“The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.” Scientia Vincere Tenebras
“The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.” Scientia Vincere Tenebras
“The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.” Scientia Vincere Tenebras
“The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.” Scientia Vincere Tenebras
Pharone the GnomeCome watch me stream Lord of The Rings Online every night at https://twitch.tv/pharone
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And how is this different from European colonial powers with chattel slavery?
I agree slave has a different meaning depending upon the time of history we are talking. The (known accepted) worst treated is the chattel slavery of the 15th-19th century by practically all the old empires. So just saying Barbary Coast means slaver is a bit silly, without understanding all of them were doing similar within that time period.
“The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.” Scientia Vincere Tenebras
“The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.” Scientia Vincere Tenebras
Pontin Level 140 Hobbit Burglar Leader of Second Breakfast Crickhollow Server.
other classes: Minstrel, Guardian, Captain, Hunter.
Taken many Screenshots of Middle-earth, Also a Moderator of the LotRO Community Discord server
Well, yeah, but they wouldn't be privateers. In Tolkien's world there is no such thing, most likely, is not an age of sails. Corsairs would be Corsairs - it is kinda both, ethnicity (or at least a culture out of Umbar) and piracy. It's a sort of nation that has no room for "true moral good guys" since it's a nation of piracy. I imagine they're not "getting hired" by anyone, it's captains doing their own raids sorta like Vikings but they're also part of the larger feudal system that answer to ruler in Umbar.
Funny that the first bit of "evidence" in the video is that "TBDCLASS" falls between Champ and Guard in the Fellowing UI class list, even though none of the rest of the list is in alphabetical order:
Clearly the rest of the snipped data says "Corsair", but after Cord's refutation, the class starting gear provides the best evidence for what the real class name will be:
Arda Shrugged : Elendilmir (RIP) -> Arkenstone -> Anor (RIP) -> Landroval -> Treebeard
Err... yes they did, if you looked at the extras as well. The real point there is the lack of rhyme or reason in a setting if you do that to it - no real sense of place or culture, and accents all over the place (even for people supposedly from the same place). And in The Witcher's setting, it isn't meant to be random (so there is supposed to be a particular sense of place and culture to it) but the places where other peoples had entered the world were far apart and separated by natural barriers so other peoples were far off and scarce known. To top that, even if the portals had been random then after the long time the population had been there, the population would have tended to homogenise, the accents would blur and it wouldn't be diverse like that any more. Either way what they've done with it is dumb. You can make excuses for that if you like.
Err... the Stout-axes don't have anything like as far to go as Haradrim would. Also of course Rhun isn't China, just like there's a whole lot of Asia to cross before you get to China. But the point is the distances are still very great and there are no trade routes to follow that might lead someone to Eriador. Again, it's a backwater. It's incredibly unlikely that some random Haradrim could make it all the way from wherever in Harad and then gravitate there of all places like he's a damn homing pigeon. Why there, when it's already unlikely that people from elsewhere in the West would be there themselves? It's silly, it doesn't have to be impossible to be so - just so unlikely as to be contrived and bad from a storytelling perspective.Back to LOTRO, any PC character would be somewhat capable adventurer/warrior, so taking such a risk for a good enough reason isn't unbelievable. They're not some weakling local merchant. Naturally, you have to deal with bandits and, in this world, wargs and wolfs and such, on the road. Stout Axe would be no exception. I'm not casual, I didn't say they're doing it like modern times. I only said there can be *some* Also, on Tolkien's map is longer distance from Rhun to Eriador but it's not that kind of distance like from China to France in a real world, it's much shorter actually, by a lot. Travel would be vastly limited between those places for multitude factors but is not impossible
It's made clear that there are no friendly relations between the peoples within Sauron's dominion and the West because he'd put considerable effort into making it that way. There wouldn't be neutral borderlands, the peoples living near the borders would be more tightly controlled with a no-man's-land (like South Gondor) in between them and lands still held by the West. Travel between the two would be dangerous. And if you think the people in Gondor wouldn't notice strangers or have some sort of means of keeping an eye out for people who might be spies you're having a laugh: they have Sauron for a neighbour, they would *have* to be careful. And some random guy from Harad wouldn't even speak Westron and would look distinctive, so how is he supposed to not stand out?You're overestimating Sauron's control here, like it's Matrix and every single aspect of their life is programmed. Invisible Berlin wall drawn, can't go, red enemies to fight, no borderlands with more neutral populace. Maybe you're talking start of the war, I was talking before the start. Bad blood can be there, sure, that's not something I said wouldn't be there. But that alone doesn't need to mean arrow to the back like in Dunland - which is an uncivilized backyard, frankly put. Some of such places you may have in Rhun and Harad too but you would also have more developed centers with some semblance of law and order, not tribal anarchy "we're doing what we please when out on a hunt." These would be under totalitarian regimes of course and allied to Sauron but it doesn't mean every single traveler would be immediately snatched without doing anything suspicious and sacrificed at the altar (though there can be "mistakes" of course). But especially vice versa, you wouldn't be just immediately snatched in the West and it's not modern world either by the way, so there is no surveillance. As I said, keep a low profile, use your hood if the place is particularly nasty, pick up some local customs as you go.
It's not normal circumstances! What on earth makes you think it is? Anyone like that would stick out like a sore thumb and attract attention, guaranteed. And what's this dude of yours supposed to say his business is, if someone in authority asks?Yeah, snatch every single traveler suspicious because of the color of their skin, weird accent and enjoying a peaceful meal at the local tavern. Just because. Because they may be a spy... even though it's only been a day, they haven't done anything wrong, were not seen snooping around garrisons, storage houses, fortifications etc, so more likely than not no one would even realize they are there - under normal circumstances, so you entered an open city gate, no questions asked, in one of the more populous and travelled settlements that sees a lot of travelers from nearby lands. And I never said there would be plenty of such travelers, only that some of them could actually be there, for one reason or another (escaped slave seeking freedom in lands beyond Sauron's control and known to have no slavery is a good example). Plus, any such PC would have important reason to undertake that journey - so worth the risk - rather than "I'm doing that on a whim because is certainly safe and like I'm going on vacation"
Are you saying here that while some of the ideas rolling around in here may be close to the mark, people are just off with the name of the class?
Gosh I hope not. I don't fancy running around Middle-earth beside a load of Zorros and Robin Hoods with a few Buttercups thrown in for good measure.
Sometimes, no matter how hard you look, there is no best light.
As far as the real world goes, it is saddening that it seems few people understand almost nothing has a straight forward simple answer; many people, particularly in the last few decades appear to hold strong "black and white" views on things that are far more complex. If anything there is usually a lot more grey area than people would take the time to accept. So certainly as I began my post with good vs evil and the one man's freedom fighter, I'd certainly like to see a lot more nuanced views generally.
As for lore breaking... I think the game became a very loose interpretation of Tolkien's environment a long long way back, its been a steady creep. But hey if you feel Mt T would have been inspired by equal portions of High Elves, Elves, Hobbits, Fist Fighters, Dwarves and the ever present menagerie of pet animals attending his iconic settings like Helms deep et al then ok. Lets not forget even the much acclaimed films could not resist increasing the number of elves at helms deep from one to 102ish.
Try not to take my posts too seriously.
My captain still has some pirate hat he acquired when the cap was 50 in his vault... as for piracy / slavery its never been a morally right thing, yes its been present in many civilisations and is only relatively recently considered no ok in (most) of the modern world.
I mean servant classes, peasants, nobility and kings are interesting topics for an ethical debate in the context of middle earth. Maybe volume 54 will bring a questline where some republicans try to overthrow the line of kings.
All the semantics about Privateers vs Pirates: if a state sponsors you to murder and steal at sea then that's ok then, as opposed to personal self interest, ah nuances....
My favourite post in this thread is the one pointing out that the new class will not be called Corsair : after that posts kept coming ^.^
"Romper: You have the power to make EM less boring for yourself and everyone else. "
"Look for your lore. But do not trust to lore, it has forsaken these lands." - Eolore prince of Lorehan
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Ceolford of Dale, Dorolin, Tordag, Garberend Bellheather, Colfinn Belegorn, Garmo Butterbuckles, Calensarn Nimlos, Langtiriel, Bergteir
hair splitting, we are talking about a class that borders on mariner, corsair, swashbuclkler. The name is not really relevant, the Devs will make the story work regardless.
Also, lets not forget - the Numenorians were themselves, slavers, at different periods of their history.
Last edited by k40rne; Feb 13 2023 at 09:26 PM.
“The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.” Scientia Vincere Tenebras
You really think these Corsairs are one big society, and not a lose affiliation of warring clans?
Yes, privateer & pirate are one and the same, the designation privateer just demonstrates they are under contract of a particular state. But corsair also falls under this rubric.
Etymology. Borrowed from French corsaire, from Medieval Latin cursarius (“pirate”), from Latin cursus (“course, a running; plunder, hostile inroad”). Doublet of courser and hussar.
Tolkien didn't have much to say on these other civilizations, but I'm sure he'd be delighted for someone (intelligently) expanding his legacy to include realistic understandings & portrayals of these complex cultures & societies. They certainly aren't monoliths & I'd expect SSG to take more of a Dunlending approach to to these areas in terms of ethnography. He was a linguistic anthropologist afterall.
Last edited by k40rne; Feb 13 2023 at 09:23 PM.
“The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.” Scientia Vincere Tenebras
Well, I'm glad we agree nuance is extremely important, and certainly lacking mores so - in these days of heightened polarization.
Yes, but it has to maintain being a game as well, a delicate balance I'm sure you'd agree. LOTRO has always been more known for the landscape world it created & in the distant past, its raid content . It has gotten better with stories imho. Certainly, Black book of Mordor was well done, but there are always going to be certain aspects we have to let slide a bit.
Yes, I'm the same, I try to convey light-heartedness wherever possible.
Well, there wasn't much to pick between any of them. A bit like knights whom we all love to romanticize, but they were much worse than most pirates - truth be told.
Last edited by k40rne; Feb 13 2023 at 09:27 PM.
“The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.” Scientia Vincere Tenebras
Yes, I did watch the full video. But he lost my suspension of disbelief at the obvious alphabetical flaw in the listed order of classes where he pointed out the TBDClass insertion.
There's speculation based on plausible facts and assumptions, and then there's building in what you want to believe, making up facts and assumptions to fit. Class confirmed? Not even close.
Fact: We already have Swanfleet, Cardolan and Angle of Mithenil, which I haven't played yet, but I understand that a town in Angle is filled with young rangers. What a perfect set-up for a new ranger class to go. Already leveling from 0-40 without any jarring, lore-breaking ideas getting inserted in there. Would I take those young rangers to Umbar? Yes, I would. They're trigger-happy hero wannabes who missed the big war.
And my speculation still fits with all of the things that the OP pointed out, the any direction you want to read it alphabetical order, the medium armor, the swashbuckling sword description that is a common landscape drop in low level areas. The only thing that it doesn't fit with is the reverse engineering of the beta by a friend to find out what the devs named their object classes. But for all I know, they just used the name Corsair because those are the known enemy stats to balance a new class against. Hard to speculate on the significance of the object class name when it's been pulled out of the programming context.
And I like rangers in a D & D context. They can use melee, range and some nature based spells, and they're covert, able to hide like a burglar. A Jack of All Trades. But a Dunedain would be a human with a much longer history, a nice balance for the high elf and stout axe dwarves, descendant from the men of Numenor who sailed the seas.