A Look at LOTRO's 2023

[k40rne]

I agree, if the backstory doesn't really have you doing "Corsair" things, and it's framed more like a Stout-axe was (or maybe even outright the same way, there are slavers in Umbar, maybe we might be a former slave). It's just that so many people are really convinced it'll be an outright Corsair with a change of heart, so there is that

I never said a Corsair with a change of heart, It's just I think their history is much more complex than people are anticipating. So Swashbuckler works although its so Gilbert & Sullivanesque.

[k40rne]

So, corsairs, by definition, make their living on ships. I see a lot of people convinced that the new class is going to be a corsair. How do you envision this class functioning for levels 1-140?

Many games have that class type. So it'd be similar to those, I think Jajax had proprietary skills too, didn't he? So there's already a base model we know of for it.

Not like there was supposed to be more than a few Beornings either & that class clearly exists now & Brawlers are mostly based on a monk class from what I can tell, although I haven't got my Brawler beyond level 35 or so, (I had a long break).

[TesalionLortus]

I never said a Corsair with a change of heart, It's just I think their history is much more complex than people are anticipating. So Swashbuckler works although its so Gilbert & Sullivanesque.

Well, never said that was you who said that. But a lot of people act like it, though not even a Corsair called a Corsair and truly with a change of heart would feel OK parading before Elrond and be referred to as a Corsair. Something else and not as outright pirate'y could work.

[CloudCastle]

Many games have that class type. So it'd be similar to those, I think Jajax had proprietary skills too, didn't he? So there's already a base model we know of for it.

How does it work in other games? I've never played a game with a pirate type class before.

[k40rne]

How does it work in other games? I've never played a game with a pirate type class before.

It would follow the patterns of a rogue type - so Burglar & Corsair would both be sub categories of the Rogue archetype, but no idea how SSG will make it their own iteration.

It would be a basic melee class with a medium sword/cutlass/sabre to start with I'd imagine

[k40rne]

Well, never said that was you who said that. But a lot of people act like it, though not even a Corsair called a Corsair and truly with a change of heart would feel OK parading before Elrond and be referred to as a Corsair. Something else and not as outright pirate'y could work.

You think Elrond would not understand complexity? especially in a world shifting away from his elf kin's hegemony. He's been around millennia, he's had to have been in similar company aplenty. Elves fought kinslayer wars themselves. I'm sure they could do some kind of neutral type, just as they did with the stout axe.

But to be sure - we shouldn't have a million adventurers traipsing through Rivendell at all - with it's hidden Vale status, but Elrond seems to be cool with this - I'm sure he could tolerate a few thousand Corsairs who are trying to ally themselves with him.

But you should be happy that SSG are seriously considering implementing personal watercraft now. This is much bigger news. I would love to hear how players anticipate this would look like.

[Daniyel]

Not entirely sure what "breaking apart vocations" means, can we for example only be tailor or metalsmith per character now?

AFAIK Breaking apart Vocations means not having Weponsmith tied to armsan and Historian for example,
or Cook not tied to Tinker + Yeoman,etc.

[TesalionLortus]

You think Elrond would not understand complexity? especially in a world shifting away from his elf kin's hegemony. He's been around millennia, he's had to have been in similar company aplenty. Elves fought kinslayer wars themselves. I'm sure they could do some kind of neutral type, just as they did with the stout axe.

But to be sure - we shouldn't have a million adventurers traipsing through Rivendell at all - with it's hidden Vale status, but Elrond seems to be cool with this - I'm sure he could tolerate a few thousand Corsairs who are trying to ally themselves with him.

But you should be happy that SSG are seriously considering implementing personal watercraft now. This is much bigger news. I would love to hear how players anticipate this would look like.

I mean more like he shouldn't really refer to them as a Corsair, in that case, because both the PC and Elrond might find it a bit improper, to put it lightly. But in a larger narrative, if he was being named a Corsair, he wouldn't probably enter that valley, realistically. Some elves may not be as wise and trustful, but before you reach Rivendell, there would be dwarves and men, and they can be even less. A "Corsair" parading around is not a good idea. :P Someone might panic, or, realistically, they would be approached by someone like Bill Ferny with some tasks for them rather than a ranger of the North

DAMN YESSSS, booooats. Hmm, I think there won't be any combat associated or anything. They'll probably just focus on its world design function and the cosmetic part of it, as in you need boat to reach certain places on water or some hidden corners and beaches accessible only from seas. Well, at least I hope so, that's like plenty of opportunities! Also, quests. So, go do some scouting, objectives on waters, even on open seas. Lone ships reachable from a sea, like in modern Assassin's Creed - either static or in movement, and when you reach them there is a ladder and can get on board and trash some mobs. I think it'll be just a little boat (so perfectly usable on rivers too), though I would very much love it if it had a sail... so you know, cosmetics... and LOTRO's banners, both design and animation when in movement are very nice, so would be great if all of these great arts could be turned into sail cosmetics someday

[k40rne]

I mean more like he shouldn't really refer to them as a Corsair, in that case, because both the PC and Elrond might find it a bit improper, to put it lightly. But in a larger narrative, if he was being named a Corsair, he wouldn't probably enter that valley, realistically. Some elves may not be as wise and trustful, but before you reach Rivendell, there would be dwarves and men, and they can be even less. A "Corsair" parading around is not a good idea. :P Someone might panic, or, realistically, they would be approached by someone like Bill Ferny with some tasks for them rather than a ranger of the North

Yeah, so use a different term for it, hell we can call them Thorongil's Mariners, if it makes the inhabitants around Rivendell happy.

DAMN YESSSS, booooats. Hmm, I think there won't be any combat associated or anything. They'll probably just focus on its world design function and the cosmetic part of it, as in you need boat to reach certain places on water or some hidden corners and beaches accessible only from seas. Well, at least I hope so, that's like plenty of opportunities! Also, quests. So, go do some scouting, objectives on waters, even on open seas. Lone ships reachable from a sea, like in modern Assassin's Creed - either static or in movement, and when you reach them there is a ladder and can get on board and trash some mobs. I think it'll be just a little boat (so perfectly usable on rivers too), though I would very much love it if it had a sail... so you know, cosmetics... and LOTRO's banners, both design and animation when in movement are very nice, so would be great if all of these great arts could be turned into sail cosmetics someday

Yeah, it could certainly have progress added whatever they decide, but i'm sure will start out a small boat at first, to traverse rivers and inner coastal waters, a bit like the reach & design of a jet ski. I think they could add ship combat later & it could be done similar to the mounted type, certainly not like Assassin's Creed Odyssey naval combat.(far too complex with the roiling seas & massive eddys etc).

[Bromlin]

It's rather silly to discuss the lore-friendliness of a class that isn't even officially confirmed. We have no idea what the new class will be, what it will be called, what game mechanics it will have. We can only guess. Yet you discuss the name "corsair" over 2 or 3 forum pages. Maybe there will be an alchemist class, or an astronomer/astrologer class, a hermit, a crafter, a ranger, a sage, or whatever. Maybe even a corsair or swashbuckler. There are a couple of classes in the game which are quite unique and rather uncommon, such as rune-keeper, lore-master, brawler, minstrel and warden. Odds are the new class will be as well. One could guess it won't be a pure melee class again, because we got brawler recently. But we don't know yet. So what's this all about, a discussion for the sake of discussing?

[Sid'heru]

2023 roadmap excludes the most important change needed to ensure playable PVMP: the disabling of Target Forwarding in the Ettenmoors only.


HTF (heal target forwarding) will continue to be a plague on the game for years to come if this is not addressed. the fact that it is not on the roadmap despite the overwhelming show of support for its removal in PVMP settings only shows that the genuine concerns of the community are second fiddle to other less impactful changes and personal whims.

Good lord! Please go away with your nonsense. Give it a rest already. You play about twice a month in the Moors, yet you keep trying to force your narrative on everyone else.who plays on a consistent basis. Get a new hobby for Sauron's sake.

[wxxwqxsjvu]

I had to make an account just to comment this ridiculous roadmap:
- Not a single word about abysmal server performance since countless years, but look, more of the same content for those player who still stick around playing on "quality" servers
- Not a single word about a UI rework, despite the current UI being subpar at 1080p and completely unusable at 1440p or higher resolutions, but look, more of the same content

The priorities are self-evident: regurgitation of the same content while hoping said content stems the tide of people leaving due to the utterly abysmal state of especially servers and UI among other core issues, that have been known for countless years.

[Elmagor]

I had to make an account just to comment this ridiculous roadmap:
- Not a single word about abysmal server performance since countless years, but look, more of the same content for those player who still stick around playing on "quality" servers
- Not a single word about a UI rework, despite the current UI being subpar at 1080p and completely unusable at 1440p or higher resolutions, but look, more of the same content

The priorities are self-evident: regurgitation of the same content while hoping said content stems the tide of people leaving due to the utterly abysmal state of especially servers and UI among other core issues, that have been known for countless years.

This is CONTENT road map, created by lead content designer.

They don't have any road map with significant dates about lag work, because they have many factors and ongoing lag reduce work right in the middle.

In Cord of the Rings, Severlin already mention what they keep working on UI, and adjust game for higher resolutions. But it takes a lot of time too. First resoults we can see around anniversary-middle of 2023. They adjust text and maps for 4K monitors.

[maartena]

I had to make an account just to comment this ridiculous roadmap:
- Not a single word about abysmal server performance since countless years, but look, more of the same content for those player who still stick around playing on "quality" servers
- Not a single word about a UI rework, despite the current UI being subpar at 1080p and completely unusable at 1440p or higher resolutions, but look, more of the same content

The priorities are self-evident: regurgitation of the same content while hoping said content stems the tide of people leaving due to the utterly abysmal state of especially servers and UI among other core issues, that have been known for countless years.

This post is the ultimate proof that people should listen to +Cord of the Rings before making comments on the forum. (You don't even have to WATCH it, I often just treat it as a podcast while working, the audio is more than enough in most cases).

Severlin explained what they have been doing for lag (not in great detail but some), and that work is planned throughout the year. That work will continue through 2023 and likely into 2024. He explained some of the issues are simply related to the massive amounts of landscape combine with massive amounts of quests, and that back in 2007 they never expected for the game to become THIS large and that they are dealing with that now. One of the things they are working on is a 64-bit server, but at their first attempt and test they found it wasn't playing well with some other components, and they are working to re-develop that, which takes time.

4k UI was also addressed by Severlin, as well as River Hobbits, and housing - all of which are NOT in the letter but tentatively slated for summer 2023 (housing) and winter 2023 (river hobbits), with a chance it may be moved to later if they need more time for other projects. They did not put those on on purpose, as they basically might be axed if they run out of time. Graphics update work is on-going though. We're not going to see an engine replacement (I believe anyways) but we will see zones rebuilt with modern tech, such as new biomes.

Want to actually be in the know? Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht8pSSSDugY - There is a lot more info in there than what is written in the letter.

(If you have no audio or are bad of hearing, the auto-generated closed captioning is 99% correct, it only fails on Tolkien names and abbreviations specific to the game.)

[wxxwqxsjvu]

This is CONTENT road map, created by lead content designer.

They don't have any road map with significant dates about lag work, because they have many factors and ongoing lag reduce work right in the middle.

In Cord of the Rings, Severlin already mention what they keep working on UI, and adjust game for higher resolutions. But it takes a lot of time too. First resoults we can see around anniversary-middle of 2023. They adjust text and maps for 4K monitors.

Or phrased another way:
- The main pain points players have, since countless years, are met with, at best, SSG's default NPC responses of e.g. "We're working on it" or "We did "improvements"", if not straight up graveyard silence as the default M.O., but
- SSG can somehow lay out a whole year of content in a rough roadmap with lightspeed and actual depth

Weird, huh?

[wxxwqxsjvu]

This post is the ultimate proof that people should listen to +Cord of the Rings before making comments on the forum. (You don't even have to WATCH it, I often just treat it as a podcast while working, the audio is more than enough in most cases).

Severlin explained what they have been doing for lag (not in great detail but some), and that work is planned throughout the year. That work will continue through 2023 and likely into 2024. He explained some of the issues are simply related to the massive amounts of landscape combine with massive amounts of quests, and that back in 2007 they never expected for the game to become THIS large and that they are dealing with that now. One of the things they are working on is a 64-bit server, but at their first attempt and test they found it wasn't playing well with some other components, and they are working to re-develop that, which takes time.

4k UI was also addressed by Severlin, as well as River Hobbits, and housing - all of which are NOT in the letter but tentatively slated for summer 2023 (housing) and winter 2023 (river hobbits), with a chance it may be moved to later if they need more time for other projects. They did not put those on on purpose, as they basically might be axed if they run out of time. Graphics update work is on-going though. We're not going to see an engine replacement (I believe anyways) but we will see zones rebuilt with modern tech, such as new biomes.

Want to actually be in the know? Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht8pSSSDugY - There is a lot more info in there than what is written in the letter.

(If you have no audio or are bad of hearing, the auto-generated closed captioning is 99% correct, it only fails on Tolkien names and abbreviations specific to the game.)

- An end-user has to consult various sources because SSG can't be bothered to keep all the information on their forum? Good to know
- You mean the same "work" they "did" last year, or rather "improvements" to fix the abysmal server lag, that didn't do anything?
- You prove the points of my previous post:
-- Doing something about the lag: in 2023 or 2024 = SSG doesn't consider it a high-priority issue, which is utterly ridiculous for a MMORPG as the end-user can play far better games in the same market, but obviously not based on the LotR IP
-- Doing something about the UI stuck in the 2000s: only mentioned in passing on a stream = SSG's target resolution is apparently only 1080p, because what crazy end-user would play video games on higher resolutions than that?

I already left Lotro years ago, but still wanted to play through the epic books once more, but I guess I have to wait until 2025 or later to have a 0.001% chance to have an actual scaling UI with half-decent servers, assuming the game is even alive at that point.

[Elmagor]

Or phrased another way:
- The main pain points players have, since countless years, are met with, at best, SSG's default NPC responses of e.g. "We're working on it" or "We did "improvements"", if not straight up graveyard silence as the default M.O., but
- SSG can somehow lay out a whole year of content in a rough roadmap with lightspeed and actual depth

Weird, huh?

You must understand what during 2008-2017 Turbine done almost nothing to fix lag problems, or improve UI. They start working on it only after they buy game from Turbine, or even after they get money from EG7. So we have game with a lot of dead weight, and Sev confirms what ANY work on something old takes unpredictable amount of time and always slower when any new content

I can use only my experience, when everyone complain about lags in last year (when they work with datebase) I have ~15-20% loss. And when everyone around me have lags, I have them too. After u34, I rarely have any losses, and when people around me have lags, I have them too a little, but don't have any loss. So they done something, and that working better, at least for me.

[WeirdJedi]

Or phrased another way:
- The main pain points players have, since countless years, are met with, at best, SSG's default NPC responses of e.g. "We're working on it" or "We did "improvements"", if not straight up graveyard silence as the default M.O., but
- SSG can somehow lay out a whole year of content in a rough roadmap with lightspeed and actual depth

Weird, huh?

Did someone call for me?

You can always consult my notes of the stream here: https://forums.lotro.com/forums/show...88#post8173188

As stated there, they don't put everything on the roadmap unless they know for sure the team will be working on it. They expanded on the other things people were curious about in their weekly streams. And while they definitely explained a lot, one hour was still not enough time to answer everything. That's why Developer Diaries and Bullroarer will soon be showing off captain changes, warden changes, crafting changes, pvmp changes, and the Instance Cluster. They are reaching the end of Phase #2 of their performance changes and heading into Phase #3. They explained several times how technical complications have made them retract certain changes and why only certain people might feel like the game is getting worse. They put in tons of hours last year already doing what they can to work with the code that no one bothered changing all these years - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x_c7tgO3zI&t=1100s. I was going to list all the changes, but I guess knowing about what they did doesn't really interest you at this point.

[Pharone]

We are also planning to begin a revision to the crafting system that will continue throughout the year. Our expressed end goal includes breaking apart vocations to allow players to choose which profession they want to learn, providing crafters with the ability to make some best in slot or equally competitive items through their professions, expanding upon existing crafting systems that may have been overlooked for a long time (I’m looking at you, essences) and expanding the system for the future.

Can you elaborate some on the crafting revision please?

1. Are we looking at the breaking apart of the vocations as something coming in Q1 and elaborating on it through out the year, or should we expect that we will not be choosing our professions until sometime near the end of the year?
2. Will we be limited to 3 crafting professions to choose or will it be increased?
3. Are there any restrictions on which professions we can choose? For example: only 1 harvesting profession (prospecting/foresting/farming) and up to 2 crafting professions per character (jewelry/armor/weaponsmith/etc)
4. Will our existing professions be automatically switched to the new system?
5. Will we have to start over all 3 professions if we choose 2 of the ones we had before and 1 of one we didn't have before?
6. Will there be NEW professions that didn't exist before?

Anything you can add would be great.

Thanks.

[WeirdJedi]

Anything you can add would be great. Thanks.

I can help point you the way so you can hear what they said. I made this handy list:

From the roadmap - https://www.lotro.com/news/lotro-letter-2023-en

Revision of crafting system throughout the year.
Break apart vocations
Ability to make some best in slot or equally competitive items
Expanding on existing crafting systems like essences
Work toward providing a new set of cyclical events that revolve around the different crafting professions.

From the stream - https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1713106310

Mix-and-Match Crafting (5:00) "Just be a gatherer... just have crafting on someone"
Developer Diary & Bullroarer soon (5:30) "not next week"
Support for those with existing crafting (29:00)
System might only allow three professions (29:30) "breaking apart and pick one... but not allow more than three but we can look into it"

From this thread - https://forums.lotro.com/forums/show...t=#post8173111

Will not extend pre-Mordor to start with
Will not require you to raid for materials to make top-end gear

[The_traveller]

A Look at LOTRO’s 2023

Thank you for your intriguing story!

But I have some questions for now.

The Return to Carn Dûm features a new end game instance cluster with two 3-player instances, a 6-player instance, a new raid, and all of the spoils and rewards that you expect to find in a new space.

Do you have any plans to return to the scaling of instances in the near future? Part of that work has already been done earlier, but a number of instances remain and there are many who would like to pass them at any level.
New instances - that's great! But why don't bring the old non-scaled instances to the modern scaling system?
Does the addition of new Carn Dûm instances mean that the old Carn Dûm will be forever available only at level 50?

From a game systems side, we will continue to work on targeted class updates, crafting changes, monster play updates, and further adjustments to combat statistics as we move forward to the expansion, new festival rewards for Midsummer, and much more.

It seems there is one important system that for some reason is forgotten about. Legendary items. Some time ago you've made good upgrade. But there are two things left, which for some reason have not yet been done:
1) a convenient interface for LI management
2) unused relics and shards
Is there any plans to finish this system to bring it to the final lovely and convenient look?
Will it be possible to exchange relics and shards for at least something useful in the game? At least some little things. People spent a lot of time and effort to get them, but so far we have not yet been offered any solution in return for this.

released the Before the Shadow mini-expansion, which introduced a new starter area to the game

This decision was very pleased to me - to make a new prologue. And Before the Shadow turned out wonderful!
So how about to finally make individual prologues for each race? Hobbits and elves are waiting in the wings from the moment when game is launched. If you have ideas in this direction?


Thanks for your work and for the answers (if you pay attention to my post).

[SSG_Orion]

Do you have any plans to return to the scaling of instances in the near future? Part of that work has already been done earlier, but a number of instances remain and there are many who would like to pass them at any level. New instances - that's great! But why don't bring the old non-scaled instances to the modern scaling system? Does the addition of new Carn Dûm instances mean that the old Carn Dûm will be forever available only at level 50?

Near future, no. In the future, potentially. It is a matter of time before we upgrade the older instances. There are other aspects to every update - it is never as simple as "Just update this to scale." So, no timeline, but we do want to continue extending the scaling back through earlier instances. Old Carn Dûm instances would be on the list of potential updates.

ûmIt seems there is one important system that for some reason is forgotten about. Legendary items. Some time ago you've made good upgrade. But there are two things left, which for some reason have not yet been done:
1) a convenient interface for LI management
2) unused relics and shards
Is there any plans to finish this system to bring it to the final lovely and convenient look?
Will it be possible to exchange relics and shards for at least something useful in the game? At least some little things. People spent a lot of time and effort to get them, but so far we have not yet been offered any solution in return for this.[/quote]

LI updates will continue - as Severlin stated in his stream with Cordovan last week - not everything is outlined in the roadmap.

ûmThanks for your work and for the answers (if you pay attention to my post).[/QUOTE]

You are most welcome.

[WeirdJedi]

Do you have any plans to return to the scaling of instances in the near future? Part of that work has already been done earlier, but a number of instances remain and there are many who would like to pass them at any level. New instances - that's great! But why don't bring the old non-scaled instances to the modern scaling system? Does the addition of new Carn Dûm instances mean that the old Carn Dûm will be forever available only at level 50?

Severlin also mentioned in his stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht8pSSSDugY&t=47m

Maddenly expensive because people had different methods in implementing old instances. It would create more work to touch them than it is to create new ones.

[JTollers]

I guess I'd ask the reverse question. Is it possible or more simple to level cap everything to 50 or 60 and fix it all. Scale down and do horizontal progression? Endless leveling is its own thing for sure.

[maartena]

Near future, no. In the future, potentially. It is a matter of time before we upgrade the older instances. There are other aspects to every update - it is never as simple as "Just update this to scale." So, no timeline, but we do want to continue extending the scaling back through earlier instances. Old Carn Dûm instances would be on the list of potential updates.

Instead of scaling UP the instances (or make them scalable at all), why not come up with a system that allows the PLAYER to scale DOWN to an instance.

So, if you are level 150 or so, and you want to do a level 50 instance in Angmar, the fellowship leader can launch the instance in "On-Level mode" or whatever more creative name you want to give it, and upon entering the instance, everyone higher than level 50 will be scaled DOWN to level 50, but anyone of lower level will remain that level, so a level 48, 49 can easily participate but a level 35.... not just yet.

Armor, weapons, etc will all scale down to level 50, and you run the instance as if you were a level 50, more or less.....

Chest rewards that you can roll for can be presented as a token instead of an actual armor piece, and if you WIN the token, once you exit the instance you can exchange it for a level-appropriate piece of armor from a vendor in most hubs. The armor would scale all the way up to whatever the current level cap is, and would be on-par with T1 style armor. So whether you are level 79, level 103, level 129 or level 150..... if you completed the instance at level 50, and at level 50 appropriate difficulty, you get a token (or more accurately, can WIN a token) you can exchange for something that matches your level.

The technology to scale down already exists, somewhat, by scaling down to level 100 in epic battles..... If that can be adjusted so it can also be used to levels of instances that are fixed in level, such as those for Angmar (50), Moria (56, 58), Lothlorien (60), Isengard (75), and some of the later raids at 105, 115, 120, 130, 140.....

Basically instead of scaling the instances, scale the player but allow the player to receive rewards for their actual level.