Potential PvMP Updates - U35 & Beyond

[Oldwiley]

An interesting read.

Communicating thoughts in this way is what we have raised together on this forum and Kudos for taking that on board, its noted and appreciated.

My only concern arising from what i see is anything that resembles the old back door hokey kokey as that was the worst mechanic ever to be brought to the moors.

I mean its tricky, but any situation where we create a jump inside in combat, jump outside in combat scenario with defenders using (abusing) this mechanic is depressing to even think of.

Hard to see how else it can be done if you are closing the main gate and people still need to get inside and outside;

or are you suggesting that folks can leave, but to get back in they have to have the npc out of combat? That would make it hard for strays to get into the keep when its under attack, but would prevent the old back door horror we came to hate so much.

[Elmagor]

2.nerf the tank mode , they can go in and out from 10+creeps,and all npcs in tower

2. With that mechanic, tank can't breake gates alone and can't pull all NPC

[SSG_Orion]

Any changes in Osgiliath?

Osgiliath is still in a holding pattern.

[SSG_Orion]

Any plans adding more ranks ? its just a grind and probably easy to make . or add titles or a new system of grind. Most players are already high ranks .
What about the lag ?

Currently no plans to increase ranks. There are reasons.

I made it pretty clear in the OP that I am not commenting on lag as our engineers are making efforts and strides there.

[SSG_Orion]

1. add something for r15 ppl to chase.

Not necessarily something to chase at rank 15, as it is meant more as a way to augment your characters but, allegiances would be a new mechanic and path to improve your monster play characters and we believe by feeding the beast that is the normal paths of PvE and maybe some specific PvMP aspects to work toward we can satisfy most player reasons for coming out to the Ettenmoors. I di not mention the allegiances in the primer as I have discussed them before and the next time I talk about them I want to provide the outlines for every available clan.

2.creepside Consumables Duration can be stack like store buffs

All of the durations, efficacies, and cooldowns will be looked at when we start to adjust the consumables in the Ettenmoors.

3.add key drops in the moor or add some rare things in the lootbox.and redeuce lootbox Drop rate

Adding key drops is not likely.

4.moors quests gives destiny points,and not VIP useable only.

The funny thing here is that all quests in the ettenmoors used to give destiny points. In fact, it was the primary way to get destiny long before we went free. I am afraid that destiny will not be making a return here.

5. redeuce moorquest iten Drop rate,and can be turn in more times to strengthen towers

Covered in the primer.

6.all moors items stack 500,like suntouchedeagle feather

Though it is not mentioned on the primer, there is a desire to make carry-alls specifically for the Ettenmoors items.

7. more traits slots in creepside, especially corruption slots to Increase diversity

Covered in the discussion in the Where do we go from here... thread but I will reiterate here:

Blessings, currently restore a good portion of the statistics that were removed from corruptions. By carefully choosing your blessing you will be able to return to the roughly the same statistics you had before the shift. We are working toward making the blessing into a new corruption type: Clan Allegiance, that will be slottable on your character and will have the ability to expand and get augmented with other clan perks along the advancement path. The timeline for delivery is not yet determined. Engineers are busy with other requirements at present.

8.track items less cooldown,and not distinguish race

Some things will likely change with this given the future direction of the consumables and how we plan to implement some aspects of the perks associated with the allegiance. And yes, this would work for the player side too.

9.phial of akulhuns fury can be use in-combat or it will be useless

See comments on changes to consumables.

10. hide the blessing buff, if u show it to freeps ,glass blessing will be useless.

There are some "difficulties" with this that will be alleviated once we get the more permanent corruption solution to the blessings.

ty very much
-

You are welcome, very much.

[SSG_Orion]

1.remove the part of crowd control duration in audacity.

No plans to adjust this portion of Audacity.

2.nerf the tank mode , they can go in and out from 10+creeps,and all npcs in tower

Tanks are supposed to survive longer. They trade that survivability by being crappier damage dealers.

[SSG_Orion]

Communicating thoughts in this way is what we have raised together on this forum and Kudos for taking that on board, its noted and appreciated.

It may come as a surprise, but interacting with players and fans is one of my favorite aspects of the job. Positive or negative, there is always something that can be gleaned. I appreciate the back and forth immensely.

My only concern arising from what i see is anything that resembles the old back door hokey kokey as that was the worst mechanic ever to be brought to the moors.

I mean its tricky, but any situation where we create a jump inside in combat, jump outside in combat scenario with defenders using (abusing) this mechanic is depressing to even think of.

Hard to see how else it can be done if you are closing the main gate and people still need to get inside and outside;

or are you suggesting that folks can leave, but to get back in they have to have the npc out of combat? That would make it hard for strays to get into the keep when its under attack, but would prevent the old back door horror we came to hate so much.

As I suggested earlier in this thread, the NPC solution would negate the old back room stack counter assault, provided that the attackers are fighting on many fronts. If the NPC responsible is engaged or removed then stragglers would, indeed, be difficult for those late to the defense to get into the main defense.

It would, however, create opportunity for pincer strikes from within and without.

[Oldwiley]

It may come as a surprise, but interacting with players and fans is one of my favorite aspects of the job. Positive or negative, there is always something that can be gleaned. I appreciate the back and forth immensely.



As I suggested earlier in this thread, the NPC solution would negate the old back room stack counter assault, provided that the attackers are fighting on many fronts. If the NPC responsible is engaged or removed then stragglers would, indeed, be difficult for those late to the defense to get into the main defense.

It would, however, create opportunity for pincer strikes from within and without.

Thanks, a quick, clear and useful response. This level of engagement is superb. You lot might be back on my christmas card list at this rate ^.^

[TestOneOrTwo]

@SSG_ORION, Hi, what about Pvp/PvmP Arenas based on players lvl/rank?

[Deorwyn]

These suggestions are very intriguing, I am looking forward to seeing them take shape over the coming year.

One small change I am hoping for is to turn the map items on freepside (Map to Glân Vraig) into skills, so they stop taking up an inventory space.

[Daec]

Keep siege stuff sounds great. I think any concerns i have upfront about this have been addressed already, looking forward to more details.

For the roaming objectives, will these be announced or is it a "Go out and find it" type thing? I personally hope its the latter.

For incentives i overall like the idea. For freeps specifically will there be LI things/small mounts of xVP can that be bought with commendations? outside of upgraded consumables i can see the currency just stacking up again with no real use. Would be nice to have something to spend it on as far as character progression goes even if an enhancement rune is 1k comms or a teal tracery is 10k, or 50-100 xVP is several thousand comms, just something/anything.

[fabienkraft]

Hello

First of all, I want to apologise: my english is quite bad, but I hope you will understand my post.

From a PvMP enjoyer, thank you so much for taking in charge this part of the game. I am aware of the amont of work and technical difficulties you have to face off through this journey, and I support you with all my heart!

With this explained, here are my thoughs and my interrogations after reading this post:

-By "upgrading" the towers and keep, will we get better rewards taking them than the actual quest and buff?

-Do you have in mind the time to take back a fort entirely (in other words, how much time you've planed to allow defenders to assemble and organise a defense)?

-How exactly the game know if a fort is under attack or if the attack is pushed back?

-If the defenders already have a way with "secondary entrance" reflecting tunnels, why do you want to set up a guard who would let the player/monster player into the main building or main battle platform? In my opinion, fusing them into one is easier! I would love an explanation, because I'm sure it's just that I don't understand exactly how it would work ><

-About the ruins that will allow the defenders to build a siege weapon, and attackers to destroy the siege weapons (many siege weapons at the same place or many places to build some siege weapons?) present and call the Marshals out of the main battle area, will the ruins be rebuilded? What exactly are the Marchals that build a siege tower (a NPC, a player? It feel like it will be on battlefield so if it's an batalion of NPC charging the fort, it would be so cool! I feel like the siege weapon build wy these Marchals don't work like the ones you can buy with commendations)? Do you already know how will we access the "point" to cap exaclty?

-Do you think about making like a specialisation for the rams, like an aura for the battling ram that give hope or fear (the token of hope thing)? Maybe even an aura that mitigate damage taken by players? All of this would be in return of an attack or survavibility loss, of course.

-About the spawns of the depths of the Delving of Frór, can we think about them like the Roaming threats we can encounter in meny place across midle earth?

-What do you mean by "Bonus events will happen on a rotating schedule"? Do you have an example? Will the rotating schedule be important/steady between two events?

-If the isendeep mine became neutral, what about the teleportation points for the monster players? Do we have to speedrun the quests to get them before the update release?

-Do you plan to make a link between the towers and the central keep, like an offensive or a defensive one?

-I dont understand the incentives you work on: will it be like a battle pass or something? I don't think it is a good idea, freeps already have enough of that.

"New discoverable experiences will allow for players to find a new style of pet that they will shape and develop over time."
I can't wait to train my pokemon to become a fearsome beast that can kill Grodris for me x)
(First on the golden bidoof!)

"Other Ettendeep bosses will make their presence known throughout the course of the year until they are all available for discovery and defeating on the Ettenmoors landscape."
I hope you will make the wood camp a neutral place too with our favorite old tree, but I hope there will be no more neutral forts after this (the towers and keep are in my opinion a must have to fight for in the ettenmoors)

About the consumables, please make the tomes and other veteran buffs buyable with commendations: there are really cool buffs that everyone who farm a bunch could enjoy, not only VIP (fall damage immunity is my personnal favorite).
A really cool consumable would be a detection item, like the warg sense of prey


Well, that's a lot of words! I thank everyone who take the time to read evenything, and I bless those that will ansewer my questions and thoughs.
May the Vallars/Sauron overwatch these moors I love so much.

[hanswurst13]

Tanks are supposed to survive longer. They trade that survivability by being crappier damage dealers.

Please, Tanks can run simply into a Raid of Creeps and haress the Creeps and Run away.
When it´s a good player he will focus the healers, freep advantage.

I made it pretty clear in the OP that I am not commenting on lag as our engineers are making efforts and strides there.

Please, without addressing or fixing the lag all your changes will only work on the currently empty servers for small grps, that switch sides, and recapture for the points.
freep advanatage.

As I suggested earlier in this thread, the NPC solution would negate the old back room stack counter assault, provided that the attackers are fighting on many fronts. If the NPC responsible is engaged or removed then stragglers would, indeed, be difficult for those late to the defense to get into the main defense.

It would, however, create opportunity for pincer strikes from within and without.

Hallo, a freep Champion can summon his Party members into the fortress, a Freep Runeceeper can give a Respawn to any freep prior leaving the Keep- he will simply respawn back inside?
please stop.

What about the Range advantage of freeps ?!

i love the new changes but what you create here is freep heaven.


at least drop some items to creeps that can be used as a freep, so we all switch sides
and only the i...... stay playing MP (talking about my cousins) to feed the freeps.

[Vilan]

Have to agree that these ideas SOUND like a lot of fun... but I foresee an announcement of new cool rewards available in the Moors, a bunch of people logging in to check it out, finding themselves in Lagapalooza, and giving up. Not your fault Orion, but maybe do some baby steps. Maybe start with just adding doors and work up to siege weapons later on. Doors sound like a good idea because it would encourage getting those oil quests turned in if it means dumping a bunch of fire puddles on enemies who are stuck beating down a door and can't just zip out of the puddles.

Also I don't see any ideas geared towards spreading out the action. Adding siege weapons is going to concentrate people around the keeps. Possibly add an effect where taking an outpost gives a brief (5 min?) damage or defense buff to your side. That way taking a bunch of outposts during a keep assault would help push back against the Bad Guys, and you'd want to keep them defended until the assault is done so that the other side doesn't get their own buffs to throw you back. I dunno, just spitballing here.

Just curious how people are going to turn in Isendeep quests if Grodris is occupying the area. Are those quests going away, or will they get moved elsewhere?

I do hope your plans turn out great, Orion. We all want to see a Moors full of fresh victims. Best of luck!

[SSG_Orion]

-By "upgrading" the towers and keep, will we get better rewards taking them than the actual quest and buff?

We will revise the rewards for both attackers and defenders.

-Do you have in mind the time to take back a fort entirely (in other words, how much time you've planed to allow defenders to assemble and organise a defense)?

That will be dependent entirely on the attackers and defenders for taking the locations and then getting them back. That said, when the Captain-General or War-tyrant falls in defense, there will be an immediate purge of the defenders from the locale - to simulate that the location is lost and then the new controllers can go about building their defense.

-How exactly the game know if a fort is under attack or if the attack is pushed back?

We have a rather robust event system that allows us to track these sorts of things and when we make this update the intent will be to send an Ettenmoors-wide broadcast that an assault has begin at a location. Once the battle begins it will be up to the defenders and attackers to control the portions of the battle area that they deem are important.

-

If the defenders already have a way with "secondary entrance" reflecting tunnels, why do you want to set up a guard who would let the player/monster player into the main building or main battle platform? In my opinion, fusing them into one is easier! I would love an explanation, because I'm sure it's just that I don't understand exactly how it would work ><

The NPC is "the tunnel" they "guide" the player through - via teleport - to get them into the defense of the keep. By having an NPC handle this we stop the egregious behavior that existed in previous incarnations and create another battle point for smaller groups to fight for control.

-About the ruins that will allow the defenders to build a siege weapon, and attackers to destroy the siege weapons (many siege weapons at the same place or many places to build some siege weapons?) present and call the Marshals out of the main battle area, will the ruins be rebuilded? What exactly are the Marchals that build a siege tower (a NPC, a player? It feel like it will be on battlefield so if it's an batalion of NPC charging the fort, it would be so cool! I feel like the siege weapon build wy these Marchals don't work like the ones you can buy with commendations)? Do you already know how will we access the "point" to cap exaclty?

The ruins, I am referencing already exist. One siege item can be present and that is all. No, the ruins will not get rebuilt. Yes, the point will be a flag that needs to be taken placed within that ruin. There will be a set limit of siege weaponry that can be placed around the towers/keep.

-Do you think about making like a specialisation for the rams, like an aura for the battling ram that give hope or fear (the token of hope thing)? Maybe even an aura that mitigate damage taken by players? All of this would be in return of an attack or survavibility loss, of course.

Not in a first iteration, though there are some thoughts for this already percolating in my fevered little brain.

-About the spawns of the depths of the Delving of Frór, can we think about them like the Roaming threats we can encounter in meny place across midle earth?

You will only see the Ettendeeo monsters in the Ettenmoors.

-What do you mean by "Bonus events will happen on a rotating schedule"? Do you have an example? Will the rotating schedule be important/steady between two events?

Bonus commendation, infamy/renown events.

-If the isendeep mine became neutral, what about the teleportation points for the monster players? Do we have to speedrun the quests to get them before the update release?

Map teleports will change - when the time is right. No reason to sprint to get the maps.

-Do you plan to make a link between the towers and the central keep, like an offensive or a defensive one?

Not in iteration one, but there are some thoughts about changing up or adding to the function of or number of artifacts and their usage in the Ettenmoors.

-I dont understand the incentives you work on: will it be like a battle pass or something? I don't think it is a good idea, freeps already have enough of that.

I think I need to keep this one a little vague for the moment. The incentives for the monster player side are a little trickier than they are for the players.

"New discoverable experiences will allow for players to find a new style of pet that they will shape and develop over time."
I can't wait to train my pokemon to become a fearsome beast that can kill Grodris for me x)
(First on the golden bidoof!)

No. Nothing like pokemon...definitely not.

"Other Ettendeep bosses will make their presence known throughout the course of the year until they are all available for discovery and defeating on the Ettenmoors landscape."
I hope you will make the wood camp a neutral place too with our favorite old tree, but I hope there will be no more neutral forts after this (the towers and keep are in my opinion a must have to fight for in the ettenmoors)

We have no intention of making the Grimwood into a neutral location.

About the consumables, please make the tomes and other veteran buffs buyable with commendations: there are really cool buffs that everyone who farm a bunch could enjoy, not only VIP (fall damage immunity is my personnal favorite).
A really cool consumable would be a detection item, like the warg sense of prey

More to come, when we get to the point of revising these items.

[SSG_Orion]

Just curious how people are going to turn in Isendeep quests if Grodris is occupying the area. Are those quests going away, or will they get moved elsewhere?

The quests will rotate elsewhere for bestowal and turn in.

[aleczander]

Reminds me very much of ESO pvp mechanics. I miss that game.

It all sounds great, as others have said, so I want to make sure I say "thanks!!" to you, Orion, for the transparency and communication efforts.

Like others, my biggest concern is how much of these siege systems will work within the current framework of game systems whose functions heavily hinge on the presence/lack of lag. Ok, I'm done obsessing over the lag.

Now, to feedback: I like all of your ideas at face value, so I don't know how to critique without playtesting them? Anyway, I will say something about access that you didn't specifically bring up.

Are there any plans to reduce/mitigate (at least temporarily) the power differences between a brand-new creep and a veteran freep? Like some sort of mechanic that gives a temporary tiered buff to new creeps (to make them tougher) that wears off, tier by tier, until they reach some milestone, or something? Same sort of idea for freeps, I guess? I like the idea of a lvl 20 freep being auto-scaled to the Ettinmoors and being able to jump in without being immediately slaughtered. The current system presents the new players with a wall of grind to rank up, a discouraging amount of griefing deaths to suffer through, and a lot of quests dependent on full-raid takedowns of certain NPCs. Not saying scrap it, but it definitely needs to be augmented with many more quests/options for helping a creep rank up. You did say you guys are working on consumables and wrapper quests.

Last question: what is your best guess for the timeline on each of these improvements?

[SSG_Orion]

Are there any plans to reduce/mitigate (at least temporarily) the power differences between a brand-new creep and a veteran freep? Like some sort of mechanic that gives a temporary tiered buff to new creeps (to make them tougher) that wears off, tier by tier, until they reach some milestone, or something? Same sort of idea for freeps, I guess? I like the idea of a lvl 20 freep being auto-scaled to the Ettinmoors and being able to jump in without being immediately slaughtered. The current system presents the new players with a wall of grind to rank up, a discouraging amount of griefing deaths to suffer through, and a lot of quests dependent on full-raid takedowns of certain NPCs. Not saying scrap it, but it definitely needs to be augmented with many more quests/options for helping a creep rank up. You did say you guys are working on consumables and wrapper quests.

Changes to Audacity will likely help this, somewhat.

Last question: what is your best guess for the timeline on each of these improvements?

Some will start happening in 35. Certainly Grodris' move into the Isendeep. There will be other pieces that find their way in too.

[Seglord]

I know you say you won't talk about lag, I don't need an answer, I'm just here to say that all these ideas if crushed by horrible lag, will kill pvmp far more than it has ever. I have little faith, for years we heard about "were working on lag" "it's being chipped away at" etc. I hope I'm wrong, but suspect It will crash and burn in lagfest. well thankfully Elden Ring has pretty decent pve. wish it was applied here.

[uhgoo]

What I havent seen here is whats the motivation to defend keeps when they randomly autoflip?

Also bring back "healtagging" also known as getting credit for being a healer

[Elmagor]

What I havent seen here is whats the motivation to defend keeps when they randomly autoflip?

Are you sure they autoflip in u35?

[uhgoo]

Are you sure they autoflip in u35?

IDK havent seen it

[KevMcC]

Any time invested in PvMP should be on developing 3v3, 6v6, and 12v12 instance-based pvp matches.

[Sokratios]

I would like to see Bound to Account armour and jewellery pieces.

It is extremely difficult to keep up with all the grind for the same armour pieces/jewellery for people with multiple characters that want to enjoy fighting in the Moors and enjoy all classes.

Making it bound to account will enable the player to jump straight to the battle and enjoy the game, considering that they have already done the grind of the armour/jewellery pieces for the same base stat toon once (e.g., hunter/burglar/warden).

Thank you.

[Oldwiley]

1. Incentives which give renown/infamy or + to damage etc have their own dangers are they tend to create the behaviour of band waggoning onto the dominant side. Its an area to be cautious of. This matters because band waggoning is the enemy of small scale fights. If people end up getting +100% renown for holding multiple locations, you tend to see an inevitable drift to freep side for example once it is clear where the advantage is leaning in the fight etc etc, am hoping great care and thought is going into how to benefit and reward success. This is an issue for smaller servers in particular.

2. IF there is going to be some form of outnumbering buff applied, have thought for a long time it would make sense to make this rank based, ie exclude rank 5 or under from the calculations, the logic being you remove all those afk rank 1 to 5 "spies" who contribute nothing but angst to the moors, yet count towards any outnumbering.

3. If you have heal tagging for advancement, its a good idea to keep the return low as while healers deserve to get reward, a sea of healers "leaching" is the flip side of that behaviour.

4. If there is going to be any form of auto-flipping, please for the love of god make it very occasional. The flip every 5 minutes was, well frustration aside, just silly.

5. Scaling is certainly an area where things could help out a lot, a lack of / minimising of gating on gear would go a long way to helping with this.