Taking away school traceries might be the last straw

[strethis]

I've been trying to give the product team the benefit of the doubt, but I'm pretty convinced now there just isn't a vision here. There is only reaction.

You try to take away embers as a means to fill in gear slots... which is a totally necessary thing because otherwise we can only gear by RNG. Rightfully you backed off this, though it should not have been a thought in the first place.

Now you've taken away any means for us to improve as a solo player. My kinship is fairly casual and only does 6/12 man content once a week. So on off days I would farm school to try and improve any purple traceries I still had.

As it was, this was a super tedious process given that the traceries you get are random. But at least it was a path forward that I could take. And now... I cant even do that.

So I have to ask SSG product team... what are people supposed to do when their kin isn't available for 6/12? Do you have a vision? I cant see one here. You do your forge/loft, you do your 3 solo instance lockouts and then.... what? There is no gear or upgrade to be had as a solo player.

I have no reason to login besides my weekly and the scheduled raid. Thats not a good place to be in.... that makes me just not want to log in... dont you think product team?

Maybe a featured instance meant for solo players that is challenging? Maybe allow gundabad solo instances to have a t1-t5? I can think of a dozen things to give people incentive here and there just aren't any.

[Erusen]

I've been trying to give the product team the benefit of the doubt, but I'm pretty convinced now there just isn't a vision here. There is only reaction.

I'm really afraid where this game is going. Intemization is in a really bad spot.

Remember, LI legacies where not gated in any way, they were just there in every legendary item in the world. OK, you needed to plan and do some LI farming to get all you need and some RNG was present (since you had 7 chances and each LI to get the legacy you wanted).

Now, there is no way to get Teal (and god forbid Golden) tracery. Not the one you want, just random drops and very little on the reward track. Oh, and also the lootbox gamble - spend many keys to get a chance in one or two cracked tracery token.

You have many solutions... the simplest one... increase the number of cracked tracery tokens needed to barter for a tracery - like to 10. Now - in addition to current loot and random tracery - drop one teal cracked token (you will need 10 to barter) in every instance and put the cracked golden token on the places that drops the golden tracery. Also, put one teal in the last reward (repeteable) of the reward tracker, so the solo players will get them by doing quest and solo stuff. You have your grind, we have our traceries. You can even put a 1/10th gold cracked token in every lootbox, so instead of RNG chances every player will get a tracery on the 10th box. And now you have even your monetization.

Or put them on the barter for motes and embers. Or all that together. Is that so hard?

[Trixie_Me]

As it was, this was a super tedious process given that the traceries you get are random. But at least it was a path forward that I could take. And now... I cant even do that.

So I have to ask SSG product team... what are people supposed to do when their kin isn't available for 6/12? Do you have a vision? I cant see one here. You do your forge/loft, you do your 3 solo instance lockouts and then.... what? There is no gear or upgrade to be had as a solo player.

I have no reason to login besides my weekly and the scheduled raid. Thats not a good place to be in.... that makes me just not want to log in... dont you think product team?

It's clear from their plans for embers that they really don't care if solo players log in regularly. Yes, I know they backtracked on those plans, but if you watch fairly recent interviews, you can see they believe the problem was not with the changes but how they were articulated (or not articulated) to the player base. Apparently, earning a new piece of gear every 2.5 weeks was just over the top, according to Raninia.

In short, they inexplicably feel that most of us don't need a path forward.

[Rylnconn]

I've been trying to give the product team the benefit of the doubt, but I'm pretty convinced now there just isn't a vision here. There is only reaction.

You try to take away embers as a means to fill in gear slots... which is a totally necessary thing because otherwise we can only gear by RNG. Rightfully you backed off this, though it should not have been a thought in the first place.

Now you've taken away any means for us to improve as a solo player. My kinship is fairly casual and only does 6/12 man content once a week. So on off days I would farm school to try and improve any purple traceries I still had.

As it was, this was a super tedious process given that the traceries you get are random. But at least it was a path forward that I could take. And now... I cant even do that.

So I have to ask SSG product team... what are people supposed to do when their kin isn't available for 6/12? Do you have a vision? I cant see one here. You do your forge/loft, you do your 3 solo instance lockouts and then.... what? There is no gear or upgrade to be had as a solo player.

I have no reason to login besides my weekly and the scheduled raid. Thats not a good place to be in.... that makes me just not want to log in... dont you think product team?

Maybe a featured instance meant for solo players that is challenging? Maybe allow gundabad solo instances to have a t1-t5? I can think of a dozen things to give people incentive here and there just aren't any.

There in lies ssgs problem . It has become self evident over the last 18 months if not more that ssg , as a whole has no idea how "We" the players actually play this game . It's been one step forward two steps back for awhile now .
This latest debacle is a prime example . Trully I'm not sure how ssg factors its checks and balances and how they report to the board of directors . But in the kinship I'm part of which amounts to 43 players fully 16 of them have went to f2p and absolutely refuse to fund this game .
I'm not saying all kinships are doing the same thing , but I do know that more players are going that route .
especially with the new f2p " perks" soon to arrive . Being vip has lost all its value .
Theres nothing to spend the horrendous amount of Lp on any more ? Its been over a year since any valars were offered at discount ?
Aside from the town services and mail . Those are perks many can live with out , myself included .
Thier business plan is flawed , and they know it .
Thats why we see these knee jerk reactions .
We can watch all the Cord live streams and all the Rani posts in the world . But they refuse to acknowledge the " elephant in the room " which is They have no clue how we play this game .

[danquanngaytho]

We are on the same page. I feel disappointed that the last boss from school drops nothing let alone useful traceries. Is it the end of LOTRO?

[Fr0striven]

Wait, you no longer get any traceries at all??? I haven't had a chance to run since the update.

[danquanngaytho]

Wait, you no longer get any traceries at all??? I haven't had a chance to run since the update.

On Tier 1, first boss gives yellow rune and second boss gives 1 random purple tracery. Last boss gives no tracery at all.

[Fr0striven]

On Tier 1, first boss gives yellow rune and second boss gives 1 random purple tracery. Last boss gives no tracery at all.

Wow, that is horrible. Guess I'll never run that again on any toons.

Hard to imagine SSG saying they have too much to work on, but then an actual developer is spending time to gimp one of the last few things that can be done to enhance LIs ...

[Braer]

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

It's their thinking they have the first clue that's our problem now. An open world game deserves the freedom to choose our own path. Your don't hire a blind guide just because they profess to be excited to be involved in your expedition and has an idea on the path to take.

It's a rod of their own making. Pity they can't recycle it like much of their content into a replacement backbone. They've been duped by the sycophants too long.

With all around professing knowledge and absolving themselves of any responsibility how do you get to anywhere better?

What "works" for them is sheep oblivious to the slaughter to come or a "community" to foster into peer pressure to buy.

[strethis]

It's clear from their plans for embers that they really don't care if solo players log in regularly. Yes, I know they backtracked on those plans, but if you watch fairly recent interviews, you can see they believe the problem was not with the changes but how they were articulated (or not articulated) to the player base. Apparently, earning a new piece of gear every 2.5 weeks was just over the top, according to Raninia.

In short, they inexplicably feel that most of us don't need a path forward.

I really hope this is not the case. Three weeks of weeklies to get a single upgrade is bad enough, and they legit wanted to make it worse not better.

And now there arent even any farming options...

They already have the Muta mechanic in Dhurstrok... it would take like a day of dev time to offer a rotating 3-man instance that you do solo with Muta and you actual get some upgrades from it.

[Pavlin]

I wass pissed/ stil im
So il edit my post to :

Not good change at all

[danquanngaytho]

I guess no one from SSG will pay attention to this kind of feedback like usual

In the end, we are just their disposable pawns?

[ElanorFb]

Wait - the release notes say "scaling instances have had their top end LI drops reduced to Incomparable rarity."

Is that a lie then?

[istvana]

I support SSG more often than not. For years and years I encouraged them to consider changes in the LI system along the general lines of what they finally wound up doing. Much of which I think is a big improvement.

But I must say that I generally agree with the criticisms of *how* they have done it. Enough so that I haven't even played through the expansion.

If not for the legendary servers where (at least on Treebeard and to a lesser extent on Shadowfax) the changes don't really hurt much yet I would be off to SWTOR or EQ2 or some other MMO.

[modtek]

There was a serious game-breaking exploit in the game mechanics that allowed unscrupulous players to use old instances (inc School) to farm it very quickly. This Update 32 with old instances was necessary for game balance, especially since the new Reward track system is available and it was fixed in record time. Thanks to the SSG programmers and QA for the quick response.

[strethis]

Wait - the release notes say "scaling instances have had their top end LI drops reduced to Incomparable rarity."

Is that a lie then?

Some 6 mans still can drop incomparable but the 3 mans top out at purple, and in some cases dont drop anything. There is no reason to run an old 3 man any more.

[danquanngaytho]

School has been the most farm scaling instance even before the new LI revamp. Actually, School was the only featured instance people cared to play.

This is a MMO so everyone has their own style. If someone has time and resources to play more than others, they should earn what they have deserve.

[Filloston]

There was a serious game-breaking exploit in the game mechanics that allowed unscrupulous players to use old instances (inc School) to farm it very quickly. This Update 32 with old instances was necessary for game balance, especially since the new Reward track system is available and it was fixed in record time. Thanks to the SSG programmers and QA for the quick response.

...and what about the rest of us who needed School and Library to have decent shot at teal traceries? Why not fix the exploit? Since real life for me makes getting guaranteed uninterrupted blocks of time difficult, my ability to do larger instances is limited. I mostly rely on what I can get solo or in short 3-person instances.

The change to the tracery drops really hurts.

[strethis]

School has been the most farm scaling instance even before the new LI revamp. Actually, School was the only featured instance people cared to play.

This is a MMO so everyone has their own style. If someone has time and resources to play more than others, they should earn what they have deserve.

What does that have to do with it? Of course you play more you earn more.

But as it stands now, there is nothing a solo player can do to get upgrades other than do your weekly and wait 3 weeks to buy a piece.

It used to be a cool little source of pride that you could solo old 3man content by yourself, even though it was challenging, and have a chance at a teal tracery for it. That was literally the only thing left for solo play that followed the paradigm "high challenge = high reward". Now there is only do your weekly, log off and wait.

This is not good game design.

[danquanngaytho]

Recently, there are rumor about some kind of new accounts were created to defend unreasonable decisions from SSG. Just ignoring them.

[danquanngaytho]

What does that have to do with it? Of course you play more you earn more.

But as it stands now, there is nothing a solo player can do to get upgrades other than do your weekly and wait 3 weeks to buy a piece.

It used to be a cool little source of pride that you could solo old 3man content by yourself, even though it was challenging, and have a chance at a teal tracery for it. That was literally the only thing left for solo play that followed the paradigm "high challenge = high reward". Now there is only do your weekly, log off and wait.

This is not good game design.

That answer is for the "account" that defended SSG's weird decision. I am on the same page with you.

[Fadil]

I've been trying to give the product team the benefit of the doubt, but I'm pretty convinced now there just isn't a vision here. There is only reaction.

You try to take away embers as a means to fill in gear slots... which is a totally necessary thing because otherwise we can only gear by RNG. Rightfully you backed off this, though it should not have been a thought in the first place.

Now you've taken away any means for us to improve as a solo player. My kinship is fairly casual and only does 6/12 man content once a week. So on off days I would farm school to try and improve any purple traceries I still had.

As it was, this was a super tedious process given that the traceries you get are random. But at least it was a path forward that I could take. And now... I cant even do that.

I will NEVER understand people on this forum...never.:P
For months the central argument people made against the new LI system was that people who didn't have old LI's to appraise (and thus get enough teal tokens) had to farm school.
Now we have the reward track, which gives you 6 teal tokens and 3 gold tokens (as in not random: a tracery by choice) and people are convinced there is some evil mastermind at work, trying to take away their beloved grind.
How was your path forward taken from you, when you get a free 9 traceries (teal and gold) you can actually pick?

[modtek]

That answer is for the "account" that defended SSG's weird decision. I am on the same page with you.

If you dont want to hear the explanation of such decisions, then what is the point of discussing them here then? In this case, it was necessary to make the optimal decision as soon as possible, and it was made. It's an mmo game and it keeps changing.

[Snowlock]

I will NEVER understand people on this forum...never.:P
For months the central argument people made against the new LI system was that people who didn't have old LI's to appraise (and thus get enough teal tokens) had to farm school.
Now we have the reward track, which gives you 6 teal tokens and 3 gold tokens (as in not random: a tracery by choice) and people are convinced there is some evil mastermind at work, trying to take away their beloved grind.
How was your path forward taken from you, when you get a free 9 traceries (teal and gold) you can actually pick?

It's almost like they're different people..

[Filloston]

How was your path forward taken from you, when you get a free 9 traceries (teal and gold) you can actually pick?

1) My main is only level 106. Between the weapon and class item, there are already 17 tracery slots to fill. All of them need to be replaced every other tracery tier. That's not counting alts. The RT does not even begin to replace School and Library as sources of teal and gold traceries (I've only gotten one of those ever, and it was useless.)

2. The RT, according to the devs, was intended to be supplemental and not as the main way to advance your LIs, so pointing to the RT as a counter-balance to nerfing loot from 3-person instances goes against the logic behind the RT. See Raninia's comments: https://forums.lotro.com/forums/show...29#post8122329