Opening up epic Middle Earth fights to non-raiders

[Arnenna]

No, not everyone runs 3 and 6 mans. There are many, many people that still run solo only.
I would LOVE to see solo versions for all quests. I believe it has to be a choice, if you want to run group quests fine, more power to you, I choose to run solo, why should I be excluded from parts of the story?

Sorry, I probably didn't explain it very well. Pre Mordor, it was only people running the 3 and 6 man instances in groups. Mordor and post Mordor, nearly all players are playing the instances, because they all have solo versions. All the evidence that they need to see that people want it is already happening in game with group players playing Gundabad instances as groups and soloists playing them solo. The raid would be the same.

[OldMadeOfLions]

Anyways, what you doing working Saturdays.... the Anniversary must have you all busy busy busy...

One of the advantages of remote work is that I don't need to drive to the office anymore when the mood strikes me, I just have to come downstairs. That's probably a disadvantage too.

And if they doubt it still, simple solution: Do a Vote Poll for 1 Month and Advertise it constantly to get as many folks voting on it as possible.

I think people sometimes underestimate how much we can tell about the thoughts of the playerbase from all sorts of sources. The results of a poll like that would not be particularly surprising to us at this point!

I kind of think that the folks who create raids would maybe relish the challenge of creating the raid experience for a solo player...

Oh, we all multitask -- raid designers have worked on landscape content, and landscape designers have worked on dungeons. It's just that when there's a raid to make, I think we want the raid designers to not be splitting their focus in that way.

It could be for everyone (20-140) if you made it scale like Big Battles. Kind of like a skraid with an unlimited number of players that any one can participate in. Completion helps tick a deed tier (1/4?) and open up a next tier to do the same. Rewards are based on level and tier completions. This also opens up ember-barterers to everyone because everyone can play. Perhaps a quest can be done to make it available at every reflection pool for 10 minutes and a world broadcast.

With each sentence it became more and more work to do, and moved further away from the initial idea of opening up the story beats of a raid to solo players. Are you sure you're not a game designer? That happens to us too!

MoL

[WeirdJedi]

is it any wonder that most folks solo with maybe the exception of some kin runs but then they can be hard to organise because kin folks also want to exceed in their capabilities and move through the tiers and so they are limited to odd evenings put aside to help out and as good as that is, it does lend itself to feel like pity help... and nobody wants that.

Before a guide was posted on the forums, I recall one time trying to figure out the mechanics of the bosses in Remmorchant. When I searched for a video, there was only one that I could find that had audio included that wasn't sped-up. I had a good laugh, because it replicated in its 4-hours almost every single problem we would have as a kinship: spending 20 minutes trying to fill the raid, being confused on what killed them a bunch of times, waiting 5 minutes here-and-there because of people losing connection, giving someone 5 minutes to let their dogs out, letting someone have 5 minutes because they spilled their drink, occasionally spending 10 minutes trying to replace a few members that had to leave, etc. Since this was before the VIP benefits in Update 27.1, they even had to break to repair.

Casual kinships see raids, or higher-tiered instances, as the places to go for rewards. Since these types of kinships are generally filled with folk who view grouping up as a social event, the need to get these rewards in order to climb up the tiers is much greater than the serious gamers who already learned what to do from the notes on Bullroarer. That's probably why we like skirmish raids so much. They are easy enough to ignore missing players or wrong classes without worrying about chest locks or playing for too long.

[Bothketbog]

I guess what I'm asking is if a Storied Tale that gives you a replacement for the raid experience is the type of thing you want, or if that wouldn't scratch the same itch: because at its heart that wouldn't feel very much like the original raid, even if it covers the same beats.

MoL

Firstly, thanks for your participation here in the forums. Second, I think this is an elegant solution to the OP's question. I'm sure it means a lot of work for somebody (more likely somebodies) but you wouldn't really have to reprogram the raid itself, just make a copy and edit it? I don't mean to oversimplify the process...

[Loox]

One of the advantages of remote work is that I don't need to drive to the office anymore when the mood strikes me, I just have to come downstairs. That's probably a disadvantage too.



I think people sometimes underestimate how much we can tell about the thoughts of the playerbase from all sorts of sources. The results of a poll like that would not be particularly surprising to us at this point!



Oh, we all multitask -- raid designers have worked on landscape content, and landscape designers have worked on dungeons. It's just that when there's a raid to make, I think we want the raid designers to not be splitting their focus in that way.



With each sentence it became more and more work to do, and moved further away from the initial idea of opening up the story beats of a raid to solo players. Are you sure you're not a game designer? That happens to us too!

MoL

I understand it would be a big scope. But the uniqueness about it is you can start it with just 1. I think raids and the similar as part of the story that to often gets skipped or becomes to trivial. This creates another reason to do them and experience large battles, without barriers.

[TearMaker]

Look, if you can do something going forward to allow solo players to get the feel of a place and see the climax to important plot lines and narrative, it would be greatly appreciated.

NOW>>>> Spill some beans about the anniversary.... we won't tell anyone else .... honest!

[spaltung]

At this point I have to ask if you did the Epics in Gundabad, and do you actually read any quest dialogue as you play? Do you remember how the Epic ended and where? Do you understand how stories work? They have a beginning, a lengthy mid section and an end. Most of us who appreciate the story lines knew it would be Hrimil and that it would be somewhere hidden in the region that we last saw her - the Welken Lofts. Anything else would have been so random and wouldn't have made any sense at all. And pray tell, why would she look any different for this final chapter than she has before? That would make as much sense to the story as finding a spider as the final boss of a story covering two major updates all about a dragon. Hrimil is based on a character who deems herself as the untouchable matriarch, the top dog, and a major influence on all that hear her voice - she wouldn't wear armour, deeming it unnecessary. You would know this, if you had taken in any of the major points on this story line as you levelled through it.

Hrimil's fight on lofts happens on his "mind" (another instance like pughlak), so, that could be anywhere... even dwarf-holds. but they kept rehashing the same area (that you see every day on lofts daily) for a 3rd time.

i'd prefer the whole fight happened on the "outside" (the room with tons of gold) rather than that whole awful instance within an instance.

Yes, there are many of us that have had enough of the Dwarven story line, but if it had concluded with some random, non story related, novelty thing, there would have been bitter disappointment.

I find it ironic that you claim to have spent months levelling and gearing up to get your first taste of a raid in LOTRO, then when you get it, you seem clueless to the story involved and why the raid is set where it needs to be. The raid was announced long before the patch, the patch just let us know it was arriving. Guess you missed that too along with all the other markers and clues on what the raid would be about.

When a game company want to turn the game into a solo experience, they errmmmm, don't make raids.

Maybe it is time you moved on, or alternatively, understand that this game is based, very deeply, around stories that have that beginning, mid section and end.

but they still push for a solid fragmented group-based role for each class.

which is nuts at this point. better dissolve all classes and let players be whatever they want to capitalize on solo experience.

i don't mind solo experience. i like runescape.

what i don't like is having a game built like WoW with classes and roles that only function properly through groups and then having a full solo experience in which classes and roles are not relevant at all because there's no focus on it and the current raid system is corrupted and depricated towards solo experience.

i'd prefer to have a solo experience with a solo character composition in which my toon can be whatever it wants and scale through different forms of solo instances with higher difficulties like Tztok Jad in Runescape through Inferno. which are solo instances that scale in difficulty because a player is not determinated by a class and role.


here you are determinated by a class and role and you've a solo experience that does not scale in difficulty.

which makes the game a walking simulator, as someone else said.

[TearMaker]

i don't mind solo experience. i like runescape.

what i don't like is having a game built like WoW with classes and roles that only function properly through groups and then having a full solo experience in which classes and roles are not relevant at all because there's no focus on it and the current raid system is corrupted and depricated towards solo experience.

If I understand you correctly, and it has taken this long to get to the nub, you are bemoaning the point that because the raids are built using mechanics that encourage differences within the classes but that a new player will solo until they get to 140 and then not be skilled enough to compete expertly in a raid as a fully functioning member of the group?

Good point but no matter what, people will be people... they will take the path of least resistance.

The issue you should maybe getting at is when at the level cap and then encouraging new players, whether that be new to the game or new to that class, to join group play and learn their craft then.

Problems is again people will be people and they don't want to help to make a better server for them in the long run. All they can think of is the now and the quick runs...

Hence all you hear is "quick run - no ANON - must have good gear" and those players either don't get an invite or they get kicked..... THIS is the problem you maybe could address instead of putting it all onto the devs and the game.

[shino047]

No one is a "non-raider" in this game, where classes are designed for group synergy. Just read all your skill descriptions again, especially those that you never used while playing alone, and just join a t1 raid

[Harvain]

No one is a "non-raider" in this game, where classes are designed for group synergy. Just read all your skill descriptions again, especially those that you never used while playing alone, and just join a t1 raid

Plenty of non-raiders as there are plenty who don't actively even want to engage in said Content.

The bigger issue is how both the Entry of that Content and how Group Content as a whole is handled.

It's not friendly to encourage and build folks up to doing Entry Content because: We're in Month 5 of the Level 140 Content Era and have 3 Instances & 1 Raid. It took until Month 4 of the Level 140 Content Era to have the Raid.

By Month 8/9 of the Level 140 Content Era we might have 6 Instances & 2 Raids? Maybe? Which Month 8 would be June 2022 & Month 9 would be July 2022.

We don't even know until LOTRO Producer Raninia March Quarterly Letter what is coming for the Months of April to June.

[Arnenna]

Hrimil's fight on lofts happens on his "mind" (another instance like pughlak), so, that could be anywhere... even dwarf-holds. but they kept rehashing the same area (that you see every day on lofts daily) for a 3rd time.

i'd prefer the whole fight happened on the "outside" (the room with tons of gold) rather than that whole awful instance within an instance.

If it had taken place in the Dwarf Holds, it would still be a rehash. Anvil took place there and many players ran it to death, so that would be very repetitive for them. It makes sense for the new raid to end where we saw Hrimil last in the story - so Gundabad. Granted, the instance could have taken place in the outside room, but then, that would kinda reduce flow.

but they still push for a solid fragmented group-based role for each class.

which is nuts at this point. better dissolve all classes and let players be whatever they want to capitalize on solo experience.

i don't mind solo experience. i like runescape.

what i don't like is having a game built like WoW with classes and roles that only function properly through groups and then having a full solo experience in which classes and roles are not relevant at all because there's no focus on it and the current raid system is corrupted and depricated towards solo experience.

i'd prefer to have a solo experience with a solo character composition in which my toon can be whatever it wants and scale through different forms of solo instances with higher difficulties like Tztok Jad in Runescape through Inferno. which are solo instances that scale in difficulty because a player is not determinated by a class and role.


here you are determinated by a class and role and you've a solo experience that does not scale in difficulty.

which makes the game a walking simulator, as someone else said.

Why would the game choose to abandon classes and roles and concentrate on a solo experience only? The game caters for both soloists and group players the way it is now. It still takes 12 people to go into the raid, and those 12 people have to play together and coordinate their efforts to beat it. I don't know where you get the idea that the current raid system is catering to solo experience - it isn't, and it never has. Sure we have story mode now on t1, but nobody can solo it. Non raiders often can't even complete it in a full group, because it's not true story mode and the difficulty is set too high for complete non raiders. If you're saying that you wish the game to either be all about grouping and only grouping, or all about soloing and only soloing, that's never going to happen. And Thank goodness for that. This game has always catered to both. You complain often about the lack of players in the game, but if the game went one-direction, either group focused or solo focused, there would be a lot less players around. If they go group focused only, all the solo players would leave, as there would nothing here for them, and if the game went solo focused only, all the players that enjoy grouping would leave, because there would be nothing here for them. There are some players that want world scaling for sure, but there are a lot more than don't want it. This isn't WoW.

[Beltharas]

FWIW, in over 10 years in this game I don't think I've ever seen a post in World chat asking someone to lead some first-timers through T1 of the current raid. I, for one, would likely respond to a request like that (if I had the time). There are a lot of good-hearted people with connections to enough end-gamers to run just about anyone through, if they just want to see what raiding is like. Casual gamers don't need to form a group themselves and then try to figure out how to lead it; just ask in World for help, be honest that it is your first time in the raid, and ask questions when anything isn't clear. You might need to wade through some trolls (world-chat trolls, not just the monsters in the raid), but I bet there are a lot of kins and end-game groups that would be willing to help

[TearMaker]

FWIW, in over 10 years in this game I don't think I've ever seen a post in World chat asking someone to lead some first-timers through T1 of the current raid. I, for one, would likely respond to a request like that (if I had the time). There are a lot of good-hearted people with connections to enough end-gamers to run just about anyone through, if they just want to see what raiding is like. Casual gamers don't need to form a group themselves and then try to figure out how to lead it; just ask in World for help, be honest that it is your first time in the raid, and ask questions when anything isn't clear. You might need to wade through some trolls (world-chat trolls, not just the monsters in the raid), but I bet there are a lot of kins and end-game groups that would be willing to help

Let us spin your observation on its head. How many times have you shouted out in World chat stating you are willing to run newer players through the concepts of raiding at T1? And stated that it doesn't matter if your gear isn't raid worthy because by learning to group you will naturally earn better gear?

Well, I have never seen that conversation outside a kinship or alliance chat.

I am not inferring that you wouldn't or maybe haven't but it certainly isn't the norm nowadays. 2007 through 2011 it very much was the norm to see folks helping out newer players and don't get me wrong the selfish players were there also... it just seems that as the years have gone by... the playing for self outweighs very much the kind hearted spirit.

[Arnenna]

FWIW, in over 10 years in this game I don't think I've ever seen a post in World chat asking someone to lead some first-timers through T1 of the current raid. I, for one, would likely respond to a request like that (if I had the time). There are a lot of good-hearted people with connections to enough end-gamers to run just about anyone through, if they just want to see what raiding is like. Casual gamers don't need to form a group themselves and then try to figure out how to lead it; just ask in World for help, be honest that it is your first time in the raid, and ask questions when anything isn't clear. You might need to wade through some trolls (world-chat trolls, not just the monsters in the raid), but I bet there are a lot of kins and end-game groups that would be willing to help

I saw a similar type of request on my server just last night. Not for the raid, but for a 6 man from the OD cluster as they were "getting creamed". That probably doesn't have that much to do with lack of experience as it does to bad scaling, because that cluster's scaling is completely off, but the call was there. As far as I'm aware, they didn't find anyone to step in, and that too was probably because players know how badly it's scaled.

[Vilan]

About... 2 years ago? Yeah, shortly after the cap went to 130. I tried to get a PUG going for Anvil T1, as I had never had the chance to run it. My expectations were very low, but to my complete astonishment, I not only got a whole group together, but one of them was a very kind player who said they had beat it "thousands of times on T3" who came along to give advice. We slowly advanced through, but after wiping several times on the last boss, a few players said they would try just one more time... and we beat it! Much hooting and hollering ensued. I couldn't tell you what loot I got, but I CAN tell you it's probably my favorite LOTRO memory. And it wouldn't have happened if a complete stranger hadn't tagged along to set us straight.

[Lomei]

I have been following this thread with interest. I am something of an "in-between" player. I play mainly to experience the journey, but I slowly work my way to the level cap and slowly grind for equipment in order to get to some end-game experiences. The problem, from my point of view, is that by the time I'm adequately geared for a raid, there is either a new (more difficult) raid and/or the level cap is raised. I'm then left to try to scrounge 11 other players to run old content.

I'm going to suggest adding a new level called "T0" (tier zero) to every raid (or even for fellowship/6-mans). This level should be able to be completed by a group of casual players of the appropriate level playing with gear collected by running the solo content of the region (or even--dare I dream--crafted gear of the applicable level). T0 would have the following attributes:

• Don't change the mechanics, but simply lower mobs' morale and reduce how hard they hit.
• T0 would offer few, if any, rewards.
• T0 would not be introduced until after a period of time after true raiders had the opportunity to discover, learn, and master the new content. Perhaps introduce T0 at the same time T5 is released.
• In a T0 raid, add cues to help guide players through the mechanics. For instance, make the cocoons 'glow' in Shelob (B2? B3?) at the appropriate time. Highlight the boss' corruption icons as they stack--or even display a text message to the effect "The boss is stacking corruptions--remove them!" Guide players if they should need to move to a particular area, group up (distributed damage attack) or face a certain direction.

I know the final point seems like a lot of hand-holding (and extra work for the devs) for the 'care bears' in the game. I suggest that there are a significant number of players that might otherwise skip raiding altogether because they are intimidated by the complexity or don't want to bother grinding for ember gear who might be enticed to work toward difficult group content once they can understand the mechanics and gain some confidence that they could complete the raid. It cannot be denied that it takes a lot of time and work to get a toon raid-ready. What is worse is that many won't bother trying because they have been frustrated by the experience of spending a half-hour or longer in a raid only to wipe again and again and never understanding why.

[Itharas]

I guess what I'm asking is if a Storied Tale that gives you a replacement for the raid experience is the type of thing you want, or if that wouldn't scratch the same itch: because at its heart that wouldn't feel very much like the original raid, even if it covers the same beats.

This (or something similar) would be great. For me, I don't mind waiting until I can put together a group (or level a few times and try to underman things) to get the mechanical game-play experience of a raid, but it's frustrating for the storyline to say "Go do this raid now" and not be able to for whatever reason, especially when it's an instance like Anvil or the Pelennor Fields cluster that include events which have a noticeable impact on the storyline moving forward.

[gildhur]

The problem is that both of those things is a ton of work, and having someone do that work means they're not working on something else, or if they are they're piling up a lot of crunch. If it's a feature you want, then of course you'll say it's worth it, but it's really not that simple. I worked nights and weekends on the Storied Tales for Helm's Deep for half a year in addition to my normal workload, for instance, and reaction to those varied from "Why did you bother?" to "I guess it's okay for people who want it." So making alternative versions of things isn't always a home run.

This is one of the most important paragraphs ever written about this game in its 15 year history.

Every player request, like the 3 pages of this thread (and countless threads over the years about similar things) demanding "just make a solo version", is based on a complete misunderstanding of just how much work goes into every aspect of the game, whether it's ultimately successful or not.

Keep up the good work, MoL. If someone has time for this kind of thing, great! If not, players of almost any ability can already PUG raids in this game if they really want to (I do all the time).

[spaltung]

Why would the game choose to abandon classes and roles and concentrate on a solo experience only? The game caters for both soloists and group players the way it is now. It still takes 12 people to go into the raid, and those 12 people have to play together and coordinate their efforts to beat it. I don't know where you get the idea that the current raid system is catering to solo experience - it isn't, and it never has. Sure we have story mode now on t1, but nobody can solo it. Non raiders often can't even complete it in a full group, because it's not true story mode and the difficulty is set too high for complete non raiders. If you're saying that you wish the game to either be all about grouping and only grouping, or all about soloing and only soloing, that's never going to happen. And Thank goodness for that. This game has always catered to both. You complain often about the lack of players in the game, but if the game went one-direction, either group focused or solo focused, there would be a lot less players around. If they go group focused only, all the solo players would leave, as there would nothing here for them, and if the game went solo focused only, all the players that enjoy grouping would leave, because there would be nothing here for them. There are some players that want world scaling for sure, but there are a lot more than don't want it. This isn't WoW.

i ask myself a similar question.

why would the game bother with classes and roles if SSG pushes hardly on solo content up until last tiers for endgame?

by the time each player gets to lv 140 they didn't engage in any form of 3man, 6man or 12man dungeon while leveling for any past stage they were at because the game's focus is huge on solo and individual content.

there are so many levels that finding 1 dungeon for your current lv at 50, 25, 20 or 58 might take you a couple of days.

people advertise for a 6man lv25 dungeon for 30, 40 mins or 1 hour only being able to recruit 1 or 0 players within the spectrum needed for that specific dungeon.



not even in WoW classic this was a thing because people had to do dungeons to get rare gear that was useful for the next 10 levels during open world questing, open world grinding or other dungeons.

if you were in greys or greens from quests you could get killed easily with an elite or challenging quest. so getting blues from dungeons made things way easier.

in Lotro greys are blues from WoW classic. and LIs are like legendary weapons like Thunderfury or Ragnaros' mace, or Shadowmourne.

in other words, you're invincible during leveling, so, no reason to gear up or get ahead because there's no difficulty to overcome, and no reason to run dungeons to gear up.


then, WoW added Random dungeon finder in WotLK to facilitate pugs through 80 levels. because blizz realized that there were so many levels.

they gave extra rewards for RDF so people actually had a reason to pair up and find groups to run random instances.


here, players from lv 20 to 140 can get faster and easier gear from doing quests and solo content.

leveling content has no difficulty so no need to even improve gear at all.

there's no auto-pug that conducts player into each other, so they just advertise a lv 25 instance for an hour on LFF until they give up for good and accept the huge solo agenda for leveling.

no reason to even learn abilities because, again, leveling content is non-lethal and soloable for any class.


why would anyone ever bother losing tons of time, exp, ixp, gear and time engaging in group instances while leveling if they can get much more from easier and more rewarding content with solo and individual leveling?

there's no reason or meaning for group instances until tier 3 lv 140 content. because that's where the game starts to get hard.

[Loox]

"0there's no reason or meaning for group instances until tier 3 lv 140 content. because that's where the game starts to get hard."

If you play the game mostly for end-game trinkets and titles, you have a point.

Not everybody plays for the same reasons. Some for the story, some for the adventures, it's become a social enjoyment, and more.

Whether you are VIP, Micro-payments, lifer, or anything in between, we all buy the expansion packs for the content. All of it.

Making more content available to more people and play styles surely will help with retention. Especially if it's in an expansion pack.

Finding a way to bridge that, so everyone can have fun, would be a good thing

[spaltung]

If you play the game mostly for end-game trinkets and titles, you have a point.

not at all, what i've said is that there's no reason to do group content until lv 140 t3 because gear do not scale to difficulty, instances do not have enough people in any level range to be launched (good luck finding enough people to fill a 6man while leveling. it might take you a couple of days),

and also most of the rewards needed are already given by quests and solo content.

so, you could just gear up from 1 to 140 t2 only running solo instances which are way faster to run (no need to wait on people), do not require any difficulty (you don't have to learn how to use your abilities or role in a group), gives better rewards (by the time it takes to finish a dungeon group run for 3man or 6man, you can get way more rewards from doing stuff on solo content).

Not everybody plays for the same reasons. Some for the story, some for the adventures, it's become a social enjoyment, and more.

sure.

Whether you are VIP, Micro-payments, lifer, or anything in between, we all buy the expansion packs for the content. All of it.

Making more content available to more people and play styles surely will help with retention. Especially if it's in an expansion pack.

Finding a way to bridge that, so everyone can have fun, would be a good thing

yeah, the problem is when SSG has 20 people working on a huge project like Lotro and not being able to fulfill many of these play styles efficiently, like:

- PvMP.
- skirmishes.
- epic battles.
- mounted combat.
- group content while leveling.


i'd say group content while leveling is even more relevant because the game is supposed to be a based on roles and classes that are mostly relevant in a group context and not outside of it.

so, to undermine group content on one of the most intrinsic qualities of their own game (class & role based) until lv 140 t3 just shows that devs are not focusing attention and resources the right way.

and they've probably caused it, by giving a bad group experience in the past, like forcing players to pair up in the open world through epic quest and quests in general. which is not an ideal form of group content and makes people hate not moving on through the game because they cannot find other people to finish a quest.

making obstacles it's not the same as promoting and rewarding one form of playstyle.

[Arnenna]

so, you could just gear up from 1 to 140 t2 only running solo instances which are way faster to run (no need to wait on people), do not require any difficulty (you don't have to learn how to use your abilities or role in a group), gives better rewards (by the time it takes to finish a dungeon group run for 3man or 6man, you can get way more rewards from doing stuff on solo content).

Instances pre-Mordor are not available in solo version. Solo dungeons started at level 115. Not sure where you're going with that, again, it all points to you having not played the game at all. There are skirmishes, but they don't award gear. There are missions, which were introduced as a levelling substitute for landscape questing, but they don't award gear either really, just some barterable pieces here and there, not enough to gear a character with. Solo players tend to use a variety of mission gear, crafted gear and quest rewards. That is their lane and they like it that way. Those that do not - evidently, you are in that camp, find ways to group up with others and play differently. Think of it like going into a new pub on a Friday night. There are other people in there that went in alone. You can site quietly in a corner, meet nobody and leave alone, or you can mingle, approach others, have a drink or two and end up sitting at a table for 6 at the local chinese restaurant. Choices!

At some point, you're going to have to get used to the fact that your experience levelling is not the only experience in the game. There are a lot more players than just you. There are a lot more servers than the server you play on, experiences of levelling vary a lot. Mine is completely different to yours. There are many players that use world instances to level up. They don't run landscape at all.

So you had a hard time grouping while levelling. That isn't the fault of anyone else. You are playing on a quiet server - by choice. You are not actively seeking companionship in kinships or friends - by choice. To want to rely on PUGs through old content, you should have at the very least chosen a busy server of maybe one of the legendary servers - that is what they are designed for.

To do a complete 180 now, and ask for the game to become a solo only experience, just because you can't seem to get everyone to agree with your first choice of world scaling and forced grouping, is rather selfish to those that make the choice to find a way to group up.

[spaltung]

Instances pre-Mordor are not available in solo version. Solo dungeons started at level 115. Not sure where you're going with that, again, it all points to you having not played the game at all.

i didn't mention solo dungeons, i've said solo instances, which involve epic quests, skirmishes and also epic battles at lv 100 which are soloable too, also solo dungeons 115+.

There are skirmishes, but they don't award gear.

yeah, players can get gear from skirimishes with marks and medallions up to gondor gear (lv 105).

There are missions, which were introduced as a levelling substitute for landscape questing, but they don't award gear either really, just some barterable pieces here and there, not enough to gear a character with. Solo players tend to use a variety of mission gear, crafted gear and quest rewards. That is their lane and they like it that way. Those that do not - evidently, you are in that camp, find ways to group up with others and play differently. Think of it like going into a new pub on a Friday night. There are other people in there that went in alone. You can site quietly in a corner, meet nobody and leave alone, or you can mingle, approach others, have a drink or two and end up sitting at a table for 6 at the local chinese restaurant. Choices!

dunno what you're talking about.

from lv 1 to 140 there's no difficulty in landscape. i've done all the content without dying through the entire game just with gear i got from quests.

i've even tanked 3 or 5 mobs at once and i'm full dps spec'd.

no need for crafting or anything besides the stuff you get from quests. mobs do not represent any difficulty, unless you're trying to kill something +5 levels above you.

if you wanna experience regular WoW or GW2 landscape and questing, try to do Lotro by killing mobs 5 levels above you through landscape.

this lack of difficulty on everything and easy rewards, with huge blocks & obstacles for group instances naturally causes players at lv 140 not knowing how to use their abilities or play their class in a 3man, 6man or 12man group composition, because they don't face any difficulty that actually requires from them to learn how to play efficiently their class and role.

At some point, you're going to have to get used to the fact that your experience levelling is not the only experience in the game. There are a lot more players than just you. There are a lot more servers than the server you play on, experiences of levelling vary a lot. Mine is completely different to yours. There are many players that use world instances to level up. They don't run landscape at all.

yeah, there are players that do pies up to lv 140.

i'm not talking about these, but the general experience presented in the game.

i can say about GW2 or WoW that group-content is very encouraged since lv 1+ (gw2) or 10+ (WoW) in almost all versions of that game (WoW vanilla, tbc, wotlk, shadowlands, etc). and no player there is going to deny that, unless he never left goldshire.

i can say about Lotro that group-content is not encouraged at all up until higher tiers of endgame, the same way. and many players agreed with that, players whom seem to be the ones that are the most interested in that kind of content because they arrive from similar mmorpgs which are class & role based (like WoW, GW2, etc).

meanwhile, people that are not interested in that kind of content, negate that (like you do), trying to relativize stuff that's very self-evident only who knows why?

So you had a hard time grouping while levelling. That isn't the fault of anyone else. You are playing on a quiet server - by choice. You are not actively seeking companionship in kinships or friends - by choice. To want to rely on PUGs through old content, you should have at the very least chosen a busy server of maybe one of the legendary servers - that is what they are designed for.

trying to particularize a general experience is not useful if you can't disprove all the logic and reasoning that works behind that proof.

it's like saying: "hey, you are a man and you had to face social injustices, that means there's no such thing as a patriarchy".

it doesn't work that way, you've to try to refute the whole axiomatic foundation for the argument first. if you're trying to do some science or epistemology at least.

every time a player advertises for a group instance during leveling, player spends probably an hour until gives up and most of the time player cannot get more than 1 other person to join his group.

this is reasonable because there's no people from the level spectrum that he requires to jump into his group instance for that specific level.

mainly because population distributes across 140 levels (i feel like an idiot having to repeat this, but at this point i think you're trolling), and most condensed amount of the players are distributed through the last 10 or 15 levels of the game.

personally, by the time i tried to do The Barrows there were no players online within that level range and later on happened the same (in moria), so, i got carried by a guildie to finish a couple of quests. i've also realized it was a waste of time to do group instances because the gear i got from them didn't help at all with landscape quests or content because it's already easy and there's no need to improve it at all.

the same happened through all the leveling experience, no one does group instances. it's dead content. and there's no way to do them because there are no players within that spectrum, it's not rewarding enough, and there's no need to do it because landscape difficulty does not benefit from gear, because any form of gear you have it's more than enough to run through every single kind of solo content. no need for improving gear through dungeons, the gear you get from quests it's more than enough.


this becomes even worse when pieces of content are bought separatedly, which means that some players own a pieces of content, meanwhile other players don't own it (so they can't do the instances that belong to that update or expansion).

btw, i've chosen a busy server, Gledden has more people online during peak times than other servers like Arkenstone.

To do a complete 180 now, and ask for the game to become a solo only experience, just because you can't seem to get everyone to agree with your first choice of world scaling and forced grouping, is rather selfish to those that make the choice to find a way to group up.

your view of things it's really twisted.

on one hand you encourage players to not have any reason at all to run any group instance, and on the other hand you say it's a personal preference, and on the other hand you're okay with the game being role & class based to function as groups, although no one has any reason to group up until t3+ endgame.

think about it the other way around.

let's do some empathy exercise to put yourself in other people's shoes:


imagine if all solo content only gave copper coins as rewards, required a 1 hour to 3 hours cooldown (time spectrum based on RNG) to engage with and only group instances gave gear, IXP, etc and are also instant to engage with.

and then someone says: "hey, doing solo content it's a matter of preference.. there's some that people just like to read the stories from quests and it's about likes and dislikes".

would players still do solo content all day without complaining? i don't think so. people would get mad at forums or they'd be doing group instances to get rewards and gear.



if you don't see your own contradictions even after making those self-evident i can't help you.

[Langie]

naturally causes players at lv 140 not knowing how to use their abilities or play their class in a 3man, 6man or 12man group composition

Well you arrived at level 140 believing that burgs were a superior DPS class to champions, so I'd say you're living proof of that

[WeirdJedi]

imagine if all solo content only gave copper coins as rewards, required a 1 hour to 3 hours cooldown (time spectrum based on RNG) to engage with and only group instances gave gear, IXP, etc and are also instant to engage with.

and then someone says: "hey, doing solo content it's a matter of preference.. there's some that people just like to read the stories from quests and it's about likes and dislikes".

would players still do solo content all day without complaining? i don't think so. people would get mad at forums or they'd be doing group instances to get rewards and gear.

Originally, the only way to increase your overall damage and healing potential past level 100 was to collect crystals from certain activities: festivals, completing Epic Battles, or doing T2 instances. You essentially needed one crystal for every level. We lost a lot of players because they could not get enough crystals to keep playing through the story. They removed that necessity with the new legendary system.

If you told me that I would be rewarded with a cosmetic for every quest instead of gear - like in the case of the 52 quests in the Bingo Boffin questline - I would totally do it. I didn't do missions until I was level 140, did them and collected geodes for weeks just for the cosmetics, and did the weeklies for ember just so I can convert them into Figments of Splendour for decorations.