SSG you have to be literally trolling

[Blastoyz]

Making CURRENT level currency rewards from CURRENT level items you get from running CURRENT level instances to give currency that's used for PAST level items???

At the same time increasing all the caps (this is an assumption) implies that you are also going to increase the cost of these barters? Why else would you increase it? This is clearly a ploy to increase lootbox sales as people look for alternative ember sources.
So when we run instances and get items we aren't running content for, we actually get literally nothing? and once we get items we are after there's zero reason to run the instance if its not tied to a weekly quest?

"The sources of Embers of Enchantment will continue to change as our newest content changes".
Looking forward to 50 missions a week for 150 embers. If instances are to stay relevant then instance chests have to reward embers or something alike.

It's not April yet is it?

[Guidorocker]

I agree. I am level 137, and fearing level 140.

I had to run 2Instances yesterday and realized that I need to run 2 every day for a week, just to get enough Ancient Script to upgrade 2 of my runes.
I will very soon need to upgrade ALL of my runes before I hit level 140 or my weapon will be un-usable!

It made me realize I am grinding the same silly instances over-and-over, just to upgrade my weapon to the point where it is usable.
I want to go QUEST and play the game, but afraid if I don't do instances, I won't have a weapon to use at level 140.

[Braer]

I agree. I am level 137, and fearing level 140.

I had to run 2Instances yesterday and realized that I need to run 2 every day for a week, just to get enough Ancient Script to upgrade 2 of my runes.
I will very soon need to upgrade ALL of my runes before I hit level 140 or my weapon will be un-usable!

It made me realize I am grinding the same silly instances over-and-over, just to upgrade my weapon to the point where it is usable.
I want to go QUEST and play the game, but afraid if I don't do instances, I won't have a weapon to use at level 140.

Remember to stone at 139 or you move into a wholly more restrictive loot mechanic.

[Ashkerov]

Ok, I have been around this game for a long time and seen its various forms of end game currency and ways to obtain it. 1) If you cannot obtain embers from end level content deconstruction and the only way to obtain embers is to purchase keys from LOTRO store, then this is clearly a cash grab, kiss our ### players, move. 2) with the consistent exodus of people away from the game over the last few years, this game is continually decaying player population and you really think that digging into player pockets will pull old players back and spawn a new generation of players? 3) unless there are multiple ways to obtain significant amounts of embers (more than 1000 embers per week per toon) then why waste your time coding in new vendors and just leave all end game content as only way to obtain end game gear? 4) at some point SSG needs to get their heads removed from their puckers and find ways to get new blood into the game or just give up and sell/shut it down. severely limiting embers collection or making it pay to play only just drives the stake deeper into the heart of the already week player base 5) STOP RELEASING CONTENT THATS BROKEN USE YOUR DAMNED BETA SERVERS!

[CloudCastle]

I agree. I am level 137, and fearing level 140.

I had to run 2Instances yesterday and realized that I need to run 2 every day for a week, just to get enough Ancient Script to upgrade 2 of my runes.
I will very soon need to upgrade ALL of my runes before I hit level 140 or my weapon will be un-usable!

It made me realize I am grinding the same silly instances over-and-over, just to upgrade my weapon to the point where it is usable.
I want to go QUEST and play the game, but afraid if I don't do instances, I won't have a weapon to use at level 140.

You have until level 141 before your current traceries "deactivate." (Assuming you are using level 121 traceries.) So basically, you have until the next level cap goes up again (probably in a year or so) to eventually get all your traceries upgraded to the Gundabad versions.

There are also quite a few ways to earn enhancements at level 140. I would not recommend using ancient script for runes. Traceries are far more valuable and harder to obtain, so save your scripts for those.

[johnwood]

They're never going to try to bring in new players. They're going to milk you until you're gone. When that is is up to you

[JH15547]

Ok, I have been around this game for a long time and seen its various forms of end game currency and ways to obtain it. 1) If you cannot obtain embers from end level content deconstruction and the only way to obtain embers is to purchase keys from LOTRO store, then this is clearly a cash grab, kiss our ### players, move. 2) with the consistent exodus of people away from the game over the last few years, this game is continually decaying player population and you really think that digging into player pockets will pull old players back and spawn a new generation of players? 3) unless there are multiple ways to obtain significant amounts of embers (more than 1000 embers per week per toon) then why waste your time coding in new vendors and just leave all end game content as only way to obtain end game gear? 4) at some point SSG needs to get their heads removed from their puckers and find ways to get new blood into the game or just give up and sell/shut it down. severely limiting embers collection or making it pay to play only just drives the stake deeper into the heart of the already week player base 5) STOP RELEASING CONTENT THATS BROKEN USE YOUR DAMNED BETA SERVERS!

Technically, you still have weeklies for earning embers too ... but yeah, it's way more limited.

[BlitzKr1eg]

They're never going to try to bring in new players. They're going to milk you until you're gone. When that is is up to you

Yean, it's time for people to finally accept this fact...Lotro was prob the most fun gaming experience I've ever had back in the days, especially pre F2P (but also the few years right after F2P).

But the state of the game these days is just so awful that I can't believe that there's still players left. Game is a bloody mess both when it comes to content/grind, but also the technical side of things (just look at all the threads regarding server lag).

Also compare the initial cost of this game to other MMO's...

Vote with your wallets folks, either the game will die (may it rest in peace) or SSG will make the necessary mprovements (doubtful).

[Beltharas]

Yean, it's time for people to finally accept this fact...Lotro was prob the most fun gaming experience I've ever had back in the days, especially pre F2P (but also the few years right after F2P).

But the state of the game these days is just so awful that I can't believe that there's still players left. Game is a bloody mess both when it comes to content/grind, but also the technical side of things (just look at all the threads regarding server lag).

Also compare the initial cost of this game to other MMO's...

Vote with your wallets folks, either the game will die (may it rest in peace) or SSG will make the necessary mprovements (doubtful).

If you've been around that long then you also know that folks have been making almost identical comments to this for just as long, and yet LOTRO keeps on trucking. The game is fine, the devs are fine, the proposed changes will work out fine, and the sun shall rise on Middle Earth again tomorrow

[BlitzKr1eg]

If you've been around that long then you also know that folks have been making almost identical comments to this for just as long, and yet LOTRO keeps on trucking. The game is fine, the devs are fine, the proposed changes will work out fine, and the sun shall rise on Middle Earth again tomorrow

Sure, the whole "game will die" jargon has been around for a really long time, but you can't deny that the population have sunken even further, along with even more technical issues.

Amazons new show could have been a great way to give the game a second birth, but given all the problems with the current product I highly doubt SSG will see any long term player base increase.

[Braer]

If you've been around that long then you also know that folks have been making almost identical comments to this for just as long, and yet LOTRO keeps on trucking. The game is fine, the devs are fine, the proposed changes will work out fine, and the sun shall rise on Middle Earth again tomorrow

Sure. Each dollar you spend to prop it up will "prove" your case. Just takes a little more each time.

[Feoh]

If you've been around that long then you also know that folks have been making almost identical comments to this for just as long, and yet LOTRO keeps on trucking. The game is fine, the devs are fine, the proposed changes will work out fine, and the sun shall rise on Middle Earth again tomorrow

I've been around since 2008. The game isn't fine. The sun has set, enjoy the twilight.

[Thorondir]

Sure. Each dollar you spend to prop it up will "prove" your case. Just takes a little more each time.

you mean like 10% more .. which actually is still 0 as there was never a time you actually needed money to get gear for a raid/instance? I have been geared for everything in the last years within 1-2 weeks without spending a single € on the game for gear - just run instances/... and you will be fine like always.

[Sovereign50]

If you've been around that long then you also know that folks have been making almost identical comments to this for just as long, and yet LOTRO keeps on trucking. The game is fine, the devs are fine, the proposed changes will work out fine, and the sun shall rise on Middle Earth again tomorrow

Whether by falling on its sword or through the slow decay of time, LOTRO will die. And there will be no comfort for its players, no comfort to ease the pain of its passing. It will come to death, an image of the splendour of LOTR nostalgia undimmed before the breaking of the game world. But you, my optimistic consumer, you will linger on in darkness and in doubt as nightfall in winter that comes without a star. Here you will dwell bound to your ignorance under its fading servers, while all the game world is changed and your wallet is utterly spent.

[Vilan]

That made me smile. A cookie for you! Or lembas perhaps.

[Seregthol]

The game is fine, the devs are fine, the proposed changes will work out fine, and the sun shall rise on Middle Earth again tomorrow

(voice of a Dev): "Mom! I told you to stay off the Forums!"

[NailFelagund]

Whether by falling on its sword or through the slow decay of time, LOTRO will die. And there will be no comfort for its players, no comfort to ease the pain of its passing. It will come to death, an image of the splendour of LOTR nostalgia undimmed before the breaking of the game world. But you, my optimistic consumer, you will linger on in darkness and in doubt as nightfall in winter that comes without a star. Here you will dwell bound to your ignorance under its fading servers, while all the game world is changed and your wallet is utterly spent.

Are you a writer? This is beautifully written .

And I totally agree. SSG doesn't have the vision to keep this game alive for a long time. This latest mess just confirms it.

[Daniyel]

If the the endgame playerbase survives these changes, you will still be parted. If Greed is defeated and Black Steel Keys return and all that you hope for comes true you will still have to taste the bitterness of mortality.

Whether by falling on its sword or through the slow decay of time, LOTRO will die. And there will be no comfort for its players, no comfort to ease the pain of its passing. It will come to death, an image of the splendour of LOTR nostalgia undimmed before the breaking of the game world. But you, my optimistic consumer, you will linger on in darkness and in doubt as nightfall in winter that comes without a star. Here you will dwell bound to your ignorance under its fading servers, while all the game world is changed and your wallet is utterly spent.

This is by far the most beautifully written text inspired by JRR Tolkien I've read in, to quote George Lucas, a long time....

The original quote, from Peter Jackson's adaptation with Screenplay credits of Fran Walsh Philippa Boyens Stephen Sinclair

Elrond:
If Aragorn survives this war, you will still be parted. If Sauron is defeated and Aragorn made king and all that you hope for comes true you will still have to taste the bitterness of mortality. Whether by the sword or the slow decay of time, Aragorn will die. And there will be no comfort for you, no comfort to ease the pain of his passing. He will come to death an image of the splendor of the kings of Men in glory undimmed before the breaking of the world. But you, my daughter, you will linger on in darkness and in doubt as nightfall in winter that comes without a star. Here you will dwell bound to your grief under the fading trees until all the world is changed and the long years of your life are utterly spent.

[Daniyel]

Ok, I have been around this game for a long time and seen its various forms of end game currency and ways to obtain it. 1) If you cannot obtain embers from end level content deconstruction and the only way to obtain embers is to purchase keys from LOTRO store, then this is clearly a cash grab, kiss our ### players, move. 2) with the consistent exodus of people away from the game over the last few years, this game is continually decaying player population and you really think that digging into player pockets will pull old players back and spawn a new generation of players? 3) unless there are multiple ways to obtain significant amounts of embers (more than 1000 embers per week per toon) then why waste your time coding in new vendors and just leave all end game content as only way to obtain end game gear? 4) at some point SSG needs to get their heads removed from their puckers and find ways to get new blood into the game or just give up and sell/shut it down. severely limiting embers collection or making it pay to play only just drives the stake deeper into the heart of the already week player base 5) STOP RELEASING CONTENT THATS BROKEN USE YOUR DAMNED BETA SERVERS!

I concur. I've also experienced both various end-game currencies and utilized currencies from outdated level caps while leveling up since starting my journey in SSG's/Turbine's/Codemaster's Middle Earth since Sep 2010. This post is long, there is a TL;DR at the end.

1) wholehearted yep - see my breakdown of 3). Sprinkling in one-off embers on quests, even with retaining embers from solo-missions, weekly coin turn-ins, instance wrappers, and weekly 20 Reclaiming Gundabad public instance quests is not enough as it encourages players to prioritize getting those done at the expense of running group endgame content at a difficulty level with a full party. As others have suggested, retaining the functionality of disenchanting unwanted loot for embers from T2, T3, T4, T5 content is paramount as it gives players the OPTION to play the game in different ways. those who can group, do so. Those who prefer solo-ing can get embers that way via missions, landscape content (20 reclamation quests/solo/duo-ing 131 for the 6 weekly)
While I'm very greatful for Raninia's communication and in particular his posts in the thread,
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...71#post8119071
and I understand and appreciate what I personally believe to be genuine intentions to "clarify the value of each currency, better control their distribution, and improve the overall player experience"as stated by Cordovan, https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...89#post8118189 and especially that the plans have been put on hold for now, I want to take the time to be constructive in this post to help provide feedback that might build a better future for both the playerbase AND SSG, who form a Symbiotic relationship.

2) Nail on the head. Amen. @SSG Staff, see my response below to 4) for constructive suggestions <3

3) Agreed! The Vendors are there so that we have more things to PURCHASE with embers. it's not a bad thing on it's own.... and it makes a lot of business sense, provided that as you said, players can earn the embers to spend through gameplay.
1000 embers/week per character is a good minimum. At 130 cap, we had 500(coins of Minas Ithil), 500 (Nazgul), 500 (Limlok), 500 (weekly 4 instances), 500 (10 Reclamation quests), and we had the 500 from 15 missions and the 500 from 45 missions, for a total of 3500 Embers per character per week. Plus we had on average ~500 from Shakalush run EVERY DAY =D
Currently we have 2000, 500 from the 15/15 weekly missions, 500 from the 45/45 weekly missions, 500 from the 6/6 instances, and 20/20 from the Reclaiming Gundabad weekly. However, due to missions taking a lot longer on some classes than others, and due to them being essentially solo content, and due to the high volume of the 45 missions, and due to the long delay in loading assets in and out of missions, they eat up a lot of time collectively, such that they're honestly only viable for a 24/7 player or for someone who only plays one and only one endgame character.

4) I agree that growing the playerbase is a great idea. However, selling off/shutting down should be a LAST RESORT. Not just because there are many players who would be saddened, but also because there is still so much good that this MMO brings to the world. for example, I know of no other MMO that is actually used in a 501(c)(3) nonprofit educational institution, namely The Mythgard Institute at Signum University in Nashua, NH, a non-profit, online graduate school based in New Hampshire, granting the degree of Master of Arts in Language and Literature. https://massivelyop.com/2017/01/21/m...ien-professor/ and https://mythgard.org/lotro/exlotr/
So, what's a way to "get new blood into the game"? as other's have suggested elsewhere, capitalize on Amazon's new show set in the 2nd age. Maybe SSG could crowd-source/subsidize Amazon for an advertisment slot for LOTRO. LOTRO's Moria has an interlude with the Balrog showing the original fall of Kazad-Dum.....The Blood of Azog content was set entirely in the past and it was brilliant an beautifully done, however it came at an over saturated stage in the endgame cycle, after having stayed at the same level cap in Minas Morgul, Wells of Langflood, and the Elderslade. Alternatively and/or in-tandem, offer a Gundabad Expansion type package - ONCE PER ACCOUNT, and ONLY NEWLY created accounts, that include:

2x Valar to 130
10 Black Steel Keys - or just Raw Embers.
Premium Wallet Upgrade
10x Account-bound +5 bag slot item upgrade (or however many it takes to get the maximum number of inventory bag slots
20 wardrobe slots
+30 shared storage slots

Access to ALL PRIOR/Currently available Quest Packs/Expansions/Instance Clusters (AKA the freebie code)
An email to the customer or an in-game item that contains a URL to an OFFICIAL SSG article Catered to specifically to new players that explains, in one place, suggestions on how to use the Valars and how to get started and different ways to play and enjoy the game, with the intention being how to not get lost and how to quickly and enjoyably achieve commonly desired goals of new players including but not limited to:

Store organization, Subscription Benefits (PVP, Town Services, Mailbox-anywhere), Creating a new character, avatar features, naming/re-naming, race-class combo selection guides, housing system, Seasonal Festival system, Cosmetic pets, Motes/Figments/Embers and landscape currencies, videos show-casing Class/Race play with actual skills/tooltips visible from in-game footage, pretty much what used to be physically printed in booklet manuals that came with the purchase of a physical copy of a game from the bygone era. I actually still have 1 sealed Collector's Edition of Mines of Moria left to cheer me up when I'm feeling down...

The article could be as broad or narrow as SSG's marketing team sees fit, but it anything would help, even just including the simple fact that a new player has no idea that a Hunter who is an ELF does 5% more bow damage than any other race..... but I digress.

5) Wholehearted yep - incentivize players to attempt/test specific tasks on Bullroarer as was done with the recent PVMP updates - dedicated, moderated discord server, with perhaps some LP for accounts of players who follow SSG dev guidelines and document and submit screenshots from the bullroarer client for anything that warrants testing - be it questing, boss fights, festivals, hobbies, housing, crafting, whatever it may be. SSG should determine the LP it could be as little as 5 LP for one quest bug or whatever. my point is if BR testing is INCENTIVIZED, a significant portion of the player base will jump at the opportunity to test it, beyond just fans of the game. Bullroarer participation could skyrocket as a result, and meaningful Q&A would be outsourced for cheap.

TL;DR - While putting changes on hold and leaving the embers/motes/figments as is on live is a safer bet, It is not my recommendation.
with the utmost respect and honest intention to benefit both SSG staff and the playerbase, I've formatted my two cents in the same format provided to us by Cordovan in the official Update 32 post from January 11. https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...89#post8118189
I recommend:


Here's the short version, with further detail below:


1. Significantly increasing the cap on these currencies. For example, Embers of Enchantment will now cap at 50,000, ten times higher than it is now.
2. There will be LIMITED currency barter exchange between these currencies. Embers will no longer convert to Figments of Splendour directly. Instead, Embers can convert to Motes, and Motes can convert to Figments at a REDUCED rate. Instead of 1000 motes for 1000 figments, it could be 1000 motes for 100 figments, or whatever SSG/Bullroarer feedback indicated would be appropriate.
3. ONLY When the level cap goes up, all of existing Embers of Enchantment will automatically become Motes. During other large item level update intervals, the embers should remain.
4. Leave the ember value for disenchanting instance loot untouched, which ensures content stays relevant, much like Remmorchant stayed relevant throughout the 130 cap, even after the addition of Amdan Dammul and Fall of Khazad-Dum raids.

Here's the breakdown as it looks for each ingredient:


Embers of Enchantment:


Embers continue to be our cap level currency used to barter for cap level gear.
All Purple (Uncommon or higher quality) gear acquired from Instances/level cap quests disenchants into Embers. Use daily/weekly locks to manage how many embers players can farm. After all, was that not their original purpose when introduced in the original Mordor Expansion in 2017 with the Court Of Seregost/Abyss cluster?
Embers will no longer convert to Figments of Splendour directly. Instead, Embers can convert to Motes, and Motes can convert to Figments at a REDUCED rate. Instead of 1000 motes for 1000 figments, it could be 1000 motes for 100 figments, or whatever SSG/Bullroarer feedback indicated would be appropriate.
ONLY When the level cap goes up, all of existing Embers of Enchantment will automatically become Motes. During other large item level update intervals, the embers should remain. Although I suspect the intention behind including "other large item level update intervals" was to make it feasible to do an Embers reset without raising the level cap, I believe it's enough to do an Embers Reset at the start of a new level-cap and that this is a happy medium IMO between the needs of the player and the financial needs of SSG. And yes, I'm prepared for sour looks in my direction from both the playerbase that stocks up embers in preparation for a level-cap raise (I myself am guilty of this), as well as for sour looks in my direction from SSG because the spike in Black Steel Keys will be less often than it would have been otherwise. But, I really do think this is a middle-ground compromise, especially considering the fact that Black Steel Keys can only be purchased through the Lotro Store.
The Embers of Enchantment cap is being increased to 50,000 with Update 32.
"The sources of Embers of Enchantment will continue to change as our newest content changes. The only gear that disenchants into Embers will come from Adventurer’s Lootboxes."
So, if this was the case at 130 cap, then when 3 peaks came out, Limlok weekly, Minas morgul weeklies, would start giving us motes? I have an alternative idea. When new content is released, but the level cap is NOT raised:
-Reduce the Ember value from the weeklies of Gundabad down from 500 embers to 400 embers, or down from 500 embers to 250 embers. make the new content give more embers than the older content, and players will run the new content for embers. Dropping the older content's ember numbers will assuage the situation where SSG feels that players have too many sources of Embers like at 130 cap. This way, players can pick and choose the weeklies they want to run without damaging SSG's bottom line too much.




Motes of Enchantment:


Motes will continue to be exchanged for leveling gear.
Add an exchange for Motes to Ancient Script. This will allow you to more quickly catch up your Legendary Items when the time is appropriate.
Motes no longer convert to Figments of Splendour at a 1:1 ratio. Motes can convert to Figments at a REDUCED rate. Instead of 1000 motes for 1000 figments, it could be 1000 motes for 100 figments, or whatever SSG/Bullroarer feedback indicated would be appropriate.
Motes continue to come from disenchanting certain gear acquired in-game in addition to gear from Traveller's Lootboxes.
The Motes of Enchantment cap is being increased to 500,000 with Update 32.




Figments of Splendour:


Figments of Splendour continue to be used to barter for cosmetics. Rotate available cosmetics through the Figments vendors over time.
New cosmetic items will be more expensive than existing items when they are first introduced.
The Figments of Splendour cap is being increased to 20,000 with Update 32.




Thank you for your time in reading this and I as one insignificant part of the playerbase look forward to seeing what SSG has to suggest for the future.

[Uroc]

I asked myself same question. But even after all this feedback they keep on with lootboxes. Look at event schedule: "+10% Lootbox Embers/Motes", "+25% Lootbox Embers/Motes"... days.

Only if they give us again free keys that would be ok.

[Sovereign50]

Are you a writer? This is beautifully written .

Unfortunately I can't take credit, as Daniyel has noted. My opinion is it's a memorable scene and highly evocative for that medium.

If the the endgame playerbase survives these changes, you will still be parted. If Greed is defeated and Black Steel Keys return and all that you hope for comes true you will still have to taste the bitterness of mortality.

Lovely addition! While we often laud Tolkien's original works most highly here (and for good reason), we can still celebrate the adaptation. I've always loved the quote and the scene it is from, I just never figured i'd be using it in this context.