Fortifications vs. Armour Penetration

[Technician46]

Hi Devs, my question is how exactly does guardian fortification work against armour penetrations?

Let's assume the following (these are NOT actual numbers):

Armour Value 100,000 = 60% armour mitigation
tier 1 = no armour penetration. At armour value 100,000 = 60% mitigation no extra damage is incurred.
tier 2 = 10% armour penetration. Character panel still shows armour value at 100,000 but we are taking 10% more damage. It's as if our mitigations are at 50%.
tier 3 - 5 = 20% armour penetration. Character panel still shows armour value at 100,000 but we take 20% more damage. It's as if our mitigations are at 40%.

Overcap:
tier 1 = no amount of armour value over 100, 000 (60%) needed.
tier 2 = you'll need an armour value of 110,000 and over for t2 armour penetration not to affect you. At t2 110,000 = 60%
tier 3 = you'll need an armour value of 120,000 and over for t3 -t5 armour penetration not to affect you. At t3-t5 120,000 = 60%

The formula above is simple enough to understand but throw in guardian FORIFICATIONS vs ARMOUR PENETRATION and things get a little muddy for me. Lets say the guardian's mitigations are at 60% (heavy armour limit) and then build's up his fortifications up to 5, 5 represents + 10% mitigations, so now his total mitigations are at 70%. So here are my questions:

How does fortifications work against armour penetration?

1. Does fortification just add an additional 10% mitigation?, for example: at 100,000 armour value we don't need to overcap for a t2 raid armour penetration debuff because the 10% that comes from fortification compensates for it and we don't suffer any additional damage from armour penetration at t2? OR

2. Do we still need to overcap for t2 armour penetration debuff despite the fact that our character panel is showing we have 70% mititgations (the 70% includes Fortification) but our actual armour value is still at 100,000? And do we take extra damage because our armour value is 100,000 in spite of the fact that our mitigations are showing 70? OR

3. Does our fortifictions give us 70% mitigations regardless of any armour penetration at any tier?

Sorry, I hope this is not terribly confusing. I had trouble wording my thoughts into questions here.

Some clarification would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

[Joedangod]

How does fortifications work against armour penetration?

They don't interact with it at all. The penetration value is just subtracted from your mits rating. Fortification doesn't give rating, it gives raw %. So fortifications stacks are not affected by armour penetration in any way shape or form.

[Technician46]

They don't interact with it at all. The penetration value is just subtracted from your mits rating. Fortification doesn't give rating, it gives raw %. So fortifications stacks are not affected by armour penetration in any way shape or form.

Thanks for answering but I still don't understand. It would be more helpful to me if you can give an examples based on the questions I asked above. Sorry, not trying to be difficult I truly just don't understand how the fortifications work against mitigating the armour penetration and if fortifications are not affected by armour penetration then how do they work or add to our mitigation against armour penetration if at all. Thanks again.

[Gorikon]

First thing - mitigations aren't identical to armour rating. We have physical mitigation rating, which contrbutes to PM percentage, and it's tactical counterpart. Armour rating contributes to PM rating (1:1) and TM rating (5:1).

Let's make up some numbers.

100k mitigation rating --> 60% mitigation (cap)
90k mitigation rating --> 50% mitigation
80k mitigation rating --> 40% mitigation

Let's say mobs ignore 10k rating in T2 and 20K rating in T3.

You have 100k rating in both Physical and Tactical -->
T1: 60% Mitigation without fortifications, 70% with
T2: 50% Mitigation without fortifications, 60% with
T3: 40% Mitigation without fortifications, 50% with

You have 110k rating in both Physical and Tactical -->
T1: 60% Mitigation without fortifications, 70% with
T2: 60% Mitigation without fortifications, 70% with
T3: 50% Mitigation without fortifications, 60% with

You have 120k rating in both Physical and Tactical -->
T1: 60% Mitigation without fortifications, 70% with
T2: 60% Mitigation without fortifications, 70% with
T3: 60% Mitigation without fortifications, 70% with

Percentage numbers are effective numbers. Tooltips in character window will always show T1 values.

[Technician46]

Thanks for the reply but to be honest my question still wasn't answered unless I'm missing something. So let me write down what I do know:

1. armour rating is different then mitigations but contribute toward our mitigations.
2. the higher the armour rating the more mitigations you have until you reach cap (heavy, medium or light armour values caps)
2. armour penetration works against your armour ratings only and does NOT affect or work against the guardian's "Fortifications" directly (in other words we receive the full + 10% mitigations from Fortifications).
3. Fortifications contribute to your mitigations but not to your armour rating.

So knowing these things, my question still reminds that same, since fortifications are not affected by armour penetration directly, then how do they work or add toward my mitigation against armour penetration if at all and at what rate do we calculate damage at? 50%, 70% or what?

If I'm taking damage AS IF my armour rating was 90k = 50% mitigation (due to armour penetration) but my mitigations say they are at 70% on the character panel due to fortifications at which rating I'm I taking damage ? 50% due to armour penetration OR at 70% due to my fortifications OR what ?

[RicoFTW]

This is getting a bit silly now. Fortifications will ALWAYS give you addtional 10% (if at max rank of course) to your mitigations. Your tooltip is showing t1/landscape cap. So you have to calculate the penetration yourself to see the actual % of mitigations but nevertheless fortifications will add 10% on top of any value you have got at a given moment. If your tooltip showing 50% and you have fortification at max rank then your mits are 50% minus whatever the % value of penetration is which will differ depending on tier and type of given instance.

If you doing t3+ raiding and you overcap your mits by the same amount mits penetration is in an instance, you will have 60% (soft cap for heavy class) mitigations. With maxed out fortification buff it will be 70%.

[Joedangod]

R% = RatingsToPercentageFormula( Rating - Penetration Value).

Total Positive Mits % = R% + (All raw % mit bonuses such as fortifications/SoS/Cappy Herald/Etc)

Actual Mits % = Total Positive Mits - (All raw % mit debuffs such as the -10% mit stacks in Hiddenhoard)






Penetration values only impact the mits gained from rating, they have no impact on raw % mit bonuses.

[Rodired]

So knowing these things, my question still reminds that same, since fortifications are not affected by armour penetration directly, then how do they work or add toward my mitigation against armour penetration if at all and at what rate do we calculate damage at? 50%, 70% or what?

So here is the thing first of all we dont have armour penetration currently but mitigation pen. This makes the whole thing a little less confusing because its the same for physical and tactical now and not only 20% for tactical. Now to your question the information shown by the character panel ignore penetration values but include stuff that goes above the soft cap like fortifications. If you have the T1 caps and 5 stacks of fortification you will see a 70% here and that will be accurate for T1 as long as you dont have any debuffs that reduce it. % debuffs will actually be shown. Now for the penetration question lets just take your artificial one and say T2 pen would lower your soft capped mits from 60%-50%. Now you add the fortifications again bringing you up to 60% which would be the rate you take daamage at with no other debuffs being present.
But since the mitigation penetration is known people just cap for that and you can basically ignore it completly.