Have your modelers even seen a bear?

[Angis1]

Is this what a bear looks like?
NO! It is not what a bear looks like.
This is what I call an absolute disaster.
Who in their right mind would let this get used?





Let me help you out.
Not one but two bears! Yes you get a bonus bear!
See these bears, they are not abominations.
Let me guess, your model will remain a joke for as long as the game is live, right?
I mean, why would you fix it?

[DavidmeetHal]

I usually gloss over complaints, but I have to agree with this. That is something that really should be corrected.

[istvana]

There are many types of bear - perhaps this looks closer to one or more of the other types. Though I am less fussy than you and think "absolute disaster" is an extreme over-reaction. I also doubt that asking whether they have ever seen a bear is quite the best way to get their attention. It has often been said that more polite suggestions are more likely to get a positive reaction than somewhat snippy criticism.

[TesalionLortus]

Well, the one from OP's screenshot IS a bit weird, if anything it would probably work ok as one of LOTRO's pseudo-bears or half-rotten ones. Is it a pet? Or companion one? Maybe it uses a wrong model and nobody ever noticed...

I suggest to report it as a bug.


I took a look at some of the bear entries on the lotro wiki and seems like they aren't that bad throughout the game:

[blacknazgul13]

Maybe it's just the Beornings that look wonky

[River94]

alien bears

[Neinda]

They are not really bears. They are Hobbits in disguise Reminds me of how my dog looks when he is begging for a treat.

[DavidmeetHal]

Maybe it's just the Beornings that look wonky

Beornings are wonky, especially mentally.

[Arnenna]

I'll agree that most LOTRO bears I have seen in game, have heads that are too large for their bodies, but I can't say I've ever seen one with front legs like we see in the screenshot in the OP. Those legs are way too long and would give that bear the stance of a gorilla when standing up straight. Hopefully, that's just one stray bear in the game as it looks really alien.

[Mithithil]

I can only deduce from the extreme certainty of the OP that he has personally witnessed the appearance of a bear that can turn into a huiman and vice versa...

This is right up there with those suggesting that wolves are not fundamentally evil and that it is unrealistic to suggest otherwise.

Maybe so, but this is how it works in game.

But, in the OP's defence, have any of the armour and weapon desiogners considered how you might actually fight wearing and wielding that stuff?

A glass of port with you all.

[Flaxie]

This is right up there with those suggesting that wolves are not fundamentally evil and that it is unrealistic to suggest otherwise.

.

I am one who is bothered by this, but this is Tolkien's Middle Earth, and apparently, he held this erroneous prejudice, so I don't complain.
There are also many examples of quest text stating that wolves are descended from hounds, which is obviously false. *sigh*
Not my world, not my decision.

[istvana]

"This is right up there with those suggesting that wolves are not fundamentally evil and that it is unrealistic to suggest otherwise."

Are you sure you aren't confusing wolves with wargs?

[Flaxie]

"This is right up there with those suggesting that wolves are not fundamentally evil and that it is unrealistic to suggest otherwise."

Are you sure you aren't confusing wolves with wargs?

Positive. This has irritated me for years, and each time I run across it I'm grouchy for about an hour. The man hated wolves.
He was completely invested in the "Big Bad Wolf" fallacy.

[TesalionLortus]

Positive. This has irritated me for years, and each time I run across it I'm grouchy for about an hour. The man hated wolves.
He was completely invested in the "Big Bad Wolf" fallacy.

Well, fairy tales. Besides, a wild wolf isn't exactly something safe to be around, so works.

The early draft of Beren and Luthien had a fortress of... cats. With a fat cat king. Rather than Sauron. So go figure Bad savage wolves aren't such a bad concept here, compared with what could have been :P

[Flaxie]

Well, fairy tales. Besides, a wild wolf isn't exactly something safe to be around, so works.

The early draft of Beren and Luthien had a fortress of... cats. With a fat cat king. Rather than Sauron. So go figure Bad savage wolves aren't such a bad concept here, compared with what could have been :P

rofl. Don't want to think of what might have been, agreed.

That said, have you ever met a wild wolf? I have, when I was 14 or so. Was camping in my back yard, and felt
something push against my foot from the outside of the tent. When I looked out I saw it was a lovely little
half-grown wolf. Got a pretty good look at him before I heard his mum cough a distinctive "Get your skinny butt
back here and leave that human alone!" from back in the woods. When he took off I could hear the whole pack
moving through the woods. Not scared, not running silent, they were clearly letting me know where they were.
It was an obvious "We won't bother you if you don't bother us, and please excuse Junior."

[TesalionLortus]

rofl. Don't want to think of what might have been, agreed.

That said, have you ever met a wild wolf? I have, when I was 14 or so. Was camping in my back yard, and felt
something push against my foot from the outside of the tent. When I looked out I saw it was a lovely little
half-grown wolf. Got a pretty good look at him before I heard his mum cough a distinctive "Get your skinny butt
back here and leave that human alone!" from back in the woods. When he took off I could hear the whole pack
moving through the woods. Not scared, not running silent, they were clearly letting me know where they were.
It was an obvious "We won't bother you if you don't bother us, and please excuse Junior."

Wow. That's a great story, thanks for sharing!

Well, clearly it's not like the intention of a wolf is violent, and that's true of any animal. But they're animals and more prone to violence on instinct if threatened and what could be considered a threat can vary. The thing in Tolkien is that things need to be seen through the lenses of his mythos and it's more like certain types of animals have been favored by Morgoth guys, so in a way even nature got a "side" which may then be turned into generational thing. It especially concerns talking animals and wolfs, at least more powerful ones, seem to be part of that (as were the unrealized cats), and with intelligence often comes capability for malice for its own sake (that's a human trait, animals don't really do that). But with wild life, even in LOTRO, there is usually some sort of "frenzy" mentioned that causes them to become that. So that's a plausibility to slay them and get rid of them, not something utterly off and not really bad extermination of nature.

[shino047]

I'll agree that most LOTRO bears I have seen in game, have heads that are too large for their bodies, but I can't say I've ever seen one with front legs like we see in the screenshot in the OP. Those legs are way too long and would give that bear the stance of a gorilla when standing up straight. Hopefully, that's just one stray bear in the game as it looks really alien.

That's a beorning in the screenshot btw, not just some random npc bear... I wish it was just 1 but all beornings have alien legs XD

[TesalionLortus]

That's a beorning in the screenshot btw, not just some random npc bear... I wish it was just 1 but all beornings have alien legs XD

Well, I never really take care to look at beorning bears... so first time see. But sounds like something wrong to me? Maybe... you Beornings never complained loud enough or never even filled a bug report about this lol

[Flaxie]

Ooops. Sorry, I kind of derailed the train of the thread here. Didn't mean to, just that it was the first time I saw an opening to discuss
Tolkien's anti-wolf bias. As I said earlier, his world, his choice, so I'll drop [t now. That bear does look awful though...

[Gandolf_TheOld]

Positive. This has irritated me for years, and each time I run across it I'm grouchy for about an hour. The man hated wolves.
He was completely invested in the "Big Bad Wolf" fallacy.

Wolves, in and of themselves, are not good or evil. Like any predator, they kill what they can and eat it. However, wolves will hunt you and make a meal of you, if otherwise easier prey is not available.

J.R.R Tolkien is probably basing the wolves of LOTRO on the Dire Wolf, a larger and more aggressive wolf.

Where have I seen wolves? Alaska, Western and northwestern Canada, Wyoming, and Montana.

North American Range

“The man hated wolves.” Other than opinion, any support for this claim?

[orangeman]

So it's a Beorning and not a bear. A Beorning should have longer front legs unless he's going to morph back into a dwarf or a T-rex. And this is Tolkien's universe so I think the artists have some creative leeway as to how they want creatures to look. Maybe they'll soften the look someday like they did when the High Elf first came out and looked VERY strange riding a horse. Or maybe not. Tolkien had very little to say in describing Beornings except that they were skin-changers who could take the form of bears. I don't have a problem with the look but I rarely play my Beorning now.
l

[Mithithil]

Wolves, in and of themselves, are not good or evil. Like any predator, they kill what they can and eat it. However, wolves will hunt you and make a meal of you, if otherwise easier prey is not available.

J.R.R Tolkien is probably basing the wolves of LOTRO on the Dire Wolf, a larger and more aggressive wolf.

Where have I seen wolves? Alaska, Western and northwestern Canada, Wyoming, and Montana.

North American Range

“The man hated wolves.” Other than opinion, any support for this claim?

The wolves of ME are based on the folklore of North Western Europe which differs from that used in the US. By the same token I find the wolf stuff in the The Belgariad and associated series rather unconvincing necause its is very much the US "wolves are nice, cuddly and misrepresented by Europeans". The Chinese and Japanses probably see dragons in a rather more positive light than we Westerners.

You need to view your folk lore from the pov of the relevant folk and I suggest that the Professor was significantly more versed in same that most of us will ever be.

[Daguest]

Positive. This has irritated me for years, and each time I run across it I'm grouchy for about an hour. The man hated wolves.
He was completely invested in the "Big Bad Wolf" fallacy.

First, it's important to note the wolves are not bad for the most part in Tolkien's work. The evil ones are either Wargs (wolves bred by Sauron, and capable of speech), or Sauron himself. Since the wargs look like wolves for the most part, there is often a confusion (often made by the characters themselves) in the books.

As for the bad wolves/wargs, Tolkien probably took his inspiration from old myths and fairy tales. In the dark ages, wolves were numerous in Europe. They often did not hesitate to attack and kill cattle, and if the winter proved very nasty, sometimes people to. Usually children since they were a lesser threat compared to adults (and often were charged to guard the animals). The killing of cattle was bad enough, but the killing of people especially children was even worse. Those attacks were rare, but it's also important to note rabies exist and it happened a wolf contracted the disease, pushing it to attack people. Those attacks became worse as the population kept growing in Europe, and the local prey (and wooded territories for wolves) kept on shrinking.
And just like tigers or bears, once in a while a wolf or a small group of them would become "man hunters" and had to be hunted down.


I think the most popular tale of wolves attacking people is probably the Beast of Gevaudan tale, which is a popular one in France, and I think it's relatively well known in western Europe. It's a very interesting one, and mix fairytale and facts, so it's kinda difficult (even to this days) to know the actual truth. For those not familiar with the story, the Beast of Gevaudan was a wolf which terrorized the Gevaudan (in France) in the XVIIIth century for 3 years. Wiki says roughly 230attacks from the beast, with nearly a hundred killed. It might even have been more since the first official death mention "it was killed by the Beast" as if it was not the first. The beast was said to be a big wolf, strangely not scared at all by people, going as far as to attack during the day and even group of people. Also, very cunning, and despite being wounded at least 3 times (2 by a gun, 1 by a spear in its chest by a local young woman), it survived. It was hunted by locals, a military light brigade and the King's hunter. Eventually, the King's hunter killed a big wolf and claimed it was the beast. However, attacks started again later on, until a local killed another big wolf. Which prompted the attacks to stop. A few days later, another group of hunter found and killed a female big wolf and her pups.
Despite a lot of random fictions and conspiracy theories, historians think it was likely to be the 3 wolves I mentioned. But there are theories it may have been a wolf-dog hybrid, or even a more exotic creature like a hyena.


This kind of tales eventually inspired the "bad wolf" thing, and likely, the bad wolf in Tolkien stories.

Fun fact, this is how the Beast was officially drawn, when it was presented to the king by his hunter :
http://venerie.documalis.com/?DocID={937949E2-23CA-49BB-AEFC-F27B8EA5A6EC}
As you can see, it doesn't look that different from the bear we have. Might even be its model

[CloudCastle]

I think the most popular tale of wolves attacking people is probably the Beast of Gevaudan tale, which is a popular one in France, and I think it's relatively well known in western Europe. It's a very interesting one, and mix fairytale and facts, so it's kinda difficult (even to this days) to know the actual truth. For those not familiar with the story, the Beast of Gevaudan was a wolf which terrorized the Gevaudan (in France) in the XVIIIth century for 3 years. Wiki says roughly 230attacks from the beast, with nearly a hundred killed. It might even have been more since the first official death mention "it was killed by the Beast" as if it was not the first. The beast was said to be a big wolf, strangely not scared at all by people, going as far as to attack during the day and even group of people. Also, very cunning, and despite being wounded at least 3 times (2 by a gun, 1 by a spear in its chest by a local young woman), it survived. It was hunted by locals, a military light brigade and the King's hunter. Eventually, the King's hunter killed a big wolf and claimed it was the beast. However, attacks started again later on, until a local killed another big wolf. Which prompted the attacks to stop. A few days later, another group of hunter found and killed a female big wolf and her pups.
Despite a lot of random fictions and conspiracy theories, historians think it was likely to be the 3 wolves I mentioned. But there are theories it may have been a wolf-dog hybrid, or even a more exotic creature like a hyena.


This kind of tales eventually inspired the "bad wolf" thing, and likely, the bad wolf in Tolkien stories.

I'm reading your description and thinking, "now why does this story sound so familar?" Then I remembered that I saw a movie with this same plot and according to IMDB it was in fact based on this story. The film is Brotherhood of the Wolf. Pretty interesting movie. Kind of overly dramatic (but in a fun sort of way), and more violent than I was expecting, but it's a crazy mix of mystery/supernatural/martial arts all rolled together, with a few surprises at the end.

[Daguest]

I saw the movie to, a while ago While highly fictional (the characters didn't even exist), it's still based on the same story. Due to its nature and the relative inaccuracy of witnesses, the story spawned many "fictions" and myths. At the time, priests called the beast "God's Bane", and said it was sent to kill sinners. Only prayers would protect people. Didn't work in case anybody's wondering. Also, a popular tale about "young ladies" being seduced by a hairy and burly man in the wood, and the creature being their progeny. Obviously, the beast being a werewolf. Or a bunch of serial killer disguised in wolf. And the most popular of all (due to a fiction published in 1946 that some historian mistakenly took as an accurate work), a tamed wolf-dog wearing a leather armor, used by some local for some evil scheme (usually related to the local who killed the second wolf, putting an end to the carnage). As I said, lots of theories and folk tale around

To my knowledge, the Beast of Gevaudan is the biggest recorded wolf attack we have. Considering Gevaudan was sparsely populated at the time (which probably explain how difficult it was to catch the beast), it left a real mark, even to this day. You have a lot of museum, touristic stuff and statues to the "heroes" of the time. I mean, 230attacks (sometimes on group of people) when you have a few thousands people living in the area (at best) meant it was a big thing. Especially since it was small villages dotting the land.

It was hardly the only recorded wolf attack, but many of them were rabid and made a few victims before being killed (either by the people or by the disease). Considering how gruesome the kills are (they are animals after all), and how it was a lot against children, it led to the whole "bad wolf" thing.
OFC, wolves are, by nature, afraid of people. But due to the high number of animal back then, accident did happen. And due to how gruesome it was, people hardly forgot.