Where do we go from here?

[Sophisticate]

Okay so, this is going to be a long feedback. I don’t know where to post this so I saw this thread and the title made sense.

So, I am a returning player after 1 or 2 years, I don’t even remember. When my friend said “Hey there is a 140 Valar up in the store, let’s do that and do some PVMP and maybe PVE.” I said “Why not?”
I immediately regretted it and remembered why I stopped playing long ago.

Are you developing new content? Are you trying to balance classes or other things? Are you trying to bring new items to the store? Are you trying to add new customizations to the characters? Any answer to these questions is redundant until all the servers get rid of the lag.

I’ve been playing this game for 11 years; my friend has been playing since the very beginning and what both of us experienced in our long period of playing this game is LAG. A game shouldn’t be hanged in the minds of its players with “lag”. Of course, I had many amazing memories but...

Right now, the Ettenmoors in Evernight server is literally unplayable. Most of the action is usually based on chance because of the lag, it is not even like PVP it is a gamble! You press a button and pray that the skill worked. Sometimes there are these huge lag spikes where ALL of the players stuck for at least 3-4 mins and sometimes raid vs. raids or the spots with the crowded areas are like those stop-motion videos. I thought this was only an issue with Ettenmoors but no. When I logged in to my alt I was doing quests in Evendim and in every 5-10 mins I receive these long lag spikes with “Reduced Awareness” showing up.

I am not going to name-drop here but even the low-budget, low-tier MMORPGS or the private servers of these MMORPGS are lagless whereas a game with a 16 years of history struggles with huge lag issues every day. So, my humble suggestion here is that the devs should drop everything that they do about the game and just focus on solving this issue. I mean, we are living in 2023 with terabytes of databases up online and gigabytes of fiber infrastructure world-wide.

I, as a long-time player of this game, just expect a smooth gameplay. No new areas, no new quests, no new instances but immediate solution to this problem. Only then any of the updates and developments that you bring to this game will make sense.

Of course, I don’t want to just grouch about lag and just leave. I also want to share some of my ideas about PVMP in particular, BUT please; solve the lag first and only then these can make sense. Please note that since it has only been a week or two of playing this game after a long break, some of these maybe incorrect or may sound unreasonable and also I have limited feedback on class balances since I was only able to play few classes in both sides.

• First of all, I want to start with one of the most striking things that I’ve seen in the PVMP: Defiler. Never have I seen a class this broken in the history of this game. Even the Rohan-era Champion cannot compete with this. I am not going to write this in detail, I am sure everyone is aware of this fact. Around 300-500k heal per tick? Only one or two HoT that a Defiler puts to any creep of any rank with any audacity outheals any Freep class in a 1v1 situation. This is absurd and this state shouldn’t even lasted more than 72 hours.
• In contrast with the Defiler, the Shadow Warg is extremely fragile. Well, that’s okay for a high-dps class to be fragile but its DPS is in a miserable state. I was solo killing high rank shadow wargs with my rank 5 RK with missing gears and this is the first time I am playing RK in PVMP. This shouldn’t be possible.
• The lightning rune-stone of RKs are well… broken. An AoE slow as large as Spider’s web combined with two stuns and damage output aaand it is ground targeted when fully traited. None of the creep classes has a skill that is as advantageous as this one.
• Maybe for at least for 10 years, the issue where players get stuck in combat after a lag spike still persists… I mean come on…
• The map change and the implementation of the March skill to the Creep side is amazing. This has been an issue for a very long time because freeps had much more mobility than creeps. This change hugely balanced the mobility of both sides. Great change!
• The first thing I realised when I first played PVMP after a long break was the incredibly high health pool of the mobs and their damage output. I don’t know much about this change but as far as I read the forums, it makes sense with the upcoming Siege! updates. However, imho; this change also kills the solo/small group action in the game. The meta of the game pushes people to form larger groups, however, it also punishes those who form raids by preventing them getting loots from the mobs. Also, it has become nearly impossible for those newbies of both sides to complete quests and get some infamy/renown+comms.
• Removing DoF was a bad idea. It pushes people to the shuffle game-style. When a side gets crushed on the map, they usually moved the action to DoF in hopes to get a huge buff swing. Right-now, only thing that the losing side does is to just sit… I heard that the DoF will be coming back to the map with some changes, I hope it will be quick.
• I have no idea why those NPCs and items of old end-game eras are still in GV. Every time I return to this game after a break I find myself running like a headless chicken between NPCs to find the most current gear NPC. Even the barters from 50 lvl end-game is still there! Is it because of the cosmetics? I mean.. I guess not because the cosmetics of PVP gear of this game has always been miserable.
• Fellowship manoeuvres to the mobs in Moors have become obsolete. Three red+one yellow or full red or full yellow doesn’t even tickle the elite or higher tier mobs.
• Session plays have become obsolete. These should either be removed or renewed.
• Keeper of Gifts, the anniversary barterer in GV gives a Platinum Gift Box for 5 Steel Tokens. I bartered one. Opened it and voila! It gave me 25 Anfalas Celebrant Salves, giving around 635 power when used. My power pool is 93,910.
• Training dummies in GV are not working properly. Their mitigations are higher than it should be. I am hitting around 350k with Epic Conclusion on Light Training Dummy. The last time I hit a Shadow Warg with epic was around 1m. Any of these dummies are not reflective of the real DPS that is done can be done to creeps.
• Everytime I played this game reavers were a problem for the devs to balance. Right now, it is worse. They have high amount of dps, high amount of self-heal and high amount of mitigations. At least one of these should fall short. I mean I am choosing WLs as a target for my RK rather than Reavers, this should be the summary of this.

That is all the things that I can write from top of my head. But as I mentioned earlier. There is one issue to be solved to rule them all: LAG.

[Kate00]

• First of all, I want to start with one of the most striking things that I’ve seen in the PVMP: Defiler. Never have I seen a class this broken in the history of this game. Even the Rohan-era Champion cannot compete with this. I am not going to write this in detail, I am sure everyone is aware of this fact. Around 300-500k heal per tick? Only one or two HoT that a Defiler puts to any creep of any rank with any audacity outheals any Freep class in a 1v1 situation. This is absurd and this state shouldn’t even lasted more than 72 hours.

a healing class should out heal anything 1v1. are you serious? have you not seen the healing freepside? what healing rk, mini, or bear dies in a 1v1? just stop.

[Sophisticate]

a healing class should out heal anything 1v1. are you serious? have you not seen the healing freepside? what healing rk, mini, or bear dies in a 1v1? just stop.

Did you carefully read that sentence? I am not talking about continous healing:

Let's say as a Rune-Keeper I am going full DPS on a Rank 5 Shadow Warg and a Defiler comes and ONLY puts 1 or 2 HoT over that guy and NOTHING MORE, that's it, you won't be able to kill that guy with only 2 HoTs on him. We are talking about around 300-500k ticks here. No Freep class has this amount of heal.

And now, let a Reaver go crazy on a Rune-Keeper and let another Rune Keeper put two let's say three Mending Verses on the RK that is being ravaged. Do you think he/she will survive? Let me say the answer: nope!

Well, I was expecting this kind of a comment on this so here is something more solid for you, no need for any comment, just watch this: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1790704306

[Kate00]

You aren’t going to kill a creep being healed by a defiler as a solo. And you shouldn’t be able to. Just like you can’t with an rk, bear, mini, as a solo creep. It’s not possible and it shouldn’t be. To say that this is happening is misinformation. Or bad game play. Just stop.

[ithinkiamserious]

Just like you can’t with an rk, bear, mini, as a solo creep. It’s not possible and it shouldn’t be.

Wrong. Please stop with the misinformation.


Defiler has been the easiest and most op creep class to play for years. So please just stop.

[doodiethethird]

Did you carefully read that sentence? I am not talking about continous healing:

........you won't be able to kill that guy with only 2 HoTs on him. We are talking about around 300-500k ticks here. No Freep class has this amount of heal.

just watch this: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1790704306

any freep healer outheals a defi, espacially in groups, defi has only 3 single target heals
Fungal Spores, Fertile Slime and Fell Restoration.
and one weak grp heal, Efflorescence
and a bubble that can be interupted and drains the defis hp, Blessing of Darkness.
no skill that removes stunns or disarm, no sprint, no grp buffs, less range than any freep healer, no skill reset.

so your comparing the heal output of a specialised singel target healer(defi) in a 1v1 situation and want to nerf it ????

you didnt mention the tickrate for the 400k hp heal, smart.(since you do 1mil dmg with 1skil)

cant watch the vid you posted, im not a subscriber.

maybe watch this and see how freeps outdmg 4 defis ?
in once case only 1 burg kills a wl whos heald by 4 defis.......
https://youtu.be/OJje3NXZkUc

i guess we actually need a buff not a nerf for defis....

[Kate00]

Wrong. Please stop with the misinformation.


Defiler has been the easiest and most op creep class to play for years. So please just stop.

you are too funny. If you can’t out heal a solo creep this game isn’t for you. Defiler isn’t easy when 1 burg renders them useless. Learn to play.

[ithinkiamserious]

you are too funny. If you can’t out heal a solo creep this game isn’t for you. Defiler isn’t easy when 1 burg renders them useless. Learn to play.

obviously you are new to the game and don't know defiler very well. on one server i have a r6 defiler and even on that greenie toon three burgs can't kill me. you should learn to play defiler before you talk about classes you havent even pvpd on. lol

[Kate00]

obviously you are new to the game and don't know defiler very well. on one server i have a r6 defiler and even on that greenie toon three burgs can't kill me. you should learn to play defiler before you talk about classes you havent even pvpd on. lol

3 burgs that don’t know how to play maybe. I doubt you are familiar with addle. It’s a burg skill. Look it up. They are also a cc class. If they can’t keep you locked down they are awful. So before you come at me with imaginary skill. Maybe actually play against real players.

if you need help learning the game. Feel free to dm me. ~rank 6~ lol. You can get that in one day questing.

[ithinkiamserious]

I doubt you are familiar with addle. It’s a burg skill. Look it up. They are also a cc class. If they can’t keep you locked down they are awful.

Obviously you are a new player and haven't used a brand or stun pot. You also don't know that defiler has powerful heals that burgs can't interrupt. I think only a new player who doesn't know the defiler class would be scared of burgs. LOL

You can get that in one day questing.

I don't quest. Maybe you should spend less time questing and more time learning your class by pvping. LOL

[Kate00]

Obviously you are a new player and haven't used a brand or stun pot. You also don't know that defiler has powerful heals that burgs can't interrupt. I think only a new player who doesn't know the defiler class would be scared of burgs. LOL



I don't quest. Maybe you should spend less time questing and more time learning your class by pvping. LOL

Oh my. I am so sorry I didn’t realize the cd on brand and stun pot had been reduced to 0. I also didn’t know that defilers can heal while the are stunned and their skills aren’t grey barred. ~rolls eyes~

you can try to insult me all you want. You aren’t actually playing the game at rank 6. No solo healing defiler is scared of dying to a single burg and to suggest that is just silly and you are the only one suggesting that here. They do however make life miserable if they actually use their skills. You would know this if you had any actual game play time.

why don’t you actually try playing against a cc class as a healer and get back to us with serious conversation instead of continually trying to derail the thread. I’m not sure what your problem is but I’m done responding to you on the forums until you want to be serious.

[ithinkiamserious]

Oh my. I am so sorry I didn’t realize the cd on brand and stun pot had been reduced to 0. I also didn’t know that defilers can heal while the are stunned and their skills aren’t grey barred.

You think the cd on freep brand and stun pot has been reduced to 0? You think freeps can cc while they are stunned or have skills grey barred? ~rolls eyes~

You aren’t actually playing the game at rank 6.

You don't read very well. The point about my r6 defiler is that even as a greenie the class is so strong that I still have no problem with multiple burgs, even burgs that know how to stun and use addle. That isn't the only defiler I have, nor the only creep I have. Try again.

No solo healing defiler is scared of dying to a single burg and to suggest that is just silly and you are the only one suggesting that here. They do however make life miserable if they actually use their skills.

You said that one burg renders a defiler useless. That's a big LOL if one burg can prevent you from keeping yourself and others alive. It's much easier for defilers to make life miserable for a burg than the other way around. You would know this if you spent more time pvping and less time questing, but you're new to the game and I understand you're spending all your time trying to get maps. =)

[subadar]

pretty sure if you sparred Kate's defiler she would destroy you.

[ithinkiamserious]

pretty sure if you sparred Kate's defiler she would destroy you.

Why would a herb-tender defiler think it's an accomplishment to not lose to any freep class? Any two freep classes? Or are you saying Kate runs around in curse-shouter? LOL

[subadar]

i said spar, defiler on defiler and i didnt say not lose i said destroy

pretty sure Kate would destroy you.

[ithinkiamserious]

i said spar, defiler on defiler and i didnt say not lose i said destroy

pretty sure Kate would destroy you.

Sorry I killed you in a pvp zone. /shrug

[doodiethethird]

Obviously you are a new player and haven't used a brand or stun pot. You also don't know that defiler has powerful heals that burgs can't interrupt. I think only a new player who doesn't know the defiler class would be scared of burgs. LOL

do your pot have no cd ?
does your insignia have no cd ?

the "powerfull heals" have induction, what burg cant stop a 10 sec induction ?

Why would a herb-tender defiler think it's an accomplishment to not lose to any freep class? Any two freep classes? Or are you saying Kate runs around in curse-shouter? LOL

a mini and a burg , a mini and a chap, a mini and a hunter
2 burgs , 1 burg and a hunter, 1 burg and one champ

this are just some examples of freep combos that kill any defi , not instant but the defi will run into cd´s, yes it takes time and the freeps have to know what they are doing, but the storys you tell are some druged dreams, one defi outhealing 3 burgs, sounds really sketchy


only op thing here is your barin, defi winning vs 2 freeps, ok tell me more , maybe show a vid where you win vs 2 brurgs since

It's much easier for defilers to make life miserable for a burg than the other way around. You would know this if you spent more time pvping and less time questing, but you're new to the game and I understand you're spending all your time trying to get maps. =)

one defi to rule them all , you got a traumata iThinkAserius one

your hilarious and a lier

[ithinkiamserious]

do your pot have no cd ?
does your insignia have no cd ?

the "powerfull heals" have induction, what burg cant stop a 10 sec induction ?

this are just some examples of freep combos that kill any defi , not instant but the defi will run into cd´s, yes it takes time and the freeps have to know what they are doing, but the storys you tell are some druged dreams, one defi outhealing 3 burgs, sounds really sketchy

I guess you're a new player. If you think defiler healing is hard then experiment healing on a mini or rk and get back to me. LMAO

[doodiethethird]

I guess you're a new player. If you think defiler healing is hard then experiment healing on a mini or rk and get back to me. LMAO

you think healing on a mini or rk is "hard" ?!?!

you need serius help if you think any class in lorto is "hard" to play

the only hard thing here is the drugs you take

post your vid killing 2 burgs with your OP DEFI till then try less drugs

[ithinkiamserious]

you think healing on a mini or rk is "hard" ?!?!

you need serius help if you think any class in lorto is "hard" to play

the only hard thing here is the drugs you take

post your vid killing 2 burgs with your OP DEFI till then try less drugs

Healing on mini and rk is much more difficult and less powerful than healing on a defiler. Defiler is the easiest of any class in lotro pvp.

Please post your vid of two burgs killing you since defilers are so weak and need buffed...

[J-Moneyforever]

do your pot have no cd ?
does your insignia have no cd ?

the "powerfull heals" have induction, what burg cant stop a 10 sec induction ?



a mini and a burg , a mini and a chap, a mini and a hunter
2 burgs , 1 burg and a hunter, 1 burg and one champ

this are just some examples of freep combos that kill any defi , not instant but the defi will run into cd´s, yes it takes time and the freeps have to know what they are doing, but the storys you tell are some druged dreams, one defi outhealing 3 burgs, sounds really sketchy


only op thing here is your barin, defi winning vs 2 freeps, ok tell me more , maybe show a vid where you win vs 2 brurgs since


one defi to rule them all , you got a traumata iThinkAserius one

your hilarious and a lier

Skill Issue.

[doodiethethird]

Healing on mini and rk is much more difficult and less powerful than healing on a defiler. Defiler is the easiest of any class in lotro pvp.

Please post your vid of two burgs killing you since defilers are so weak and need buffed...

you need to up your game kid if you find healing on a rk more challenging than healing on a defi

and i posted allready that vid ?!

maybe watch this and see how freeps outdmg 4 defis ?
in once case only 1 burg kills a wl whos heald by 4 defis.......
https://youtu.be/OJje3NXZkUc

less durgs kid more awareness

[ithinkiamserious]

you need to up your game kid if you find healing on a rk more challenging than healing on a defi

and i posted allready that vid ?!


less durgs kid more awareness

I now understand that defiler is a very difficult class to play. My own long experience of playing all the classes in lotro pvp couldn't have taught me as much as your insights. Thanks for your important feedback!