabad regen food

[TearMaker]

Yeah, all good things....

The game's story was always hindered by its defined endpoint, and it did an admirable job of going beyond that for a while. But more importantly to me, it's now a more contemporary MMO with respect to grinding and micro-payments and focus on end-game. I can't comment on the depth of the story anymore because, as I said, I'm not interested in it.

This is the feeling of many of my friends also. It's like we kind of get where we've been and the journey with the Dwarfs but if the next direction doesn't pull back to the main narrative then were also offski.

All this talk of Easterlings as next story arc is scary for the future of the game. Most here want to continue our story we have forged from the start and that can only lead in one direction and that is "Well, I'm Back"

[elvenes]

I think instead that the east side of middle earth is the much needed breath of fresh air the game needs. New bioms, new cultures, new everything. Plus in the books, Aragorn and Eomer spend quite a bit of time fixing things over there so the basis for a good story is there. Where should we go instead, even more forests and mountains, ruined old keeps and reused assets? how boring.

[Phantion]

I think instead that the east side of middle earth is the much needed breath of fresh air the game needs. New bioms, new cultures, new everything. Plus in the books, Aragorn and Eomer spend quite a bit of time fixing things over there so the basis for a good story is there. Where should we go instead, even more forests and mountains, ruined old keeps and reused assets? how boring.

Much agreed. I'm one of those players who, even with all the many flaws going on with game and end-game, would still love to see their take on as much of Middle-earth as possible before the last hoorah in the final sunset when Frodo sails West (2 and a half years of story-time away from the current spot in the story-time timeline).

There's nothing to stop someone from deciding to chill in the Shire and Bree whenever they wish to at any point in-game. But the Devs have made it clear that the Grey Havens means the game is over. I am in no rush to see them now (*already have the books and the movies for that part of the experience). Would love a Second Age version of those areas, perhaps, with Gil-galad in his heyday as the King, but no Third Age anytime soon. There's still 2/3rds of Middle-earth left to explore, and I'd love the chance to see LOTRO become the first LOTR-based game to build-up a digitized Middle-earth to that magnitude.

I am sorry for other folks in the thread who got the perfect storm of a bad LI "new system" implementation, huge push toward monetization and end-game, various lag and other mounting issues, and a heap load of too many Dwarves in the storyline. The story was a missed opportunity: they could have had Wood-Elves, Dale-Men, and River Hobbits, and Great Eagles, a la "The Battle of Five Armies" in the War of the Three Peaks, and if they've learned anything from this, I hope they'll learn it's a mistake to solely focus on 1 group of characters for a huge amount of time without variety (which is why the Fellowship of the Ring was so varied and not just a group of High Elves). The other mounting issues would've been deal-breakers for me too but for my continued friendships in-game and my enthusiasm for Middle-earth itself and Tolkien.

One of my favorite zones ever was Enedwaith because they managed to weave all the major players of Middle-earth together in an otherwise empty zone. There were powerful spirits of the West (the Huntsman), Saruman and his ilk, Wights and the Gaunt-Lords, Dunlendings, a dragon (Draigoch), some mischief out of Mordor (Old Woman of the Mountain and her fell Gorgoroth goats), the Noldor ruins to the north near Eregion, Stoor Hobbits in the Gloomglens, and finally, the Grey Company and all their sacrifices.

Enedwaith shows how to make a decent zone with little lore to go by while keeping it feeling relatively Middle-earthy. I hope they'll look back at some of those gems as they consider their future development

Cheers!

[DKenny]

Well and kindly said and reflective of the feelings of many of us. I can't help but think of the topic heading as So long and thanks for all the fish given Gundabad regen food

Somebody had to say it! Nice tie-in with the new fishing requirement.

[DKenny]

Yeah, all good things....

LOTRO has consumed far too much of my time (in a good way) for 14 years, with a year or so off in the middle. I always have been mainly solo. And I've played slowly, always at least a year (usually 2) behind the latest content. Even though that excludes me from much of the content and rewards, I have accepted that because what I CAN do has been more than enough.

This is because it has been a great game that has been true to the source material. I've hit bumps - - the first was when I reached endgame in SoA when everything was group content and everyone had moved on - - but they eventually fixed that so it was soloable. The second was "Big Battles" but I got through that. The third was the new LI imbued system, but I was early into the LI process at that point and I adapted...

Yeah, I was much the same, although maybe not quite 2 years behind. I think (relatively) recently they've made changes that have penalized people that get to end game late (e.g. virtue system). I always like the fact that before such changes, it didn't matter when one got to the content, it was still there. The biggest issue being that most other players had moved on. I actually liked the concept of Epic Battles, although they were certainly buggy at introduction. Basically Turbine bit off more than they could chew in the HD expansion by trying to introduce both trait trees and Epic Battles at the same time. They also made a huge PR mistake in claiming that Epic Battle would completely replace raids going forward. They ultimately backtracked on that, but it cost them a lot of players. Requiring the expansion to continue the epic quest chain didn't help either. They temporarily backtracked on that afterwards, although they pushed it through eventually by ending the old epic with Mordor and starting a new one, the black book. I would have liked to follow the epic through to the Scouring of the Shire and Grey Havens, but it's not to be.

....adapted too well it seems. When SSG applied level caps to scrolls a while back I figured that while other LI changes would be coming, there was no way they'd waste resources on doing that unless the basic LI system was going to be tweaked but essentially remain the same. LI leveling/reforging/deconstructing and grinding for scrolls and crystals on my main (with a tortoise stone), and managing shards for scrolls, became a mini-game and it had a purpose ... I worked up the means to immediately equip alts with powerful LIs even though it might make them overpowered - - - who cares?...I'm a solo player and did the grind with my main and didn't want to do it again...who or what would I be hurting?? I could enjoy the content grind-free on alts, immerse myself in the world again without focusing on mechanics.

Well, so much for that trust.

Now none of that stuff is worth much. Some "reward track" is coming...great. Trade-ins are pathetic relative to what those items did previously. I now see that my largest IXP runes now have minimum levels for use and my main is only lvl 127.....

Yeah, betrayed trust became something of a theme.

...OK well...everything has to come to an end and evolve into something else. The original epic was and is the best game I've ever played. And SSG did a great job of extending the storyline after the fall of Mordor. I thought the Mordor expansion was cool with the old Sauron lieutenants fighting each other, and recognizing that just killing Sauron didn't mean nasty stuff was gone for good. I liked the allegiance groups back then. It was also good to wrap up some storylines in northern Mirkwood and Dale Land. I even remembered mention of the Iron Hills from the books so I was interested in going there. The flashbacks to old Mordor were cool. But I'm not really interested anymore in different groups of dwarfs bickering with each other and frankly lost track of which group is which. I don't even know what Gundabad is, and don't have the desire to look it up.

LOTRO has moved into being a different MMO with its own lore that I'm not interested in anymore. The game's story was always hindered by its defined endpoint, and it did an admirable job of going beyond that for a while. But more importantly to me, it's now a more contemporary MMO with respect to grinding and micro-payments and focus on end-game. I can't comment on the depth of the story anymore because, as I said, I'm not interested in it. I get that. I'm not bashing the game or SSG, because games like this have to change. But the people playing them for over a decade change as well. I hope that they attract a meaningful number of new players but I'm not optimistic about that. My two early-twenties daughters love LOTR, but neither has any interest in playing this game even with me promoting it for 10 years, and even after I paid for a VIP account for one for 2 years. More likely many of ya'll more hard-core end-gamers will stick around and funnel money SSG's way.

It's been a fantastic journey. Thank you.

From the player perspective the Black Gate should have been the climax of the story. I was very disappointed in that content. The subsequent Mordor expansion diverged from what I was interested in. North Mirkwood was OK, but the prolonged Dwarf storyline was of little interest. Unfortunately I'll not see Scouring in game.

[TearMaker]

But the Devs have made it clear that the Grey Havens means the game is over. I am in no rush to see them now (*already have the books and the movies for that part of the experience).

A huge proportion of folks thought that Mordor was going to be the end of the game. In fact it brought many players back to Lotro because it was a milestone they wanted to experience with their characters personal stories. Most are still here.... but only just... and why? because they are hoping that we come back around again to the main narrative.

Whilst it is great to flesh out this world, you have to remember why most folks are here in the first place. This is why I have loved this game since day one, because it keeps us alongside the familiar whilst fleshing out and introducing us to the not so familiar...

We have just had some years of fleshing out... let's come back for a while then we can go away again... There is absolutely no reason why any of these stories you want cannot be told following the Scouring and beyond but to be honest, that wasn't what I was inferring anyway. There needs to be a ramp up towards the scouring. I mean it is going to be a Shire on a different layer to the starter Shire and that should start with SouthFarthing and there is a glimmer of hope that we are turning in that direction with the talk of Angle of Mitheithel being the next zone.

[Harvain]

A huge proportion of folks thought that Mordor was going to be the end of the game. In fact it brought many players back to Lotro because it was a milestone they wanted to experience with their characters personal stories. Most are still here.... but only just... and why? because they are hoping that we come back around again to the main narrative.

Whilst it is great to flesh out this world, you have to remember why most folks are here in the first place. This is why I have loved this game since day one, because it keeps us alongside the familiar whilst fleshing out and introducing us to the not so familiar...

We have just had some years of fleshing out... let's come back for a while then we can go away again... There is absolutely no reason why any of these stories you want cannot be told following the Scouring and beyond but to be honest, that wasn't what I was inferring anyway. There needs to be a ramp up towards the scouring. I mean it is going to be a Shire on a different layer to the starter Shire and that should start with SouthFarthing and there is a glimmer of hope that we are turning in that direction with the talk of Angle of Mitheithel being the next zone.

Not really with the Angle. It's just another Wildwood Quest Pack and filling in a section of the War of The Ring aka Epic Quest range of Content.

We're still Story-wise going to be in the North and with the Dwarves basically through March 2022 and possibly longer until the "Next Story" whether it's an ongoing Story or new Story starts up as the Fate of Gundabad Expansion Raid is coming with Update 32 in Mid-February, pending anything.

At least before 2022 starts and ahead of any SSG News of the Post-Gundabad Content, LOTRO's next focus is quite up in the air for the main Story Focus or Focuses.

[Mirhaen]

Not really with the Angle. It's just another Wildwood Quest Pack and filling in a section of the War of The Ring aka Epic Quest range of Content.

Well we do may find connection given that Hobbits used to live there, Stoors in particular if I recall correctly, of course long gone at the time we are supposed to enter the Angle, but we may find some traces. It is the home of the Dunedain of the North now, but given that they lived in what is described as fastness in the wilderness, unused to cities and houses of stone, I sort of expect to find few dwellings, if any. Perhaps rather some old ruins?

[Harvain]

Well we do may find connection given that Hobbits used to live there, Stoors in particular if I recall correctly, of course long gone at the time we are supposed to enter the Angle, but we may find some traces. It is the home of the Dunedain of the North now, but given that they lived in what is described as fastness in the wilderness, unused to cities and houses of stone, I sort of expect to find few dwellings, if any. Perhaps rather some old ruins?

Stretching south from the Trollshaws to the junction of the Bruinen and Mitheithel rivers is a wild land of rocky hills and deep pine-woods, and a graveyard of ancient kingdoms. The ruins of Elves and Men alike crumble among the trees, and the Rangers steal through the shadows of the trees, ever watchful, carrying out secret assignments as the north grows more dangerous by the day.

This pretty much already answers what we'll get.

The Ancestors of the Hobbits did live at the Angle for a little over 200 years but this was after Third Age 1150, so while it can't be ruled out but it's highly unlikely Hobbit Ruins would have lasted potentially 1,600+ Years.

So personal opinion ahead of what Content the Angle of Mitheithel will have, to me it'll mostly be focused on the Elves and the Dunedain with possibly a passing comment or comments about the Hobbits as a race coming into Eriador. Likely we'll encounter this Quest Pack Story-wise in the Late Third Age 3018 after Frodo & the One Ring arrive in Rivendell and ahead of the Fellowship of the Ring setting out on 25th December Third Age 3018. Probably be apart of "Scouting for signs of the Enemy" specifically the Nazgul and seeing what are the best routes for the Fellowship will be at least in Eriador and closest to Rivendell. Or it'll be apart of the Third Age 3019 and what elements of the Dunedain and their Elven Allies are doing to delay and distract the Enemy while the Fellowship of the Ring tries to slip past the oncoming nets of the Enemy.

[Mirhaen]

This pretty much already answers what we'll get.

The Ancestors of the Hobbits did live at the Angle for a little over 200 years but this was after Third Age 1150, so while it can't be ruled out but it's highly unlikely Hobbit Ruins would have lasted potentially 1,600+ Years.

So personal opinion ahead of what Content the Angle of Mitheithel will have, to me it'll mostly be focused on the Elves and the Dunedain with possibly a passing comment or comments about the Hobbits as a race coming into Eriador. Likely we'll encounter this Quest Pack Story-wise in the Late Third Age 3018 after Frodo & the One Ring arrive in Rivendell and ahead of the Fellowship of the Ring setting out on 25th December Third Age 3018. Probably be apart of "Scouting for signs of the Enemy" specifically the Nazgul and seeing what are the best routes for the Fellowship will be at least in Eriador and closest to Rivendell. Or it'll be apart of the Third Age 3019 and what elements of the Dunedain and their Elven Allies are doing to delay and distract the Enemy while the Fellowship of the Ring tries to slip past the oncoming nets of the Enemy.

Thanks for the quote, helped me to find the Letter, which I missed somehow :/ And now reminded me to your suggestion to have all ongoing projects listed in one thread on the forum Yeah, I would love that!

[Phantion]

A huge proportion of folks thought that Mordor was going to be the end of the game. In fact it brought many players back to Lotro because it was a milestone they wanted to experience with their characters personal stories. Most are still here.... but only just... and why? because they are hoping that we come back around again to the main narrative.

Whilst it is great to flesh out this world, you have to remember why most folks are here in the first place. This is why I have loved this game since day one, because it keeps us alongside the familiar whilst fleshing out and introducing us to the not so familiar...

We have just had some years of fleshing out... let's come back for a while then we can go away again... There is absolutely no reason why any of these stories you want cannot be told following the Scouring and beyond but to be honest, that wasn't what I was inferring anyway. There needs to be a ramp up towards the scouring. I mean it is going to be a Shire on a different layer to the starter Shire and that should start with SouthFarthing and there is a glimmer of hope that we are turning in that direction with the talk of Angle of Mitheithel being the next zone.

Well, I'll say this much. I can't really speak for "most players" as I'm not really sure if I can know what "most players" would want. I'll take your meaning as "most players you know." I happen to know many players myself who still largely enjoy the game, and as far as various problems go, we tend to enjoy roleplaying in a Middle-earth setting and having fun with it while taking part in some of SSG's storytelling and really just finding enjoyment for enjoyment's sake, especially where we can make it ourselves. Different strokes for different folks in different communities on different servers, I guess.

I'd say that they really ought to compromise here. They've got something of the idea with the Angle like you're saying.

I'd like for them to apply their Allegiances approach to storytelling to everything. I think what we can agree on is that Linear Storytelling is not really helpful here when we start to see players' interests vary in different areas. Some really like the Dwarven content, and some don't, and all of that is well and good ----> except that they've got this "Everyone needs to be in Place X in Timeline Y for Story Z" approach to storytelling that's creating a huge monotony and breaking-up interest in the game, as this thread as a whole shows me in addition to the significant outstanding problems everyone's mentioned.

I think they need alternatives. Rather than having 1 path to the level-cap, they really need to design multiple paths. It doesn't make sense to me that Theoden hasn't been buried yet after Gundabad.

I think that the "Homeward Bound" direction should be its own path to level 140. I think it should run parallel in the timeline to Elderslade and Gundabad. I think that the Update Cycle itself should "theme" different parts of the year differently.

Spring - Eriador Zone / return of the Fellowship or building-out an "in-between zone" like the Angle.

Summer - Historical, "Tales of Yore"-style zone - for those who love digging into Middle-earth's history.

Late Fall / Early Winter - Expansion into new region of Middle-earth.

I think they should alternate between different storylines that run simultaneously- just like the Allegiance quest-lines do (*they should run as normal zones, not Allegiances; I'm using Allegiances here as an example of how to have different stories run parallel to each other depending on your own choices), allowing you, as the player, to make different choices as to what you'd like to do. The "Homeward Bound" stuff should be in the same level-range ballpark as current expansion content and it's lead-up, building an alternate path to the level cap.

I'd even say that the missing regions between Dunland / Enedwaith and the Shire should mirror the progression from the eastern side of the Misties: level 106-115, level 115-120, level 120-130, and level 130-140 - or have it level-cap for now and update it later to reflect those ranges. They should totally avoid the "every part of Gondor is level 100" problem by building-in different paths to level. I think that allowing players to choose their own flavor of the kinds of storylines they'd prefer would be a really good way for them to keep things fresh and mix-it-up / break-up the whole "too many Dwarves" problem.

I'd much rather see that approach: that every major content update would take you somewhere different- versus this mess where everyone has to do the same thing at the same time in every single update cycle, waning interest when some would rather do something else than Dwarves, etc. I'm really wanting to see Rhun: but I'm also totally with you that spending 5 years of just straight Rhun would run the game into a disaster with far too much monotony and not enough different flavors to keep folks interested in playing the game and its storylines, just as the past few years of mostly Dwarves have done in wearing-out the player-base.

Time to make "storyline" into the plural "storylines" in my view - the "Main Narrative" and its adjacent opportunities - and I really, truly hope SSG will receive our feedback and listen and act on it.

Cheers!

[Harvain]

Well, I'll say this much. I can't really speak for "most players" as I'm not really sure if I can know what "most players" would want. I'll take your meaning as "most players you know." I happen to know many players myself who still largely enjoy the game and are fine with its direction. Different strokes for different folks in different communities on different servers, I guess.

I'd say that they really ought to compromise here. They've got something of the idea with the Angle like you're saying.

I'd like for them to apply their Allegiances approach to storytelling to everything. I think what we can agree on is that Linear Storytelling is not really helpful here when we start to see players' interests vary in different areas. Some really like the Dwarven content, and some don't, and all of that is well and good ----> except that they've got this "Everyone needs to be in Place X in Timeline Y for Story Z" approach to storytelling that's creating a huge monotony and breaking-up interest in the game, as this thread as a whole shows me in addition to the significant outstanding problems everyone's mentioned.

I think they need alternatives. Rather than having 1 path to the level-cap, they really need to design multiple paths. It doesn't make sense to me that Theoden hasn't been buried yet after Gundabad.

I think that the "Homeward Bound" direction should be its own path to level 140. I think it should run parallel in the timeline to Elderslade and Gundabad. I think that the Update Cycle itself should "theme" different parts of the year differently.

Spring - Eriador Zone / return of the Fellowship or building-out an "in-between zone" like the Angle.

Summer - Historical, "Tales of Yore"-style zone - for those who love digging into Middle-earth's history.

Late Fall / Early Winter - Expansion into new region of Middle-earth.

I think they should alternate between different storylines that run simultaneously- just like the Allegiance quest-lines do (*they should run as normal zones, not Allegiances; I'm using Allegiances here as an example of how to have different stories run parallel to each other depending on your own choices), allowing you, as the player, to make different choices as to what you'd like to do. The "Homeward Bound" stuff should be in the same level-range ballpark as current expansion content and it's lead-up, building an alternate path to the level cap.

I'd even say that the missing regions between Dunland / Enedwaith and the Shire should mirror the progression from the eastern side of the Misties: level 106-115, level 115-120, level 120-130, and level 130-140 - or have it level-cap for now and update it later to reflect those ranges. They should totally avoid the "every part of Gondor is level 100" problem by building-in different paths to level. I think that allowing players to choose their own flavor of the kinds of storylines they'd prefer would be a really good way for them to keep things fresh and mix-it-up / break-up the whole "too many Dwarves" problem.

I'd much rather see that approach: that every major content update would take you somewhere different- versus this mess where everyone has to do the same thing at the same time in every single update cycle, waning interest when some would rather do something else than Dwarves, etc. I'm really wanting to see Rhun: but I'm also totally with you that spending 5 years of just straight Rhun would run the game into a disaster with far too much monotony and not enough different flavors to keep folks interested in playing the game and its storylines, just as the past few years of mostly Dwarves have done in wearing-out the player-base.

Time to make "storyline" into the plural "storylines" in my view- I really, truly hope SSG will receive our feedback and listen and act on it.

Cheers!

Technically and I can't quote SSG on such but the Wedding of Aragorn & Arwen is a small time-skip forward.

The Events before and leading up to the conclusion of the Fate of Gundabad (what is coming with the FoG Raid during Update 32) is all before this and a continuation of what was setup during the Black Book of Mordor's Events.

Something that would be nice going forward and will eventually be needed is having Dates within the Quest Lines especially Main Story Lines so we know where things stand at any given point.



Now for "Alternate Paths to Level 140" isn't something the SSG LOTRO Team is likely to do.

There is a set path and story with "some" branching paths but usually within say a Quest Pack or Expansion for X Quest or Quests.

Personally instead of a "Alternative Path or Paths" they just need to do a mass cleaning up of the Content we have and improving the overall Experience of Leveling through LOTRO from Level 1 to Level 140.

Something that needs to finally be done is the SSG LOTRO Team bringing the Shadowfax/Treebeard element for how Character Experience can be earned either from a Normal (Current way), Slower (Treebeard way) or Faster (Shadowfax way) and let the individual decide how quickly they can go through Content. This for example might help some folks with not having to use a Stone of the Tortoise (or at the least not have to fully use it to keep themselves within a certain Level Range) as they'd just Level much slower if using the Slower XP Gain or if folks wanted Faster XP Gain and to "Power Level" through things, they'd have a much easier time with such and likely more incentive to do so when added to other XP Gain Bonuses.

Landscape Difficulty Setting is a different discussion as it is something the whole of LOTRO needs to improve the Experience on an Individual Standpoint but unless SSG would have a 3 Month Update Cycle (and likely much longer) to get such up and running on all Servers, worked out to doing well and all majority Bugs/Glitches dealt with, it's quite unlikely to be seen in 2022 unless SSG has Internal Plans for doing such.



But yes, the SSG LOTRO Team does need to adopt a Tolkien-like Multi-Story again where we hop from Story to Story. Bring all elements together before they branch off again.

That'll help keep things fresh and never sticking to any 1 Region, Culture, Conflict, etc and help avoid what was and is a legitimate burnout on Dwarf Story we've dealt with on & off since the Mordor Expansion in 2017 and became mostly Dwarf Heavy Content especially the last several years. Which can be seen in comments about the Erebor Premium Housing Area where X amount are excited but other X amount aren't interested and state that so much Dwarven Content has lead to less interest in such.

So hopefully this is something SSG is considering if not already considered for 2022 and beyond to help give more variety. Maybe having a 4 Story Element sometime in the future where there is always a Elf, Dwarf, Men and Hobbit Story Lines being told would help spice things up a bit. There is a lot of Second Age and Third Age Lore that can be used especially in a Tales of Yore format to explore how all 4 Races got the point of the War of the Ring, the eventual Defeat of Sauron and the aftermath of such as the Third Age slowly but surely keeps getting closer to ending.

[Phantion]

Technically and I can't quote SSG on such but the Wedding of Aragorn & Arwen is a small time-skip forward.

The Events before and leading up to the conclusion of the Fate of Gundabad (what is coming with the FoG Raid during Update 32) is all before this and a continuation of what was setup during the Black Book of Mordor's Events.

Something that would be nice going forward and will eventually be needed is having Dates within the Quest Lines especially Main Story Lines so we know where things stand at any given point.



Now for "Alternate Paths to Level 140" isn't something the SSG LOTRO Team is likely to do.

There is a set path and story with "some" branching paths but usually within say a Quest Pack or Expansion for X Quest or Quests.

Personally instead of a "Alternative Path or Paths" they just need to do a mass cleaning up of the Content we have and improving the overall Experience of Leveling through LOTRO from Level 1 to Level 140.

Something that needs to finally be done is the SSG LOTRO Team bringing the Shadowfax/Treebeard element for how Character Experience can be earned either from a Normal (Current way), Slower (Treebeard way) or Faster (Shadowfax way) and let the individual decide how quickly they can go through Content. This for example might help some folks with not having to use a Stone of the Tortoise (or at the least not have to fully use it to keep themselves within a certain Level Range) as they'd just Level much slower if using the Slower XP Gain or if folks wanted Faster XP Gain and to "Power Level" through things, they'd have a much easier time with such and likely more incentive to do so when added to other XP Gain Bonuses.

Landscape Difficulty Setting is a different discussion as it is something the whole of LOTRO needs to improve the Experience on an Individual Standpoint but unless SSG would have a 3 Month Update Cycle (and likely much longer) to get such up and running on all Servers, worked out to doing well and all majority Bugs/Glitches dealt with, it's quite unlikely to be seen in 2022 unless SSG has Internal Plans for doing such.



But yes, the SSG LOTRO Team does need to adopt a Tolkien-like Multi-Story again where we hop from Story to Story. Bring all elements together before they branch off again.

That'll help keep things fresh and never sticking to any 1 Region, Culture, Conflict, etc and help avoid what was and is a legitimate burnout on Dwarf Story we've dealt with on & off since the Mordor Expansion in 2017 and became mostly Dwarf Heavy Content especially the last several years. Which can be seen in comments about the Erebor Premium Housing Area where X amount are excited but other X amount aren't interested and state that so much Dwarven Content has lead to less interest in such.

So hopefully this is something SSG is considering if not already considered for 2022 and beyond to help give more variety. Maybe having a 4 Story Element sometime in the future where there is always a Elf, Dwarf, Men and Hobbit Story Lines being told would help spice things up a bit. There is a lot of Second Age and Third Age Lore that can be used especially in a Tales of Yore format to explore how all 4 Races got the point of the War of the Ring, the eventual Defeat of Sauron and the aftermath of such as the Third Age slowly but surely keeps getting closer to ending.

Well yeah, even if alternate paths to the cap won't work, at least having branching, simultaneous storylines that are each advanced separately in different seasons I think would help a lot. That way, folks who really want the Scouring will be happy, and folks who really are just in it for Middle-earth in the longer haul can have their fun as well.

I think that having more Sauron - via Tales of Yore - will prove crucial to the game's survival as far as keeping things fresh goes. I also think that they need to scour through every bit of lore that Tolkien gives them that, even if they can't adapt them directly due to legal rights issues, can make ---------- assumptions ----------- to build their game-lore-on, building from Tolkien's own assumptions.

For example, Tolkien talked about multiple hidden Elven Realms- not just Thranduil's in Northern Mirkwood, plus Elves awoke in the East and not all went westward. SSG, work with that.
Tolkien talked about Hobbits originating in the East and long pre-dating Sauron's arrival in Mordor or wider influence out there to begin with. SSG, work with that- make some assumptions. The Devs already showed Dwarves from those far-afield places. Work with that.

If they use Enedwaith as their model, plenty of the uncharted bits of Middle-earth will still feel Middle-earthy versus "Game of Thrones Essos" set in Middle-earth, although there would have to be some of that to some degree. I think they need to take what Tolkien gave them and build from that info as much as possible, even if without adapting certain things directly. A great example is a certain female Elf with a black veil in the Avorrim Cave whom is unidentified on purpose and only given an in-game name, *winks*. Sauron as Antheron in some bits of Eregion's past is another great example- as well as the newly named mysterious figures robed in blue that some of the Easterling content refers to. There are ways to do things.........

I'd actually think the most Middle-earthy thing they could do in farther-flung reaches of the world would be to use their Huntman's playbook again. That was an excellent way of bringing in "Silmarillion"-level content without violating anything legally and really getting the Valar / Maiar component of the legendarium in there in a clever way. Very memorable character and wonderful sequence- especially in the Grey Company flashback Session Plays via Wildermore.

But anyways: Enedwaith's a good model of what to do; Gundabad is not so good of a model, and they really needed to weave-in other groups together. I wouldn't have minded a "Battle of Five Armies Part II" with the other groups of characters coming together to aid the Dwarves. Hrimil was vastly under-used; they could have had her try to freeze-up Lake-Town, get driven away out of terror of a certain Black Arrow, had her go after the Wood-Elves, and turned it into a huge Epic involving all the Northern groups of characters as a capstone for the North- culminating at Gundabad and not only for the Dwarves of Erebor. But that ship already sailed, and I hope they'll consider trying something more along those lines in future content: it's all about the connections that form the rich tapestry of Middle-earth, not each individual strand on its own.

That's what I loved about Black Book: it even brought Gondorians and the Zhelruka Dwarves together in a storyline connecting back to Volume I that was, to me, one of my highlights for the game. I loved that its twists and turns landed us among different groups of characters in many different areas- so that's another good model to follow, I think.

They need to do away with the "The Legacy of the [Group]" model. Tolkien didn't write that way; even "The Hobbit" ended up having much bigger stakes than just Thorin Oakenshield's claim to Erebor, and I think we could really tell that. Volume III managed Aragorn's Legacy very well as it became Middle-earth's Legacy with Aragorn and the Grey Company playing a key role per the books.

Otherwise, if we're stuck in High Elven mansions for 3 years, we'll get sick of High Elves. If we're just fighting Ruffians and helping Hobbits for 3 years, we'll get sick of Hobbits. If we're running around the rest of Gondor or the East or South for 3 years, we'll get sick of those.

My advice to SSG: please try to tell the Legacies of the Dwarves, the Elves, the Men, the Hobbits, the Beornings, etc., as coherent interweaving stories than as isolated monoliths; that's what I'd prefer anyway, my two cents.


Cheers!

[TearMaker]

I can see you both like to speak .... a lot...

But what we can sort of agree on is that SSG takes an excursion away from the narrative to flesh out middle earth but then they bring it back also and keep everyone happy.

I expect Southfarthing to be the very least in bringing it back before they take it away again to lands unkown and then bring it back again for the Scouring...

The timeline demands it in any way.

[Phantion]

I can see you both like to speak .... a lot...

But what we can sort of agree on is that SSG takes an excursion away from the narrative to flesh out middle earth but then they bring it back also and keep everyone happy.

I expect Southfarthing to be the very least in bringing it back before they take it away again to lands unkown and then bring it back again for the Scouring...

The timeline demands it in any way.

Yeah, I couldn't have said it better in another 10,000 words. Enthusiasm gets perilous with my long-winded posts :P You've got two stories basically going on here:

1- The Main Narrative with the LOTR protagonists returning home to set things to rights.

2- SSG's extension of that Main Narrative, which I'd like to call: The Scouring of Middle-earth. Tolkien implied there were other threats (*lesser than Sauron but still threats) out there, and SSG has basically made it a longer-running theme; it's the "Clean-Up" Gig where our characters go around like bounty hunters taking-out the rest of Sauron and Morgoth's minions, allowing for the ending.

Yes, they need to alternate a lot more between these and go back and forth within a given update cycle to keep things fresh and refreshed.

Cheers!

[Harvain]

I can see you both like to speak .... a lot...

But what we can sort of agree on is that SSG takes an excursion away from the narrative to flesh out middle earth but then they bring it back also and keep everyone happy.

I expect Southfarthing to be the very least in bringing it back before they take it away again to lands unkown and then bring it back again for the Scouring...

The timeline demands it in any way.

Personally I wouldn't see us having the Southfarthing until Post-Scouring/Battle of Bywater during the Rebuilding of the Shire.

Doesn't really make sense to have said region first then go and deal with Saruman as the Southfarthing is where Lotho Sackville-Baggins got his wealth and property from his father and where Saruman's initial powerbase started in that area of Eriador. There were reports of "trouble with the Big Folk" in Third Age 3018 which is the readers earliest hints that Saruman not only was spying on the Shire but was actively trying to put his own Servants into a position to provide resources to his own eventual war efforts. So it wouldn't make much sense for us to go there as both Lotho and Saruman are basically establish and their part has to play out.

So more than likely the Southfarthing will be apart of a "Scouring the Shire/Battle of Bywater/Rebuilding the Shire" Expansion pending how SSG will deal with Bree and the Shire for their Late Third Age 3019 versions. Some folks not on this thread have pointed out you can't really have a "Us, the Player Characters, being the main heroes for this as it's a very set moment with X amount of Men vs X amount of Hobbits, a set battle and with all the key elements explained" for what occurs during these events.

Which I agree with that and maybe the Scouring of the Shire's final Events, the Battle of Bywater and Death of Saruman should be done with us being an "observer" or maybe we need to be Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin for certain moments. Akin to how during the Blood of Azog Quest Pack we were actually playing as the Dwarf, Hermáth Stormhammer, who fought during the Sixth War of Dwarves & Orcs and the final events of said war. Except this time we are directly Frodo/Sam/Merry/Pippin and dealing with unique moments that each has their most important moment in.

Regardless of how it'll be very interesting how the SSG LOTRO Team deal with going back to key spots with how LOTRO has always had each Region with set Dates and how they deal with said Events in the Shire which while quite important to the LOTR Story/LOTRO Story/etc is honestly a much smaller and tame moment compared to the larger Events the Reader and/or Player had encountered in the Book and/or LOTRO.