Opening the Communication Lines

[SSG_Orion]

Not long from now, I'll be delivering my first letter to the players. Well... not my first, but certainly the first one that I have done in years. Before I get that out the door, I wanted to start a quick thread with a question that has been nagging me for the past few days.

Communication. It seems that there is a perception that there has not been a great deal of communication coming from the team here and I am trying to understand the sentiment more completely.

I know that Cordovan does a good job of interacting with the community and that it is very much appreicated when that communication comes out. I also know that there are times when the information that is shared is not as in depth as say, I could answer or Scenario, Vastin, or others might be able to answer.

Yet, I see a lot of statements here on the forums that our communication is lacking and I want to address that by providing an example and then asking for your feedback on how you think we could better interact or present upcoming changes to you. There are a few caveats that I need to express before I get into this.

1) No developer is required to post on the forums.

Some of us do, some of us don't. Our reasons for interaction are our own. I began my career in games as an OCR and thusly, I am much more comfortable wading into the thick of discussion and putting myself out there in public. This is not something that every developer wants to do and so it should not be expected.

2) Sometimes we are specifically asked to not discuss something...

It does happen that there are coordinated efforts happening higher up above us that need to be ironed out before we can discuss them in public. If we are silent on a subject, it is likely that something like this is happening in the background.

3) Sometimes we just don't have the time to interact.

This might be the biggest issue that we face. We have a lot of work to continue to do and as such, we are not always able to post here on the forums. I don't mind taking a few minutes out of my evening after my family is asleep to interact here, not every designer or developer has that flexibility. We do try to maintain a work/life balance like most of you.

Okay, caveats out of the way. Let's get to an example. I just posted here. These are the first ideas that I have around the Guardian class changes that I am going to start working on soon. My intent, is to start the dialogue with the Guardians in the game and elicit feedback early to see whether the ideas that are percolating in my brain.

Now the question,

What communication do you feel, as payers, is lacking from us? Specifically.

[Laurelinarien]

I think the team overall has been improving comms a lot. There's no doubt in my mind that the players requests (demands?) for more interaction have been heard and positively answered.

Regarding the 3 points you've listed: I think #1 and #3 are generally understood; #2 has one small issue: when something is not addressed we don't necessarily assume it is for the reason you express. It totally could be that a lot of us, older players, are jaded and we are somewhat burnt out to give the benefit of a doubt. I say "we" coz it's something I find myself struggling with a lot (not just concerning SSG, I play lots of games). So, not dodging the fair share of the blame.

I think the articles on the website have gotten better at explaining and showcasing information. I don't think the Market is performing very well (it's slow, doesn't autofill info and throws errors like the "stored payment tab" one that literally made me desist last night from buying BtS).

I digress.

Regarding class changes / feedback thread. I think people feel unheard coz they don't know which changes are set in stone and to what extent. Personally, I've only cared for the Minstrel one so far since it's my raiding main, and I do think people have been unfair to OnnMM.. but I think this is due to what I said before. Folks don't know what's changing yes or yes. Maybe being clearer on that could help? Or maybe it's just part of this belief that we can make you reverse decisions you're set on.

As a final issue, not that it bothers me but since some of the playerbase brought it up as a comms problem, all those Discords in which some devs prefer to exchange ideas in, wouldn't be such a poke in the eye if SSG ran their own official Discord server. Which I already know is not something you guys wanna do... just mentioning it as a minor thing.

Anyway, if it's any consolation I've enjoyed the feedback exchanges with both you & OnnMM. Your time is very very appreciated.

[auximenes]

Here's an example of something that should have been communicated. We found out that you (SSG) had implemented a function on the servers that would be going through and doing clean-up of old data and that this would impact server performance for up to 2 weeks for the larger servers. We only found out about this because of a comment during a Dev stream event. This is something that should have been communicated prior. It didn't have to be a detailed technical post, just a heads-up.

Thanks.

[DavidmeetHal]

My issue is sometimes you guys just suddenly drop off the face of the Earth on the drop of a dime.

If you guys are busy, just make a locked thread saying you guys will be busy for a while.

[Tirian-Hammerfist]

I really appreciate that you're asking this question.

There are two main things that I think are lacking in terms of communication:

1) We used to hear about long term plans in terms of the yearly producer's letter. This went down to a quarterly letter. Both have their advantages and both have their disadvantages. Regular communication is good, but the lack of an overall sense of vision (like Raninia's final letter) is not. Yearly 'big ideas' letter with quarterly updates and sneak peeks, perhaps? We love the game, and really just want more teasers about the awesome things that are coming up.

2) Bullroarer seems to have lost its purpose as a beta server, becoming simply a preview server. I know a lot changes between build 1 and live, but very little of this feels like it changes as a result of player feedback (and is more ironing out bugs). This can be frustrating for players who put the time and effort into testing. For me, this usually relates to comments on stories or landscape, but for others it might relate to class changes (probably the more contentious side of things!). When a change feels universally unpopular (like the reputation token changes, a change which actively made the game worse for players, without doing anything to address the underlying problem of excessive rep grinds), and the dev/Cord response is some variant on 'tough, we're doing it anyway', this doesn't feel great on the communication front. I know that there will still be times when players and devs don't agree, but more engagement on these issues tends to resort in a more positive response from players.

[Neinda]

2) Sometimes we are specifically asked to not discuss something...

It does happen that there are coordinated efforts happening higher up above us that need to be ironed out before we can discuss them in public. If we are silent on a subject, it is likely that something like this is happening in the background.

3.

And this is probably my biggest issue with SSG as a company and lack of communication. Use the minstrel changes for example. There was no notice that changes were being considered. There was no advance discussion of the changes that were coming. There was no what would the minis of the game like to see for the class.
The changes were dropped in the beta and the small responses we received to our comments were to me a marketing/sales pitch. One of the responses that made me give up was when I was told the keystrokes required to be a mini didn't increase. I can count so thanks but no thanks On a positive note, a response that is not a real response is better than we usually get most days. I am still trying to understand why SSG broke up the SLOTRO and other landscape groups while they let the farmers roam the starter areas freely. Nothing makes sense and the lack of a reason or response in the forums leaves that issue out there and open.

My guess is the number 2 item on your list is the problem for most of our angst and frustration. SSG as a company has a plan. The changes lately involve removing a feature from the game (15 year old mini changed completely, no more raid groups on landscape, removal of rep scrolls from the skirmish camp, no aggressive pets on landscape, etc. ) I am sure others could add to the list. When people ask why the changes occurred, we are met with what I refer to as the "silence of the blue names" over and over again. I suspect SSG does not want you to tell us why you did these things. For me, this equates to a lack of respect for the customer base and that equates to SSG as a company feels we are all replaceable with "better" customers.

SSG is perfectly with their rights as a company to continue giving the customer base the silent treatment over the changes that are happening. SSG is perfectly within their rights to do whatever they wish to any and all aspects of the game. We as customers are perfectly within our rights to speak out and voice our opinions both good and bad.

In the real world I happen to work as a liaison of sorts between management, our union, our employees and our customers. My job is to keep everyone communicating and all things peaceful. The one thing I have found that is the root cause of most issues is secrets and lack of communication. When there are open and honest communications there is trust and when there is trust the complaints are much lower. No, not everyone will be happy and some will complain just for the sake of complaining. On the other hand, when everything is a secret (need to know) people fill in the blanks with what they think is the reason for an action and the discontent spreads rapidly. That type of communication (or lack of communication) rarely ends with a group of satisfied individuals.

Your posts are a good example of open communications. Sometimes I agree with you. Sometimes I think the changes are silly and the words fool of a Took come to mind . But, at all times, I respect the fact that you respond with what feels to me like a real and honest answer. I cannot say that about anyone other than MadeofLions these days. I suspect that both of you push the envelope a bit and get in trouble with SSG management on occasion for being honest. I can relate. I once brought cupcakes and cookies to a meeting between management, the union and a couple of employees. I thought it would set the atmosphere for peaceful and happy discussions. Management pulled me aside and asked which side I was on.

For years, I joked that Turbine/SSG was way too responsive to the customer base. There were times that every complaint was answered and received a response in the game. Things have been changing for a while but up until last year, the changes were slowly implemented and SSG was still talking to the player base. Around the time of the legendary item change, SSG seemed to go into "silent mode". The silent mode to me really kicked into high gear when the proposed changes to the embers were discussed here on the forums. Since then, in my opinion, SSG has gone into the mode of change it, don't tell them about it and ignore the complaints aka the silence of the blue names.

SSG needs to ask, why someone like me who never complained for 14 years, maintained two accounts (where I really only play one and I only have one level cap character between the three accounts) and had a third account ready to go last November just to support the game has stopped supporting the game completely at this point. A year ago I purchased the ultimate expansion pack for two accounts. I also purchased several old expansion packs for the 3rd account and was ready to set it up for VIP when the change in atmosphere hit the game. There was nothing in those packs that I really needed or wanted but it was a way to support this game. As of now, I have not even purchased the basic expansion for any account. The reasons for this is the silence from SSG and me feeling unappreciated as a customer. I feel that SSG is of the opinion they can throw whatever they want out there because LOTRO is one of a kind and the player base will nod their heads and accept any and everything.

I like this game. It is my preferred game to play but I do not feel SSG wants me as a customer. SSG as a company has not done anything to indicate they care if I remain a customer. While, I appreciate you starting this thread, it should have been started by someone else in the management chain. The fact that you started the thread says to me that SSG as a company is not concerned about the complaints surrounding communications. It tells me that you are a nice person who is making an effort to get those who have the ability to enact change to listen.

Thank you for not being afraid of the player base. Thank you for treating us as real people who have real opinions and concerns. I truly hope you don't get into trouble for asking these questions.

NOTE: My comments about the silence of the blue names is not directed at individuals. Sometimes a blue name attempts to make an excuse for what is happening and that too has a downside because we will use quotes like "set in stone" or "the item is too readily available and will lose its value/long term health of the item" for years to come . The silence of SSG as a company and not any individual blue names is the real issue here in my opinion. SSG as a company can continue to stay in silent mode but we as customers will be left to fill in the blanks and I don't see that as helpful toward "the long term health" of the game.

One other issue for SSG management to consider is the lack of engaging/doable end game content currently in the game. Many people I know have moved on to other games due to the limited end game opportunities currently available for group content. The longer those people stay away, the less likely they are to return. Food for thought for your management as they try to balance and decide what this game will be in the long term. Happy customers are always good for business.

Added: Based on the comments here from people on this forum, I recommend the first thing you do is publish a list of all the forums and media you utilize to disseminate information and obtain feedback concerning the LOTRO game. I am more confused than ever about how information is communicated and shared concerning the game based on the comments here in this post. Once people know the appropriate forum to utilize in various situations, maybe the communication issues will be better for more of us. Some people here are very happy but they are getting their information from discord. Others like me are unhappy but I only use this forum because this is the official forum. Maybe publishing a list of the forums you regularly use with links might solve some of the confusion which for me has not led to a positive opinion of SSG as a company. Actually knowing where information will be shared would be an outstanding step toward improving all customer relations.

[Regero]

I appreciate the communication we get. Engaging with your player base, especially on an old MMORPG, is a brutal and often thankless endeavor. To that end, I really love seeing that some people over at SSG are willing to talk with the playerbase. Many devs in other games opt not to involve the community in any way in an attempt to avoid drama, rage, and bad ideas from overly-vocal segments of a community. However, engagement with the community can also open a well of experience and informed opinion from people who have spent, in some cases, over a decade with the game and can offer useful suggestions on balance, gameplay, etc. I think that latter bit is where the frustration may be coming from. People like to feel like, if they are asked for experience or feedback, that their response matters.

I appreciate the communication, and I respect that there are devs willing to wade into the Great Salt Ocean that are MMO forums, but the frustration stems from people feeling that their feedback goes largely unheard. I think this is probably exacerbated on the forums where players sometimes forget that they pay to play the game, not be a lead designer, or where people sometimes get carried away in the tides of butthurt. Take the mini rework for example, most players I've talked to in Discord or World Chat are neutral or positive towards the changes, a lot of the butthurt seems to congregate in the forums. I think a lot of players also forget that SSG is a team of, what, 40? Running TWO MMORPG's? That's insane. Changes will come slowly and you may need to be patient.

I don't mean to throw either the players or devs under the bus, but communication is a two way street. If players really want good, meaningful engagement from passionate devs, you need to not go into rage-mode and write scathing essays. You can disagree and dislike aspects of the game without calling SSG a bunch of morons. On the other side, if developers are going to engage with that playerbase, the playerbase needs to feel like it's opinions are being heard and matter. It's like when your wife asks you to take out the trash and you say "yes" every time she asks for weeks without ever really doing it. Sure, you're talking, but the communication itself is ultimately lacking.

That's just my 2 cents. I appreciate that people are still passionate and playing LOTRO, and am happy to be playing again myself (I thought the game died back in 2016).

[DoRonRon]

Sadly it took me only a minute to realise the Forum Guidelines prevent me from answering. You can't get the feedback if most of the concerned players have been banned by successive community managers who assume the task to quell rather than help. When you have colleagues lead up the garden path by a streamer with a notional journalist credential and have them gifted a prime slot and allowed to assume titles; Co-host, Senior Official Streamer and even Professor without redress, it demonstrates very poor judgement. A judgement applied from making the rules through deciding on appeals, as they are referred back.

Game play is a window into a player's mettle, take a look.

When I hear of a company seeking to rebuild confidence after some misdemeanour then I take it at face value, they are only intending to change the perception not any underlying problem. I really can't fathom why other's would think otherwise: Perhaps it's an unwritten contract, to "believe" has your lies "believed" in turn?

I do think you are honestly trying to make a difference, but you perhaps trust your colleagues far more than is warranted. We've had 7 years since they implied SSG was an indie studio and not a Daybreak straight jacketed cash cow. People flee the forums and call it toxic because their arguments are trashed, your colleagues maybe have similar concerns. Competent Dev Diaries died with your leaving Turbine.

"BE HONEST" would be my message; you only waste your life away keeping track.

[Fadil]

Now the question,

What communication do you feel, as payers, is lacking from us? Specifically.

The communication seems pretty decent from what I read/ witness here.
There will always be disgruntled (ex) players complaining about everything or suggesting the communication isnt good because they are unhappy about x or y.
This messageboard isnt any different than other mmorpgs' messageboards in that it over-represents negativity/ unhappy players.

So, if I may make one suggestion it is to also communicate on other forums like the large Reddit Lotro community and Discord, because the player base there seems less dominated by
ex players who are unhappy about everything.

[WeirdJedi]

I feel like the word "communication" is a buzzword people use for all kinds of things. So maybe I should boil down the instances I've seen it used.

(1) Planning: Some people love to plan ahead and it constantly troubles them when not knowing about things. The LI Revamp is one prime example. People were holding onto items for months, constantly asking what items to toss and what items will convert. Here we are almost a year later and a lot of us still don't know if it is safe to toss things. We kept expecting some sort of list that would let us know: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHbLggQ79Ls&t=570s. A part of this is because we can still buy relics that are available in the game at places like Beorninghus and Estolad Lan. Some have asked for a pure wipe of shards from our wallets to make it clear that the currency won't be used for any future use. Other matters seem to be unclear as we've seen very briefly a moment where the level 100 symbols could convert into Ancient Script but rescinded in the following patch. If they are meant to be still craftable, then why aren't the recipes still available? One moment it seemed like they were going to remove the option to gain Gundabad Legendary Enhancement Runes because there wasn't currently a use for them.

(2) Changes: Sometimes unexpected things occur. Giving advanced warning is always going to be a constant balancing act when it comes to when something happens. People were only given a month in advance when it came to getting off Ithil before it closed: https://forums.lotro.com/forums/show...-Housing-Issue. I know many people don't read the patch notes, but they are a valuable way of obtaining knowledge of what is coming. They are a way to find out if a change is intended or not. I generally refer back to Update 25.4 patch notes - https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Upd..._March_3,_2020 - because not only did they not include the new option to obtain up to two guilds per vocation (which was only added to the notes after people mentioned it) but there was absolutely nothing about the new Trigger Essences. These are huge changes to the community and only those who participated in Bullroarer knew about them. Even then, the essences were changed multiple times before release.

(3) Feedback: By the time something appears on Bullroarer, it has already been through some pretty early development on Palantír. We, as players, don't feel like our opinions matter at that point. The amount of work has already been put into the changes and there is very little we can do to change it. One example I like to point out is when the early development of Rohan Housing leaked onto Bullroarer in February 2020. Coincidentally, it was the same Bullroarer as above: https://forums.lotro.com/forums/show...-SERVER-CLOSED. I remember vividly how they tried to tell people that it was a mistake, not to see it, and that the testing was meant for the raid. Immediately, people were already pointing out the problem with its location: https://forums.lotro.com/forums/show...cs-seen-so-far. Unfortunately, the location was implemented onto the servers without the ability to enter about a month or two later. We couldn't enter and buy houses until the update about 4 months later. Whatever talk of implementing an open-roam, non-instance version of the place has been long left behind.

(4) Information: There are the type of players who only want to see what is contained in the game. Unfortunately, we've seen plenty of times people who ask in World Chat, reach the forums, or ask in social media when it comes to various matters. Again, the LI Revamp a good case of when something isn't very well explained. These players do not want to seek out articles posted on the main website or check out the wiki (even though I feel the article covers the basics). For those wanting more explicit details can check things out from other people. Awhile back, I saw in the patch notes that there would be a notice for when the servers were down. Yet, I still see confused people posting their error messages whenever they can't log in (despite there being a notice in the forums about weekly restarts). Contrary to what you might believe, there are people who do read quests and tooltips. Adding these kind of things can go a long way.

[Brinswith]

Thankyou for posting this thread Orion. It will hopefully allow concerns to be seen through a different set of eyes as from what we are used to. On of the more recent concerns around a lack of clear communication was the removal of rep tomes from the Skirmish Camps. Most people had very little notice of the change.

I won't delve into the arguments for or against their removal only to say it produced one of the largest threads in recent times on the forums and not a single blue name responded in the thread and the only explanation was a vague response from Cordovan in an entirely different thread.

It is the same with IXP (Heritage Runes) No explanation given as to their removal which leads the player to assume it was purely to hurt the player-base.

Patch tomorrow (lotro.com) - The thread regarding their removal.

for the long-term health of that particular item.

- Cordovan's post.

If changes like this need to be made for whatever reasons at least justify them rather than adopt the usual complete silence or vague answer. I still to this day have no idea what "for the long term health of that particular item" actually means.

[Neinda]

T
So, if I may make one suggestion it is to also communicate on other forums like the large Reddit Lotro community and Discord, because the player base there seems less dominated by
ex players who are unhappy about everything.

I will ask one favor here. Please have one forum or openly post where we are supposed to provide feedback. Having multiple "secret" forums where you obtain feedback just adds to the lack of trust issues that I as a customer currently have concerning SSG. I have seen comments in the mini change forum about some discord you use to get feedback. I have no clue or idea what that is all about. I did not know there was an official LOTRO discord for feedback on changes. I thought these forums were the place to voice comments.

That might be a good first start with communications. Tell us where to post our comments and where to provide feedback. If these forums are not used then tell us what forums you are using for feedback.

[Fadil]

I will ask one favor here. Please have one forum or openly post where we are supposed to provide feedback. Having multiple "secret" forums where you obtain feedback just adds to the lack of trust issues that I as a customer currently have concerning SSG. I have seen comments in the mini change forum about some discord you use to get feedback. I have no clue or idea what that is all about. I did not know there was an official LOTRO discord for feedback on changes. I thought these forums were the place to voice comments.

That might be a good first start with communications. Tell us where to post our comments and where to provide feedback. If these forums are not used then tell us what forums you are using for feedback.

There is nothing secret about Reddit or Discord, and the Lotro communities there are a lot bigger
than the handful of people who use these messageboards.
It is only my suggestion devs also spend some time there (IF they have time for that), to communicate with other
players as well.

Maybe focus on your own posts/ suggestions instead of trying (again) to misrepresent what I posted.

[SSG_Orion]

I will ask one favor here. Please have one forum or openly post where we are supposed to provide feedback. Having multiple "secret" forums where you obtain feedback just adds to the lack of trust issues that I as a customer currently have concerning SSG. I have seen comments in the mini change forum about some discord you use to get feedback. I have no clue or idea what that is all about. I did not know there was an official LOTRO discord for feedback on changes. I thought these forums were the place to voice comments.

That might be a good first start with communications. Tell us where to post our comments and where to provide feedback. If these forums are not used then tell us what forums you are using for feedback.

For the record, there are no "secret" forums. There is one set of official forums and those forums are here. We collect feedback from many other vectors including player discords where we sometimes lurk. I get a lot of my feedback from within the game. All feedback regardless of where it is acquired has merit. The only place with official communications is on these forums.

[elvenes]

For the record, there are no "secret" forums. There is one set of official forums and those forums are here. We collect feedback from many other vectors including player discords where we sometimes lurk. I get a lot of my feedback from within the game. All feedback regardless of where it is acquired has merit. The only place with official communications is on these forums.

then please remind this to your colleagues who apparently have the time to chat on the discords, but never here, the OFFICIAL place and the only right one where they should interact with the customers about game related changes.

[Trobon]

then please remind this to your colleagues who apparently have the time to chat on the discords, but never here, the OFFICIAL place and the only right one where they should interact with the customers about game related changes.

Comments like this are a reason why developers may be reluctant to have open lines of communication. This kind of twisting words and antagonism of developers spending time interacting with people just because they aren't doing it in your preferred style is so backwards to me. Interacting with customers about game related changes is not the same as official communication of those changes and trying to stifle how developers collect feedback and silence voices outside this forum leads to a worse game.

[Kolde]

Get an official Discord channel.

Basically every game, from the bigger MMOs to the little bitty independent single-players, all have an official Discord channel. I'm old and resistant to change and new-fangled technology, but even i recognize Discord as a necessary evil. There are multiple unofficial channels that keep everyone spread out, that doesn't help. Discord is quick and instant and most players use it already. Say, for example, if there is a massive wide-spread lag spike, Discord may likely get a large number of posts all at once, allowing you to see just exactly when and what was happening, rather than forum posts saying "something weird happened the other day."

The forums should still be the main discussion platform, and threads like this one are great. The smallest simplest statements or acknowledgements from devs or staff will help to quell and calm a lot of anxious players.

[GingerAj]

then please remind this to your colleagues who apparently have the time to chat on the discords, but never here, the OFFICIAL place and the only right one where they should interact with the customers about game related changes.

I'm not surprised that devs are posting on discords asking for information, lots of players are like you.

I wouldn't want your feedback either.

The players on the discord in question - actually have knowledge about Lotro as a game - trying to make classes engaging, fun and rewarding. Most forum goers seem to want their classes to stagnate, never be touched/buffed or nerfed.

I'm guessing its an older generation thing considering LOTR is an older IP.

[elvenes]

I stated a fact and not offended anybody. The devs are not made of glass, if they can't interact with their players on the official forums because they need to be coddled in a discord bubble, then this game's development is really going downhill. Feedback needs to be accepted from everyone, not just the select few

[Neinda]

For the record, there are no "secret" forums. There is one set of official forums and those forums are here. We collect feedback from many other vectors including player discords where we sometimes lurk. I get a lot of my feedback from within the game. All feedback regardless of where it is acquired has merit. The only place with official communications is on these forums.

All, I did not mean to have this post concerning customer relations/communications go off like this. It was a question since others have implied (in many other posts) that these forums are not where the devs prefer to get feedback. My apologies to all. Please don't change the topic because of a question I posted.

[Kylender]

Now the question,

What communication do you feel, as payers, is lacking from us? Specifically.

Dear Orion, I’m writing this to give my overall evaluation, but firstly, let me point out - I have no complaints about your doings whatsoever. I have been in the game since 2007, bought lifetime in 2009 and you are one of the devs I had high esteem for even way back in the day. A good designer is a good artist. I consider you a great artist.

Now, is the overall problem “communication”? No, I don’t think it is!

For me, it is the continuous erosion of trust. Trust cannot be built with just good communication. What has happened for me to lose trust in the company? It is a result of many many things over updates and years, perhaps none of them being too significant in itself to bring up. Here I would just mention (echo, really – as others have said quite eloquently before me even in this thread) two recent issues:

1. Reputation token case. It was a distinct decision with only (assumed) financial benefit for the company, with lowering the gameplay experience for every player across the board. I feel this is a typical example of a “cash grab” move. Instead of seeking ways how to leverage increase in customer satisfaction for superior financial gains (a win-win move), this particular case is a good example of a win-lose move.
Again, the token case itself is a small thing. But over the years, I’ve noticed patterns I cannot ignore.

2. Setting focus to new customers instead of old-timers. In some sense it is a downward spiral. A company alienates some old-timers through accumulated shady decisions, then sees revenue declining from that segment, then turns to newcomers instead to compensate.

While these issues are connected, let’s separate them for a moment. In terms of case #1, communication is irrelevant. It is clear that it is by no means related to any feedback. So it is not about 2-way communication. 1-way communication was technically in place – the players were told “this is how it is going to be” a bit in advance. But – when people point to the lack of communication, they mostly mean it is the 2-way sense. About well-timed meaningful feedback being considered in the development process. (Perhaps this is how it works on Palantir? Surely I can’t say it working on Bullroarer.). Perhaps the recent case of minstrel changes is something that could have been avoided with better communication, indeed. As I can't see there being any principle consideration of "making more money" behind it. But I find it more of an isolated case.

Case #2 is totally a thing of “strategic focus”. Whereas communication is an element of “tactical competence”. Even if all the tactical level staff were brilliant in terms of proper communication, this cannot change anything if the “big bosses” have decided to direct development-related resources differently.

Finally – what has been the “fun factor” for me in the game for the last 2-3 years? It is mainly the exceptional world building coupled with rather strong storytelling. On this front, kudos to all guys and gals behind it. You are, in my book, artists!

Has there been any game mechanics / systems related development lately that I could honestly commend? I am struggling to find examples. The new LI system had some great ideas, but was overcomplicated and grindified with enhancement runes. The virtue system is similar – great idea overcomplicated and grindified. The essence system – you might have guessed my feelings by now - overcomplicated and grindified.

Gosh, SoA times were fun. You had like 16 item slots and that was it! You killed some meanie, you found something in a chest, and this item made a difference for at least someone in the group! Simple does it!

Ok, now I’m ranting and derailing the thread. But – back to the point. Communication is not a major gripe for me. From my honest evaluation, you guys are pretty ok in terms of outreach, some more active than some others but… the problem is not at all in communication. So, please, if there is a chance, Orion, that you would take an idea from here to pass along to your superiors – the tactical communication is not an issue. The issue is far bigger and is in the hands of higher management. It is about the principle direction of the game as a business model and the diminishing role of “making the game fun”. If it is actually the case that the upper management thinks that some of the dodgy calls made by them can be remedied by "better communication", they are making a fool out of the players as well as out of people expected to "communicate better".

Just 2 cents from a random lifetimer.

[Neinda]

I

I'm guessing its an older generation thing considering LOTR is an older IP.

LOL, someday everyone here will be that person in the older generation. This is a game where grandparents play with their children and grandchildren as a family. When you include all age groups, all play styles, all skill and raid experience levels in making changes and adjustments we are all better off in the long term. Changes that target just one segment of a population as varied as we have here in LOTRO are not long term sustainable because segments of the population move on and you need something for everyone that remains.

[LagunaD2]

First, there is no reason to lob insults, at all. As I stated at the outset, it is not the inclination of every developer or designer to post as often as I do. We're all extremely busy getting the expansion ready.

The main criticism is quality, not quantity.

In the business world, suppose you had customers sending you reports on problems and suggested improvements in your product. For years.

And then, finally one day you meet with them, showing up completely unprepared, and the first words out of your mouth are:

"I couldn't be bothered to digest and formulate an informed response to your past reports over these many years. Would you mind repeating all of them for me now? Oh, and does our product inspire you to great deeds?"

Why should they take you seriously? I answered your query honestly. Laziness and condescension are what they are.

This is what you should (and for your part, mostly do - kudos to you) avoid.

[Bio-Flame]

The main criticism is quality, not quantity.

In the business world, suppose you had customers sending you reports on problems and suggested improvements in your product. For years.

And then, finally one day you meet with them, showing up completely unprepared, and the first words out of your mouth are:

"I couldn't be bothered to digest and formulate an informed response to your past reports over these many years. Would you mind repeating all of them for me now? Oh, and does our product inspire you to great deeds?"

Why should they take you seriously? I answered your query honestly. Laziness and condescension are what they are.

This is what you should (and for your part, mostly do - kudos to you) avoid.

To be fair, it's not Orion's fault though.
He's not the one to blame for the recent mess, the recent Mini debacle.


So, give him feedback, tell Orion what he asked for - why do we players think comunication is bad? - but don't blame him.
He's part of the solution, he's not part of the problem.



There's lots of people to blame (cough OMH cough cough) but Orion is not one.
He seems to be trying to do the right thing.




To Orion: you must understand that your customers are frustrated not with you, but with some Devs that treated us poorly and rudely. Any conversation on feedback and player perception of comunication has to start with these recent egregious interactions (or lack of).



Again: we, the players, should be SSG's greatest asset and triumph but we have been treated as if we were the enemy, as if we were Orcs.
Obviously, people are going to react to being treated like that. Can you blame them?

[Cherrio]

hello

first of all thanks for takeing ur time to talk to us.

second most of the commnication lacks are from poor information.

here is a few examples.

1. you guys announce a new expansion for low level players. ok great. but you do not go into detail takeing pictures of each item nor what they do. below is a few examples on where communication is made poor.

Housing Teleporter*** on new expansion before the shadow. ok but what is it? what does it look like. where does it go??

Scaled Flowing Silver Stone of the Tortoise <--- ok what does it do? what does it look like ? how does it work ?
Scaled Flowing Silver Stone <-- same as above what does it do how does it work and etc etc no pictures nothing.

this clear lack of information on items and announcements and such is confuseing to say the least and makes one wonder. MAKE it clear and precise! do not matter what announcement you make just make it clear. and if you mention items put a picture of it and make sure we know what and how it looks like and what they do.

2. Supporter packs ok seems like a good idea. but there is no communication on how long they last or when is last date to purchase one. so how can we save money to buy one if we dont know when they end?
Also it states if you buy one you can uppgrade later. Ok? but can you uppgrade later even if they dissapear from the site?? or is it time sensitive???

i just wish things was more clearly stated and more open. i buy all the collectors editions you guys put out but sometimes i feel like you guys dont really take the time to sell the item. a simple picture and a description of the item to much to ask?

thanks and have a good week.