New Legendary Items Rework grind is worse than old system

[wispsong]

I for myself was stopping playing when the new system came in, i hated it, i loved the old LI and ILI System. After a year i came back and watched some Videos on youtube, wasnt clearly aware when to start with building a new LI. Shortly before the new system was integrated, I built a lot of third age level 70 weapons, i think as long as they dont change the system with acient scripts i could build A LOT OF new Weapons for all of my alts without needing the Reward track (at least with purple stuff).

Once you've built a few weapons the system is really easy and it's even fun to build one because you can choose which traceries you want.

I highly doubt the old system is coming back, so its worthless to discuss that.

The only thing i would change in this system:

Each character should have their own reward track.

The Reward Track is really worse like it is. I was at level 100 approx 2 weeks after it has resetted. Now i'm at 180, every day i open 20-30 chests, and after a session i'm again back to 170-180. Sure sometimes i get a gold tracery mark out of it, which is nice, but mostly ancient scripts (which i also could throw away).

Also i would like to see the max level of traceries removed.

RT: It highly depends on what character you play, how much you play and where you play. I quested for a month on my lvl 110 to 131 and she has half done. If I play a character without the Moria title, nothing gets done and if I just play end game (missions/dailies) the RT moves faster. Some players don't even get halfway through in 3 months. I would never get it done because I like to play different characters and never do 3 months of end game. It would again just help certain groups and leave others behind.

On levelling characters I don't always exchange traceries when I get to the next level and I couldn't even enhance old but still valid traceries. So this expiration doesn't make any sense. They can't become more powerful anyways and eventually will need to be replaced.

[Elmagor]

I read your comment before finish reading this thread and already had a facepalm moment.
Do you not remember what I said about both LI systems and that there was far less RNG?
The fact that you crafted ~30 First Age belts for one item just shows that you did not truly understand how deconstructing worked.
You were able to pick and choose whichever legacy you wanted from a third age belt, and it didn't matter how you acquired them.
The fact that third age belts were also bartered at the skirmish camp meant that you could get them at ease and pick n choose the belt with the legacies you wanted.
I literally never had to worry about the RNG as you were able to pull lvl 65 legacies and put them onto 75's and then 85's and 95's and 100's.
I also had the legacies I wanted on the random legendary items that I have looted so I never had to do what I mentioned the line above either.
You just had to get those LIs to lvl 30+ then deconstruct them then you had your legacies.

First of all, old guardian belt have + 3/4/5 agro not from legacy, it was random stat from LI and you can't change it after you craft LI

As example, my first 1A Staff from Draigoch symbol have +Agility and +Parry (again not from legacy), good for LM, right?

Secondly, during actual content time, you can get LI only from instances/quests, they appear in skimirsh camp later after everyone done with that content

[DoRonRon]

First of all, old guardian belt have + 3/4/5 agro not from legacy, it was random stat from LI and you can't change it after you craft LI

As example, my first 1A Staff from Draigoch symbol have +Agility and +Parry (again not from legacy), good for LM, right?

Secondly, during actual content time, you can get LI only from instances/quests, they appear in skimirsh camp later after everyone done with that content

We had the time at each cap to get what gear was available for the duration and then try to ID better passives on LIs if we were getting symbols hand over fist. If you had done that work then you were set for Imbuement and never had to take that step again. 50 MC or a ridiculous 795 LP for the store scroll could slot a major into a previously minor slot if needed. Much the easier to ID legacies from lvl 30 third agers to harvest choice ones too. The system that has us open up sealed traceries looking for one or two choice ones and a host of others you may not want is easier but in no way better. Just has you wondering what to do with all the dross; flame them, store them - a waste!

I had three belts with different aggro stats, main was +3 but the situational "heal" belt was +5 but the cost to change all legacies around was too much for me. LI swapping changes put paid to that and ofc fixed all the LAG! NOT. We had proper threat mechanics back in the day though. The nonsense of variable passive stats on two handers was an entirely unnecessary developer choice born out of disassociation from the game perhaps? That callous disassociation continues from certain departments because we get to see what they implement. Divisions in the game reflecting those in the office?

Underneath it's still the old system just made it into a selfish endeavour with no trade options. Enough in it still for the clever to circumvent the worst of it. Only putting up the least adept to show it off in live streams must have a reason behind it. System devs must be used to their efforts being utterly beyond the ken of those they put up to show their systems off in Live Streams and "officials".

[HolyDuckTape]

First of all, old guardian belt have + 3/4/5 agro not from legacy, it was random stat from LI and you can't change it after you craft LI

As example, my first 1A Staff from Draigoch symbol have +Agility and +Parry (again not from legacy), good for LM, right?

Secondly, during actual content time, you can get LI only from instances/quests, they appear in skimirsh camp later after everyone done with that content

Old LI system have RNG system too (3 major legacy, or 4, or 5).

Barely any class needed so many major legacies so barely any class was affected by the rng of it and the moment the imbued system happened, this rng's effect got completely nulified aka for the majority of LI's existance the effects of this rng became zero, bruh.

I remember we craft like 30 1st age guardian belts until we get maximum agro for our main tank

Well then, uhmm..... should have just bartered for the LI instead of crafted it if you wanted picture perfect rng to get that extra super important gamechanging +15 agility difference on your LI. The guard rng stat was useless btw because the threat system has barely ever worked. So you made everything harder on yourself for no reason whatsoever. That's not the fault of the LI system but yours.

You fail to compare both systems if you never mention Imbued LI system

Yeah indeed, the imbued LI system made the old LI system even better than it originally was. It made everything much easier to change around, reduced all rng associated to zero and it ended the age of level caps ruining your LI's cough* tracery max level cough*. Thank you.

I'm glad you think you made valid arguments.../chuckle

Sorry, the only argument you ever made was that you were one of the people who farmed Rako and circumvented the grind.
You even went as far as to suggest that the 95% of players who didnt know that trick or didnt know how to do that were dumb, and should
have just asked you for help.
A system where a tiny handful of players get stinking rich by finding a little loophole and then selling scrolls/ crystals for tens of thousands of gold to other players, isnt good,
decent or in any way, shape or form better than the current system.

And just because YOU were able to circumvent the grind, doesnt mean the grind didnt exist for 95% of players who didnt game the system.

But the two or three players on the mbs who dont like the current system arent going to bring back that godfersaken grind for the 99,9% of other players, so whatever.

I guess playing an instance accesable to everyone with its quest pack is now called ''a trick''. Playing an instance that gave you a crazy lot of LI mats is ''circumventing the grind''. Well maybe you should have just played the instance yourself then. You could argue it wasn't accesible to literally everyone during 105 cap itself but ever since well... 115,120,130,140 cap literally anyone could do it while being overlevelled, at that point it was simply your own choice to refuse to play the content that gave you all the LI mats for the whole level cap in barely any playing time for literally no skill required. You made it dramatically harder on yourself. Who hurt you? Yourself it seems.

Even then, getting mats was not hard without throne farming. There were plenty of daillies, instances, quests, player-to-player buying and most importantly: barters where you could get enough mats in a very fast time. I do agree that the initial grind when you just start out with your LI was a bit daunting but once you got it going, it was easy as cake to maintain it every level cap. And i also agree that there was a time where LI mat drops in especially instances and questing was quite bad for a while but SSG picked up on this and started rewarding us a lot more again.

[wispsong]

Barely any class needed so many major legacies so barely any class was affected by the rng of it and the moment the imbued system happened, this rng's effect got completely nulified aka for the majority of LI's existance the effects of this rng became zero, bruh.



Well then, uhmm..... should have just bartered for the LI instead of crafted it if you wanted picture perfect rng to get that extra super important gamechanging +15 agility difference on your LI. The guard rng stat was useless btw because the threat system has barely ever worked. So you made everything harder on yourself for no reason whatsoever. That's not the fault of the LI system but yours.



Yeah indeed, the imbued LI system made the old LI system even better than it originally was. It made everything much easier to change around, reduced all rng associated to zero and it ended the age of level caps ruining your LI's cough* tracery max level cough*. Thank you.




I guess playing an instance accesable to everyone with its quest pack is now called ''a trick''. Playing an instance that gave you a crazy lot of LI mats is ''circumventing the grind''. Well maybe you should have just played the instance yourself then. You could argue it wasn't accesible to literally everyone during 105 cap itself but ever since well... 115,120,130,140 cap literally anyone could do it while being overlevelled, at that point it was simply your own choice to refuse to play the content that gave you all the LI mats for the whole level cap in barely any playing time for literally no skill required. You made it dramatically harder on yourself. Who hurt you? Yourself it seems.

Even then, getting mats was not hard without throne farming. There were plenty of daillies, instances, quests, player-to-player buying and most importantly: barters where you could get enough mats in a very fast time. I do agree that the initial grind when you just start out with your LI was a bit daunting but once you got it going, it was easy as cake to maintain it every level cap. And i also agree that there was a time where LI mat drops in especially instances and questing was quite bad for a while but SSG picked up on this and started rewarding us a lot more again.

Maybe you can't get it but not everybody wants to do instances 24/7. I'm a landscape quester...I don't even do any endgame more than 4-6 weeks at the most and hardly repeat it on alts.

The Moria LI was ok because I got a new one each addition and lvl increase, the catch up on the ILI was killing.

[HolyDuckTape]

Maybe you can't get it but not everybody wants to do instances 24/7. I'm a landscape quester...I don't even do any endgame more than 4-6 weeks at the most and hardly repeat it on alts.

The Moria LI was ok because I got a new one each addition and lvl increase, the catch up on the ILI was killing.

And that's what im also saying, in the old system you could get LI mats from any source and all ways of getting it were perfectly viable. Some ways like throne were indeed incredibly fast (which is a good thing cause this means barely having to grind at all) compared to other ways but there was no other way that lacked behind and was too slow to level up your LI's with. I myself used to do gondor daily landscape to get my LI mats for a very long time before i started doing throne runs to grind them. There was a way to max out your LI's in every way.

This new system is not friendly to landscape questers. Sure you may get a lot of green and purple upgrade mats but what about the teals and golds you will need towards the end of a level cap? Those are almost 100% from high tier instancing. The seasonal track is among the only things providing a few of them to landscape questers. This new system is especially against questers

[wispsong]

And that's what im also saying, in the old system you could get LI mats from any source and all ways of getting it were perfectly viable. Some ways like throne were indeed incredibly fast (which is a good thing cause this means barely having to grind at all) compared to other ways but there was no other way that lacked behind and was too slow to level up your LI's with. I myself used to do gondor daily landscape to get my LI mats for a very long time before i started doing throne runs to grind them. There was a way to max out your LI's in every way.

This new system is not friendly to landscape questers. Sure you may get a lot of green and purple upgrade mats but what about the teals and golds you will need towards the end of a level cap? Those are almost 100% from high tier instancing. The seasonal track is among the only things providing a few of them to landscape questers. This new system is especially against questers

It is better than the ILI. I wasn't going to spend thousands of gold or MC on upgrades. Now I play the game the way I like it and get the items I need for upgrades from quests and RT. I also get lots of teal and gold tokens in addition to RNG teal and gold traceries. I don't play high tier instancing not even Delvings, so I don't get high tier gear or essences and you tell me I need high grade traceries for landscape toward the end of the cap? If that ever happens I stop playing new content which I had planned on alts concerning the ILI. Landscape rewards need to be enough to continue in landscape and there were never enough ILI items from questing to even put a dent in the requirement.

[Pewpewmidget]

I'm glad you think you made valid arguments.../chuckle

Sorry, the only argument you ever made was that you were one of the people who farmed Rako and circumvented the grind.
You even went as far as to suggest that the 95% of players who didnt know that trick or didnt know how to do that were dumb, and should
have just asked you for help.
A system where a tiny handful of players get stinking rich by finding a little loophole and then selling scrolls/ crystals for tens of thousands of gold to other players, isnt good,
decent or in any way, shape or form better than the current system.

And just because YOU were able to circumvent the grind, doesnt mean the grind didnt exist for 95% of players who didnt game the system.

But the two or three players on the mbs who dont like the current system arent going to bring back that godfersaken grind for the 99,9% of other players, so whatever.

Good to see that you are still putting words into my mouth that I never said.
I never suggested people were dumb for not knowing stuff.
But I did say that people didn't help themselves. And that still holds true.
I did not profit off of the Rako grind, or even used any of my Ancient Ithil-coins for that matter.
I just helped my friends kill Rako and complete the raid because I actually liked the raid and killing Rako.
You seem to always be accusing me of stuff I never did just because I say good things about the old system that you didn't like.
Stuff about the old system that proved that many people complained about it just to complain about something.
The system was fine, just needed tons of work. I never said it was perfect or easy, just quicker and less grindy.

[Pewpewmidget]

First of all, old guardian belt have + 3/4/5 agro not from legacy, it was random stat from LI and you can't change it after you craft LI

You weren't clear on that. I thought you meant the taunt legacy.

[Elmagor]

And that's what im also saying, in the old system you could get LI mats from any source and all ways of getting it were perfectly viable. Some ways like throne were indeed incredibly fast (which is a good thing cause this means barely having to grind at all) compared to other ways but there was no other way that lacked behind and was too slow to level up your LI's with. I myself used to do gondor daily landscape to get my LI mats for a very long time before i started doing throne runs to grind them. There was a way to max out your LI's in every way.

This new system is not friendly to landscape questers. Sure you may get a lot of green and purple upgrade mats but what about the teals and golds you will need towards the end of a level cap? Those are almost 100% from high tier instancing. The seasonal track is among the only things providing a few of them to landscape questers. This new system is especially against questers

Forge/Loft and solo CD instances drop them. You don't need group to farm them

[Neinda]

The old system required farming materials. The new system requires farming materials via different methods. The only difference I see is that under the new system the working parts expire every so many levels and become useless. Under the old system the LIs and all their parts kept working no matter the level until they were replaced or imbued. After imbuement, the working parts only needed upgrades vs total replacement. It is a case of scrolls and crystals vs enhancement runes. Same grind. New names.

We will all have a better idea of how the new system works when the level cap goes up to 150 and we find out if the currently being earned and hoarded ancient script and other items are worth anything other than vendor trash. Until then it is just a guess if the new system is a better or worse grind. If they go the way of armor, there will be ancient script for 140 and below and new (insert name) script for level cap. If that happens, the reward track will be interesting. Will people earn new or old currency or will it depend on the level of the character opening the script boxes? There is also the possibility that they could wipe out our balances of ancient script and other items like they used to do with seals for armor. Maybe the script will be converted to (insert name) script. Who knows? If anything, it will be interesting. But whatever they do, we can pretty much be guaranteed another currency cap in the game.

The thing I miss about the old system was the ability to share upgrade items with other players. I kept crystals and scrolls on hand to give away. Now I toss most of the earned items because I really don't feel like making storage characters.

[Fadil]

I guess playing an instance accesable to everyone with its quest pack is now called ''a trick''. Playing an instance that gave you a crazy lot of LI mats is ''circumventing the grind''. Well maybe you should have just played the instance yourself then.

I knew it. Only the people who farmed Rako are still complaining about the new LI system.
FYI mate: I did farm Rako.... for myself. I also know people made tens of thousands of gold preying on casual players who didnt know or couldnt do the trick.
Spare me your outrage about the new system.

[Neinda]

I knew it. Only the people who farmed Rako are still complaining about the new LI system.
FYI mate: I did farm Rako.... for myself. I also know people made tens of thousands of gold preying on casual players who didnt know or couldnt do the trick.
Spare me your outrage about the new system.

Not everyone here farms things for gold. Some people just like to help others in game. The handful of times I joined for Rako was to help others get stuff. I usually gave away the tokens for whatever it was we earned because someone needed them. Not everyone wants to be rich in game with play money. Nothing much to buy. Although I would buy reasonably priced first age symbols and give them away to people when they hit 100.

[Pewpewmidget]

I knew it. Only the people who farmed Rako are still complaining about the new LI system.
FYI mate: I did farm Rako.... for myself. I also know people made tens of thousands of gold preying on casual players who didnt know or couldnt do the trick.
Spare me your outrage about the new system.

Like I said a handful of times before, most people don't even care to help themselves.
There's no point in arguing that with you because you will spin it however you please because you really do not understand human nature.

Yes, there were people who profited off of it, so sue them. Why is it that you always bring this up and never those who choose to help others?
Oh wait, most people help other people in silence. They don't feel the need to gloat about it in order to make themselves feel good.
Those who have been open about helping others have done so to fend off negative minds like yours.

[Fadil]

Not everyone here farms things for gold. Some people just like to help others in game. The handful of times I joined for Rako was to help others get stuff. I usually gave away the tokens for whatever it was we earned because someone needed them. Not everyone wants to be rich in game with play money. Nothing much to buy. Although I would buy reasonably priced first age symbols and give them away to people when they hit 100.

Did I claim everyone here farmed Rako for gold?
I just find it interesting that whomever protests the new system did in fact farm rako. But Im sure
they're all mother Theresa in disguise.:P

[Pewpewmidget]

Did I claim everyone here farmed Rako for gold?
I just find it interesting that whomever protests the new system did in fact farm rako. But Im sure
they're all mother Theresa in disguise.:P

So everyone has to agree with you?

[Pontin_Finnberry]

I like the new system better then the old system, but I do agree with level cap on traceries, that could be different and less punishing.

I knew from the start of the old imbudedment system it would be the big grind it was, I even asked about what happens when level cap rises over games lifetime never got a clear answer back then.
Anyway with new system I don't need to ask such a question as I do not think the new systems grind is worst then the old system, I find it way better, but that me.

[DavidmeetHal]

I like the new system, much, much better. I spend way less time micromanaging and I'm no longer changing LIs all the time like before. Oh man, I hated that. And having to go out and gain 10 levels when you picked up your rookie LI? That sucked, I was so tired of it.

Is the new system perfect? Of course not, the reasons are stated here in the thread. But I'll take it over the old system any day of the week including Tuesday.

[Arabani]

I'd say make the LI system similar to the Virtue system: we have a set of traits, but can only choose a certain amount of them at a time. Let crafters make weapons and class items again. Weaponsmith is particularly useless nowdays.

[HolyDuckTape]

I knew it. Only the people who farmed Rako are still complaining about the new LI system.
FYI mate: I did farm Rako.... for myself. I also know people made tens of thousands of gold preying on casual players who didnt know or couldnt do the trick.
Spare me your outrage about the new system.

Doesn't change the fact that the LI grind has gotten WORSE for non-instancers aswell so gg

[zipfile]

Doesn't change the fact that the LI grind has gotten WORSE for non-instancers aswell so gg

...but...it isn't? There's plenty of sources for the runes with almost every activity rewarding something, as opposed to old system where you specifically had to farm outdated dailies.

Current system is better, I just wish that traceries were level-universal/not-gated by levelling up.

[Pewpewmidget]

Doesn't change the fact that the LI grind has gotten WORSE for non-instancers aswell so gg

Non-instancers and casual players couldn't care less if their LIs aren't maxed.
They're fine with all yellow/purple or even teal traceries at level 480.

This grind is only bad for high tier instancers and raiders and people who take care of their characters and want the most out of their LIs tbh.

[why-becauseIcan]

Can we also talk about how terrible the new UI is for these items? You can't even compare them to your equipped items as the tooltips doesn't even work. You cant inspect and see other players LIs fully. The traceries are not split by weapons/class items either, so its very confusing to slot the right traceries as you can't have duplicates.The old UI was so much cleaner and easy to use, this system is just dreadful at its current state.

[Fadil]

Doesn't change the fact that the LI grind has gotten WORSE for non-instancers aswell so gg

I just leveled a character from 0 to 140. Used LIs every level after 50, upgraded the traceries when required, used runes from quests, and didnt spend 1 second grinding for them.
I was determined to only use what the game provided along the way (instead of using the traceries I already had).
A lot of the rep factions along the way let you trade traceries for rep coins.
A lot of the needed traceries drop from quests, mostly the epic quests. If needed you can buy some yellow/ purple traceries along the way.
So, now I get to 140 without one second of grind, and I can use the traceries from the reward track, and the tokens/ runes that drop from there, as well.

I have 5 maxed chars that no longer need any traceries, and yet still managed to build up an extra stack of 33 teal tracery tokens, which are atm in my bank.
By simply doing the epic, the reward track, and the many wrapper quests and so on, I would normally also do.

On my raid alts, I have 3 chars with full gold traceries. The only grind there ever was, was in the very beginning when people were determined
to run Sâri-surma day in day out. /puke
These days we collect gold traceries by playing instances/ raids, and they are now fellowship tradeable, which imo helps a lot. Even if you usually get #### traceries, there's always
someone in your raid that gets a tracery you can use for an alt and vice versa.
Then the epic, the reward track and the festival wrappers provide you with gold tokens.

None of that involves any repetitive activity which you would normally not do, which imo is what grinding means.

The grind has not only NOT gotten worse, it's simply gone.

[Tralfazz]

The grind has not only NOT gotten worse, it's simply gone.

100%.

The only "frustrations" I have with the current system are the Ancient Script cap and the random traceries. The cap is just an annoyance, if SSG doesn't want people holding large amounts of Ancient Script for when the next level cap is introduced just convert it all to some other currency at that time. And I'd rather just pick my own traceries at the archive in Rivendell, please just give me tokens and Ancient Script so I can do that instead of random traceries (which often need to be stored unopened for some potential future use).

But those two things don't bother me so much that they "bother" me. It would be a more pleasant experience with those two changes though, for sure.

edit: Well, I guess I'd also like to see the max level on traceries removed. Or at least the number of tracery level caps reduced to, say, 95–120–140. There is a range from 95-120 where you get capped multiple times in 25 levels and that is definitely an annoyance and a major drawdown on Ancient Script for those of us that enjoy customization rather than just sticking in whatever random traceries we happen to get from quests and the reward track.