A big thank you to the devs for more customisation options for our characters.

[Neonisys]

Seriously good stuff, more options for characters benefits everyone and is wonderfully includive and a uniformally good move. Keep it up.

[choon_blaze]

Forcefuly taking away the classic look we had for the last 16 years is a good move in what world? It's especially risky since this is an older mmo carried by veteran players who are now leaving by the droves

[TesalionLortus]

Taking legacy things away isn't exactly wrong because games gotta evolve and that won't happen if they just prioritize some stubborn players clinging to outdated things. However... that's not exactly the case here since the old looks were not exactly graphically inferior in any significant way, and I say this as someone obsessed with graphics, and some of the old looks/shapes certainly can't be recreated with new ones, so it's a bit of a hit-and-miss situation - players who liked some of the old shapes are rightfully pissed because the least they could do was to try and recreate the old ones accurately

Now, face it with a hypothetical situation when new avatars are outright graphically superior with brand new models, polygons, animations and a whole different, better, modern feel to them - completely different situation and veteran or not, everyone would recognize said superiority

[Elmagor]

In recent months I talk with one ex-Lotro player, and trying motivate him go back and look how game changes in last 3 years. He download Lotro again, start creating new characters, facepalm and uninstal. Big thanks to devs!

[WhimsicalPacifist]

Inclusion is a wonderful thing. Hardcore Rohirrim kins will be faced with the prospect of including everyone now that origins have zero impact on character creation. And conversely I can have a bearded (maybe leprous? I haven't decided yet) albino princess of Rhun; sealed away in a tomb by her family who considered her an aberration. With the turmoil of Sauron's passing, she escaped from her living tomb and made her way to Bree.

True inclusion would be opening up to texture modding characters; see modding in FFXIV which goes as far as adding androgynous spears. You can make an avatar in Middle Earth and no one else is less immersed. It also opens up a great many pieces of clothing for textural enhancement. Skinny dipping hobbits would be a strict no-no.

[Fadil]

Forcefuly taking away the classic look we had for the last 16 years is a good move in what world? It's especially risky since this is an older mmo carried by veteran players who are now leaving by the droves

/chuckle

Veteran players arent leaving, let alone in big numbers.
I'm part of a kin of 600 players, with a lot of Veteran players, and none of them have even said 1 unhappy/ negative word about the new character options.

Its just a handful of people on the mbs, who feel the need to repeat their objections in every thread possible,
even when amidst 20 angry threads , one thread is positive.

Cant have that, can we.

[Varmintkiller]

In recent months I talk with one ex-Lotro player, and trying motivate him go back and look how game changes in last 3 years. He download Lotro again, start creating new characters, facepalm and uninstal. Big thanks to devs!

Just last week, I talked to twenty ex-LOTRO players, and they all downloaded it again because they love the new customization options so much. And also they voted me president of Bree. Thank you devs!

[Pontin_Finnberry]

Yeah more options are great, they did a great job with this and I can't wait see this for the other races, especially Hobbits cause they have a few issues that need fixing/updated, would be nice to no longer see my Hobbits head separate from the neck at times seeing clear through (been this way for many years). Anyway thanks to art team for updating the Race of Man.

[mr_underfoot]

i greatly appreciate the new sliders, my human toons look more unique and have more personality than ever!

and i will be way more appreciative once the plethora of bugs introduced by the changes get fixed XD

[Arnenna]

I second the thanks for the new character options for human characters. It's a good addition and much better represents the playerbase now. I'd like to add, that it would be even better if you reapply the old character option for those that like them, so they too can be represented in a way which is pleasing to them.

[choon_blaze]

/chuckle

Veteran players arent leaving, let alone in big numbers.
I'm part of a kin of 600 players, with a lot of Veteran players, and none of them have even said 1 unhappy/ negative word about the new character options.

Its just a handful of people on the mbs, who feel the need to repeat their objections in every thread possible,
even when amidst 20 angry threads , one thread is positive.

Cant have that, can we.

Doubtful. You must be playing on a tiny server in a kinship bubble then. On Evernight, tons of people have expressed their plans to leave since the inception of this weak update.

Seems to me that's the general consensus on the forums as well, there are already ongoing threads about the topic but people feel they need to make new threads because they could not accept their opinions are in the minority.

[mr_underfoot]

On Evernight, tons of people have expressed their plans to leave since the inception of this weak update.

i'm geniunely curious about this. can anyone good with numbers grok these graphs?--> http://lotrostats.gefallenehelden.de/r10.html

have logins gone down significantly since the update?

[Fadil]

Doubtful. You must be playing on a tiny server in a kinship bubble then. On Evernight, tons of people have expressed their plans to leave since the inception of this weak update.

I play on Evernight, never heard a single player express they intend to
leave over this, or heard much criticism of the charceters update
in /world.
Except from a few trolls, who also frequently express their ideas that women
are subpar creatures. Yes even Lotro has some 12 year old kiddie trolls.

[Trixie_Me]

Yes, thank you so much devs!!

[Arnenna]

Doubtful. You must be playing on a tiny server in a kinship bubble then. On Evernight, tons of people have expressed their plans to leave since the inception of this weak update.

Seems to me that's the general consensus on the forums as well, there are already ongoing threads about the topic but people feel they need to make new threads because they could not accept their opinions are in the minority.

I play on EN too, and I've not heard it. But if you have, I can guarantee you, that the vast majority of "plans to leave" are bluffs. Anyone feeling strongly about these new options would already be gone.

[Arglenn]

Anyone feeling strongly about these new options would already be gone.

Not true. There are people who try to remain hopeful and hold out for a change because they really like LOTRO and would like some things to stay intact to what they grew to love.


Personally, I'm at about the end of holding out here. But people like me uninstalling and leaving is probably a win for whoever made these options and those who praise them for it.

[TesalionLortus]

Not true. There are people who try to remain hopeful and hold out for a change because they really like LOTRO and would like some things to stay intact to what they grew to love.


Personally, I'm at about the end of holding out here. But people like me uninstalling and leaving is probably a win for whoever made these options and those who praise them for it.

Well, this is what I tried to say earlier. A lot of different kins and players out there, in this game that's so welcoming of all and all playstyles, and offering one of the most accessible levels of difficulty no less. One person's personal experience or kin does not the entire player base make, and I've seen my share of many different players, including the ones not belonging to kins or only sparsely vocal within their kins if at all. I mean, I guess any product should strive for solutions that make the largest number of players stay, so there is still some room for improvement going forward, and with some mindfulness shown - hopefully that hopefulness isn't lost and any such players won't end up giving up

[Arnenna]

Not true. There are people who try to remain hopeful and hold out for a change because they really like LOTRO and would like some things to stay intact to what they grew to love.


Personally, I'm at about the end of holding out here. But people like me uninstalling and leaving is probably a win for whoever made these options and those who praise them for it.

Just to be straight, players, any players, leaving the game, is never a win. Not for SSG, not for the players that remain.

This update is a hot topic, for sure, and that is totally because of a couple of options that have been made available. I don't think those options are going to go anywhere, and they are probably here to stay. I don't think SSG will be able to manage the fallout of removing said options, after introducing them, because some players objected to it. Imagine how that would look.

At my place of work, every employee in a role of senior management, must champion at least one company policy. I champion three. Procurement (because finance & budgets is my main role), Learning & Development (because I track all mandatory training), and diversity & Inclusion for all (because I like that we live in a diverse world). By all, it means all races, religions, ages, genders, abilitiy, sexuality etc. All of it. The company I work for is UK wide, very successful and has been in business for 150 years.

If I were to turn around and say, X group can't work here anymore, because current employees don't like it, the company would suffer greatly. Likewise, saying, that we can put them all in a separate room, where nobody has to look at them, will yield the same result (comparing to a toggle in game).

It would be commercial suicide at best, a courtroom at worst. That's not a mark that any company wants against them.

Most people who play the game, know this already. I doubt they are holding onto hope where there is very little likelihood of it.

[infinitewhimsy]

I play on EN too, and I've not heard it. But if you have, I can guarantee you, that the vast majority of "plans to leave" are bluffs. Anyone feeling strongly about these new options would already be gone.

I remember people saying the same thing during the RoR exodus. And during the BB exodus, etc...

It's also dishonest to suggest people leaving are only doing it because of the customization changes, it's one new and big straw on the camel's back. It compounds on top of lag, class revamps, predatory monetization, lack of content, etc... It's not at all unreasonable to suggest Lotro devs can or do alienate players when the history on it is clear.

In recent months I talk with one ex-Lotro player, and trying motivate him go back and look how game changes in last 3 years. He download Lotro again, start creating new characters, facepalm and uninstal. Big thanks to devs!

In some hypothetical world where Lotro gets new players, the new customization options can be off putting. For example, it's very strange that the overwhelming majority of options for hair styles for say a Rohirric character who should resemble something out of Anglo-Saxon history/myth, are instead African or Eastern looking. It's perplexing to say the least. That's independent of the quality of the new options too, which is particularly questionable at lower settings (some hair doesn't render at all and you see way too much scalp), and then you look at the more appropriate options and they are conversely very dated looking.

[TesalionLortus]

Most people who play the game, know this already. I doubt they are holding onto hope where there is very little likelihood of it.

No doubt some players seriously want such toggles or reversals, there are always some who do. But I don't think that would be anywhere near a great number. Feels like most just expect some level of quality from the devs and for any such additions to be served somewhat reasonably/attractively within the framework of the game, and that's certainly not impossible to deliver in some capacity, so a little different context here, with the game (just like we discussed earlier and when I said they don't need to go "bonkers" but can actually do both, and satisfy both ends)

[Arnenna]

I remember people saying the same thing during the RoR exodus.

Funnily enough, so do I. I also remember seeing a large proportion of them, returning.

In some hypothetical world where Lotro gets new players, the new customization options can be off putting. For example, it's very strange that the overwhelming majority of options for hair styles for say a Rohirric character who should resemble something out Anglo-Saxon myth, are instead African or Eastern looking. It's perplexing to say the least. That's independent of the quality of the new options too, which is particularly questionable at lower settings (some hair doesn't render at all and you see way too much scalp), and then you look at the more appropriate options and they are conversely very dated looking.

They are off-putting to you, and most likely to some others too, but some people will like them, as we have seen on the forum and by some of the new characters we are seeing in game. It doesn't matter how many styles of hair there are for a Rohirric character. You only need one to create the character. There are plenty left to choose from for visits to the barber too. Ignore the one's that don't interest you. There are many hairstyles at the barber since before the update, which didn't always suit either. I will agree though that the older hairstyles could do with some love and updating, to bring them in line, quality-wise with the new options.

[infinitewhimsy]

Its just a handful of people on the mbs, who feel the need to repeat their objections in every thread possible,
even when amidst 20 angry threads , one thread is positive.

It's weird because I was about to make this exact same post but in reverse. Everyone feels their respective needs, huh? Particularly to tell people about their respective needs. And they do it over and over.

Funnily enough, so do I. I also remember seeing a large proportion of them, returning.



They are off-putting to you, and most likely to some others too, but some people will like them, as we have seen on the forum and by some of the new characters we are seeing in game. It doesn't matter how many styles of hair there are for a Rohirric character. You only need one to create the character. There are plenty left to choose from for visits to the barber too. Ignore the one's that don't interest you. There are many hairstyles at the barber since before the update, which didn't always suit either. I will agree though that the older hairstyles could do with some love and updating, to bring them in line, quality-wise with the new options.

Yeah there were apologists for big battles and mounted combat too.

I can only speak for my own experience. I used to have a raiding kin that did multiple clears of 12 man raids each week during RoI. Exactly 1 player has come back from that group since then (and left again).

I don't doubt the update makes some people happy, but I don't think they are either the norm, or that their happiness is about the game but is rather some kind of political glee. In fact I think this kind of happiness would be just as joyful if not more if Lotro actually did manage to die (which is probably impossible) because they'd consider that them having the last word. It's hard to see any other kind of logic in these apologists. And they can and do say otherwise, of course, that's part of that logic.

[TesalionLortus]

For example, it's very strange that the overwhelming majority of options for hair styles for say a Rohirric character who should resemble something out of Anglo-Saxon history/myth, are instead African or Eastern looking. It's perplexing to say the least. That's independent of the quality of the new options too, which is particularly questionable at lower settings (some hair doesn't render at all and you see way too much scalp), and then you look at the more appropriate options and they are conversely very dated looking.

The dated looking options would need to be fixed, yes. And then there is also the previously raised matter of auto-generation with 90% chance to generate a darker skinned character, rarely white skinned, and how white skin tones aren't exactly as rich for choices, and such a footnote on the bar now. So yes, it's certainly perplexing and not well balanced. Plus the bug with white characters ears being utterly ugly covered in some weird darkness and rot

Yeah there were apologists for big battles and mounted combat too.

I can only speak for my own experience. I used to have a raiding kin that did multiple clears of 12 man raids each week during RoI. Exactly 1 player has come back from that group since then.

Still, these were brand new systems/type of instances, and both had a role in lore/story of the game. It doesn't take much to be an "apologist" for them, and even if some were not satisfied, it's not like worldbuilding suffered for some or anything like it. So I would compare them more to missions/delvings, which are kind of the same (albeit apparently better received), not the recent stir. (I mean, technically, though of course one could compare them in terms of a drama event that can cause a player to potentially quit)

[infinitewhimsy]

The dated looking options would need to be fixed, yes. And then there is also the previously raised matter of auto-generation with 90% chance to generate a darker skinned character, rarely white skinned, and how white skin tones aren't exactly as rich for choices, and such a footnote on the bar now. So yes, it's certainly perplexing and not well balanced. Plus the bug with white characters ears being utterly ugly covered in some weird darkness and rot

In an ideal world they'd be addressed before pushing such an update, but instead we get a very rushed and buggy update that hurts the game's aesthetic for....idk, to rile up a few political apologists to pretend they're talking about the game. Honestly the particulars barely matter to me at this point because there's a clear overall trend from the developers; at this point my last hope is for it to be revealed they were cheaping out on developing the game all this time and stalling with fluffs updates because they were focusing their resources on the new expansion which fixes everything from lag to classes to pvmp. But that hope is pretty flimsy, and I'm definitely the last one in my former Lotro cohort that still gives this game a second glance.

Still, these were brand new systems/type of instances, and both had a role in lore/story of the game. It doesn't take much to be an "apologist" for them, and even if some were not satisfied, it's not like worldbuilding suffered for some or anything like it. So I would compare them more to missions/delvings, which are kind of the same (albeit apparently better received), not the recent stir. (I mean, technically, though of course one could compare them in terms of a drama event that can cause a player to potentially quit)

I bring them up because they are excellent examples of both the developers being out of touch and the existence of forum warriors who defend anything, even (maybe especially) objectively awful inclusions to the game. Big Battles and Mounted Combat eviscerated the former Lotro playerbase, it might not be so dramatic now but current "updates" and persisting problems are slowly bleeding away those who remain. I don't suggest that the game will die of course, because as I've said there's always someone willing to defend the indefensible.

[TesalionLortus]

Big Battles and Mounted Combat eviscerated the former Lotro playerbase, it might not be so dramatic now but current "updates" and persisting problems are slowly bleeding away those who remain. I don't suggest that the game will die of course, because as I've said there's always someone willing to defend the indefensible.

Objectively, I guess the biggest offenders here would be Mounted Combat drifting (and how it affects lag) and these siege engine mechanics for Big Battles (some enjoyed those, but the system is certainly far from straightforward, grindy and convoluted). But I do think the game needs new things as well, certainly if they fit the setting and feel like a no-brainer in the setting, and to some of us such things were refreshing, even if they brought these problems. I can't imagine Rohan without mounted experience of combat and chasing after enemies, it would be like anti-thesis of Rohan and its plains, and very boring. (Which is a bit similar for me with boats, for Umbar, or at least, any of these huge coastal shorelines/bodies of water that they may start introducing going forward). But yeah, in theory, if there was some kind of a classic experience offered within Epic Battles then it could have been better (and the whole thing not structured in such a punishing way that if you move from a strategy game at the wall to fully dedicate yourself/group to these other objectives, bosses and what not... well, you're done for, if you make a silly strategy oversight).

But I guess this is where they miss the mark here. New things, refreshing things, or "going with the times" and what not (so like this avatar update) are needed. But can also be done in some more mindful ways too... so isn't just extremely one-sided. At least it isn't any danger with boats, because it's extremely doubtful they would do "boat combat," plus certainly they learnt from mounted combat so this wouldn't end up as drifting either but something that feels as natural/comfy as in any other game