Discord

[Neinda]

Post being removed as someone used my name and a previous post of mine to start a new thread. While I appreciate the topic I do not appreciate someone posting in my name.

[WeirdJedi]

Why is Chord of Salvation no longer an immediate skill? Is there a list somewhere that shows the justification for these changes? Many of them seem arbitrary and it doesn't make sense to make massive changes to classes when mastery and power are in the process of an update.

I believe someone mentioned this topic is being discussed on the private discord. You may get more information there. I don't think anything much is expected to be different gameplay wise with this change. I think someone said on discord that this is about saving power with the new power update and not a big deal to how the mini functions.

It is true the developer has been in constant contact on Discord. He regularly explains and discusses changes there. You can check it out on Ghyniverse. Many use that channel to mention details that may or may not have been put on Bullroarer. In return, the developer usually talks about if a fix is already in place for the next Bullroarer or if there was some bug that he needs to check.

His response for Chord of Salvation is the following:

"If bMini is underperforming against other healers, that's a core output balance issue, not a lack of immediates. Minstrel is currently (and will still be) swimming in immediates."

"Keep in mind this chord change is happening concurrently with both an increase in straight healing from LIs at lvl 140 and a cleanup of PSD on healing skills."

"That said, Chord being immediate isn't going to make or break that balance, but it was contributing towards an undesirable rate of power consumption when used off cooldown (as an anim cut)"

"In which case I'm happy to hear it. Could be a bug, or even a bad comparison between different players on BR 2. If something is out of alignment between healer classes, I want to hear it."

"Also worth noting, we've walked back prior changes removing the Immediate flag, so this particular change is not guaranteed to go live. But in the long-term, we believe it's healthier to address the underlying skill flow and perceived issues that you feel make immediate cutting necessary, rather than simply allowing frequent & pervasive anim cutting to make up for deficiencies elsewhere."

[zipfile]

private discord

lol

[Neinda]

lol

LOL. The private discord is an "official" forum these days. It really doesn't matter what any of us think or feel about the topic.

[zipfile]

LOL. The private discord is an "official" forum these days. It really doesn't matter what any of us think or feel about the topic.

Except it isn't a private Discord at all. It's a public Discord where anyone can join.

So again....lol.

[Pewpewmidget]

Why is SSG using Ghyniverse as the actual forum instead of their own?
Yes, most of the forum posters won't have a understanding of what's going on but at least they would feel like they're kept in the loop.
And others, or SSG, could explain such things as well.

I personally do not like discord because it is a literal cluster#### and there are too many #######s and trolls.
I also feel like SSG should be using their actual forums to communicate rather than Ghyniverse.

[zipfile]

I personally do not like discord because it is a literal cluster#### and there are too many #######s and trolls.

Yes, and the forums are paragons of well structured posts and well-mannered individuals.

[Plidak]

LOL. The private discord is an "official" forum these days. It really doesn't matter what any of us think or feel about the topic.

In this game and this game only. Which is sad and show a lot

[Aeviternus]

Except it isn't a private Discord at all. It's a public Discord where anyone can join.

So again....lol.

Do SSG publicly announce that their developers engage with (very specific parts of) the community on an unofficial discord? No. Do SSG moderate said discord? No.

The discord server in question has a small clique of very active members, who play LotRO together and who will collectively attempt to ridicule and discredit anyone with a differing opinion. I was reliably informed that, after I left the discord, I was banned for "being rude" - when all I did was fighting fire with fire. Meanwhile, the sams clique of players will go on to stroke their own egos and give their one-sided feedback to the class devs, whilst too fragile to engage with someone who has a differing opinion. Truly, the pinnacle of intellectual debate.

So yes, it is practically a private discord. Don't even pretend otherwise.

[Elmagor]

Why is SSG using Ghyniverse as the actual forum instead of their own?
Yes, most of the forum posters won't have a understanding of what's going on but at least they would feel like they're kept in the loop.
And others, or SSG, could explain such things as well.

I personally do not like discord because it is a literal cluster#### and there are too many #######s and trolls.
I also feel like SSG should be using their actual forums to communicate rather than Ghyniverse.

Ghyniverse discord have more active players then Lotro forum. Most of people here conservative and overprotecting about their opinion and their style of playing Lotro. People on forum prefer not to change anything, they hate changes. But we already have Turbine who don't change most of game aspects for 10 years and just create location after location after location until database bloat with lags. Discord have trolls, but same thing happens here

Do SSG publicly announce that their developers engage with (very specific parts of) the community on an unofficial discord? No. Do SSG moderate said discord? No.

The discord server in question has a small clique of very active members, who play LotRO together and who will collectively attempt to ridicule and discredit anyone with a differing opinion. I was reliably informed that, after I left the discord, I was banned for "being rude" - when all I did was fighting fire with fire. Meanwhile, the sams clique of players will go on to stroke their own egos and give their one-sided feedback to the class devs, whilst too fragile to engage with someone who has a differing opinion. Truly, the pinnacle of intellectual debate.

So yes, it is practically a private discord. Don't even pretend otherwise.

Ghyniverse have 400+ active players, comparing with Lotro community, I can't call it "small clique". With all honest, can you see 400+ active members here on lotro.com? I don't see that.

[Aeviternus]

Ghyniverse have 400+ active players, comparing with Lotro community, I can't call it "small clique". With all honest, can you see 400+ active members here on lotro.com? I don't see that.

This is an absolutely ridiculous proposition. The fact of the matter is that, if you visit the Captain channel, you will see the exact same names trying to ridicule "dissenting" (from their perspective) voices, over and over again, whilst collectively agreeing with each other's points. These are the same names that are active in just about every class channel on that discord server, and there are no more than 10 of them. To suggest that there are 400+ people participating in the class balance discussion through discord is nothing short of disingenuous, or hilariously uninformed.

[TesalionLortus]

Ghyniverse have 400+ active players, comparing with Lotro community, I can't call it "small clique". With all honest, can you see 400+ active members here on lotro.com? I don't see that.

Its main channel is like General here, only much worse and far more chaotic = the dominative subjects are stats, gear, bosses, numbers, tokens, group content, controversy etc. With occasional snippets of new content or lore/quest/world discussions but those are pretty short (chaotic as well) and easily missed.

It makes it nothing like the community of reddit or even some of the differently oriented subjects that can be found here. So hardly an inclusive place. So while the overall activity numbers are certainly something, I don't feel like Ghyniverse users represent what the game "is" or "isn't," or what it should be. That's why the devs aren't closing this forum but it's still far from ideal since many people do not want to use the official venue period. So some of the feedback is scattered into different "cliques" and there are many who don't engage in meaningful, constructive ways at all regarding certain matters (say, the many female dwarves threads on this forum). A few of us, independently, mentioned email run surveys under that other communication thread about likes/dislikes, and that's... really a great idea - if we wanna talk actual answers regarding what people actually think, as in the majority. (And even then what the majority thinks may not always be what's ideal for the game, it vastly depends, but I guess having a decent idea is certainly better than none, no?)

PS: Also, if you told all forum users to post under one single thread... and minimized their browser windows to essentially become constrained, thin chat rooms, changed to be typed in real time... I bet you would see an increase in number of overall postings and - apparent activity and number of different users active - because we would all say things in one-liners too, rather than type 20 sentences.

[Marancil]

I find it sad that SSG - according to previous posts - seems to prefer one Discord over another. I do not consider that an appropriate approach on behalf of SSG. They should not favour one independent - private or not - communication channel/platform above the other. If they want to use Discord they should create their own Discord or try to be active in all Discords, or not at all. Personally I prefer forums before Discord, yet here we are. We adapt to what is used in order to help others and perhaps get some answers of our own.

[Elmagor]

Its main channel is like General here, only much worse and far more chaotic = the dominative subjects are stats, gear, bosses, numbers, tokens, group content, controversy etc. With occasional snippets of new content or lore/quest/world discussions but those are pretty short (chaotic as well) and easily missed.

It makes it nothing like the community of reddit or even some of the differently oriented subjects that can be found here. So hardly an inclusive place. So while the overall activity numbers are certainly something, I don't feel like Ghyniverse users represent what the game "is" or "isn't," or what it should be. That's why the devs aren't closing this forum but it's still far from ideal since many people do not want to use the official venue period. So some of the feedback is scattered into different "cliques" and there are many who don't engage in meaningful, constructive ways at all regarding certain matters (say, the many female dwarves threads on this forum). A few of us, independently, mentioned email run surveys under that other communication thread about likes/dislikes, and that's... really a great idea - if we wanna talk actual answers regarding what people actually think, as in the majority. (And even then what the majority thinks may not always be what's ideal for the game, it vastly depends, but I guess having a decent idea is certainly better than none, no?)

PS: Also, if you told all forum users to post under one single thread... and minimized their browser windows to essentially become constrained, thin chat rooms, changed to be typed in real time... I bet you would see an increase in number of overall postings and - apparent activity and number of different users active - because we would all say things in one-liners too, rather than type 20 sentences.

About female dwarf complains... still remember how one player complain about "Beorning tradition" quest and get exact quotes from JRRT book with almost same scene. So yes, many people complaining on forum clueless or just say part truth. Of course, devs don't need to make any decision based only by discord or only by forum. Ghyniverse users part of community, and forum members part of community.

[JuanD]

Do SSG publicly announce that their developers engage with (very specific parts of) the community on an unofficial discord? No. Do SSG moderate said discord? No.

The discord server in question has a small clique of very active members, who play LotRO together and who will collectively attempt to ridicule and discredit anyone with a differing opinion. I was reliably informed that, after I left the discord, I was banned for "being rude" - when all I did was fighting fire with fire. Meanwhile, the sams clique of players will go on to stroke their own egos and give their one-sided feedback to the class devs, whilst too fragile to engage with someone who has a differing opinion. Truly, the pinnacle of intellectual debate.

So yes, it is practically a private discord. Don't even pretend otherwise.

Well I started posting on the Ghyniverse when the betas for U35 started, and while some if the answers I got where made for the lols, none of them felt disrespectful, and the same goes for my questions and suggestions, which were also answered with respect and solid arguments as to why the do or don't work.

[Pewpewmidget]

Yes, and the forums are paragons of well structured posts and well-mannered individuals.

At least the forums are affiliated with SSG. Discord servers are not.

[Pewpewmidget]

I believe someone mentioned this topic is being discussed on the private discord.

Except it isn't a private Discord at all. It's a public Discord where anyone can join.

So again....lol.

Neinda's use of 'private' is technically correct.
Private vs public is also used to describe individually owned vs government (SSG) owned property.
The Ghyniverse discord server is owned by Ghynghyn, which makes it a private server since Ghyn is not a employed at SSG.
If Ghyniverse were to be owned and ran by SSG, or if SSG were to employ Gynghyn, then it make it a public server.

[Pewpewmidget]

In this game and this game only. Which is sad and show a lot

I agree.

[Pewpewmidget]

Do SSG publicly announce that their developers engage with (very specific parts of) the community on an unofficial discord? No. Do SSG moderate said discord? No.

The discord server in question has a small clique of very active members, who play LotRO together and who will collectively attempt to ridicule and discredit anyone with a differing opinion. I was reliably informed that, after I left the discord, I was banned for "being rude" - when all I did was fighting fire with fire. Meanwhile, the sams clique of players will go on to stroke their own egos and give their one-sided feedback to the class devs, whilst too fragile to engage with someone who has a differing opinion. Truly, the pinnacle of intellectual debate.

So yes, it is practically a private discord. Don't even pretend otherwise.

Man, this brings up some memories lol.
I was banned from a kinship-owned discord server on Crickhollow because I was fighting fire with fire.
But I didn't get any reason why I was being banned but my friend told me I was being rude to what was perceived as 'constructive criticism'.
This guy was literally taking cracks and making fun of my champion's build
and was offering unsolicited advice and was saying I'd never be able to raid or do group content with my current build.
Anyway, I go on my merry way and next endgame rolls around and I ended up running group content and raids with the same build that was being trashed.

Egomaniacs and elitists have nothing better to do than to mock others and they almost always get away with it.

[Pewpewmidget]

Ghyniverse discord have more active players then Lotro forum. Most of people here conservative and overprotecting about their opinion and their style of playing Lotro. People on forum prefer not to change anything, they hate changes. But we already have Turbine who don't change most of game aspects for 10 years and just create location after location after location until database bloat with lags. Discord have trolls, but same thing happens here

So what you're saying is that you are okay with SSG turning their heads away from the regular forum posters?
Also, change is necessary and vital for mmos to survive over the years. So these posters you're describing are ok with the game dying?
Everyone needs to be collectively voicing out to SSG on their feedback about the game. They shouldn't pay more attention to one source over the other.

[Elmagor]

So what you're saying is that you are okay with SSG turning their heads away from the regular forum posters?
Also, change is necessary and vital for mmos to survive over the years. So these posters you're describing are ok with the game dying?
Everyone needs to be collectively voicing out to SSG on their feedback about the game. They shouldn't pay more attention to one source over the other.

I okay with SSG getting feedback from many places (as many as they want). Assuming what they must follow only feedback from regular forum posters looks very weird for me. I don't see game dying, but I see this forum dying

[Fadil]

Neinda's use of 'private' is technically correct.
Private vs public is also used to describe individually owned vs government (SSG) owned property.
The Ghyniverse discord server is owned by Ghynghyn, which makes it a private server since Ghyn is not a employed at SSG.
If Ghyniverse were to be owned and ran by SSG, or if SSG were to employ Gynghyn, then it make it a public server.

Semantics, and word games. No one was talking about who owns the server.
Discord has private and public servers. This is a public server, where all Lotro players are welcome.
In a private discord server people can only join on invitation, here everyone can join.
Neinda knows that, you know that, but suggesting it's a private server can create some fake outrage I guess.:P

[Heno08]

I okay with SSG getting feedback from many places (as many as they want). Assuming what they must follow only feedback from regular forum posters looks very weird for me. I don't see game dying, but I see this forum dying

But they are not just collecting feedback from there are they? They seem to be posting new information that is not available anywhere else, which is how this whole conversation came about…

I am fine with all this extra communication with players, but it really should be done through official channels that everyone has access to. A private server is not the right place

[Fadil]

So what you're saying is that you are okay with SSG turning their heads away from the regular forum posters?

Yes I am absolutely ok with that.
Why would 20 or 30 forums users who make up a tiny representation of the player base and who have made these forums so unwelcoming that a huge amount of players ignore the forums, get any input at all?
Get rid of these forums for all I care, no one will miss them.

[Heno08]

Semantics, and word games. No one was talking about who owns the server.
Discord has private and public servers. This is a public server, where all Lotro players are welcome.
In a private discord server people can only join on invitation, here everyone can join.
Neinda knows that, you know that, but suggesting it's a private server can create some fake outrage I guess.:P

It is not just semantics, the discord sever is run by a 3rd party who could arbitrarily ban anyone from his server and therefore cut off a route of contact with the devs. While I am sure this guy currently manages his discord in a fair way, it still does not seem appropriate to me and a lot of others to have SSG using it the way they do.

Yes I am absolutely ok with that.
Why would 20 or 30 forums users who make up a tiny representation of the player base and who have made these forums so unwelcoming that a huge amount of players ignore the forums, get any input at all?
Get rid of these forums for all I care, no one will miss them.

Fine… get rid of the forums if you want. They will still need to be replaced by something else run by SSG. They can’t rely on 3rd parties to mange this