Stop putting a max level on everything

[HolyDuckTape]

Stop putting a max level on everything,

It removes a lot of fun because the variety to gear ourselves how we want and to have different playstyles gets thrown out the window

Ever since the throne sets got level capped during 130cap, the wide-scale extermination of old player gear has begun. Why? It serves no purpose to streamline everyone into literally becoming the same clone of eachother. There is so little variety anymore in gearing up, so little variety in playstyles. It sucks the fun out of the game. Everyone got the same gear, same essences, same traceries, same traits, same everything. It's incredibly boring.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Removing the max level off gear, will make the game a lot more fun. Here are some of the benefits and negatives of doing this:

Positives:

• *More variety to gear and suit your playstyles
  -
• *Keep use of old gear you earned
  -
• *Old content will remain relevant, also increasing the variety in instances, quests, landscape etc. which you can choose to enjoy once again.
  -
• *More player choice
  -
• *More minmaxing for those who like to push themselves to the max

Negatives:

• *Minmaxing will require a bit more grind; in older content if you have not done that content before. 99% of the time this isn't a problem for minmaxers though.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Removing the max level off gear will bring back a lot more variety in players their favourite builds and liven up older content somewhat. Let everyone choose however they want to gear. No one ever needed older gear in order to beat new endgame content, it purely supports player choice for variety/playstyle and satisfy the needs of people who like to minmax and challenge themselves because often times using old gear, will put you at a massive disadvantage survival-wise to begin with. That's already a soft-cap enough. Players should always have the ability to push themselves to the limit and have extra fun this way if they so choose. Let us use and enjoy all the set bonuses of old... at a cost, if we so wish. I would love to use epic battles, gondor class essences, throne, anvil, abyss, remmo and more old bonuses because they are just fun to use and bring so much more content to the game. On the other hand there is literally no reason to put a cap level on gear. What's the whole point of that? It's just lame. I can understand it for buff items such as portents and unobtainable gear but normal obtainable gear? That is nonsense.
-
Same stuff can be said about removing tracery max levels (less grinding) and bringing back 3 trait trees (more variety/playstyles) but those are subjects of their own.

[Tralfazz]

I agree with this, mostly. If a Level 140 player wants to use 4 pieces of some Level 95 gear set because there is some useful set bonus, and that player is willing to accept the incredibly huge stat penalty the character will suffer from using Level 95 instead of Level 131-140 gear in those equipment slots in order to get that set bonus; let the player do it. I really don't see the point of having to get entire new sets of traceries for LIs after Level 95 and all the other semi-random and far-too-numerous breakpoints where traceries just stop working, either.

But only "mostly" because there are some items which have a maximum level and an interesting or powerful effect but no stat bonuses at all (pocket items or inventory bag items that I can think of off the top of my head) and since there is no penalty for using such items instead of an on-level item, it would make sense for such items to retain their maximum level restriction.

[Plidak]

Stop putting a max level on everything,

[*]*Keep use of old gear you earned
-
.

Question is, can you still fit in your wedding suit ? :3


Now lets be serious. IMO /IMHO even/ they just force you to grind.
Its all about this. Grind and time sink. Its always the same in every MMO.But if in other i play it looks like precise scalpel cut, in lotro is like removing your leg with chansaw....

Whatever. Guess we have what we have, and i dont see it changing

[WorrBinpike]

+1 for that, but i believe they wont do it.

As far as i remember they have done that back in the days because there were some set bonusses that screwed the balancing of some classes, because a set bonus was to good.

[Hephburz-2]

I disagree entirely.

Because it means they have to balance conetnt around the entire game, not just the current gear and set bonuses. There was a very clear reason why max level on gear was introduced, because certain set bonuses when stacked together was extremely OP - or do we not remember the 3 set bonuses that gave -5s CD to piercing cry that all stacked with eachother and gave minstrel a 0s CD? Or the barrage spamming hunters? Or using OB 3 times in the space of 3minutes?

Not only that, but when it comes to things like portents, it punishes people going forward, if you did not play when that content was relevant, you won't have them going forward into the level cap. Everyone should be on an equal, FRESH, footing, at every new level cap, not disadvantaged because they didn't play and so can't bring XYZ with them.

So no. Max levels are good.

[wispsong]

I disagree entirely.

Because it means they have to balance conetnt around the entire game, not just the current gear and set bonuses. There was a very clear reason why max level on gear was introduced, because certain set bonuses when stacked together was extremely OP - or do we not remember the 3 set bonuses that gave -5s CD to piercing cry that all stacked with eachother and gave minstrel a 0s CD? Or the barrage spamming hunters? Or using OB 3 times in the space of 3minutes?

Not only that, but when it comes to things like portents, it punishes people going forward, if you did not play when that content was relevant, you won't have them going forward into the level cap. Everyone should be on an equal, FRESH, footing, at every new level cap, not disadvantaged because they didn't play and so can't bring XYZ with them.

So no. Max levels are good.

Disable the set bonus.

[zipfile]

Disable the set bonus.

They did that already, most of the newer item sets just disable the bonus, you can still benefit from the gear itself.

However, in this case (for the next update), it's literally an entire item that has no set bonus....so....yeah, certain items should be disabled.

[Hephburz-2]

Disable the set bonus.

When it comes to things like armour set bonuses, I fully agree that disabling the set bonus after X level is a better option than putting a max equip level on the gear - this I support.

But that doesn't work for things like portents though, or items that have a "use" effect. Which should 100% have a max level.

[DoRonRon]

Bonuses have to have a limited span because long term consequences were never sufficiently considered and soon disappears from minds as the focus goes on to the next thing and the next update.

Everything implemented should have a maintenance budget ideally, but that is not for Lotro. It can be literally years later for the focus to return to a system for a rethink/revamp.

[HolyDuckTape]

I disagree entirely.

Because it means they have to balance conetnt around the entire game, not just the current gear and set bonuses. There was a very clear reason why max level on gear was introduced, because certain set bonuses when stacked together was extremely OP - or do we not remember the 3 set bonuses that gave -5s CD to piercing cry that all stacked with eachother and gave minstrel a 0s CD? Or the barrage spamming hunters? Or using OB 3 times in the space of 3minutes?

Not only that, but when it comes to things like portents, it punishes people going forward, if you did not play when that content was relevant, you won't have them going forward into the level cap. Everyone should be on an equal, FRESH, footing, at every new level cap, not disadvantaged because they didn't play and so can't bring XYZ with them.

So no. Max levels are good.

And that's exactly what i said, buff-items (such as portents) this also includes buff gear) and unobtainable gear (OB reset) should all be max levelled. These are the only important exceptions to the rule

Everything else should not have a max level and be freely accesable to benefit from fully by a player if they wish to take on the stat hit. In case of any bonuses that can still be abused after this, you can easily fix this issue by just setting a max limit of how much set bonuses can affect x thing. Such as ''piercing cry cd cannot fall below x seconds'' no matter how many set bonuses of these you stack on top of eachother.

[Hephburz-2]

And that's exactly what i said, buff-items (such as portents) this also includes buff gear) and unobtainable gear (OB reset) should all be max levelled. These are the only important exceptions to the rule

Everything else should not have a max level and be freely accesable to benefit from fully by a player if they wish to take on the stat hit. In case of any bonuses that can still be abused after this, you can easily fix this issue by just setting a max limit of how much set bonuses can affect x thing. Such as ''piercing cry cd cannot fall below x seconds'' no matter how many set bonuses of these you stack on top of eachother.

And again, this still creates the problem that devs have to balance content around multiple set bonuses, rather than simply the ones they are providing you with in that level cap, which is a harder task.

[HolyDuckTape]

And again, this still creates the problem that devs have to balance content around multiple set bonuses, rather than simply the ones they are providing you with in that level cap, which is a harder task.

The fact that set bonus gear gets worse and worse overtime as stats increase is a trade-off good enough to balance itself. It automatically balances itself to higher level content. It automatically limits players in how many set bonuses they can take simultaneously aswell. All the devs have to do in this regard is to not make fights where someone barely ever get hits, as long as people need to survive to clear content, they will be hit with this balancing trade-off. Have some stat-checks in place and the set bonuses will balance themselves out. The devs don't have to change anything in how they make content. It would be horribly balanced content to begin with if you could do it without stat checks.

You would need to have set bonuses that are completely broken OP to make it a balancing concern for future content but then they would already be a balancing concern in its own level cap to begin with. Nowadays i only see set-bonuses that could help the player out in a fight, but not make it much more easy either. The (available) bonuses are all very well balanced in that regard. A great argument against my point would be to for example point out the +10% group mit jewelry captains can get but that's a very clear example of a piece of gear that's obviously way too overpowered to begin with. Luckily you would have to lose a huge amount of stats for it nowadays so it isn't that good anymore but yeah the devs should keep in mind to obviously not make absolutely crazy bonuses that are already insanely overpowered if they would happen to be used even in their own level cap. But this is basic game design and has nothing to do with this max level issue.

[Hephburz-2]

The fact that set bonus gear gets worse and worse overtime as stats increase is a trade-off good enough to balance itself. It automatically balances itself to higher level content. It automatically limits players in how many set bonuses they can take simultaneously aswell. All the devs have to do in this regard is to not make fights where someone barely ever get hits, as long as people need to survive to clear content, they will be hit with this balancing trade-off. Have some stat-checks in place and the set bonuses will balance themselves out. The devs don't have to change anything in how they make content. It would be horribly balanced content to begin with if you could do it without stat checks.

Well this is entirely inaccurate. We were reaching stat caps before the raid was even being released, and all we have done since is stack morale and/or mits, so you want them to introduce stat checks that ENCOURAGE morale stacking? Ok.

In this type of environment there is no question of being able to cap stats whilst wearing lower-level gear, so no, it doesn't equate as a trade-off to balance it out. Certain set bonuses remain extremely potent, even those that came from even the previous level cap, or are you suggesting we let YCaptains have 1minute Last Stand again? Content would absolutely have to be redesigned, things would absolutely become easier. Especially the further into an update you get and the crazier our stats become.

A great argument against my point would be to for example point out the +10% group mit jewelry captains can get but that's a very clear example of a piece of gear that's obviously way too overpowered to begin with. Luckily you would have to lose a huge amount of stats for it nowadays so it isn't that good anymore but yeah the devs should keep in mind to obviously not make absolutely crazy bonuses that are already insanely overpowered if they would happen to be used even in their own level cap. But this is basic game design and has nothing to do with this max level issue.

See above.

Oh, and OB reset is still entirely obtainable, it's the ToO set bonus, and by your own admission you recognise that certain setbonuses are OP and would need to either be changed or disabled, which creates some sort of two-tier hierarchy, and also requires extra dev time. The +10% captain mit jewellery was entirely fine for the era in which it was designed for, pre-essence gear, where having capped mitigations wasn't agiven, so +10% was not as wildly overpowered as it would be in the current environment.

[Pontin_Finnberry]

Disable the set bonus.

This the best way to go, but when level cap was 105 with Throne of the Dread Terror Raid, some players would use old gear just for set bonus, I never understood it and found it kinda stupid, cause you could easily finish the raid with level cap gear, why even use old stuff, its not much better, so i like they added a cap to set bonuses.