Who do Devs listen to for mastery/mit/morale changes and the like?

[Neinda]

So what else do you want at level cap? And why not create a thread to suggest it? (or talk about it on discord!)

There have been threads about making old content relevant. I believe it is a dead on arrival issue with SSG. I was just responding when people made comments about casual players getting to run around low level areas and festivals for fun while the raiders have suffered from lack of content. Different people have different definitions of casual is all and even though the game is huge, there is very little end game content for any play style because the old content has been tossed to the curb.

I tried that discord for a day. It is a bit loud and overwhelming with all the noise and hard to filter things to get to the useful information. While I may think discord is easier to use than the forums, the noise and chatter factor need some work before it is an easy place to gain information. Besides, how would posting an idea about end game there get shouted down less than here? And SSG does not want to have players participating in old content so discord will not change that idea. I believe the end game content that would be appreciated by all player types in game already exists, but until SSG decides to make it worthwhile we are stuck with the very limited content that is here now.

[TesalionLortus]

I believe the end game content that would be appreciated by all player types in game already exists, but until SSG decides to make it worthwhile we are stuck with the very limited content that is here now.

Well, I only need Gundabad geodes expanded to all of Middle-earth as a concept, for example, and tie it to XP gain/some rewards/cosmetics/fluff, and spread it out somewhat more, available to wider level ranges in some way or some of nodes cross-border. Alt or cap, it would find universal utility and make some good use of older zones whether 15 years old or 2 years old. MoL or some posters may say "gathering" is boring and not storied - well, how about players who only level up from crafting standing in one place (while grinding through craft levels, not from actual gathering alone, the nodes of which aren't really as varied nor interesting lore-wise in the first place) and those who complete same dailies/missions each day, closed off in same isolated spaces? But hey, said "boring" gathering would actually allow me to go, revisit and engage with any landscape wherever and run into something useful to collect/be able to progress my alt etc

So yeah, I agree the game could use things like that.

[Captain4152]

why is my post getting deleted I thought devs wanted us to interacted here?

[Vuldyn]

I tried that discord for a day. It is a bit loud and overwhelming with all the noise and hard to filter things to get to the useful information. While I may think discord is easier to use than the forums, the noise and chatter factor need some work before it is an easy place to gain information.

I don't want to get embroiled in this whole casuals vs raiders thing, but after reading through this forum thread, it's hard to argue that discord is less clear than the forums for finding good information. A well moderated discord is a wonderful way to acquire helpful information, while in other sections, allowing for easy chat and discussion. Sorry your discord experience was negative.

[auximenes]

For the sake of the game, I hope so. Discord is a far more appropriate medium for the sort of back and forth discussion/feedback we've enjoyed these past few months, and to lose that would be detrimental. In comparison, these forums are cumbersome to navigate and tend to move at a glacial pace. Excellent for late 2000s/early 2010s, but we've got better ways to do this now. I can't fathom the people who hear that devs are regularly interacting on a very public discord server and decide that, instead of seizing this opportunity and joining in (literally just google 'lotro ghyn' and find any of his videos, the discord is linked to in each one), they'd rather tear this down and shackle them to the woefully inadequate "official" forums.

/notsigned

Traditional forums are just fine for me. And again I don't think anybody is advocating that SSG stops interacting on Discord. The issue is that important new official information is not being shared on the ONLY OFFICIAL SSG medium.

Also, get off my lawn.

[Vuldyn]

Traditional forums are just fine for me. And again I don't think anybody is advocating that SSG stops interacting on Discord. The issue is that important new official information is not being shared on the ONLY OFFICIAL SSG medium.

Nothing official gets posted. Some Devs talk, but everything that actually happens in the game is always and only posted in the patch noted on the forums. All discussions seem to be hosted here. The only thing the devs do at their leisure is answer questions or concerns in their own way.

The hard fact is that many many people find these forums are very slow and painful to read/use, including a large majority of the high-tier endgame players, which is where class balance actually comes down to the wire. If that feedback is happening on a public discord and the devs want to read, and even ask clarifying questions, why shouldn't they?

[auximenes]

Nothing official gets posted. Some Devs talk, but everything that actually happens in the game is always and only posted in the patch noted on the forums. All discussions seem to be hosted here. The only thing the devs do at their leisure is answer questions or concerns in their own way. The hard fact is that many many people find these forums are very slow and painful to read/use, including a large majority of the high-tier endgame players, which is where class balance actually comes down to the wire. If that feedback is happening on a public discord and the devs want to read, and even ask clarifying questions, why shouldn't they?

I consider everything that an SSG employee says as 'official'. And you're absolutely wrong about everything being posted in the patch notes and discussion on the forums here. Prime example: the Captain revamp. Again, there's no complaint about SSG employees discussing anything on other fora but when those discussions don't get distilled and shared here on the only official outlet for information then some people are upset.

[Elmagor]

There have been threads about making old content relevant. I believe it is a dead on arrival issue with SSG. I was just responding when people made comments about casual players getting to run around low level areas and festivals for fun while the raiders have suffered from lack of content. Different people have different definitions of casual is all and even though the game is huge, there is very little end game content for any play style because the old content has been tossed to the curb.

I tried that discord for a day. It is a bit loud and overwhelming with all the noise and hard to filter things to get to the useful information. While I may think discord is easier to use than the forums, the noise and chatter factor need some work before it is an easy place to gain information. Besides, how would posting an idea about end game there get shouted down less than here? And SSG does not want to have players participating in old content so discord will not change that idea. I believe the end game content that would be appreciated by all player types in game already exists, but until SSG decides to make it worthwhile we are stuck with the very limited content that is here now.

Well come on. How much hate you have for raiders if you consider what they never play low level locations or festivals. Unlike you, other people doing every content in the game. You don't have time to adjust settings for discord, you don't have time to adjust your character for raid, but you have all time in the world to whine, cry and complain here about all other people doing all kind of stuff what they like. You can't and don't want to go deep into game - fine, you can play like you want to play. But why you complain what developers listen to players who know more about game then you?

[Neinda]

Well come on. How much hate you have for raiders if you consider what they never play low level locations or festivals. Unlike you, other people doing every content in the game. You don't have time to adjust settings for discord, you don't have time to adjust your character for raid, but you have all time in the world to whine, cry and complain here about all other people doing all kind of stuff what they like. You can't and don't want to go deep into game - fine, you can play like you want to play. But why you complain what developers listen to players who know more about game then you?

I don't dislike raiders. I don't dislike discord. I do dislike watching a game I have played for many years dwindle and bleed players for things that appear to be within the control of SSG. It does annoy me a bit to see people complaining that they need a new end game raid being fed to them on a continuous basis when SSG could make the old content relevant, and no one would ever have time to get bored. We have a whole world full of content and it has been shelved and tossed aside. Many of us would be very happy to participate in activities in the older content if it received just a tiny bit of love and attention. This might even free up some resources to work on some of the real problems in the game that are driving people elsewhere.

One would hope there is more to this game than working toward the goal of end game raiding at the exclusion of everything else. There is room in the game for all types of players and play styles. This is a big game with so many things that could entertain raiders and everyone else alike and offer appropriate challenges. No group or play style needs to be excluded or told to raid or go kill gray mobs in a starter area and be content. If the goal of SSG is to shift the game toward raids/raiders rather than casual players, they need to tell us.

There are many different communication methods that could and should be utilized, but the onus is on SSG to point people to them and endorse them. There are other discords on other servers out there who would also be happy to host SSG and the devs. More communications and more ideas from a variety of sources is always good and couldn't hurt. Should SSG listen to ideas and suggestions? Yes (within reason or at least a few suggestions.) Should they implement every idea out there? No, because what might make one person's game experience better would ruin things for the rest of the player base. For example: My idea to listen to input from everyone ruins things for those who exclusively raid and the suggestions from those who exclusively raid ruin things for someone who does not raid.

My question would be is why is this one discord deemed better than any other discord or forum out there? Why is it favored to the point where all other communication methods are considered unimportant? Not saying it is bad (it appears to be very helpful and post useful information), but what makes the views of the people in this discord better than all other discords, the forums and everything else LOTRO out there? What is the reason one play style is more important than anything else in game? Raiders are good for the game. Casuals are good for the game. And everyone else in between is good for the game. All of these play styles add to the player base and support of the game. I imagine it is an interesting challenge to balance a game that has so many different types of players. The more varied the player base the better so when one type moves on there are still people to keep the lights on.

[Ghyn]

My question would be is why is this one discord deemed better than any other discord or forum out there? Why is it favored to the point where all other communication methods are considered unimportant? Not saying it is bad (it appears to be very helpful and post useful information), but what makes the views of the people in this discord better than all other discords, the forums and everything else LOTRO out there? What is the reason one play style is more important than anything else in game? Raiders are good for the game. Casuals are good for the game. And everyone else in between is good for the game. All of these play styles add to the player base and support of the game. I imagine it is an interesting challenge to balance a game that has so many different types of players. The more varied the player base the better so when one type moves on there are still people to keep the lights on.

It seems to me like you have some misunderstandings about the Ghyniverse, so allow me to explain a bit:

- The server is not deemed better than other discords, but it is already an established big community server with lots of people in it, so it is easier to join this one instead of making or joining something smaller and new.

- Like you said, it does have very useful and extremely helpful information and tools to learn about the game. Easy access to screenshots of new items, trait lines, traceries for classes, stat goals for your characters, and live discussion about pretty much anything about the game.

- A lot of people have already expressed their reasons why they prefer discord over forums, and some people do prefer forums over discord. As said by Orion and multiple people who participate in the Ghyniverse; no official information gets put on the discord server before the forum, so I would just say to everyone that if you prefer to only use the forums then by all means that's something you can continue doing. There is bound to be some discussions with some devs on a big community server, so it's up to you if you choose to tag along on discord to see those discussions. You're still not going to lose out on official information if you prefer to only use the forums.

- I personally would love to see old instance content scaled for an update at some point and new rewards put into the content, so I really like your idea here, but it doesn't seem like this is something the devs have planned anytime soon. I think there's more interest in opening new landscape in Middle-Earth such as the exciting prospect of the Umbar update.

- One of the biggest misconceptions about the Ghyniverse is that it's run by/made for raiders. It is a community discord server that is created to help all players of the game, regardless of playstyle and skill/experience level. If you want to take a look, it is specified in the server rules thread on the top of all the text channels.

[cdq1958]

It seems to me like you have some misunderstandings about the Ghyniverse, so allow me to explain a bit:

- The server is not deemed better than other discords, but it is already an established big community server with lots of people in it, so it is easier to join this one instead of making or joining something smaller and new.

- Like you said, it does have very useful and extremely helpful information and tools to learn about the game. Easy access to screenshots of new items, trait lines, traceries for classes, stat goals for your characters, and live discussion about pretty much anything about the game.

- A lot of people have already expressed their reasons why they prefer discord over forums, and some people do prefer forums over discord. As said by Orion and multiple people who participate in the Ghyniverse; no official information gets put on the discord server before the forum, so I would just say to everyone that if you prefer to only use the forums then by all means that's something you can continue doing. There is bound to be some discussions with some devs on a big community server, so it's up to you if you choose to tag along on discord to see those discussions. You're still not going to lose out on official information if you prefer to only use the forums.

- I personally would love to see old instance content scaled for an update at some point and new rewards put into the content, so I really like your idea here, but it doesn't seem like this is something the devs have planned anytime soon. I think there's more interest in opening new landscape in Middle-Earth such as the exciting prospect of the Umbar update.

- One of the biggest misconceptions about the Ghyniverse is that it's run by/made for raiders. It is a community discord server that is created to help all players of the game, regardless of playstyle and skill/experience level. If you want to take a look, it is specified in the server rules thread on the top of all the text channels.

As someone who is a member that mostly lurks, I can second this.

[Saruman_Of_Numbers]

- One of the biggest misconceptions about the Ghyniverse is that it's run by/made for raiders. It is a community discord server that is created to help all players of the game, regardless of playstyle and skill/experience level. If you want to take a look, it is specified in the server rules thread on the top of all the text channels.

choice of moderators suggests differently...

[Neinda]

It seems to me like you have some misunderstandings about the Ghyniverse, so allow me to explain a bit:

- The server is not deemed better than other discords, but it is already an established big community server with lots of people in it, so it is easier to join this one instead of making or joining something smaller and new.

- Like you said, it does have very useful and extremely helpful information and tools to learn about the game. Easy access to screenshots of new items, trait lines, traceries for classes, stat goals for your characters, and live discussion about pretty much anything about the game.

- A lot of people have already expressed their reasons why they prefer discord over forums, and some people do prefer forums over discord. As said by Orion and multiple people who participate in the Ghyniverse; no official information gets put on the discord server before the forum, so I would just say to everyone that if you prefer to only use the forums then by all means that's something you can continue doing. There is bound to be some discussions with some devs on a big community server, so it's up to you if you choose to tag along on discord to see those discussions. You're still not going to lose out on official information if you prefer to only use the forums.

- I personally would love to see old instance content scaled for an update at some point and new rewards put into the content, so I really like your idea here, but it doesn't seem like this is something the devs have planned anytime soon. I think there's more interest in opening new landscape in Middle-Earth such as the exciting prospect of the Umbar update.

- One of the biggest misconceptions about the Ghyniverse is that it's run by/made for raiders. It is a community discord server that is created to help all players of the game, regardless of playstyle and skill/experience level. If you want to take a look, it is specified in the server rules thread on the top of all the text channels.

Ghyn, it is at the point where SSG needs to endorse the discord server in the same way they have endorsed and supported various streamers over the years. SSG holding back on recommending your discord doesn't help anything and just looks/feels wrong to some of us. The people stating raiders are the only ones who understand the game properly reflects poorly on the server. They are obviously only a small portion of your discord but they are very clear on their opinion of us lesser mortals.

Hopefully, SSG will one day recommend your discord as a proper place to obtain up to date information. I have never had an issue with the methods SSG uses to communicate. My issue is the secretive nature on the part of SSG in using discord. It is hard to trust a company that won't publish where information is available.

Thank you for what you have tried to put together for the LOTRO community. Hopefully it will continue to grow.

[Elmagor]

Ghyn, it is at the point where SSG needs to endorse the discord server in the same way they have endorsed and supported various streamers over the years. SSG holding back on recommending your discord doesn't help anything and just looks/feels wrong to some of us. The people stating raiders are the only ones who understand the game properly reflects poorly on the server. They are obviously only a small portion of your discord but they are very clear on their opinion of us lesser mortals.

Hopefully, SSG will one day recommend your discord as a proper place to obtain up to date information. I have never had an issue with the methods SSG uses to communicate. My issue is the secretive nature on the part of SSG in using discord. It is hard to trust a company that won't publish where information is available.

Thank you for what you have tried to put together for the LOTRO community. Hopefully it will continue to grow.

Ghyn not alone, here on Brandywine we have many different discord community teams who can share info with everyone

[Fadil]

)

Hopefully, SSG will one day recommend your discord as a proper place to obtain up to date information. I have never had an issue with the methods SSG uses to communicate. My issue is the secretive nature on the part of SSG in using discord. It is hard to trust a company that won't publish where information is available.

Fore god's sake, give it a rest.
They have always been extremely open about which discord servers some devs use.
They posted it in a thread you participated in, 8 months ago, so I know you read it/ know that.

Let me repost it:

October 15: OnnMacMahal:

"Hi everyone. Let’s get a few things straight.

As Cordovan has stated before, we don’t have the resources to host and moderate an official Discord server. That said, there are several public Discord servers where some developers watch feedback or interact with players. Both the ‘Ghyniverse’ and the ‘Lotro Community’ Discords have large numbers of active players and, along with the forums, are helpful tools for engaging with the player community."

https://forums.lotro.com/forums/show...33#post8161533

[Ghyn]

Ghyn, it is at the point where SSG needs to endorse the discord server in the same way they have endorsed and supported various streamers over the years. SSG holding back on recommending your discord doesn't help anything and just looks/feels wrong to some of us. The people stating raiders are the only ones who understand the game properly reflects poorly on the server. They are obviously only a small portion of your discord but they are very clear on their opinion of us lesser mortals.

Hopefully, SSG will one day recommend your discord as a proper place to obtain up to date information. I have never had an issue with the methods SSG uses to communicate. My issue is the secretive nature on the part of SSG in using discord. It is hard to trust a company that won't publish where information is available.

Thank you for what you have tried to put together for the LOTRO community. Hopefully it will continue to grow.

I can't force anyone to promote something they are not in control of, but of course I would be open to more of a co-op relationship, but it's not up to me. I'm happy with how the discord server is doing and it shouldn't be too hard to discover it since it's linked in every youtube video I make and I'm sure people are inviting their friends to it.

[Neinda]

Fore god's sake, give it a rest.
They have always been extremely open about which discord servers some devs use.
They posted it in a thread you participated in, 8 months ago, so I know you read it/ know that.

Let me repost it:

October 15: OnnMacMahal:

"Hi everyone. Let’s get a few things straight.

As Cordovan has stated before, we don’t have the resources to host and moderate an official Discord server. That said, there are several public Discord servers where some developers watch feedback or interact with players. Both the ‘Ghyniverse’ and the ‘Lotro Community’ Discords have large numbers of active players and, along with the forums, are helpful tools for engaging with the player community."

https://forums.lotro.com/forums/show...33#post8161533

Thank you. In my experience, differing points of view can come to together for some pretty amazing end results that make things better for those involved. Hopefully, the recent threads/discussions about how SSG communicates with the players base will result in a little bit of something for everyone to better their experience in information sharing concerning LOTRO. There are never too many ideas and every one of them has merit. Just like the game has all sorts of play styles, the player base communicates in different ways. Effective sharing of information can be a good and positive goal for SSG.

[Mirhaen]

And this is where I believe SSG misses the mark. Yes, they need to sell expansions but there needs to be players to buy those expansions. SSG cannot release content fast enough to keep the raiders challenged so they came up with a method to make all things old useless at end game. All of this started around Mordor and the first loot boxes. I could be wrong but I believe they went with the method of the longer it takes to get gear and weapon parts, the better.

To be fair, they did try to 'revive' some of the old instances via Featured Instances, which I think are level 100 and above. Trouble is I think rewards were not attractive enough, although I do see sometimes people asking for group on my server.

I personally do not know how it feels to be bored in the game as I seems have full plate all the time, and am sort of grateful when I can log and have time to just chat with people All classes on end level, plus alts on various levels, 6 houses, plus kin house, and I love to do instances even if locked, so that explains. I'm not even managing all I want, so I feel sorry when I miss some festival item for example. Only thing that I really don't enjoy and rarely do are missions, being so very grindy. I mean game has ever be grind for those working on virtues, deeds or specific items, just missions for me seem step to far, one I'm not willing to make.

I agree that it takes now longer to obtain some items, especially since we have RNG involved. I guess it is there to keep us busy but I really don't know a single person that is remotely happy or satisfied with this system. You can literally lose count of how many times you done instance in hope to obtain one particular item, and in the worst case scenario you may never get it while is relevant.

[Vuldyn]

I consider everything that an SSG employee says as 'official'. And you're absolutely wrong about everything being posted in the patch notes and discussion on the forums here. Prime example: the Captain revamp. Again, there's no complaint about SSG employees discussing anything on other fora but when those discussions don't get distilled and shared here on the only official outlet for information then some people are upset.

What changes got made to the game without being posted in dev notes or on to the forums first? Any conversation that happens on various discords is always sparked by something official said either here, in a dev diary, or on a stream, or at least coinciding with those things. We see what gets posted here, and discuss it, as we have the right to do. The devs also have the right to listen and engage with that discussion. What they are not obliged to do is come up with some summary of the discussion and post it here, that would be a waste of time and effort on their part. Though if they did, I am sure you would be very surprised at the VAST number of things that get suggested very strongly and convincingly that do not get listened to at all. At the end of the day, they can gather feedback from wherever they choose to, but they aren't making any announcements or anything anywhere else except the official channels.

[Neinda]

What changes got made to the game without being posted in dev notes or on to the forums first? Any conversation that happens on various discords is always sparked by something official said either here, in a dev diary, or on a stream, or at least coinciding with those things. We see what gets posted here, and discuss it, as we have the right to do. The devs also have the right to listen and engage with that discussion. What they are not obliged to do is come up with some summary of the discussion and post it here, that would be a waste of time and effort on their part. Though if they did, I am sure you would be very surprised at the VAST number of things that get suggested very strongly and convincingly that do not get listened to at all. At the end of the day, they can gather feedback from wherever they choose to, but they aren't making any announcements or anything anywhere else except the official channels.

When someone from SSG talks about LOTRO it is coming from someone who represents the company so whatever is said becomes official by default.

When something like the cappy changes are posted on the forums asking for input and SSG goes completely silent on the forums while discussing the changes with those on discord, it leaves people unhappy and feeling like their input does not matter.

Hopefully SSG will find a proper balance to all of this which will give devs access to the forums they prefer, but include the entire community in the information sharing.

[Vuldyn]

You're just not going to get all the community together in one place anymore. The fact that I had to relog into the forums 4 times to reply to this thread, my replying takes me to a whole different page, etc, means that I will never use the current forums as my main method of talking about the game. Maybe the new forums will change that, but I highly doubt it.