Where exactly will all the class trait points come from now?

[Digaloo]

Will someone please explain to me exactly where all the class trait points are going to come from now.

We are supposed to have 98 points at level 140.

Firstly I thought we were going to get one point per 2 levels up to 140 which is 70 (Not 98)

Then I read that we were going to get 1 point per level up to 22 then 1 point per 2 levels from 23 to 140 which is : 21 + 59 = 80 (Again not 98)

I cannot work this out so please can someone who knows how it is going to work, explain this to me i.e. how do we get 98 points at level 140.

[Digaloo]

So, nobody's got a clue then?

[savetheroadtodoriath]

You get it from leveling. The particular levels don't really matter unless you just want to complain.

[Plidak]

You get it from leveling. The particular levels don't really matter unless you just want to complain.

This

[Fr0striven]

Will someone please explain to me exactly where all the class trait points are going to come from now.

We are supposed to have 98 points at level 140.

Firstly I thought we were going to get one point per 2 levels up to 140 which is 70 (Not 98)

Then I read that we were going to get 1 point per level up to 22 then 1 point per 2 levels from 23 to 140 which is : 21 + 59 = 80 (Again not 98)

I cannot work this out so please can someone who knows how it is going to work, explain this to me i.e. how do we get 98 points at level 140.

Cord replied in the Bullroarer feedback thread and others chimed in with all the details. It works out to the 98 by 140.

[Tralfazz]

This is what we know based on a post from Cordovan and in-game testing done by a player:
---------- ---------- ---------- ----------- ----------

In general, players now earn 1 point every level from 2-22, then 1 point every other level thereafter. Bonus points are given at level caps, and content releases that only raised the level cap by 5 distribute a point every level through that range.

I like the idea to remove the need for completing deeds to get trait points. The way the reward works with the current bullroarer update results in less usable trait points at most old level caps though (up to -10 points at 100/105). This change is going to hurt groups on the legendary servers and tortoise groups doing old level cap content on live.

Changes in vailable trait points. Old numbers count all trait points that a character can currently get at a certain level on the live servers.

50	37/39 -> 35 (-2/4)
60	45 -> 42 (-3)
65	48 -> 47 (-1)
75	53 -> 53 (+/-0)
85	58 -> 59 (+1)
95	68 -> 65 (-3)
100	80 -> 70 (-10)
105	85 -> 75 (-10)
115	90 -> 81 (-9)
120	93 -> 86 (-7)
130	98 -> 92 (-6)
140	101 (98) -> 98 (+/-0)

[Halphast]

This is what we know based on a post from Cordovan and in-game testing done by a player:
---------- ---------- ---------- ----------- ----------

Is the chart accurate? It came out pretty early and there was a lot of discussion that followed, some saying it would add up to more points, some less. I'm in the position on the live servers of having a newish character who just finished grinding all of the skill deeds, class books, and old angmar-item quests... when this goes live (according to the chart) I wasted all that effort and on top of that will lose points. :/

[l6rp24e57]

I wasted all that effort and on top of that will lose points.

Correct.

[Frisco]

Is the chart accurate? It came out pretty early and there was a lot of discussion that followed, some saying it would add up to more points, some less. I'm in the position on the live servers of having a newish character who just finished grinding all of the skill deeds, class books, and old angmar-item quests... when this goes live (according to the chart) I wasted all that effort and on top of that will lose points. :/

It's accurate, but keep in mind that counts having both Epic Battle promotion points by L50, which only the most masochistic people have, given EBs scale so poorly and PUGs are basically nonexistent. So if you don't have yours, you'll mostly be ahead on points until L100. And to be fair, it was a little crazy that L85-95 netted 12 points, and so did L95-100. But that was because trait trees came out in Helm's Deep and they needed to make it exciting for people leveling from 85 to 95. And the L100 trait points got added over the course of 2 years in the expansionless era.

The new system will smooth out the point acquisition and make the game more enjoyable for low-level characters. And the loss of trait points from L100-130 is more than offset by the power increase of the new LI system.

That said, getting all those points at higher levels gave players something to look forward to when all other avenues of character progress had dried up (class deeds, new skills, lack of end game raid gear from L86-105). Plus the sheer slog of the huge areas of Rohan and Gondor where the quests are all on strict rails. I feel like a lot of people are still going to skip some or all of those zones, only now they can do it in Missions/XP farms instead of needing a Valar for the Gondor/Rohan/EB trait point packages.

[Hierona]

Is the chart accurate? It came out pretty early and there was a lot of discussion that followed, some saying it would add up to more points, some less. I'm in the position on the live servers of having a newish character who just finished grinding all of the skill deeds, class books, and old angmar-item quests... when this goes live (according to the chart) I wasted all that effort and on top of that will lose points. :/

You should have the same at the end, and landscape is easy as hell, so no problem with this system, only less grind.

[Digaloo]

OK, I think I have worked this out now. So...

1 point per level from 2 to 22 then 1 point per 2 levels from 23 to 140 = 80 points
PLUS
2 points at levels 50, 65, 75, 85, 95, 115, 130 & 140 = 16 (As the level cap was raised by at least 10 levels)
AND
1 point at levels 100 and 120 = 2 (As the level cap was only raised by 5 levels)

So, 80 + 16 + 2 = 98

The thing I wonder about now is : (and I use the word 'less' rather than 'no' - even though the word 'no' is what is at the back of my mind)

There is going to be less incentive to use your skills to gain points as this won't happen anymore
There is going to be less incentive for anyone to complete their level 39 deeds (collecting pages)
There is going to be less incentive for anyone to complete their level 45 class quest (and consequently less incentive to run Urugarth and Carn Dum)
There is going to be less incentive for anyone to complete Moria (i.e. up to book 6)
There is going to be less incentive for anyone to do Big Battles and get the 2 points associated with them
There is going to be less incentive for anyone to attend the wedding
There is going to be less incentive for anyone to complete many of the Epic steps that previously awarded class trait points

In fact, the main drive now to get class trait points is going to be power levelling!

[Brinswith]

OK, I think I have worked this out now. So...

1 point per level from 2 to 22 then 1 point per 2 levels from 23 to 140 = 80 points
PLUS
2 points at levels 50, 65, 75, 85, 95, 115, 130 & 140 = 16 (As the level cap was raised by at least 10 levels)
AND
1 point at levels 100 and 120 = 2 (As the level cap was only raised by 5 levels)

So, 80 + 16 + 2 = 98

The thing I wonder about now is : (and I use the word 'less' rather than 'no' - even though the word 'no' is what is at the back of my mind)

There is going to be less incentive to use your skills to gain points as this won't happen anymore
There is going to be less incentive for anyone to complete their level 39 deeds (collecting pages)
There is going to be less incentive for anyone to complete their level 45 class quest (and consequently less incentive to run Urugarth and Carn Dum)
There is going to be less incentive for anyone to complete Moria (i.e. up to book 6)
There is going to be less incentive for anyone to do Big Battles and get the 2 points associated with them
There is going to be less incentive for anyone to attend the wedding
There is going to be less incentive for anyone to complete many of the Epic steps that previously awarded class trait points

In fact, the main drive now to get class trait points is going to be power levelling!

Correct. A new player may as well just purchase a Valar and be done with it. (Which I think may be the driving force for some of these changes).

[DoRonRon]

Well, some things offered up to incentivise previous cash purchases disincentivises future cash purchases. It's not like the nonsense of repeated valar use at the level boosted wasn't pointed out, repeatedly.

Doesn't mean that a content contained trait point inducement won't still be in the toolbox for another time. The net has been opened back up at the cost of those who are still levelling and did go out of their way to make earnings in-game or if paying for such via valars if not free. Undermining achievement made in the game the consequence of pandering to those willing to pay instead.

There's usually something to be gained from giving more consideration to changes and additions that SSG's content delivery cycle nor their assessment of it allows them.

[Feuerhaar]

This is the complete ttrait-point table collected from Bullroarer. First, third and fifth collum are the levels that give a traitpoint. Second, fourth and sixth are the total number of trait points we will have at that level. Yellow are historical level caps.



The data (outside of levels 3-9) was collected by increasing a new characters level one by one using our trusted tavern NPCs.

So it goes one:

• 2 - 20: 1 per level

• 21 - 60: 1 per odd level + 1 at 50, 60

• 61 - 65 (Mirkwood): 1 per level

• 66 - 95 (Isengard, East + West Rohan): 1 per even level + 1 at 75, 85, 95

• 96 - 105 (Gondor): 1 per level

• 106 - 115 (Mordor): 1 per even level + 1 at 115

• 116 - 120 (Ered Mithrin): 1 per level

• 121 - 140 (Minas Morgul, Gundabad): 1 per odd level + 1 at 130, 140

[ertr]

The thing I wonder about now is : (and I use the word 'less' rather than 'no' - even though the word 'no' is what is at the back of my mind)

There is going to be less incentive to use your skills to gain points as this won't happen anymore
There is going to be less incentive for anyone to complete their level 39 deeds (collecting pages)
There is going to be less incentive for anyone to complete their level 45 class quest (and consequently less incentive to run Urugarth and Carn Dum)
There is going to be less incentive for anyone to complete Moria (i.e. up to book 6)

Less incentive, yes, but hardly no incentive. We still get Lotro Points from those deeds I hope, which seems like decent incentive to me.
As for Urugarth and Carn Dum, the items you get from them for the class quests have been available in the skirmish camps for a long time now. So no change in incentive there.

There is going to be less incentive for anyone to do Big Battles and get the 2 points associated with them
There is going to be less incentive for anyone to attend the wedding
There is going to be less incentive for anyone to complete many of the Epic steps that previously awarded class trait points

In fact, the main drive now to get class trait points is going to be power levelling!

Not having to run Big Battles lots of times is a Very Good Thing in my view.
I would hope that the main reason for doing the Epic is for the story, rather than just to get trait points. (Though that may of course change when people are leveling their umpteenth alt.)

[Halphast]

This is the complete ttrait-point table collected from Bullroarer

Thank you so much for posting this! That sounds like a really tedious process to make the table, but the results don't look as bad as earlier estimates.

[wispsong]

Correct. A new player may as well just purchase a Valar and be done with it. (Which I think may be the driving force for some of these changes).

You got to be kidding. Why get a Valar for all the trait points when I soon get them levelling and can skip the unfun content anyways? If you need trait points locked behind the content to do the content, then maybe you just feel forced to do it and rather buy a Valar to get them all. Now we have more options to pick and choose what we want to play without losing something as important as trait points.

[Brinswith]

You got to be kidding. Why get a Valar for all the trait points when I soon get them levelling and can skip the unfun content anyways? If you need trait points locked behind the content to do the content, then maybe you just feel forced to do it and rather buy a Valar to get them all. Now we have more options to pick and choose what we want to play without losing something as important as trait points.

Not kidding at all. I don't think I gave any reason for you to think I was which makes your comment rather bizarre. I don't think we should be giving new players more reasons not to run through the content. There were already 101 available trait points which meant you had alternative routes to play through. I would have welcomed more of those alternative paths.

[DoRonRon]

I'm loosing 5 traits on my 116 and my 122, gaining 1 point on the 106. Being stoned they are far more impacted ofc, my choice though. I can resist moving them up the ladder. While they can still contribute to some of the embers grind there is little point to put them into a position where they are further draws on them.

[wispsong]

Not kidding at all. I don't think I gave any reason for you to think I was which makes your comment rather bizarre. I don't think we should be giving new players more reasons not to run through the content. There were already 101 available trait points which meant you had alternative routes to play through. I would have welcomed more of those alternative paths.

New players will run through content because it's new to them. There is also more incentive than trait points to run said content. And 101/98 is really not a big difference considering how many of them are behind deeds. As of right now I only get 55 levelling. If I don't play the "correct" content and do all these boring deeds (metas in Old Anorien) I miss out on a lot more then 3.