Patch tomorrow

[Brinswith]

The communication strategy of Turbine/SSG have been for a decade "stay silent and say nothing".
And it is working.
Unless someone at SSG feels insulted by a sarcastic posting. Then the thread get closed and warnings will be spoken out to some poster.
This thread will also fade.
Ignoring something or someone can be used as a "weapon" and SSG has a master degree in its usage.

Isn't it all rather sad then that the only way to elicit a response from SSG is to post snarky, sarcastic or inflammatory comments. I still have a sliver of hope that with no response from them at all. They have taken this feedback to someone at a higher level and we might get a small patch this week putting them back in with a message akin to "We have heard the feedback from the players". Wishful thinking perhaps..

[Arnenna]

Isn't it all rather sad then that the only way to elicit a response from SSG is to post snarky, sarcastic or inflammatory comments. I still have a sliver of hope that with no response from them at all. They have taken this feedback to someone at a higher level and we might get a small patch this week putting them back in with a message akin to "We have heard the feedback from the players". Wishful thinking perhaps..

I'd hazard a guess that if a favourable response was coming, we'd have seen it by now.

[DoRonRon]

Usually the defence of the indefensible has a subset of players to speak to. Bit thin on the ground right now. Those who might have listened are hit the worst, mostly partially filled rep bars. I'm getting 50LP on various characters over these last couple of days as I complete the last rep; one that's hardly reward filled.

Every recipe showing only a default might output so it's just another gamble and a disappointment of a miss-match of stats ahead. Are there multiple jewel recipes so can't know which provides the stats you are looking for? Even the wiki is a drought of info because they're just not worth bothering with. An Instrument or two? Or one given the cost to having an alt spec in Lotro with gearing and the LI super grind, and regrind and regrind at each cap to come. Fools trying to play us for fools.

Do you get a "balloon"?

[Occum]

The removal of rep tomes from skirmish camps under the cover of night is a disappointing move. I haven't played at all since last fall when the new LI mechanic kicked in, and I've only logged in every few days to get virtue whatnots from hobbit presents with an expectation that I'll eventually return. Maybe I will, maybe I won't. I'm sure not spending any money until (perhaps) my $100/year VIP sub comes up for renewal in September.

I thought their giveaway of all content up to near endgame was great. But I do not think that's going to draw in and keep new players who spend money. One can now play the entire epic story line for free. That's all that most new folks will want. The newer content is basically fan fiction now with loot boxes. If they're gearing for new hardcore end-game raider types there are much better alternatives. There are probably many whales in LOTRO in that space and hopefully they can spend enough to keep the old game available.

[Brinswith]

The removal of rep tomes from skirmish camps under the cover of night is a disappointing move. I haven't played at all since last fall when the new LI mechanic kicked in, and I've only logged in every few days to get virtue whatnots from hobbit presents with an expectation that I'll eventually return. Maybe I will, maybe I won't. I'm sure not spending any money until (perhaps) my $100/year VIP sub comes up for renewal in September.

I thought their giveaway of all content up to near endgame was great. But I do not think that's going to draw in and keep new players who spend money. One can now play the entire epic story line for free. That's all that most new folks will want. The newer content is basically fan fiction now with loot boxes. If they're gearing for new hardcore end-game raider types there are much better alternatives. There are probably many whales in LOTRO in that space and hopefully they can spend enough to keep the old game available.

I think even the people who spend would give a second or even a third thought before spending TP on Rep. The prices of those in comparison to the meagre amount of marks it cost prior to the patch should be a red flag for anyone considering paying for them.

[Kaeneth]

Add value to the store instead of removing value in game. We all know why this happened, and why there's been no comment on this hot topic from any blue names. There's so many of us that want to support this game, but when we see things like this it's demotivating to continue doing so because it signifies a direction which we don't want to support.

The single most untapped resource you guys have, that I can't for the life of me figure out why you haven't went all in on, would be cosmetics. How long have people been asking for new items in Lalia's shop? Or just in general, there's countless of cosmetic requests scattered all over the forums that plenty of people would pay for. Weapons, armor, new steeds, new dye colors, new hairstyles and avatar customizations...if they're nice looking and reasonably priced then there's no way they wouldn't sell. Literally almost every other game capitalizes on cosmetics except Lotro. I'm not a game dev, nor have I ever ran a studio, but I play enough games to know that cosmetics will always sell, and that most players never have an issue with aesthetic only options being sold in cash stores.

But for the love of all that's good, stop making these kinds of awful decisions. I'm sitting on thousands of Lotro points and I still won't spend any on store rep boosters just out of principle at this point, same with keys for loot boxes. What would I spend them on and buy more for? Good cosmetics.

[LadySelene]

I could brainstorm the damn game and come up with lots of suggestions for the $tore, involving much development or not.

1. Account-wide-anything. Mounts, emotes, warsteed colours - whatever. Would cost more than 1-char purchase, of course. Next to no development is required. Some people see the stuff in store as "it's char-only" and don't buy at all.
2. New character customization options - hair styles etc. Probably per race as the developers should check if it fits any character model available. I bet people will run to spend LP for it.
3. Carry-alls, maybe limited time. If you need a 10K LP worth of stuff to buy, it's pretty unlikely ppl will sit with their eyes bleeding farming points. Okay, some will do, but others won't.
4. Let us unlock more interior/exterior hooks in our house with LP, standard and premium alike.

...Back to the topic...
Do we need exclusive logins to read/reply to the thread, to be acknowledged as the playerbase's concern?
I still would like a reply, and hope to get those concerns answered by not leaving this thread to fade into the Pit of Doom.

[Ketriana]

1. Account-wide-anything. Mounts, emotes, warsteed colours - whatever. Would cost more than 1-char purchase, of course. Next to no development is required. Some people see the stuff in store as "it's char-only" and don't buy at all.
2. New character customization options - hair styles etc. Probably per race as the developers should check if it fits any character model available. I bet people will run to spend LP for it.
3. Carry-alls, maybe limited time. If you need a 10K LP worth of stuff to buy, it's pretty unlikely ppl will sit with their eyes bleeding farming points. Okay, some will do, but others won't.
4. Let us unlock more interior/exterior hooks in our house with LP, standard and premium alike.

Love these ideas. All of them would get me to crack open my wallet, while the recent lootbox and rep tome nonsense have caused me to cancel VIP. LOTRO players are eager to support the game; stop giving us reasons not to with shameful money grabs.

The lack of communication is also very bothersome. I, too, would appreciate a blue response to this thread.

[wispsong]

Add value to the store instead of removing value in game. We all know why this happened, and why there's been no comment on this hot topic from any blue names. There's so many of us that want to support this game, but when we see things like this it's demotivating to continue doing so because it signifies a direction which we don't want to support.

The single most untapped resource you guys have, that I can't for the life of me figure out why you haven't went all in on, would be cosmetics. How long have people been asking for new items in Lalia's shop? Or just in general, there's countless of cosmetic requests scattered all over the forums that plenty of people would pay for. Weapons, armor, new steeds, new dye colors, new hairstyles and avatar customizations...if they're nice looking and reasonably priced then there's no way they wouldn't sell. Literally almost every other game capitalizes on cosmetics except Lotro. I'm not a game dev, nor have I ever ran a studio, but I play enough games to know that cosmetics will always sell, and that most players never have an issue with aesthetic only options being sold in cash stores.

But for the love of all that's good, stop making these kinds of awful decisions. I'm sitting on thousands of Lotro points and I still won't spend any on store rep boosters just out of principle at this point, same with keys for loot boxes. What would I spend them on and buy more for? Good cosmetics.

I could brainstorm the damn game and come up with lots of suggestions for the $tore, involving much development or not.

1. Account-wide-anything. Mounts, emotes, warsteed colours - whatever. Would cost more than 1-char purchase, of course. Next to no development is required. Some people see the stuff in store as "it's char-only" and don't buy at all.
2. New character customization options - hair styles etc. Probably per race as the developers should check if it fits any character model available. I bet people will run to spend LP for it.
3. Carry-alls, maybe limited time. If you need a 10K LP worth of stuff to buy, it's pretty unlikely ppl will sit with their eyes bleeding farming points. Okay, some will do, but others won't.
4. Let us unlock more interior/exterior hooks in our house with LP, standard and premium alike.

...Back to the topic...
Do we need exclusive logins to read/reply to the thread, to be acknowledged as the playerbase's concern?
I still would like a reply, and hope to get those concerns answered by not leaving this thread to fade into the Pit of Doom.

I agree. This is what I'm waiting on. Also miss dwarf crafting stations and when will the big Rohan pack be pulled apart so I can get what I want without all the excess I won't use. I buy premium housing and items to fill it. Would also buy what is mentioned above. But besides content there isn't much in the store to spend LP on. I refuse to play games of chance with keys and extra hobbit rolls. So why not put them in the store after some time. So many things you can do to get my money but apparently you don't want that.

[Strider5548]

I could brainstorm the damn game and come up with lots of suggestions for the $tore, involving much development or not.

1. Account-wide-anything. Mounts, emotes, warsteed colours - whatever. Would cost more than 1-char purchase, of course. Next to no development is required. Some people see the stuff in store as "it's char-only" and don't buy at all.
2. New character customization options - hair styles etc. Probably per race as the developers should check if it fits any character model available. I bet people will run to spend LP for it.
3. Carry-alls, maybe limited time. If you need a 10K LP worth of stuff to buy, it's pretty unlikely ppl will sit with their eyes bleeding farming points. Okay, some will do, but others won't.
4. Let us unlock more interior/exterior hooks in our house with LP, standard and premium alike.

...Back to the topic...
Do we need exclusive logins to read/reply to the thread, to be acknowledged as the playerbase's concern?
I still would like a reply, and hope to get those concerns answered by not leaving this thread to fade into the Pit of Doom.

These are great ideas, all things I'd pay money for. Hope SSG is reading.

Sadly it's much easier to incorrectly assume that ripping out a popular barter item will lead to more sales. In the decision makers' head this was a 0 effort exercise that they think will draw in more dollars. That's more appealing to SSG than putting in resources to develop something like new hairstyles that many of us would love and pay for.

[Hephburz-2]

The communication strategy of Turbine/SSG have been for a decade "stay silent and say nothing".
And it is working.
Unless someone at SSG feels insulted by a sarcastic posting. Then the thread get closed and warnings will be spoken out to some poster.
This thread will also fade.
Ignoring something or someone can be used as a "weapon" and SSG has a master degree in its usage.

Could not agree more.

SSG's "say nothing" policy is an insult to their playerbase. The fact that this thread is now 10 (almost 11) pages long, and SSG hasn't taken 30 seconds to reply really says a lot about how they view us.

[blacknazgul13]

Yes, to be honest, I'm normally free-to-play in principle, but I got VIP once and the first thing I did with the LP I got was to get mithril for an old anniversary steed that was really cool. I would do that again for really cool cosmetics. I'm not a collector, but I do like looking cool, and there have been times I've gazed at the items in Lalia's market wishing I could buy them. I agree with everyone else, cosmetics are the way to go. It doesn't break some people's principle of not using money in a game because they want it more challenging, because cosmetics don't affect gameplay, which means that it'll be purchased by even those kinds of free-to-play people. It would also mean that I'd feel encouraged to subscribe because SSG is not looking like some money-grabbing company that just wants my money and doesn't care about me as a player.

[WorrBinpike]

Good timed since Cordovan isn't doing any Cord of the rings lately. And this means there wont still be any Cord some more weeks/months, not that it would change anything.

Canceld my sub and that from my wife.

This change is horrible. Normally i'm good informed about Patch notes although i'm not playing the game. This time i missed it (and also my wife although she is playing), sux.

Good for me that i have a couple of thousands unbound accelerators in my bank, but i like leveling Twinks (with quests) in old Areas, so i surely would have exchanged some more if i had knew it.

Shame on you SSG! And applause to the silence. Wasn't it communicated, that the communication should be better ?

[middlediscworld]

One option would have been to add the tomes to a VIP only vendor, obvious one would be

https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Wenda_Cranesbill

Could add a couple of VIP only pets and horses to it at the same time.

[LadySelene]

"Get back your VIPs you've just cancelled - or stay without an important QoL item, which until recently was free to all"?
Bad Idea.

[Brinswith]

Anything would have been preferable to the complete removal of them without so much as a by-your-leave.

[Neinda]

Still no blue name willing to talk to us and help us understand the reason for this change? It would be nice to hear from someone in charge. I guess the lack of response over the past week shows what SSG thinks of us as customers.

[Wyllshire]

Seriously, Devs? This just boggles my mind. Did you honestly think no one would notice you taking away the ONE remaining quality use of skirmish rewards? And then, on top of that, to completely ignore the firestorm you created? Almost laughable if it weren't so aggravating.

[Strider5548]

Still no blue name willing to talk to us and help us understand the reason for this change? It would be nice to hear from someone in charge. I guess the lack of response over the past week shows what SSG thinks of us as customers.

I'm sure it's a mix of them being busy with the U.S. holiday and also wanting to be careful how to address this.

Do we really need a statement though? It's obvious the goal is to drive players to the store. I would bet they looked at skirm vendors, saw that people were redeeming tons of rep tomes, and concluded "this is a valuable item, let's lock it down and monetize them directly from the store".

The reality though is that we all have an overabundance of marks/medallions because the way we earn them is out of control. There are hundreds of items you can barter from skirm vendors, and for the vast majority of end game players only two of those items are worth bartering for. This creates the illusion that rep tomes are highly desirable sought after items, but the truth is they're one of only 2 things most players would even use from these vendors, which is why so many are bartered for.

[Neinda]

I'm sure it's a mix of them being busy with the U.S. holiday and also wanting to be careful how to address this.

Do we really need a statement though? It's obvious the goal is to drive players to the store. I would bet they looked at skirm vendors, saw that people were redeeming tons of rep tomes, and concluded "this is a valuable item, let's lock it down and monetize them directly from the store".

My concern is not really the rep tomes. It is fairly obvious that someone not familiar with the game thought this was a goldmine for the store. I am extremely concerned that not a single blue name feels the need to address anything here on the forums lately. Think lag, the new legendary weapon system grind which is all but impossible for lower levels, currency caps, loot boxes, rep tomes, customer support tickets, etc.

Ever since the decision to make embers pay to win and the resulting customer storm, it feels like SSG has decided they will get what they can and if we all go away, oh well.

A company that is not interested in how their customers perceive them does not tend to last long. Customers have choices and customer service plays a big part in whether customers stay with a company. Responding to customers is a big part of customer service.

Oh and by the way, this silence of blue names in the forums is what all the new and returning players see as their first impression of customer support for the game from SSG. We all really could use those new players to stay a bit and protect middle earth with us. Please try to keep them here in game.


To the blue names out there..........it really helps if you talk to your customers. We may not agree with you. We may move on. We may say OK and stay. The current method of ignoring the customers is really not helpful for anyone.

[KongoOtto]

I am extremely concerned that not a single blue name feels the need to address anything here on the forums lately.

- Small Reputation Accelerator Tomes have been removed from the Skirmish camp curiosities vendors.They can still be obtained from weekly Missions in the "Missions: Bonus Character Boosts" package.

I quess that says it all. You get your answer right there. You get 2 Tomes per Char a week. Be happy or buy them in store.

Maybe i'm too fatalstic about that, but what changes have been undone in the past. The only thing i remember was the quickslot animation.
And the two reasons why they gave in was: it was easy to make them optional and more important all players have been affected by that.

Here you have a huge amount of player that get there tomes already in time or just didn't know or care.

[LuckyShot]

I'm sure it's a mix of them being busy with the U.S. holiday and also wanting to be careful how to address this.

No excuse. The holiday happened SIX DAYS after the patch notes were posted & threads started. They knew this would make people angry. A proper company would have had a statement ready. So either they are a total clown shoes outfit or they think the players are stupid. Honestly couldn't tell you which is worse.

[Hephburz-2]

The reality though is that we all have an overabundance of marks/medallions because the way we earn them is out of control. There are hundreds of items you can barter from skirm vendors, and for the vast majority of end game players only two of those items are worth bartering for. This creates the illusion that rep tomes are highly desirable sought after items, but the truth is they're one of only 2 things most players would even use from these vendors, which is why so many are bartered for.

And the reality is, that's their own fault.

Marks, meds and seals were meant to combine and do away with all the other types of currency we obtained, and seals were supposed to be reset at level cap, they were supposed to only drop from the current tier raid (orthanc, erebor at the time), and I never understood why they reverbed on this system. Probably because they did away with traditional raid clusters altogether and went down the route of epic battles, and then by the time they went back to traditional raid clusters (105) everyone had amassed ridiculous amounts of marks, meds and seals - and were probably too worried about the uproar of resetting these currencies at that time, regardless of that, they've made no disdain for the fact they are quite happy upsetting the playserbase with stupid changes (like the thread topic), and should have just reset players seals (and/or meds) upon release of the raid and continued to use marks, meds and seals as raid & instance currency.

Instead we have the absolute garbage ember loot system, 1-weekly lock for the highest difficulty instance content, and more currency systems than I dare to count. Someone at SSG needs to streamline this, and put everything into a very simple progressional system.

Non-Cap landscape currency.
Cap landscape currency.

Non-cap instance currency.
Cap instance currency.

Non-cap raid currency.
Raid currency.

There, how hard was that.

[Neinda]

Until the blue names feel the need to interact with the player base very little will change. It is hard to tell if the blue name are just tired of us, afraid of us and our opinions or they really don't value us as customers and consider us disposable/replaceable.

The blue names need to be more active and visible. They don't have to agree with us, they just have to act like they want to retain us as customers.

@senario always responds from what I can tell. Maybe others should follow his example?

[Thalian39]

Okay, I get why everyone is upset ...sort of. At least about the lack of communication from SSG.

But quitting VIP just because of these small tomes being removed? I'm sorry but that's just silly, in my opinion. (and that's all it is - my opinion - feel free to disagree)

If all you're doing is rushing your rep to farm LP...well...are you/were you having fun doing that? Probably not.

Until this whole thing blew up, I did spend all of my skirm marks and medallions on the tomes, since, as several pointed out, it was really the only thing worth trading for.

However, I will probably forget to use them, or choose not to use them at all. I am more immersed in the game, and don't really care about reputation grinding. If it happens, it happens. And I enjoy the journey to get to that level.

I guess it's just the different playstyle and I'm one of the oddballs that doesn't care all that much....except for the lack of customer service.

And, Yes, they should have addressed the situation somewhat TODAY, but they are quiet about it. Or perhaps they gave the staff a very long weekend.

Anyway, I guess my point is...don't get an ulcer over this guys/gals.

Oh...and yeah, they really need to revamp the whole skirmish system. I hope that is on the drawing board. Soldiers only go to level 100 I believe...and something worthwhile to trade in would be nice. Even IXP runes....something...anything!

Thalian from Gladden