Hey Rask -- couple questions about Durchest

[rawlingsst7]

This is a question that's been bugging me for some time, mostly as it applies to BG/Durchest and his Cleave attack, which as I understand it is frontal aoe/melee/distributed/3-target max. It may apply to other distributed attacks but AFAIK Cleave is the only one that's specifically melee damage and not tactical.

1. Can Cleave Miss or be B/P/E'd?

1a. If so, how is the damage calculated? If persons A, B, C are the targets of Cleave, and A & B both Parry the attack, does person C take 100% (triple) damage as if he were the only recipient of the attack, or does person C take the reduced/distributed 33% damage?

Mostly I'm trying to gauge the value/risk of +Miss Chance debuffs while Disable is on the fritz.


2. "Boot to the Face" -- is there a trigger behind this attack? We've had a couple of occasions being a hair's breadth from a hard mode kill only to see him turn and one-shot a rune-keeper with this for no apparent reason. It's funny (granted, not as funny as the Blind One drop-kicking a dwarf into a vortex) but kinda frustrating as well.


p.s. I love how "Devastating Melee Attack" is Durchest's default swipe to the point of 97% of his attacks being DMA's. For the longest time we thought these were just devastating criticals of other attacks!

[vitamin-f]

1. From my experience, the Great Cleave can be B/P/E'd and it's still distributed equally. It's annoying when someone who has the -100% debuff loses it due to B/P/E twice and the person you want tanking it then gets the debuff. I haven't personally noticed a miss, but I'd assume he can miss. Personally, because swapping tanks in and out due to the debuff is more annoying than just having 2 people keep the debuff and 1 continually tank it, I prefer less B/P/E on all but the tank and less miss chance on Durchest, but that's harder on healers.

2. Boot to the Face seems random to us, though if you're far enough away from where the tanks are, he doesn't seem to boot you. He doesn't run halfway across the room, for example. I've never seen the BO drop kick anyone into a vortex, but that would be highly amusing.

However, I'll leave it up to Rask to verify as he may.

Also, Devastating Melee Attack seems to be pretty much all the Lt. does to me when I tank him, too.

I have one question for Rask about BG too, and I'll mooch off your thread (if you don't mind):

When doing the Twins Hard-mode, it seems that each time someone dies, eye frequency increases. If nobody dies, there's hardly any people who get eyes. Is that true or are we crazy?

[whatever76543]

No Idea on cleave i am as clueless as you but I know for a fact he will not boot you if your not in melee range so tell those RKs to stop their dang auto attack

[Sylux14]

Boot To the Face.


Someone likes The Frantics' Ti Kwan Leep/Last Will and Temperament skits!





As for the topic, I have only been to Durchest a few times, so I have little knowledge on the subject, but AFAIK, Cleave can only be distributed, eventually being absorbed (I would assume) if enough people are in front of him. The problem most raids I have been on seem to have with him is him critting the tank three times in a row, and it happens so fast that the healers cannot heal soon enough to save the tank/the tank is down far enough it kills him.

[Raskolnikov]

I actually didn't have any direct involvement in creating the AI/Skills/Effects for any of the DG instances. The instance team handled that on their own.

1. Can Cleave Miss or be B/P/E'd?

When a skill is created the designer is able to choose if they want to allow that skill to be Blocked and/or Parried and/or Evaded and/or Miss on a skill-by-skill basis. For this skill specifically, it cannot Miss or be B/P/E'd.

1a. If so, how is the damage calculated? If persons A, B, C are the targets of Cleave, and A & B both Parry the attack, does person C take 100% (triple) damage as if he were the only recipient of the attack, or does person C take the reduced/distributed 33% damage?

Good question, I had to ask an Engineer about this one. The way it works is that Person C takes the reduced/distributed 33% damage. Which makes sense because the intention of this mechanic is "Quick! Everyone get close!", and it would be unfortunate/frustrating if everyone got close like they were supposed to only to have half the characters B/P/E the attack while the remaining half take double the damage they were expecting.

2. "Boot to the Face" -- is there a trigger behind this attack? We've had a couple of occasions being a hair's breadth from a hard mode kill only to see him turn and one-shot a rune-keeper with this for no apparent reason. It's funny (granted, not as funny as the Blind One drop-kicking a dwarf into a vortex) but kinda frustrating as well.

Nope, there doesn't appear to be any special triggers. There's a range requirement and cooldown, but that's it.

p.s. I love how "Devastating Melee Attack" is Durchest's default swipe to the point of 97% of his attacks being DMA's. For the longest time we thought these were just devastating criticals of other attacks!

The instance team was bumping into problems using the base 'auto-attack' skills that most monsters use, so they went ahead and created a suite of instance-only skills they can use for some of their bosses 'auto-attack' skills. Glad it's working out!

When doing the Twins Hard-mode, it seems that each time someone dies, eye frequency increases. If nobody dies, there's hardly any people who get eyes. Is that true or are we crazy?

Oof, I really don't know. I'd say try asking in the Instances forum and maybe Amlug can provide an answer.

[TheFrank]

Stuff

Thank you for clarifying some of the mechanics of this fight!

[rawlingsst7]

When a skill is created the designer is able to choose if they want to allow that skill to be Blocked and/or Parried and/or Evaded and/or Miss on a skill-by-skill basis. For this skill specifically, it cannot Miss or be B/P/E'd.

Good to know, thanks! Our LMs will feel better about throwing around all the +Miss Chance they can now.

[wyldcyde]

Oof, I really don't know. I'd say try asking in the Instances forum and maybe Amlug can provide an answer.

tell amlug to come out of his cave... we miss him.

thanks for answers rask.

yeah miss chance just doesnt have that much value imo... attack speed debuffs are still good at least. Will be nice when our debuffs work properly again.

[Hudson7]

When a skill is created the designer is able to choose if they want to allow that skill to be Blocked and/or Parried and/or Evaded and/or Miss on a skill-by-skill basis. For this skill specifically, it cannot Miss or be B/P/E'd.

Good question, I had to ask an Engineer about this one. The way it works is that Person C takes the reduced/distributed 33% damage. Which makes sense because the intention of this mechanic is "Quick! Everyone get close!", and it would be unfortunate/frustrating if everyone got close like they were supposed to only to have half the characters B/P/E the attack while the remaining half take double the damage they were expecting.

First off, thanks for the post!

But I'm a bit confused by these 2 answers as they seem to contradict each other. First answer says that cleave can't be BPE'd or miss but the second one states that you can

[Raskolnikov]

But I'm a bit confused by these 2 answers as they seem to contradict each other. First answer says that cleave can't be BPE'd or miss but the second one states that you can

The second one is meant to answer: "What if a skill could be BPE'd, how would the split damage work then?"

[Hudson7]

Thanks! I thought that might be the case but wanted to make sure.

[vitamin-f]

Thanks again, Rask.

One more question... (for now, heh):

The Devastating Melee Attack, since this is a new/different attack than the prior Devastating criticals, would those attacks be affected by gear that procs a debuff for -50% devastate damage?

[Hudson7]

The Devastating Melee Attack, since this is a new/different attack than the prior Devastating criticals, would those attacks be affected by gear that procs a debuff for -50% devastate damage?

That should be easy enough to test, but sadly I believe most of those items are armor pieces and as such I don't have enough radiance to cover for the loss and still survive the fight.

[vitamin-f]

That should be easy enough to test, but sadly I believe most of those items are armor pieces and as such I don't have enough radiance to cover for the loss and still survive the fight.

Well, I have enough rad to have 0 dread until the last dread increase occurs in Hard Mode before I have to swap in rad pants (Manadhbadanir for the proc). Yes, I'm the Guardian.

It's just hard to gauge easily because my combat log is so spammed with HoTs that, during the fight, it's difficult for me to eye during the fight. Cstats is useful, and so is looking at the combat log saved in a file after the fight, but it doesn't really tell me *when* the proc is on the boss so I can compare. The combat logs also don't tell us when it's a crit, or a devastate crit, and I really, really wish it did.

[UF001]

The Devastating Melee Attack, since this is a new/different attack than the prior Devastating criticals, would those attacks be affected by gear that procs a debuff for -50% devastate damage?

The easy answer to this is no.

Durchest's Devastating Melee Attack is not a "devastate" by the usual lotro definition. If you look through your combat log, you'll NEVER see the word "devastate" ANYWHERE other than a boss fight - not even if you devastate with Heartseeker for 14,000 damage. The reason for this is that critical/devastate damage is not labeled in our combat logs. All you will see is "you wound such-and-such with Heartseeker for 14,000 points of Whatever damage". The same is true for all damage received - there is no designation of whether or not the boss "crit" an attack on you.

In other words, Devastating Melee Attack will be called as such in your combat log if it hits you for 1 damage or 10,000 damage. It is not because Durchest has a 100% devastate chance, it's simply the name of the skill.

[vitamin-f]

The easy answer to this is no.

Durchest's Devastating Melee Attack is not a "devastate" by the usual lotro definition. If you look through your combat log, you'll NEVER see the word "devastate" ANYWHERE other than a boss fight - not even if you devastate with Heartseeker for 14,000 damage. The reason for this is that critical/devastate damage is not labeled in our combat logs. All you will see is "you wound such-and-such with Heartseeker for 14,000 points of Whatever damage". The same is true for all damage received - there is no designation of whether or not the boss "crit" an attack on you.

In other words, Devastating Melee Attack will be called as such in your combat log if it hits you for 1 damage or 10,000 damage. It is not because Durchest has a 100% devastate chance, it's simply the name of the skill.

You know, while that seems logical, some of the way things are, ah, put together in this game have left me to always be skeptical.

[Raskolnikov]

Thanks again, Rask.

One more question... (for now, heh):

The Devastating Melee Attack, since this is a new/different attack than the prior Devastating criticals, would those attacks be affected by gear that procs a debuff for -50% devastate damage?

Nope. That's just the name of the skill, "devastating melee attack". It's not actually getting a Devastating Critical each time it hits.

[gildhur]

Nope. That's just the name of the skill, "devastating melee attack". It's not actually getting a Devastating Critical each time it hits.

Could it maybe get renamed to avoid such confusion in the future?

[Deusdictum]

Nope. That's just the name of the skill, "devastating melee attack". It's not actually getting a Devastating Critical each time it hits.

Could it maybe get renamed to avoid such confusion in the future?

If they weren't trying to confuse players, they would call all large resource nodes "Bountiful" instead of Rich/Heavy... So, I'm not too hopeful.

[gildhur]

If they weren't trying to confuse players, they would call all large resource nodes "Bountiful" instead of Rich/Heavy... So, I'm not too hopeful.

Yeah, consistency has never been a strong suit in this game.

[Raskolnikov]

If you guys want, pick a suggested replaced for "devastating" and I'll change the skill(s). The format is "a [ADJECTIVE] melee attack".

[auximenes]

ravaging
ruinous
destructive
overwhelming

[Majesto]

vicious
wicked
concussive

[aleczander]

vicious gets my vote

[SGWB]

annihilating, calamitous, cataclysmic, catastrophic, crushing, deadly, destructive, disastrous, dire, fatal, grievous, overwhelming, ruinous

I like "cataclysmic" or "ruinous"