What ruined Lord Of The Rings Online?

[Boraxxe]

Don't get me wrong on the title. I love Lotro and I will be playing it until I'm gone or until it's an antique and I have to pay to download some solo-player artifact.

In the beginning... (does this sound like some kind of biblical text?)
There was the subscription model.

We paid a monthly fee for the ability to dance/fight/play in a real Tolkien middle-earth.
We paid our dues with dollars and anything we wanted to buy in-game we paid for with in-game currency. Copper/Silver/Gold and tokens that we found in various areas and could trade to get stuff.

Then came Free-To-Play.
And we didn't need to pay any dirty monthly fee. It was FREE.

Except it was not.

We were divided into classes like VIP/Premium/FTP (Free To Play).
And a new currency came into being: First Turbine Points (TP), then Lotro Points (LP).

With these new currencies we could buy new stuff.
But the new currency needed to be purchased with dollars above and beyond the "dirty" Monthly Fee.
Yes, you could earn some of the new currency while playing the game. This was kind of slow to accumulate while adventuring. But fast to accumulate with dollars.
Some of the new stuff on offer was really desirable. And you could get it in-game, if you were lucky. If not, well you would just have to do without it. Or you could spend some Turbine or Lotro Points.
You want 2000 TP or LP? No problem, just "click here" and a charge was made to your credit card account. Painless.

So why did I suggest with the title of this thread that Lotro has been ruined?

Didn't the game still work the way it did before FTP?

Yes and no.

The survival of the game (as we know it) seems to depend on players continually buying LP (with dollars).

So, everything that gets added to the game needs to provide a pay-back.
Why add stuff that no one wants to pay for?
The Managers (not Developers) need to ask; Is this new content or feature going to bring in enough money to cover the cost of development and also provide profit?

So, the answer to this thread's title is: money.

Do I have a solution to what I seem to have posed as a problem?
No.
I would like it if we went back to a subscription model, but they would undoubtedly need to raise the subscription price (quite a bit), and there would probably not be enough of us willing to do that to make up for the lost LP revenue. Unless the subscription price was raised to an amount that most of us would not pay.

So, in the end I am sorry to have taken up your time. The problem is money.
Money sucks.

[Murtanion]

Don't get me wrong on the title. I love Lotro and I will be playing it until I'm gone or until it's an antique and I have to pay to download some solo-player artifact.

In the beginning... (does this sound like some kind of biblical text?)
There was the subscription model.

We paid a monthly fee for the ability to dance/fight/play in a real Tolkien middle-earth.
We paid our dues with dollars and anything we wanted to buy in-game we paid for with in-game currency. Copper/Silver/Gold and tokens that we found in various areas and could trade to get stuff.

Then came Free-To-Play.
And we didn't need to pay any dirty monthly fee. It was FREE.

Except it was not.

We were divided into classes like VIP/Premium/FTP (Free To Play).
And a new currency came into being: First Turbine Points (TP), then Lotro Points (LP).

With these new currencies we could buy new stuff.
But the new currency needed to be purchased with dollars above and beyond the "dirty" Monthly Fee.
Yes, you could earn some of the new currency while playing the game. This was kind of slow to accumulate while adventuring. But fast to accumulate with dollars.
Some of the new stuff on offer was really desirable. And you could get it in-game, if you were lucky. If not, well you would just have to do without it. Or you could spend some Turbine or Lotro Points.
You want 2000 TP or LP? No problem, just "click here" and a charge was made to your credit card account. Painless.

So why did I suggest with the title of this thread that Lotro has been ruined?

Didn't the game still work the way it did before FTP?

Yes and no.

The survival of the game (as we know it) seems to depend on players continually buying LP (with dollars).

So, everything that gets added to the game needs to provide a pay-back.
Why add stuff that no one wants to pay for?
The Managers (not Developers) need to ask; Is this new content or feature going to bring in enough money to cover the cost of development and also provide profit?

So, the answer to this thread's title is: money.

Do I have a solution to what I seem to have posed as a problem?
No.
I would like it if we went back to a subscription model, but they would undoubtedly need to raise the subscription price (quite a bit), and there would probably not be enough of us willing to do that to make up for the lost LP revenue. Unless the subscription price was raised to an amount that most of us would not pay.

So, in the end I am sorry to have taken up your time. The problem is money.
Money sucks.

Frankly, as a long time VIP player, the monetization in this game is pathetic. When I play other games like CoD, LoL, or even some indie games I drop money into cosmetics and other things that I find useful. I have all the expansions, classes, and perks after playing this game since launch. There's no new or recurring releases from SSG that would incentivize me to spend money in the store.

Ironically its actually the opposite. After the few rounds of free quests/content codes I dropped VIP and only really sub when I want to participate in PvMP. The store itself, much like many of the in game systems, has so much useless bloat or downright scammy and underperforming items.

[Ayoheynns]

Don't get me wrong on the title. I love Lotro and I will be playing it until I'm gone or until it's an antique and I have to pay to download some solo-player artifact.

In the beginning... (does this sound like some kind of biblical text?)
There was the subscription model.

We paid a monthly fee for the ability to dance/fight/play in a real Tolkien middle-earth.
We paid our dues with dollars and anything we wanted to buy in-game we paid for with in-game currency. Copper/Silver/Gold and tokens that we found in various areas and could trade to get stuff.

Then came Free-To-Play.
And we didn't need to pay any dirty monthly fee. It was FREE.

Except it was not.

We were divided into classes like VIP/Premium/FTP (Free To Play).
And a new currency came into being: First Turbine Points (TP), then Lotro Points (LP).

With these new currencies we could buy new stuff.
But the new currency needed to be purchased with dollars above and beyond the "dirty" Monthly Fee.
Yes, you could earn some of the new currency while playing the game. This was kind of slow to accumulate while adventuring. But fast to accumulate with dollars.
Some of the new stuff on offer was really desirable. And you could get it in-game, if you were lucky. If not, well you would just have to do without it. Or you could spend some Turbine or Lotro Points.
You want 2000 TP or LP? No problem, just "click here" and a charge was made to your credit card account. Painless.

So why did I suggest with the title of this thread that Lotro has been ruined?

Didn't the game still work the way it did before FTP?

Yes and no.

The survival of the game (as we know it) seems to depend on players continually buying LP (with dollars).

So, everything that gets added to the game needs to provide a pay-back.
Why add stuff that no one wants to pay for?
The Managers (not Developers) need to ask; Is this new content or feature going to bring in enough money to cover the cost of development and also provide profit?

So, the answer to this thread's title is: money.

Do I have a solution to what I seem to have posed as a problem?
No.
I would like it if we went back to a subscription model, but they would undoubtedly need to raise the subscription price (quite a bit), and there would probably not be enough of us willing to do that to make up for the lost LP revenue. Unless the subscription price was raised to an amount that most of us would not pay.

So, in the end I am sorry to have taken up your time. The problem is money.
Money sucks.

They could at least open one "subscription only" server without a Store, but why don't they open one?

[LabadalofDorlomin]

They could at least open one "subscription only" server without a Store, but why don't they open one?

Well the legendary worlds are subscription only unless something changed that I missed?

But, with the legendary worlds SSG want their cake and to be able to eat it - regurgitate it and then eat it again and again. Pure Greed...

I would jump at the chance for a purely subscription server and I have a lifetime sub and I would even go far as to say they should open a server with a NEW subscription model and anybody who wants to use it would need to pay the new subscription and then as you stated, everything would be free and earned in game including expacs.

So,
Normal servers have F2P, Premium, VIP and Lifetime and
Legendary servers have VIP and Lifers
New Sub server only has those who sub to new model.

Job done

[why-becauseIcan]

They could at least open one "subscription only" server without a Store, but why don't they open one?

Because they would lose money, 1 whale eats 10 regular subscribers. It's that simple. For a sub MMO to work, they need a big population which Lotro doesn't have.

[Gandolf_TheOld]

So, the answer to this thread's title is: money.

Ummm, one small point you, and many others with posts similar to yours, fail to keep foremost in mind. SSG is a business whose product and service is LOTRO, and the business' purpose is to make money through their product and service - Basic intro to business principle taught in almost any freshman business course.

The equation from the above is business plus product plus service equals profit, ( B+(P+S) = $ ). This covers one reason for the switch to F2P. Another reason was the subscription model was failing, and since the business want to make a profit, it switched to the F2P model and the business again was making a profit. Other games saw this and decided to switch.

Here, read it for yourself - Free-to-Play.

Thus, the savior of LOTRO is the very thing you bemoan - money.

[Thalian39]

Nothing ruined it. It's your viewpoint and opinion that is ruined.

MMO's evolve with time. LOTRO is alive and well.

Thalian from Gladden

[Halphast]

Then came Free-To-Play.
And we didn't need to pay any dirty monthly fee. It was FREE.
Except it was not.

Free-to-play never means a game is 100% free. You weren't fooled. Nobody was fooled.

You also take for granted that SSG is releasing content that "no one wants to pay for." But if that were the case, why are those regions so densely populated?

Really the core of your argument is that you don't value what SSG chooses to monetize. Fair. Don't pay for paid content if you don't like it. But the game's not "ruined" just because your personal preferences aren't being catered to.

[Pewpewmidget]

... It's your viewpoint and opinion that is ruined.

I only agree with this part of the comment.
Our viewpoints and opinions get skewed over the years based on how the game and players have been treated.
To summarize, the game nor the players have been treated very well recently.

The support for the game is joke these days.
It's easier to try and figure something out yourself than to wait months for SSG.
Often times other players are more helpful than the GMs or DEVs.
I can go on but this is also not the only reason for LOTRO getting ruined.

Bad content, ill-advised moves, forgotten features, etc, can be reasons that a game would decline.

War-steeds, Epic Battles, Skirmishes, Fellowship Maneuvers, etc, are examples of forgotten features.
The new LI system, Motes/Figments/Embers, countless USELESS landscape tokens, stat bloats, ever-rising level cap, etc, are examples of ill-advised moves.
Gundabad instances and the raid, some MM instances, etc, are examples of bad content. (keep in mind, everyone's opinion on what is bad is different)

As mentioned above, the ever-rising level cap and stat bloats, are getting well out of hand and is making this game unplayable to some and look grindy and unattractive to outsiders.

The fact that the level cap is 140 is insane on it's own.
While some are fine with it, whether they love leveling or are fine with paying for level skips,
people are getting overwhelmed and demotivated to keep playing endgame or the entire game in general.

Then we move on to another factor, other players.
We pick fights with each other, shoot each other's ideas down, mock each other's opinions,
keep talking about politics and religion in world chat, kinship chat, discord, pretty much anywhere.
While it is understood that everyone is different and they have the right to do whatever they want or the right to their own opinion,
some people just cannot let other people be.

We gate-keep instances and raids, mock playstyles, point fingers, deflect blame, don't take accountability for our own actions, report others for the dumbest reasons,
shove discord down other peoples' throats and discriminate against those unwilling or cannot use discord because of their hearing and refuse to type out assignments before any fights. We are too impatient. We are too selfish. We are too greedy. We are too lazy. We are too unorganized. We are too accepting. We are too unaccepting. We are rude. We are impolite. We are too stubborn. We are too judgemental. We are too prideful. We are too insecure. We are too condescending. We are too hypocritical. We are too self-righteous.
... I think everyone gets the point. We are all guilty of something listed above.

There are far more reasons why LOTRO went downhill than just money and monetization.

[SavinDwarf]

Another perspective is ... LOTRO needs money, not to get rich, but to make sure our developers can feed their families and the game keeps operating. For years (all the way back to Ultima Online and Everquest) there have been people willing to spend a lot of money to level quickly, by accounts, by gold etc. Hopefully those people can get uber by spending money with LOTRO instead of third parties.

My perspective is that if we have a bunch of people willing to spend $100+ per month with LOTRO we should secretly smile and be happy because they are keeping LOTRO alive. LOTRO should get as much money from these people as they are willing to spend. For those of us willing to pay a monthly subscription and perform hard work we should also be able to get uber. The amount of work and skill required should be just enough to make those who prefer the easy way to continue spending.

My only negative is that I'm not sure LOTRO always gets the right balance - but its not easy and maybe trial and error is always going to be required.

But maybe with enough funds from the "pay for success group" LOTRO can finally get performance issues fixed.

[Fadil]

Nothing ruined Lotro, very simple answer.
When the game went F2P I was very much against it, because I thought it would lead to a P2W model or that I’d be forced to spend money on top of my subscription fee.
After all those years I can say that I was wrong. It seems the current model worked out very well, in that the F2P model attracts a lot of new players who would otherwise probably never try the game.
Some of those stick around, others will probably leave after their trial period.
And that's what P2P really is: a trial period where you can try the game for free.
Anyone who thinks the entire game can really be played for free (or should) is naive.

As someone who subscribes to the game I have never had to spend 1 extra euro on anything. And there is no P2W in that I can/ need to buy equipment, gold traceries or anything needed to enjoy the game/ play end game content, in the store.
I've always felt that if I would need to buy end game equipment or anything needed to play end game in the store, I'd stop playing.

As a business model I assume it works, because the game is still up and running, which probably or maybe wouldn’t be the case if they continued to be subscription only (?).
The ONLY thing I find annoying about f2P are the people who actually seem to think the game is free, and moan about monetization none stop.:P

Your whole post seems to be based upon a silly notion that money is dirty and companies are evil. Which in itself is a silly way to think about games/ game companies.
Ofc they need to make money and make a profit.
That's also in your/ my interest since we want the game to continue.

[Maximilan]

Frankly, as a long time VIP player, the monetization in this game is pathetic.

I think you hit the nail on the head with how the OP and many others feel, including myself. It is particularly galling for some to market gimmicks for money in a game that they love when many of them would gladly pay a subscription.

The difference with other posters on this thread is a difference in perspective IMO. You would have to be naïve to think money doesn't rule the game or the world for that matter. It is unfortunate that many industries have adopted a business model to make things free/cheaper at the expense of your time or patience. It's like saying I'll give you a free HDTV but you have to watch 5 minutes of commercials before you can change the channel. For some that's a bargain, for others it is ridiculous.

I can understand the paradigm shift, but that doesn't mean I like it.

[Fadil]

I think you hit the nail on the head with how the OP and many others feel, including myself. It is particularly galling for some to market gimmicks for money in a game that they love when many of them would gladly pay a subscription.

Then why don't you buy a subscription?
I pay a subscription, get 500 lp each month, on top of the 300-500 I make in game (that is without grinding lp, which i hate doing), which allows me to buy anything in game I ever wanted.
It seems silly to me that people who refuse to pay a subscription moan about monetization.
The game needs to make a profit/ income in order to run, so either buy a subscription or buy some lp every now and then.

[DoRonRon]

I only agree with this part of the comment.
Our viewpoints and opinions get skewed over the years based on how the game and players have been treated.
To summarize, the game nor the players have been treated very well recently.

The support for the game is joke these days.
It's easier to try and figure something out yourself than to wait months for SSG.
Often times other players are more helpful than the GMs or DEVs.
I can go on but this is also not the only reason for LOTRO getting ruined.

Bad content, ill-advised moves, forgotten features, etc, can be reasons that a game would decline.

War-steeds, Epic Battles, Skirmishes, Fellowship Maneuvers, etc, are examples of forgotten features.
The new LI system, Motes/Figments/Embers, countless USELESS landscape tokens, stat bloats, ever-rising level cap, etc, are examples of ill-advised moves.
Gundabad instances and the raid, some MM instances, etc, are examples of bad content. (keep in mind, everyone's opinion on what is bad is different)

As mentioned above, the ever-rising level cap and stat bloats, are getting well out of hand and is making this game unplayable to some and look grindy and unattractive to outsiders.

The fact that the level cap is 140 is insane on it's own.
While some are fine with it, whether they love leveling or are fine with paying for level skips,
people are getting overwhelmed and demotivated to keep playing endgame or the entire game in general.

Then we move on to another factor, other players.
We pick fights with each other, shoot each other's ideas down, mock each other's opinions,
keep talking about politics and religion in world chat, kinship chat, discord, pretty much anywhere.
While it is understood that everyone is different and they have the right to do whatever they want or the right to their own opinion,
some people just cannot let other people be.

We gate-keep instances and raids, mock playstyles, point fingers, deflect blame, don't take accountability for our own actions, report others for the dumbest reasons, shove discord down other peoples' throats and discriminate against those unwilling or cannot use discord because of their hearing and refuse to type out assignments before any fights. We are too impatient. We are too selfish. We are too greedy. We are too lazy. We are too unorganized. We are too accepting. We are too unaccepting. We are rude. We are impolite. We are too stubborn. We are too judgemental. We are too prideful. We are too insecure. We are too condescending. We are too hypocritical. We are too self-righteous.
... I think everyone gets the point. We are all guilty of something listed above.

There are far more reasons why LOTRO went downhill than just money and monetization.

A rare thing to read on the forums, inciteful commentary. I'd add in the fulcrum between that could have mitigated much but drives the decline instead.

[Boraxxe]

Free-to-play never means a game is 100% free. You weren't fooled. Nobody was fooled.

You also take for granted that SSG is releasing content that "no one wants to pay for." But if that were the case, why are those regions so densely populated?

Really the core of your argument is that you don't value what SSG chooses to monetize. Fair. Don't pay for paid content if you don't like it. But the game's not "ruined" just because your personal preferences aren't being catered to.

Perhaps "ruined" is the wrong word. It is certainly changed.

It seems to me that somewhere between when the game was sub-only and now, the motivation driving developer creativity changed.
The original game was created to give us Middle-earth. They achieved an amazing rendition of that world and created an engaging way for us to interact with it.
The entire text of LOTR was ours to experience in a very interesting "Chapter" sequence. From Frodo's flight out of the Shire and onward. And there was a lot of interesting "filler" that was sort of aside from the text, but included much that the writers of content imagined would be fun and interesting.
I believe the goal at the time was to sell the game, obviously, and to continue in the mold of MMORPG that was AC and EQ among many others so as to continue the income with attracting more players with upcoming expansions and word-of-mouth advertising.
My opinion; when the income started to dwindle a new "model" was tested. Very daring indeed. It worked...we are still playing.
But.
The motivation I noted above, creating an artistic rendition of the world of ME became side-tracked in favor of increased revenue.
I imagine that a lot of the revenue was wasted and therefore lost due to mistaken goals and adventures into new arenas....that failed to materialize.
We can only speculate how much Turbine/WB spent on those things.

And now...the enterprise has trapped itself into a never-ending need for income.
They need to find ways to get into our pockets above and beyond subscriptions.

Maybe what we need is a LOTRO II...with a new engine. That would require an Angel to appear with the capital to fund it.
I would welcome a new game based on a subscription model and restricted pocket-picking. Micro-transactions do not need to be based on creating "grind".
We all know what I'm talking about; creating a dearth of things that were created just in order to sell them. A few are doled out as drops, etc, but very few, while a virtually unlimited supply is available with a mouse-click.

I don't mind paying for this game. I do not like stuff created for the sole purpose of generating money. Stat-Tomes come to mind...a few steps away from what used to be called Indulgences
I will stop now before I wander too far down the dream-path.

[DavidmeetHal]

The survival of the game (as we know it) seems to depend on players continually buying LP (with dollars).

.

I have to be honest, I'm lifetime and still pay $20 a month for LP, and $60 on the LP sales. For my playing time, which is 30 to 40 hours a week, it's cheap entertainment.

[Boraxxe]

I have to be honest, I'm lifetime and still pay $20 a month for LP, and $60 on the LP sales. For my playing time, which is 30 to 40 hours a week, it's cheap entertainment.

I also am a Lifer and I spend at least that much.

My concerns really have nothing to do with "cost" or expense.
The problem I have is what they are doing with the income.

[Pavlin]

Store is fine. Prices in it too. Also any item you want from store you can aquire for 1-6 days playing without paying $. I see no problem
Im sad they make all BoA. So now i cant give my friends a gifts/ or to recieve one.
Its funy because SSG put BoA barrier to prevent gold selling / yet, solvents comming from store are free to sell SSG logic alwats amuses me.
Il just put one key word here (with capitals, if someone misses it) Gold selling is in his PRIME. Got it SSG ? Ah, but you already knew it, stil do nothing, because baning them, means you literaly ban 1/3 of your most populated server population. So you decided to limit them a little, so both sides benefit. Sadly you didnt care the 3rd side. The side of regular players. Anyway, we speaking about monetisation. As i said store prices are fine. Model in general is fine. Wont change. What need to change are the prices in seasonal vendors. You cant sell damn horse tail outfit for 75 mithril, or 2 was 50 ? Its a damn horse tail. Who will spend 100$ on war steed cosmetic ? And you dont even care about mounted combat animore Kepp same model, but pls have a second look at some prices. Remove store imtems you cant get for 15 marks from skirm vendor. Its a trap for new players and we all know it, but is LOW, Or you can just please the op and ppl who soo wanted old ViP model back, and give them a ViP server, with everything free from store. We were here before, pleasing such demans. Now we have dead legendary servers....
Op, you seems burn out m8. When that happen, and it happens to everyone who play MMOS, you take a rest, then come (or not) back. You dont go to forums and asl for meaningles changes, giving devs stupid ideas. Take a rest, go out fishing /its spring/ relax, then come back and have fun. Dont ruin it for all, with comlains, just because you get bored
(vip btw)

[TearMaker]

I kind of agree if what I believe the OP is trying to say...

When we were sub only the emphasis on the development was purely on the story, the landscape and the epic and none so instances.

whereas now as the OP states, everything that is created by the developers has to first and foremost have a return in some way via the store. Then if there is time we may get none store related items (rare) and then possibly some QoL improvements.

So, for all of you stating that the store and the F2P store model is great (and is probably the only reason that Lotro still exists), it doesn't mean it is better.

When development was balanced across the above items instead of the purchase of consumables and cosmetics, we had stable servers with a massively larger population than we have now.

I remember when we worried about getting group content and raids done to obtain weapons and armour and jewellery and not worry about getting enough turbine points to buy our way though. The mounts are a great addition to the game but did it really make any difference when the only steeds worth striving for were the ones that came with Kindred reputation?

Does this make any difference now? Not at all because we have the store and it has already ruined what the game used to be but we probably wouldn't be here without it and so we have to live with the devil in our lives..

[Fadil]

I kind of agree if what I believe the OP is trying to say...

When we were sub only the emphasis on the development was purely on the story, the landscape and the epic and none so instances.

whereas now as the OP states, everything that is created by the developers has to first and foremost have a return in some way via the store.

How were the new zones recently published, related to the store?
The new raid, anything, as a matter of fact?

I remember when we worried about getting group content and raids done to obtain weapons and armour and jewellery and not worry about getting enough turbine points to buy our way though.

Can you name me one thing that I can obtain through the store (and not in game) that will benefit my end game playstyle?
Armour, weapons, everything is still ONLY available in game through raids/ embers and so on.

How can you "buy your way through" with Turbine points?
Turbine points are nice for cosmetics, mounts, housing items and ofc for storage/ carry-alls.

[spaltung]

i think it mainly has to do with devs paying attention to the wrong things.

not because they're bad at what they do, but because they probably don't have the tools or knowledge to overcome certain challenges regarding their own game.

challenges such as: market competition or handle current players expectations with new players expectations.

an example of this is how monetization hasn't been renewed for the last 10 years, offering the same F2P experience from a decade ago. and paywalls for everything like currency cap, premium wallet. right now that stuff is changing, but it should had been from the beginning or for a long time.



another thing was the big fail that Helm's Deep represented, and all the loses they got from making bad choices.

then, devs decided to focus on what their current playerbase that didn't left the game wanted,

rather than asking themselves why a big portion of their playerbase left the game and focus on what that playerbase that left the game wants and feed the game with that (to bring them back to the game).

no they didn't do that... so, they ended up making irrational "safe" choices rather than taking rational risks, like improving monetization the way that they're doing now.


over the years, this kind of irrational but safe mentality generated that a major part of the playerbase ended up being composed by players that are playing an MMORPG for the first time and do not know what to expect from a game, so, they could even pay for stuff like "No lag" at the LP store for 50k LP.

stuff that players that already know how these kind of games function makes them bounce off the game right away. because they had been playing similar games and know what to expect from a game, and seeing those kind of paywalls or p2w stuff usually means a red flag, or "stay away from that game".


the effects from this are massive,

it makes a game that's totally unreliable for contemporary times. it rejects all forms of playerbases from market competition, because it has so different monetization and game design philosophy that only LotR fans can relate with the game (because they can ignore all of that) or players that haven't played a similar game from the competition before (because they don't know what to expect from an mmorpg).

this isn't bad necessarely, but makes the game highly dependent on its IP rather than being a better game than their competitors.

and that causes that the game can't grow from its current place in the ladder. so, it's kinda destined to always be composed by the same players and retaining those old players.

maybe in 50 years when all the devs are 80 years old, they will still produce content for their 80 year old players. because no one will be able to relate with the game at that moment in time but the people that had been playing it for 60 years.

[Arnenna]

I agree with the OP. When a game is subscription based with no drive to store, everyone pays to play, and everyone earns their gear in game. Everyone, bar none, is on the same page. There is none of this instant gearing through buying keys, nobody riding around on a special steed that cannot be earned through some game play. Everyone pays, everyone benefits, nobody has to go without due to lack of a bottomless wallet. Straight flat and reasonable fee to play, and that's it.

[Flaxie]

I agree with the OP. When a game is subscription based with no drive to store, everyone pays to play, and everyone earns their gear in game. Everyone, bar none, is on the same page. There is none of this instant gearing through buying keys, nobody riding around on a special steed that cannot be earned through some game play. Everyone pays, everyone benefits, nobody has to go without due to lack of a bottomless wallet. Straight flat and reasonable fee to play, and that's it.

You are right, everyone who is able to be there would be on even footing. I wouldn't be there. I was VIP for several years. Even VIP on two accounts for a while. Then I was forced to retire due to failing eyesight. Now I barely survive on a social security check, most of which goes for payments on old medical bills, and rent. I went f2p through necessity. I don't care if others with more money buy things in game. What they buy has NO EFFECT on ME. What they wear, ride, kill with, eat, does not effect me in any way. What their stats are make no difference to me. There is no reason for me to waste my time in game on worrying about them. I just play with what I have, and the only thing I worry about it that they might listen to those who want to go back to a sub-only game model I could no longer play at all.

[spaltung]

I agree with the OP. When a game is subscription based with no drive to store, everyone pays to play, and everyone earns their gear in game. Everyone, bar none, is on the same page. There is none of this instant gearing through buying keys, nobody riding around on a special steed that cannot be earned through some game play. Everyone pays, everyone benefits, nobody has to go without due to lack of a bottomless wallet. Straight flat and reasonable fee to play, and that's it.

i don't think the sub model or f2p with MXT should allow that players can buy their way to win the game through buying endgame gear and stats.

that's ####ed up stuff. that do not exist or represent the majority of current & popular mmorpgs that share LotR model (f2p with buy to play, subscription and buyable currency). maybe that kind of p2w stuff only exists in trash mobile mmorpgs now.


f2p games with p2w is a huge downer for many people.

with the exception of players that are actually engaged in buying their way through winning the game.


Lotro has a buy-to-play model with subscription and buyable currency like GW2 or ESO but also sells players endgame gear/currency and stats.

that stuff is not viable anymore because most games already figured out that P2W only damages their games in the long term (people leave or don't want anything to do with that in the first place).


that's why most f2p with sub/buy-to-play games are focused on MXT for cosmetics/mounts and side-needs that are not fundamental or do not affect endgame gameplay directly.

Lotro decided to go against that stuff and sell players endgame gear and stats like mobile trash mmorpgs do.

this was probably a call made by Severlin who seems to be clueless about how their competition is doing or does not care because he thinks the only kind of player that exist are "LotR fans" that do not care about other mmorpgs, so, they will buy anything in their way without a second thought (and he's right to some extent, and therefore why it worked for him).

[DoRonRon]

I agree with the OP. When a game is subscription based with no drive to store, everyone pays to play, and everyone earns their gear in game. Everyone, bar none, is on the same page. There is none of this instant gearing through buying keys, nobody riding around on a special steed that cannot be earned through some game play. Everyone pays, everyone benefits, nobody has to go without due to lack of a bottomless wallet. Straight flat and reasonable fee to play, and that's it.

Our old kin fell apart because we went from having a wealth of instances and skirmishes to do down to just a few because of those who weren't subbing and hadn't bought the older content.