Creep Movement.

[Vilan]

Since the Delving is currently shut down, any chance of having Gaergoth/Rottenroot/Grodris added to the main Moors map? You could make them roving threats or warbands. Stick them in some random out-of-the-way places and you can encourage that map roaming.

I also like the idea of sending a zone-wide warning that a keep is being attacked BEFORE it flips rather than after. Maybe just when the Tyrant/CG is being attacked.

[Pusher]

Any chance of having Gaergoth/Rottenroot/Grodris added to the main Moors map? You could make them roving threats or warbands.

I like this idea.

[Ravyrn]

I regularly play on creepside (more than on freepside by a wide margin for most of my time since 07). Moving around aggressive mobs is annoying at times (leaving TR rez surrounded by Coldfells bears especially) but it's far from impossible. Most of the in-between parts of the map are either devoid of mobs, full of creep-friendly mobs, or full of neutral mobs which don't attack you immediately.

Any thoughts on making wargs' Sense Prey trait a 120m radius stealth tracker? Wargs have to trait for it, hunters do not. And there are a lot of burgs out this update that need tracking.

[J-Moneyforever]

OMG !!

This is a PVP - yes PVP zone... not PVE. Forget about quest rewards FFS.

If you want to make quest rewards then create a PVE zon of the ettenmoor and add it to Cardolan but if you are serious about PVP yes "PVP" then please concentrate on the fight between creep and freep. nothing else!

This is a reductive and shallow take. "PVE" of sorts has been an integral part of some of the best PvP MMOs of the last 2 decades. From DAOC to Warhammer to Early ESO to GW2 there are PvE type objectives that incentivize and generate PvP action that is meaningful rather than the pointless braindead shuffle between TR/GV or Lugz/Grams that exists now. Meaningful map objectives and quests create diverse and spread out PvP that can cater to everyone instead of a mindless shuffle that everyone hates.

[Daugon]

Wow I can't believe how disgusting people are acting in this thread. If you have criticisms, at least make them constructive instead of "new things bad because it changes something" or literally just straight up attacking a dev. I've also been playing this game since 2007 closed beta and 99% of my PVP time has been as a creep. I actually really like the new map changes, especially when Forced March breaks at a certain damage threshold, as mentioned by Onn. I very, very much prefer to have more roaming conflicts rather than map to location, zerg, map out.

And maps aren't removed, they just have a longer cooldown. And no, an hour cooldown does not "practically" make them obsolete. I've also seen people mention "getting a stopwatch" and timing how long it takes creeps to move across the map. Okay? I've done it and it takes like 5 minutes to get from Grams to GV. The Etts are honestly a pretty tiny region and when creep speed gets bumped even higher to 65%, it will be even faster to get across the map. I've played games where 99% of the game is running with 1% being actual conflict. Personally, I prefer having some roving downtime. It makes the engagements that much more meaningful. Having maps also makes dying more of a "who cares?" situation and I do not like that. Also, with the 65% run speed for creeps being added, Reavers have actually gotten a huge buff, as they can now reliably catch freeps on horses. It's not just the Wargs any more.

And to all the people talking about "maximizing PvP", I don't think that's what you really want. If we want to "maximize PvP", the devs should just make a small box where creeps and freeps fight each other Civil War style, constantly face to face. Delete the Etts.

Yes, creeps still need some stats tuned and frankly I'd like to see a pretty drastic overall damage and mit buff to creeps, and the heals nerfed a bit, but I think we're overall in a better spot than we were a few months ago. I'd also like to see quest rewards get some sort of buff now that maps are far less important to grind for. But in the end, I really do like the map change.

[Kate00]

Wow I can't believe how disgusting people are acting in this thread. If you have criticisms, at least make them constructive instead of "new things bad because it changes something" or literally just straight up attacking a dev. I've also been playing this game since 2007 closed beta and 99% of my PVP time has been as a creep. I actually really like the new map changes, especially when Forced March breaks at a certain damage threshold, as mentioned by Onn. I very, very much prefer to have more roaming conflicts rather than map to location, zerg, map out.

And maps aren't removed, they just have a longer cooldown. And no, an hour cooldown does not "practically" make them obsolete. I've also seen people mention "getting a stopwatch" and timing how long it takes creeps to move across the map. Okay? I've done it and it takes like 5 minutes to get from Grams to GV. The Etts are honestly a pretty tiny region and when creep speed gets bumped even higher to 65%, it will be even faster to get across the map. I've played games where 99% of the game is running with 1% being actual conflict. Personally, I prefer having some roving downtime. It makes the engagements that much more meaningful. Having maps also makes dying more of a "who cares?" situation and I do not like that. Also, with the 65% run speed for creeps being added, Reavers have actually gotten a huge buff, as they can now reliably catch freeps on horses. It's not just the Wargs any more.

And to all the people talking about "maximizing PvP", I don't think that's what you really want. If we want to "maximize PvP", the devs should just make a small box where creeps and freeps fight each other Civil War style, constantly face to face. Delete the Etts.

Yes, creeps still need some stats tuned and frankly I'd like to see a pretty drastic overall damage and mit buff to creeps, and the heals nerfed a bit, but I think we're overall in a better spot than we were a few months ago. I'd also like to see quest rewards get some sort of buff now that maps are far less important to grind for. But in the end, I really do like the map change.

i don’t understand why March wasn’t buffed up to max to begin with?

Yay! Reavers can sometimes catch horses. What about defilers?

[OnnMacMahal]

A couple points to clarify about March, as of today's patch.


The skill tooltip says 32% (this is a bug) but the actual movement speed is 65%. This is faster than 'normal' 62% freep horses, and slower than 'better' 68% freep horses.
The 65% movement speed will not stack with other movement speed bonuses.

It requires you to stand still for a .75s induction, significantly shorter than freep mount inductions.

The skill will be broken by swimming, entering keeps, or being interrupted by an enemy, but will not be broken by entering combat.

You cannot use skills while Marching. Using an immediate skill will cancel March (using the immediate skill) but you can also queue a skill and then click March to turn it off, immediately firing the queued skill.

At the moment, you can't interact with NPCs or objects while Marching. This will be fixed soon.

[SSG_Orion]

Since the Delving is currently shut down, any chance of having Gaergoth/Rottenroot/Grodris added to the main Moors map? You could make them roving threats or warbands. Stick them in some random out-of-the-way places and you can encourage that map roaming.

I also like the idea of sending a zone-wide warning that a keep is being attacked BEFORE it flips rather than after. Maybe just when the Tyrant/CG is being attacked.

Gary and his friends will return. There are plans to have them tear free of the Ettendeep.

[Areyekuwe]

A couple points to clarify about March, as of today's patch.


The skill tooltip says 32% (this is a bug) but the actual movement speed is 65%. This is faster than 'normal' 62% freep horses, and slower than 'better' 68% freep horses.
The 65% movement speed will not stack with other movement speed bonuses.

It requires you to stand still for a .75s induction, significantly shorter than freep mount inductions.

The skill will be broken by swimming, entering keeps, or being interrupted by an enemy, but will not be broken by entering combat.

You cannot use skills while Marching. Using an immediate skill will cancel March (using the immediate skill) but you can also queue a skill and then click March to turn it off, immediately firing the queued skill.

At the moment, you can't interact with NPCs or objects while Marching. This will be fixed soon.

PvMP

Mount-barring hotspots now apply to Creeps.
March is now a channeled induction which can be broken by damage, or immediately cancelled by swimming, being interrupted, or entering a mounts-not-allowed area.
Mobilise now correctly works in combat, does not overwrite March, and does not affect your ability to block, parry, or evade.

Movement wise this is very nice.

A thought though. Can we have it made into it's own skill and have old (before updates) March restored? As in sometimes say defiler following a relic carrier wants to be able to fire off heals....

Essentially following the structure:
Walk;
Run; <--- seems to be missing (as it was replaced by the mount speed)
Mount

[CarenC]

Ok this is just getting absurd now. a Channel skill for March and you cannot do anything with March skill on, not even turning in quest or picking up troll stone. So you have to turn off skill pick up troll stone and wait a full 60 secs before turning March back on. REALLY???? and I see no change in Mobilize so still a wasted skill that does absolutely nothing. Who ever thought of messing with the Warleaders movement skills just needs to reprogram it back to what it was before. Until you fix this movement skills on my creeps, I will not be back. I am so tired of SSG messing up creeps and making it unenjoyable to play

[DSBoomer]

Movement wise this is very nice.

A thought though. Can we have it made into it's own skill and have old (before updates) March restored? As in sometimes say defiler following a relic carrier wants to be able to fire off heals....

Essentially following the structure:
Walk;
Run; <--- seems to be missing (as it was replaced by the mount speed)
Mount

Valid point. It's either fast as hell or time to die. No middle ground.

[OnnMacMahal]

Ok this is just getting absurd now. a Channel skill for March and you cannot do anything with March skill on, not even turning in quest or picking up troll stone. So you have to turn off skill pick up troll stone and wait a full 60 secs before turning March back on. REALLY???? and I see no change in Mobilize so still a wasted skill that does absolutely nothing. Who ever thought of messing with the Warleaders movement skills just needs to reprogram it back to what it was before. Until you fix this movement skills on my creeps, I will not be back. I am so tired of SSG messing up creeps and making it unenjoyable to play

There's no cooldown on March, so I'm not sure why you're suggesting you need to wait 60 seconds after dropping March to interact. You should be able to interact with NPCs while March is active - that will be fixed soon - but freeps similarly have to dismount in deep water or to collect logs and troll-stone.

Mobilise works in-combat, so it's a tool for increasing the speed of you and your allies while in-combat/where March is unavailable.

[Vilan]

Gary and his friends will return. There are plans to have them tear free of the Ettendeep.

Sounds fun, thanks!

Can we also have the loot from the Tokens of Valor chests in GV bumped up to level 140? It's still stuck at level 105 loot. Useless other than the comms.

[CarenC]

There's no cooldown on March, so I'm not sure why you're suggesting you need to wait 60 seconds after dropping March to interact. You should be able to interact with NPCs while March is active - that will be fixed soon - but freeps similarly have to dismount in deep water or to collect logs and troll-stone.

Mobilise works in-combat, so it's a tool for increasing the speed of you and your allies while in-combat/where March is unavailable.

I just logged off creep..had to turn off Mobilze to get trollstone and then had to wait to turn it back on. If you suggest that there isn't a CD, then I would suggest you log on a creep and try it

[OnnMacMahal]

I just logged off creep..had to turn off Mobilze to get trollstone and then had to wait to turn it back on. If you suggest that there isn't a CD, then I would suggest you log on a creep and try it

March! is a skill which is available to every creep, has no cooldown, and gives you a personal 65% speed boost. It is now roughly equivalent to a freep mount, in function if not in form.


Mobilise is a Warleader skill which only gives +20% movement speed for 10 seconds, and has a 1 minute cooldown. It can be used in places where March! is disallowed (like keeps) and in combat. It affects you and allies in your group.


You should be using March! to quickly move around the map, and though you have to cancel it to collect troll-stone, it can be immediately reenabled. If a freep wants to collect troll-stone, they also have to dismount, collect, then re-mount. You shouldn't be trying to use Mobilise as a passive, out-of-combat speed buff, as it is entirely inferior to March! in that circumstance.

[Areyekuwe]

I just logged off creep..had to turn off Mobilze to get trollstone and then had to wait to turn it back on. If you suggest that there isn't a CD, then I would suggest you log on a creep and try it

March! is a skill which is available to every creep, has no cooldown, and gives you a personal 65% speed boost. It is now roughly equivalent to a freep mount, in function if not in form.


Mobilise is a Warleader skill which only gives +20% movement speed for 10 seconds, and has a 1 minute cooldown. It can be used in places where March! is disallowed (like keeps) and in combat. It affects you and allies in your group.


You should be using March! to quickly move around the map, and though you have to cancel it to collect troll-stone, it can be immediately reenabled. If a freep wants to collect troll-stone, they also have to dismount, collect, then re-mount. You shouldn't be trying to use Mobilise as a passive, out-of-combat speed buff, as it is entirely inferior to March! in that circumstance.

Just can not resist. I know, say bad things to me now. But Caren talking to the manager?! And yes manager is managing rather well.

These changes are a hot topic. For sure.

Please consider also giving us a slow boostable ran speed (not a mount) during which we could use attacks and use heals and all. Movement in the game is a big thing. Essentially New March (Mount) should be new skill in adition to base move rate (Walk?) and Old slow March. -This is the way it should have gotten implemented. But managers are famous for the fact that you have to call them over. They are all too often busy.

At this point making old march available along side of this invisible horse(which needs to be taimed a bit too) looks like the only way forward.

[CarenC]

Ok So I relogged back on.. I see the issue now. You actually have to STOP to put it back on. You also have to take March off to do any group buffs on such as imposing presence, use pots or food and then put it back on...So technically March is just that. No skills even buffs can be used. Mobilize is still IMO junk and a useless skill. All these changes may have been right in these eyes of managers, but now have them come to moors and play to see how they have created a mess for the causal players. There was no need for these changes when all that needed to be done was to fix the already broken stuff. Instead, they decided to break the game more. Well all I can say is have fun with this. Like I said previously, I am done with this until they smooth out the mess they created.

[Whohaz_Duhrang]

The Devs And Their Stream Team Are So Involved With Their Own Circle, I Really Dont Think It’s Possible To Find Any Actual Players Of The Game Amongst Them., Visit Any While Streaming And It’s Just Like *sigh*…. Idk., I Dont Have The Words To Paint A Visualization., But It’s Like Taking A Video Of Someone, That Knows Your Taking A Video Of Them., It’s Just Not Genuine., Maybe It’ll Change., But Since It’s Been Like This For A Few Years Now., I Do Doubt It. Pray For More

[Rockalonga]

Lead system designer....ROFL

[Ameranth]

Lead system designer....ROFL

Lead as in the metal, not lead as in foremost.

[Bofur_Magnavox]

There's no cooldown on March, so I'm not sure why you're suggesting you need to wait 60 seconds after dropping March to interact. You should be able to interact with NPCs while March is active - that will be fixed soon - but freeps similarly have to dismount in deep water or to collect logs and troll-stone.

Mobilise works in-combat, so it's a tool for increasing the speed of you and your allies while in-combat/where March is unavailable.

Not only do you need to deactivate March to collect items, you have to deactivate it to eat, buff, pretty much anything. Can freeps eat or use skills on their horses? They can't use steeds in keeps, but do their normal run buffs work?

I appreciate the efforts to improve things in the Moors, just know that this bugbear of a roll-out is not having a positive effect on gameplay. Going from 'no changes to maps' to consecutive map nerfs and then this change to March is not going to get more players out in the Moors.

It is *dead* out here.

[upat12am]

A couple points to clarify about March, as of today's patch.


The skill tooltip says 32% (this is a bug) but the actual movement speed is 65%. This is faster than 'normal' 62% freep horses, and slower than 'better' 68% freep horses.
The 65% movement speed will not stack with other movement speed bonuses.

It requires you to stand still for a .75s induction, significantly shorter than freep mount inductions.

The skill will be broken by swimming, entering keeps, or being interrupted by an enemy, but will not be broken by entering combat.

You cannot use skills while Marching. Using an immediate skill will cancel March (using the immediate skill) but you can also queue a skill and then click March to turn it off, immediately firing the queued skill.

At the moment, you can't interact with NPCs or objects while Marching. This will be fixed soon.

Try playing a WL with this BS. I trait to be able to play a banner in combat but not with March on, no purge heal, can't do sh*t with March on. But without March you run SLOWER than ever before so you are freep bait. You can't try and get away from zerging freeps because you can either run (and I'd rather fight), or you can heal and use other skills and move so slowly it doesn't matter, because the mob catches you. Oh and now purge not working again. Way to go. Let screw up all the creep skills, but not address the lag. Which was the ONLY real issue after the update of a couple of months ago. Good job. *slow clap*

[Neinda]

Small suggestion to SSG. Maybe before you implement more fixes to fix the fixes put them on a beta. A real beta that asks for input and considers what the player base is saying to you. Sometimes we are all guilty of being sure we know what the other person is really asking us to do. In reality, many of those times we are jumping ahead and "assuming" we know better and just placing our ideas and answers on the person. It wouldn't hurt to take a step back and run a beta with changes that are not set in stone but changes that are being tested for feedback and input. The Moors could use it right now. Please test things and listen to the input during the testing period. Please test things before they are set in stone. All of these little fixes and tweaks are causing the need for more fixes and tweaks. I truly don't believe you have that much time to devote to fixing things every week. Give yourself a break and let the player base test and provide feedback. There is nothing that says beta need to be a maximum of three tries. There is no need to have the changes set in stone before player feedback. There are many people here who have experience and understand the Moors both on large and small servers. They can share their different perspectives with you if given the opportunity.

[Canarne]

Try playing a WL with this BS. I trait to be able to play a banner in combat but not with March on, no purge heal, can't do sh*t with March on. But without March you run SLOWER than ever before so you are freep bait. You can't try and get away from zerging freeps because you can either run (and I'd rather fight), or you can heal and use other skills and move so slowly it doesn't matter, because the mob catches you. Oh and now purge not working again. Way to go. Let screw up all the creep skills, but not address the lag. Which was the ONLY real issue after the update of a couple of months ago. Good job. *slow clap*

Do not use March then. It is simply decision. You should change your habbits.

But if we started to move in this way we should kindly ask our Devs to improve some freep skills.
For example hunters Find the Path
THIS SHOULD BE WITH INDUCTION TOO and WITH tabu to use skills.
I hope i should not explain why.

As I see peoples are offering to make "running" skill for us. I am huge supporting it because freeps have so many running skill that if we are not using "creep-mount" we become easy food for freeps. But we cant use march because we become then food too. LOL.
So... how i see it:
1) usuall walk with 100% (+class bonuses of spiders/wargs)
2) running skill out of combat "march" like it was before (32%?)
3) charging skills of some classes (reaver, stalker)
4) group WL buff +25% (?) in combat for 20 (?) second like captains (not 20% dont be fools)
4) mounting-like skill with (68%!!!!! because only rednecks use mount with 62% all freeps ride 68%!) induction and etc how you wanted

Somthing like ^ this ^ would be fair play

[Canarne]

Small suggestion to SSG. Maybe before you implement more fixes to fix the fixes put them on a beta. A real beta that asks for input and considers what the player base is saying to you. Sometimes we are all guilty of being sure we know what the other person is really asking us to do. In reality, many of those times we are jumping ahead and "assuming" we know better and just placing our ideas and answers on the person. It wouldn't hurt to take a step back and run a beta with changes that are not set in stone but changes that are being tested for feedback and input. The Moors could use it right now. Please test things and listen to the input during the testing period. Please test things before they are set in stone. All of these little fixes and tweaks are causing the need for more fixes and tweaks. I truly don't believe you have that much time to devote to fixing things every week. Give yourself a break and let the player base test and provide feedback. There is nothing that says beta need to be a maximum of three tries. There is no need to have the changes set in stone before player feedback. There are many people here who have experience and understand the Moors both on large and small servers. They can share their different perspectives with you if given the opportunity.

Nice post. I can't give it a like. If I would try to so polite comment devs work it would become hate speech. I am not so restrained.