Hidden Nuggets we see all the time...

[Beery]

The Player Versus Player crowd is FAR from a minority. There is a reason it has been an ever increasing focal point in MMORPGs - the people WANT it....

Rubbish! If a majority of people wanted it, it would be more common in games like SWG and even here in LotRO where PvP areas are even more deserted than the PvE areas.

'Far from a minority' implies that PvPers are a majority. That is clearly not the case. PvP fans are always claiming to be a majority, but it's obviously far from being true.

The fact is, most people who play these games are in it for PvE or for social reasons. Beating each other with sticks is something that only a very few can stand for long. The reason being that the following is the type of thing that goes on when people are allowed to start fighting each other in a game:

Two Lore Masters - "Darth Naydor" and "I'pwndjoo" - enter the Prancing Pony together. I'pwndjoo gets out his pet - a bear - and places it right on top of a minstrel. The minstrel moves out of the way and starts to play again. Darth Naydor starts performing all sorts of magic effects. Darth Naydor says to I'pwndjoo "Hey dude, like let's fight dude". I'pwndjoo says "Okay. No wait I have to get a buff dude. Hey, someone give me some food NOW! We wanna fight". No one in the inn responds to I'pwndjoo. Darth Naydor says "Hey let's see what we can get off the NPC" and gets a some stuff from Barliman while I'pwndjoo keeps moving his pet into everyone's face. Then they start talking about how uber each of their weapons are and then they agree to no deathblows. Then they start to fight. All hell breaks loose. One guy goes down and they both start talking again: "Oh you cheated", "No I didn't, you just suck", "You totally cheated you changed weapons on me you cheater". Then I'pwndjoo says "Jeez this inn sucks". Darth Naydor agrees: "Yeah let's get out of here dude I'm feeling gay being next to these minstrels". I'pwndjoo starts dancing around: "Hey, look at me, I'm a minstrel". "Come on dude let's go" says Darth Naydor, "I know a place where we can get some uber loot".
Then they leave, the bear disappears with them and everyone in The Prancing Pony feel like they're dumber than they were before the bozos entered. It takes half an hour for the effects of the bozos to wear off and for the game to start to feel like Middle Earth again

[Beery]

I can't seem to figure out how the poor Hobbit got in there...

If I recall correctly, it seems the cart tipped over and launched him into the hedge. It is a REALLY funny scene. I'm hoping there's some quest where we help him out, but I've done most of the Bree-Land quests so it seems he's stuck there for good.

[Beery]

And, I think, Tolkien would most certainly not scoff at people playing games (like chess) in a pub in Middle Earth. The point of the epic battles is to preserve what is good in the routinary, the provincial... all that the Shire represents.

Exactly. The more of that type of thing that can be injected into the game, the more it gets to the heart of what Tolkien was writing about and the more J.R.R. Tolkien would have liked it. When a player scoffs at the idea of boardgames or provincial activities like fishing, pie-eating and festivals in a LotR game it just shows how out-of-touch with Tolkien some players are.

[Crevo]

I can't believe it's taken me this long to find this thread!

I've been reading the FOTR again (for the upteenth time) and there's quite a bit that Sam and ole Ted Sandyman talk about that was put in with the Shores of Evendim update. Not only Hal Gamgee, but I think Sam mentions that Hal saw a walking tree up there, which of course is in that small camp across the lake.

Almost every time I play I find things that make me smile coming from the lore. And I've been playing since Alpha 3 .

I bet every single one of the folks working at Turbine must read through each sentence of the books and think, ok how can we add that in!

Love this game and LOVE how indepth they've created it! Thanks Turbine!

[djheydt]

There is also a walking tree north of Overhill; you have to rescue it from some spiders. That's been in all along.

[Berephon]

I can't believe it's taken me this long to find this thread!

I've been reading the FOTR again (for the upteenth time) and there's quite a bit that Sam and ole Ted Sandyman talk about that was put in with the Shores of Evendim update. Not only Hal Gamgee, but I think Sam mentions that Hal saw a walking tree up there, which of course is in that small camp across the lake.

Almost every time I play I find things that make me smile coming from the lore. And I've been playing since Alpha 3 .

I bet every single one of the folks working at Turbine must read through each sentence of the books and think, ok how can we add that in!

Love this game and LOVE how indepth they've created it! Thanks Turbine!

Crevo, djheydt . . . thank you very much for pulling this thread back on-topic. I was beginning to despair!

Crevo, when you mention the "walking tree" in the camp across the lake, are you referring to Longbough up in Evendim? If so, he is not actually Hal's walking tree. He's been hanging around Lake Evendim for a very long time. He *is*, however, an Ent in search of Entwives, which is still a lore-bit.

Personally -- and it is just my opinion, not lore-backed fact -- I believe that Hal's tree was actually an Entwife, not an Ent. I think Tolkien infers that when Treebeard mentions that he thinks the Entwives would like the Shire. (Which is also where we pulled in the Flowers of the Forest (name?) deed.)

[House_of_Dexter]

Crevo, djheydt . . . thank you very much for pulling this thread back on-topic. I was beginning to despair!

Crevo, when you mention the "walking tree" in the camp across the lake, are you referring to Longbough up in Evendim? If so, he is not actually Hal's walking tree. He's been hanging around Lake Evendim for a very long time. He *is*, however, an Ent in search of Entwives, which is still a lore-bit.

Personally -- and it is just my opinion, not lore-backed fact -- I believe that Hal's tree was actually an Entwife, not an Ent. I think Tolkien infers that when Treebeard mentions that he thinks the Entwives would like the Shire. (Which is also where we pulled in the Flowers of the Forest (name?) deed.)

I always suspected that tree was also an Entwive when I read it...

[auximenes]

If I recall correctly, it seems the cart tipped over and launched him into the hedge. It is a REALLY funny scene. I'm hoping there's some quest where we help him out, but I've done most of the Bree-Land quests so it seems he's stuck there for good.

It may have been removed, but the Hobbits there used to have a series of flavour-text sayings that described what happened. Seems as if the Hobbit tried to drive the cart, against his parents' wishes, and he lost control of it and ended up crashing and being flung into the hedgerow.

[Berephon]

It may have been removed, but the Hobbits there used to have a series of flavour-text sayings that described what happened. Seems as if the Hobbit tried to drive the cart, against his parents' wishes, and he lost control of it and ended up crashing and being flung into the hedgerow.

I was not aware of the color text being removed, but then that's not my domain (other than ediitng it.) If it was removed, then I may lobby to get it back. The scene was a fun one.

[Schildawg73]

Crevo, djheydt . . . thank you very much for pulling this thread back on-topic. I was beginning to despair!

Crevo, when you mention the "walking tree" in the camp across the lake, are you referring to Longbough up in Evendim? If so, he is not actually Hal's walking tree. He's been hanging around Lake Evendim for a very long time. He *is*, however, an Ent in search of Entwives, which is still a lore-bit.

Personally -- and it is just my opinion, not lore-backed fact -- I believe that Hal's tree was actually an Entwife, not an Ent. I think Tolkien infers that when Treebeard mentions that he thinks the Entwives would like the Shire. (Which is also where we pulled in the Flowers of the Forest (name?) deed.)

The Flowers of the Forest deed is my favorite lore nugget in the game. I felt it was a very bold stroke in injecting one of the biggest "unsolved mysteries" of Tolkien lore into the game. It was very well written, and came close to bringing a tear to my eyes.

I only have one gripe about it, though. I have talked to a number of people who have done the deed and don't even realize what it was about; many aren't aware of the mouse-over text in the deeds. Oh well, I guess the spoils go to the diligent.

Whenever I get uncover a new place, the first thing I always do is bring up the deed window and read the description in the deed. I find it tremendously enlightening to the flavor of the zone. Each deed description really helps in making each ruin not just "another ruin" in the zone.

[Berephon]

I only have one gripe about it, though. I have talked to a number of people who have done the deed and don't even realize what it was about; many aren't aware of the mouse-over text in the deeds. Oh well, I guess the spoils go to the diligent.

That deed had gone through a large transformation over time. It originally involved using Goldberry directly to discover the lore-bits. While that was definitely more lore-pleasing, in the end, mechanically, the standard deed format really did end up working better.

[Eothain]

Whenever I get uncover a new place, the first thing I always do is bring up the deed window and read the description in the deed. I find it tremendously enlightening to the flavor of the zone. Each deed description really helps in making each ruin not just "another ruin" in the zone.

Agreed. The mouse-over deed descriptions, and the person who wrote them, don't get nearly enough props. There's a wealth of great reading material in Evendim alone (which has so many deed-associated ruin and nature landmarks).

[Schildawg73]

That deed had gone through a large transformation over time. It originally involved using Goldberry directly to discover the lore-bits. While that was definitely more lore-pleasing, in the end, mechanically, the standard deed format really did end up working better.

I hope you have plans in the future to expand on the Ent-wives story. It seems like a logical quest to originate from Treebeard, when he makes it into the game.

BTW, I loved the Goldberry tie-in from Garth Agarwen. It added depth to the whole Red Maid encounter.

[Beery]

The Flowers of the Forest deed is my favorite lore nugget in the game. I felt it was a very bold stroke in injecting one of the biggest "unsolved mysteries" of Tolkien lore into the game. It was very well written, and came close to bringing a tear to my eyes...

Also note that 'Flowers of the Forest' is a Scottish folk song that is played at services of remembrance, funerals, and other occasions; many know the tune simply as "The Lament" which is played at Remembrance Day ceremonies to commemorate war dead. Tolkien was at the Somme with the 11th Lancashire Fusiliers, a battalion that suffered nearly 300 dead and wounded (a battalion in WW1 was usually around 800 to 1000 men) in the first two weeks of July 1916; his school friend, Rob Gilson, was among the 20,000 British troops killed on July 1 - the first day of the battle.

Also note that all the flowers found in the forest during this deed apear to be white lilies - the flower most connected with death. Whether or not this is meant to convey the idea that the entwives are dead I don't know, but whether it's intentional or otherwise there is a lot of symbolism connecting this particular quest with Tolkien's experiences in The Great War.

Another thing: the Lancashire Fusiliers also participated in the Battle of Minden, back in 1759. In this battle they (at that time they were the 20th Foot), along with the 51st Foot (King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry) and others, due to a mistake, advanced alone in column formation into a hail of fire from 60 French cannons and repulsed no fewer than 12 cavalry charges. The French commander said later that "he had seen on this day what had never before been seen and which was impossible of belief, a single column of infantry break through three lines of cavalry, and four brigades of infantry, ranked in order of battle, and tumble them to ruin'. During their advance the soldiers had picked wild roses and put them in their caps. Afterwards on 'Minden Day' the soldiers of these regiments (including Tolkien's) were (and still are) permitted to wear roses in their caps. Perhaps not really relevant except for a tenuous flower connection, but interesting.

[auximenes]

I was not aware of the color text being removed, but then that's not my domain (other than ediitng it.) If it was removed, then I may lobby to get it back. The scene was a fun one.

I haven't been through that gate in a while, but I seem to remember being that I was disappointed the last time I did run by there, because their text was gone.

[Berephon]

I haven't been through that gate in a while, but I seem to remember being that I was disappointed the last time I did run by there, because their text was gone.

Hmm, if you happen by there again sometime and notice that all of the "actors" are still there, but the text isn't running, bug it. If the cart and all the NPCs are still there, the text should definitely still be running.

[Enmu]

All of the lands in the game are physically connected to one and other with no load screens between them except for Ered Luin which is isolated.

I think the reason Ered Luin is isolated because you can't kill the (innocent)animals there. You can kill them everywhere else though. Could easily be wrong but makes some semblance of sense.

[atteSmythe]

I think the reason Ered Luin is isolated because you can't kill the (innocent)animals there. You can kill them everywhere else though. Could easily be wrong but makes some semblance of sense.

Ered Luin is isolated because there's a big chunk of land between it and the Shire that isn't in the game yet. Take a look at the stable routes from Duillond to see the gap between the Blue Mountains and the Shire.

Also, the animals, by and large, can definitely be killed...just not by elves!

[LordRingz]

I have 3 nuggets I like:

1. Someone already mentioned the bashed-in door at the house in Crickhollow, but did not mentioned the dropped cloak on the doorstep. This is right from FotR, one of the Nazgul dropped it there when leaving the house.

2. Just noticed this - the trail of broken fences (broken by the Black Riders) leading from the gate to Buckland to the house at Crickhollow - the reason there are animals wandering everywhere.

3. Don't know if this was intentional - but the Captain Trotter in Trestlebridge shares his name with Tolkein's "original" name for Strider during early iterations of the book. (and Frodo's original name was Bingo!), this is from the History of Middle Earth.

Great job with all the detail, Turbine! Keep up the good work, it IS very much appreciated!

[Berephon]

I have 3 nuggets I like:

1. Someone already mentioned the bashed-in door at the house in Crickhollow, but did not mentioned the dropped cloak on the doorstep. This is right from FotR, one of the Nazgul dropped it there when leaving the house.

2. Just noticed this - the trail of broken fences (broken by the Black Riders) leading from the gate to Buckland to the house at Crickhollow - the reason there are animals wandering everywhere.

3. Don't know if this was intentional - but the Captain Trotter in Trestlebridge shares his name with Tolkein's "original" name for Strider during early iterations of the book. (and Frodo's original name was Bingo!), this is from the History of Middle Earth.

Great job with all the detail, Turbine! Keep up the good work, it IS very much appreciated!

Good eye in 1 and 2!

I don't believe Captain Trotter was actually named after the former Strider (I didn't name him, so I can't say), but I'll count it anyway since you knew that lore-bit. Also, were you aware that the original Trotter was a hobbit disguised as a Man? He was quickly changed to an actual Man, as the former concept was obviously not a great one. What I love best is when Tolkien said in one of his letters that the hobbits had just met a mysterious stranger in Bree . . . he didn't know who he was, but just felt that he was very important. Understatement of the century!

[Whitestones]

The first time I played in Ered Luin as a Dwarf, I was amazed to watch Gandalf and Thorin arguing about getting a Burgler from the Shire. Loved it!

The first time I was addressed by a Dwarf saying "At your service - yours and your family's!" I was totally blown away by that single reference from The Hobbit.

Honestly, there are literally tons of direct lore references in this game that just please me to no end. Good job all!

My two coppers... *plink*plink*

[phaelan2]

Good eye in 1 and 2!

I don't believe Captain Trotter was actually named after the former Strider (I didn't name him, so I can't say), but I'll count it anyway since you knew that lore-bit. Also, were you aware that the original Trotter was a hobbit disguised as a Man? He was quickly changed to an actual Man, as the former concept was obviously not a great one. What I love best is when Tolkien said in one of his letters that the hobbits had just met a mysterious stranger in Bree . . . he didn't know who he was, but just felt that he was very important. Understatement of the century!

Was that Aragorn or Faramir? I know in his letters that he said Faramir was an unplanned character:

"A new character has come on the scene (I am sure I did not invent him, I did not even want him, though I like him, but there he came walking into the woods of Ithilien): Faramir, the brother of Boromir – and he is holding up the 'catastrophe' by a lot of stuff about the history of Gondor and Rohan (with some very sound reflections no doubt on martial glory and true glory): but if he goes on much more a lot of him will have to be removed to the appendices — where already some fascinating material on the hobbit Tobacco industry and the Languages of the West have gone. (Letters 65, written to Christopher in 1944)"

[wrye]

My dog leaves hidden nuggets in my shoes.

[Dukayn_]

Congratulations for proving that IQs do not necessarily have to be above zero.

[billclinton]

Exactly. The more of that type of thing that can be injected into the game, the more it gets to the heart of what Tolkien was writing about and the more J.R.R. Tolkien would have liked it. When a player scoffs at the idea of boardgames or provincial activities like fishing, pie-eating and festivals in a LotR game it just shows how out-of-touch with Tolkien some players are.

Right - remember that the Lord of the Rings was mostly about the goodness and innocence of simple folk, the Hobbits, and less about war and the triumph of the returning king. It isn't an action book, it is a dramatic epic.