Mission Data Collection

[Vuldyn]

Hey all!

I have been curious recently about how to be most efficient with mission completions for the weekly wrappers. I am putting together a spreadsheet with my findings, but until I have data on every mission, I thought people might be interested in submitting data of their own.
If you want to contribute, please use the form below. No personal data is collected (character name and server is optional). All times should be recorded from the start of the instance until you reach the reward chest.

Thanks for any submissions!

https://forms.gle/FLatrNPxLdQnbznXA

[Braer]

Might need a time of day/night and pops at the time and include the npc wait time to hand in for a more useful dataset. One I'd like to see anyway. With so much variance in character gearing and competence/strategy employed is it more a leader board than anything else? The time to start the next one and what means you employ to reduce it has more of a barring on my time to knock out the fifteen.

Burg and Champ on their choice set of ten WoTP missions (at the right time of day) were 12 to 15 minutes to hit the old 10 instance barrier. But if doing all 45 for the week you can't be so choosey. Add in playing them on a number of characters you want to be doing different missions just for some variety. I can't go in all guns blazing at my time of life for every run. Throw in 100+ char with maxed ILIs and your data can really get skewed.

Take Snows of Kér Bréin; my AE champ has left the instance before anything has appeared and other classes are still waiting up to 2 minutes for something to target. First time in a mission might be very different experience to your 20th run. The latter a great deal quicker I'd hope if not hampered with extensive Drama sequences, but even that gives me time to make a cuppa. I have risky as well and safe mode strategies for different missions that have significant time differences, strategies under-geared wouldn't attempt and a better geared raider might scoff at. Less geared peeps won't be killing so quickly and suffer far more from the mission variables, a significant effect to your run speed. If levelling and not gearing as you go, again you tip the balance of suffering from the special abilities more as you go without, even going from 130 to 131 has a significant change to difficulty running them on a different "balance" curve.

If the reward chest isn't at your feet at the end you should discount them for efficiency sake. Like most things in game best to come up with your own list that suits you by playing them all and making a choice on which you do best for efficiency.

[Vuldyn]

Yeah those are all great points!
I am planning for the final product to be a sheet with data to show relative efficiency as the core data point. Basically, of my options, which is the fastest?
I know the hand-in time can be variable, which is why the times are recorded from start of instance, until getting to the reward chest (sometimes running back to the start is faster than doing a long one that ends at the boss etc).
The final product will have notes on how to complete each on efficiently, if only brief, so should be useful for someone getting into it.
I will find it interesting on how the data shows difference in level if I get enough data points to work with, but I will be testing everything on a 140 Guard with decent dps gear, running with maxed AoE. That should put me somewhere in the middle for 140 efficiency.

[JERH]

There is a forum post by vr00mie that has expected time to complete that I found by personal experiences to be quite good.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...on-cheat-sheet

In my opinion there are 3 categories: burglar sneak, ranged, AoE. Different but overlapping sets. Captain is just always slow.

The wait time in many cases is more than the complete time based on the number of people in the room/zone.

Edit: most of the dots/snares/debuffs are heavily anti-melee (aka -60% melee damage) so ranged has a serious advantage in many missions outside of just dps.

[egarthur]

Hey all!

I have been curious recently about how to be most efficient with mission completions for the weekly wrappers. I am putting together a spreadsheet with my findings, but until I have data on every mission, I thought people might be interested in submitting data of their own.
If you want to contribute, please use the form below. No personal data is collected (character name and server is optional). All times should be recorded from the start of the instance until you reach the reward chest.

Thanks for any submissions!

https://forms.gle/FLatrNPxLdQnbznXA

I'll submit my raw data (for all mission sets other than Elderslade), but in addition to that, I've already done some of the downstream kind of work that you're intending to do, I think, specifically with reference to analyzing the Zhélruka missions, from a time-efficiency standpoint. Since the missions are on a rotation, this ends up being a fairly non-trivial exercise. Also, I'm trying to cover a range of objectives that folks might be trying to achieve, given different numbers of alts, different levels of time commitment, etc.

So, I've chosen to focus, for now, on just the relics awarded for the Zhélruka dailies and weeklies, ignoring any points that can be redeemed from mountain-mark redemption or from end-chest relics. It also doesn't contemplate carrying over mission quests from day to day, week to week, or resetting them with mithril coin.

Grids to follow (in a "CODE" block to try to get the columns to line up). Each "cell" of each grid contains either "skip", "once", "first", "last" or "twice". "first", "last" or "twice" are only available for the set of missions offered on a Thursday, since the same set of missions will be offered on the following Wednesday: "first" means doing the mission only the first time it is offered, "last", skipping the first time, and doing it on Wednesday, and "twice", doing it both times it's offered. I've only shown grids for 1 daily through 4 dailies (+ weekly) below, although I've computed through 7 dailies; this should be enough to chew on. The input numbers are from an as-yet small dataset -- only 5 samples per mission. I plan to gather another set of samples, but I don't expect the output to change much, in terms of sequencing, given the extreme diversity of efficiencies between the missions. If anyone is interested in my input data, or the collection of interdependent spreadsheets I used to compute the various sequences, feel free to hit me up on the LOTRO community Discord (=Egarthur), in-game as Egarthur on Evernight or Treebeard, or as Neldun on Gladden.

In case it's not obvious, the most efficient strategy for Zhélruka allegiance point acquisition -- the "sweet spot", as it were -- in terms of points/second, is to do 4 dailies, which also gets you the weekly, for 9000 points. The points/second values for that strat range from 1.52 through 1.66, depending on rotation. Any more or less dailies than that, either misses the reward for the weekly, or dilutes efficiency by forcing the player to run time-consuming missions to fill out their quota, and thus results in lower points/second values.

Rotation A = "The Sorceress of Tur Agal" is available on Thursday, after reset
Rotation B = "Servants of Throkhar" is available on Thursday, after reset
Rotation C = "Stomping Stug-and-Zar" is available on Thursday, after reset
Rotation D = "Culling the Rot" is available on Thursday, after reset
Rotation E = "Unwelcome Guests" is available on Thursday, after reset
Rotation F = "Reforge the Future" is available on Thursday, after reset

OBJECTIVE: 1 daily (=5 missions) in the course of the week, 1000 allegiance points
                                      A           B          C        D          E          F
The Sorceress of Tur Agal           twice       once       once     once       once       once
---
Stomping Stug-and-Zar               once        once       twice    once       once       once
Hall of Ice                         skip        once       skip     once       skip       skip
---
Unwelcome Guests                    once        once       once     once       twice      once
---
Reforge the Future                  once        once       once     once       once       twice

POINTS/SECOND                       1.02        0.97       1.08     0.97       1.03       0.98

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OBJECTIVE: 2 dailies (=10 missions) in the course of the week, 2000 allegiance points
                                     A           B           C        D         E          F           
The Sorceress of Tur Agal          twice       once        once     once      once       once 
Storm Swept                        skip        skip        skip     skip      skip       once
---
Servants of Throkhar               once        twice       once     once      once       once
---
Stomping Stug-and-Zar              once        once        twice    once      once       once
Hall of Ice                        once        once        twice    once      once       once
The Lost Vault                     once        once        twice    once      once       once
---
Culling the Rot                    once        once        skip     twice     once       skip
---
Unwelcome Guests                   once        once        once     once      twice      once
---
Reforge the Future                 once        once        once     once      once       twice
Breeders of Beasts                 once        once        skip     once      once       first

POINTS/SECOND                      0.86        0.83        0.90     0.83      0.86       0.84

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OBJECTIVE: 3 dailies (=15 missions) in the course of the week, 3000 allegiance points
                                     A           B           C        D         E          F           
The Sorceress of Tur Agal          twice       once        once     once      once       once 
Storm Swept                        twice       once        once     once      once       once
Drive a Wedge                      first       once        skip     once      skip       skip
Gold Rush                          first       once        skip     once      skip       skip
---
Servants of Throkhar               once        twice       once     once      once       once
---
Stomping Stug-and-Zar              once        once        twice    once      once       once
Hall of Ice                        once        once        twice    once      once       once
The Lost Vault                     once        once        twice    once      once       once
In the Trenches                    once        once        twice    once      once       once
---
Culling the Rot                    once        once        once     twice     once       once
---
Unwelcome Guests                   once        once        once     once      twice      once
Just Beyond Reach                  skip        once        skip     once      last       once
The High Dig                       skip        skip        skip     skip      last       once
King of Claws                      skip        skip        skip     skip      last       skip
---
Reforge the Future                 once        once        once     once      once       twice
Breeders of Beasts                 once        once        once     once      once       twice

POINTS/SECOND                      0.76        0.75        0.81     0.74      0.75       0.77

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OBJECTIVE: 4 dailies + weekly (=20 missions) in the course of the week, 9000 allegiance points
                                     A           B           C        D         E          F           
The Sorceress of Tur Agal          twice       once        once     once      once       once 
Storm Swept                        twice       once        once     once      once       once
Drive a Wedge                      twice       once        once     once      once       once
Gold Rush                          twice       once        once     once      once       once
Wonder of the Deep                 last        skip        once     skip      once       skip
---
Servants of Throkhar               once        twice       once     once      once       once
---
Stomping Stug-and-Zar              once        once        twice    once      once       once
Hall of Ice                        once        once        twice    once      once       once
The Lost Vault                     once        once        twice    once      once       once
In the Trenches                    once        once        twice    once      once       once
---
Culling the Rot                    once        once        once     twice     once       once
---
Unwelcome Guests                   once        once        once     once      twice      once
Just Beyond Reach                  once        once        once     once      twice      once
The High Dig                       once        once        once     once      twice      once
King of Claws                      skip        once        skip     once      last       skip
---
Reforge the Future                 once        once        once     once      once       twice
Breeders of Beasts                 once        once        once     once      once       twice
Ritual of Sacrifice                skip        once        skip     once      skip       first
Cave In!                           skip        once        skip     once      skip       first
Buried but not Forgotten           skip        once        skip     once      skip       first

POINTS/SECOND                      1.59        1.52        1.66     1.52      1.59       1.55

[Vuldyn]

There is a forum post by vr00mie that has expected time to complete that I found by personal experiences to be quite good.

https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...on-cheat-sheet

Yeah I've been using vr00mie's dataset as a starting point, which has been very helpful. Adding in the other sets of missions is my main goal, so that we can figure out how to efficiently do the 15 or 45 missions per week wrappers for embers.

[Vuldyn]

I'll submit my raw data (for all mission sets other than Elderslade), but in addition to that, I've already done some of the downstream kind of work that you're intending to do, I think, specifically with reference to analyzing the Zhélruka missions, from a time-efficiency standpoint. Since the missions are on a rotation, this ends up being a fairly non-trivial exercise. Also, I'm trying to cover a range of objectives that folks might be trying to achieve, given different numbers of alts, different levels of time commitment, etc.

Your data is really sweet! I hadn't thought to look at Zhelruka allegiance specifically, since it came so easily by doing the deed for 160 missions in Gundabad. Definitely useful for people with lots of alts though!
My main focus is getting to a point where you can look at the cheat-sheet on a given day and decide which missions you want to do to be as efficient as possible since people want to complete the 15 & 45 missions per week for embers at max lvl.
As it turns out, most of the Gundabad missions are far slower than Elderslade ones, with some exceptions.

[Once_of_Bree]

This is all fascinating and I'm amazed at the attention to detail my fellow players go in for, all I want is a nice chart by day: green - do them, amber - if you must, red - avoid.


So for me I've got: Sorceress, kill 3 trolls + 5 statues, nameless and one other as green, and ice grims, ice expedition and all vault ones in red./do once for deed never again.


Sadly none of the new missions are as amusing & quick as the drunken goblins (finally a cappy friendly mission) or dully quick as giant or various frost hobgobiln ones in previous mission sets.

[Braer]

Some of us deal with the grindy aspects of the game by applying different/better class specific tactics the more we do them and the better geared we get. Those who advocate "landscape don't need such and such" belies the efficient progress having such brings. It's those who repeat the same tired way each run who will tire of the grinds the quicker. Never listen to the don't need crowd, it's just their lack of imagination to extract the value out a thing.

The gold farmers set up mission farm chars valared and stoned for the most efficient progress (see accounts forum posting) toward their goal. Stoning at 120/130 much more efficient than drifting up to 140 when commensurate gearing isn't in place yet. Evaluating what's on the horizon with BR part of the decision making process.

[squirle]

Planning and on updating and extending data on current missions in preparation for the delving system. Did this project ever gotten to a nice dataset? Besides time to completion going to look at number of mobs to kill, objectives to interact with and perhaps distance covered (not sure how to track that besides a rough scale).

A challenge or modifier that buffs monsters will have a different effect on a click heavy mission such as Cottfast as opposed to some further adventures offcourse. Get a decent base to provide a quick "best/quickest" list for delving missions.

[egarthur]

Planning and on updating and extending data on current missions in preparation for the delving system. Did this project ever gotten to a nice dataset? Besides time to completion going to look at number of mobs to kill, objectives to interact with and perhaps distance covered (not sure how to track that besides a rough scale).

For "distance covered", you could do a /loc command periodically and capture the results in the log, parse the results afterwards. Or, get a plugin to capture the /loc output and make a nice summary, whenever you ask it to. A plugin could also pop up a quickslot for the /loc command on a timed interval. I'm not sure how useful "distance covered" is, though, given the wide disparity of speed buffs, between classes, and the fact that you're usually not covering much distance when in combat, or, if you are, it might be because of kiting, which covers distance, but doesn't result in much displacement (as my Physics professors used to delineate, between speed and velocity), i.e. it doesn't get you further along in the instance. Mob kills and elapsed time are, of course, fairly easy to capture from the log, or with a plugin.

The mental trap I always fall into, when considering the metric "mobs killed", is what do you do about scenarios where the player could choose to kill an infinite number of mobs? Off the top of my head, I'm thinking about Bilbo chapters 7 and 8, although any mission with the "never-ending" or "reinforcements" twist could qualify. When comparing infinite to infinite, it seems one has to use an additional metric, e.g. time elapsed, in order to distinguish one strategy from another.

Then there are missions like Trouble on the Brandywine, which has a fixed number of mobs and elapsed time. The only metric I can think of for that, is whether you survive or not.

A challenge or modifier that buffs monsters will have a different effect on a click heavy mission such as Cottfast as opposed to some further adventures offcourse.

That reminds me, I never did finish up and publish my "low carnage" video for the Bilbo missions. Chapter 5, for instance, can be completed without any mob kills, on any class and spec, but it required a fair amount of testing, trial-and-error, etc. to prove it. Maybe if Delving is primarily combat-based, "low carnage" or "pacifist" strategies like that, may go from mere curiosities to actual practical advice.

Get a decent base to provide a quick "best/quickest" list for delving missions.

Yes, from an optimization perspective, it will be interesting to see what challenges each level of Delving will bring. If it's just harder combat with the same amount of mobs, that's one thing, but if it's more mobs, then that affects not only time to complete, but also Reward Track progress, slayer deed progression, etc. And if it's a more complicated set of mechanics, then the optimal strategies might vary significantly from one challenge level to the next.