So the up coming new class is Corsair?

[TesalionLortus]

Well, yeah, I actually hope the new class is also a new man race, because otherwise what exactly? "Corsair" dwarves and hobbits? Elves? Hardly makes sense and if they're going to make something like a Corsair-based class they would need some intro narrative like with Stout-axe rather than lamely drop you at the beginning of the game in Eriador far from sea but you're sea based as origins. Pretty off and inorganic.

I didn't say in Gondor in particular, the game in general has plenty of female guards which neither makes sense lore-wise nor from common sense. It's a game thing.

No, it's not. It's a game lore and consistent creative/adaptation decision. The female ones are limited to Breelanders and Beorning lands, mostly, if you haven't noticed. This is not just some random BS.

Go on, tell me again how being suspicious of the random dude from Harad and his unknown purposes and intentions would be 'bigotry', racial profiling or whatever despite it being wartime and him being from a decidedly hostile people who were aligned with the Big Bad. I could use a laugh. It doesn't seem to register with you that it isn't a normal situation, even at the start of the game things are super tense in some places and your guy's from the wrong side of the tracks, so to speak.

Sure, I can repeat it for X time: I was talking journey pre-war (you know, there is something like time skip, pretty much happens for the Stout-axe) and they would try to keep a low profile which may work because populace/movement control in such setting isn't exactly as efficient as today, especially if you are careful, able to take care of yourself and don't go into wrong places.

Because you did say that

There was never friendship with the Haradrim, remember? Has it not occurred to you that they didn't much like being colonised and forced to accept rule from Gondor?

This isn't even remotely like Rome and Greece (not that the Greeks were very happy about that, anyway) because Rome adopted Greek culture and its language, among the educated classes, and benefited greatly from it. All Gondor seems to get is endless trouble because the Haradrim are fierce, proud, warlike and chafe against foreign rule. What it reminds me of more is how folks in North Africa in the colonial era didn't take kindly to foreign rule and rebelled repeatedly.

I meant more like smaller, local political games of Asia Minor played between Greeks and Persians, or something like a boiling pot of the Crusade lands. No, it's not far-fetched that there could have been a small faction of the Haradrim who sided with Gondor that one time. (And they didn't even need to be motivated by any friendship at first, just realpolitiks)

And there you go again. It's a no-man's-land between two warring sides and it's been that way for a very long time, and it's relatively close to Mordor so it would be normal for that to be watched and patrolled and in this case, *possibly* bolstered with some fantasy extras because that *might* be a worthwhile investment for Sauron to make if it'd keep the Gondorians from spying on the Harad border. I didn't say "fields of wights", so don't exaggerate. I was thinking more of Watchers plonked on top of hills here and there and maybe some evil spirits to put the frighteners on people (so the place feels creepy and horrible and people don't want to be there), not an Angmar style line of death or a wight under every rock. As for maintenance, do evil statues need maintenance? Do wights? Not hardly. But fine, the thing with the crebain from earlier would be enough to make the point.

Also LOL since the game actually does treat Angmar like it's outright Mordor when probably it should simply look more like Glen Coe on a bad day (gloomy and sinister with an oppressive air), and I wasn't suggesting anything as dramatic as game-Angmar is...

What you call no-man-land might have included some actual life and even factions, at least for some time, until the final decline.

I really don't see much problem for Sauron if one guy reaches Gondor or even comes back with some goods or whatever, as long as the actual regime at home in most populated key areas has a good grip on its people and is able to eliminate any actual troublemakers and rebels. It's no different than Sauron not having much problem with that one Stout-axe slave giving him a slip, you know... and bah, that was in Mordor itself, and we're talking about Harad or Rhun here, which aren't under his direct control. I really don't see him putting logistical effort to secure any of these borders like that - primarily, because it would also create inconveniences for locals/their marching armies/raiders who might want to harass Westerners, plus this is kinda contradictory to the entire premise in the first place - he wants them to yarn for conquest of Gondor, for its riches and its spoils, to take these lands. Not... feel so isolated from Gondor, with scary scary border that they fear to even cross, that their yarning for conquest would be totally mute, because how does it even make sense to yarn for conquest of new Western lands when the general rule is you're done for if you even set foot there. And the logistics wouldn't be some walk in the park because yes, even for these Watching-stones and some weight fields, you would need skilled experts to control these all the time (so it doesn't hurt your guys or armies) and since that's Mordor level of sorcery it's not something locals could take care of themselves

[VanguardIV]

Yes. But even something that plays like a "fencer" or a "duelist" would be neat.


To give a "Star Wars" analogy: the Cappy and the Guard pretty much play like "Darth Vader." Slower, clunkier moves - not very stylized. The Champ is less focused, all over the place (like most Prequel Jedi, General Grievous, etc.).

I'd be looking for a "Count Dooku"- more of a flare but focused, deadly strikes (*he was the exception in combat style in the prequels). That character pretty clearly was inspired by older film villains as those in the Errol Flynn movies, the mustache-twirler. So I very much have the original film swashbucklers in mind also. Those fights were often faster-paced. Of course, "The Princess Bride" had a blast parodying it

So I'd want a 2-handed combat option - without it negatively affecting attack duration - which would give that class a role / advantage versus, say, the Guard in 2-handed red-line mode.

Cheers!

Since you mentioned count dooku, i'm thinking a serious of attacks that target specific parts of the opponent that don't deal much dps until you finishing with a final incapacitating blow...I'm sold haha. And I'd appreciate if SSG, moving forward, continue to make more distinct animations for the skills. Really helps with the Brawler in both the flashiness and knowing which skill it is by the animation used.

Hmm...there's this greatsword I recall used during Han China, the Zhanmaijian, or they could use the Guandao but that'd be more like a spear/halberd.

Though since we're heading close to Harad, they could experiment with all sorts of Eastern or Asian weaponry.

[Elebraen]

Since you mentioned count dooku, i'm thinking a serious of attacks that target specific parts of the opponent that don't deal much dps until you finishing with a final incapacitating blow...I'm sold haha. And I'd appreciate if SSG, moving forward, continue to make more distinct animations for the skills. Really helps with the Brawler in both the flashiness and knowing which skill it is by the animation used.

Hmm...there's this greatsword I recall used during Han China, the Zhanmaijian, or they could use the Guandao but that'd be more like a spear/halberd.

Though since we're heading close to Harad, they could experiment with all sorts of Eastern or Asian weaponry.

LOL, I'm all for the atlatl.

[Radhruin_EU]

Well, yeah, I actually hope the new class is also a new man race, because otherwise what exactly? "Corsair" dwarves and hobbits? Elves? Hardly makes sense and if they're going to make something like a Corsair-based class they would need some intro narrative like with Stout-axe rather than lamely drop you at the beginning of the game in Eriador far from sea but you're sea based as origins. Pretty off and inorganic.

It'd be 'pretty off and inorganic' to have Haradrim strolling around Bree at all, given all the obstacles to that happening and how it's an out-of-the-way place. As per your earlier efforts which amounted to "it just happens because I need it to happen", and never mind that it'd be wildly improbable even in the game's version of things. Seems like your stance on stuff like this is no more than if something's not impossible, it's therefore 100% okay.

No, it's not. It's a game lore and consistent creative/adaptation decision. The female ones are limited to Breelanders and Beorning lands, mostly, if you haven't noticed. This is not just some random BS.

I've seen you make excuses for randomness before but this takes the biscuit, trying to dress up such an obvious game trope as 'lore'.

Sure, I can repeat it for X time: I was talking journey pre-war (you know, there is something like time skip, pretty much happens for the Stout-axe) and they would try to keep a low profile which may work because populace/movement control in such setting isn't exactly as efficient as today, especially if you are careful, able to take care of yourself and don't go into wrong places.

Pre-war for who? I pointed out that things were already bad around Gondor (as per what Boromir says at the Council of Elrond) and it was well-known that the Easterlings and 'cruel Haradrim' (to use Boromir's phrase) were allied with Sauron. It's simply not possible to skip back past that entirely for a character who's a Man because Gondor had been having trouble ever since Sauron returned to Mordor more than eighty years before. And Aragorn's raid on Umbar when he was in his Thorongil phase had been nearly forty years before, so you know full well that Haradrim of one sort or another had been attacking Gondor for decades. It had only recently blown up into full-scale war (with the Witch-king & Co. trying to force their way across the Anduin at Osgiliath) but nobody would be at all relaxed about random Haradrim dudes turning up out of the blue at any time that would be useful to your would-be back-story.

What you call no-man-land might have included some actual life and even factions, at least for some time, until the final decline.

Which is presented by Tolkien as a no-man's-land ('debatable and desert'). Former borderlands that had been untenable for a long, long time and where Gondor had been evidently unable to prevent Haradrim armies marching across it to (for example) cross the river Poros and go on to attack southern Ithilien. There's an archaic usage of the word 'desert' that means somewhere that's wild, uninhabited and uncultivated so what that phrase 'debatable and desert' strongly implies is a land that's under nobody's control and where nobody lives, so it's gone back to a state of nature. So by implication it's not meant to have had actual life for a long time. Some sort of military presence, sure, but nobody actually living there. And contested border areas like that are notoriously dangerous to cross.

It's no different than Sauron not having much problem with that one Stout-axe slave giving him a slip

You're doing the just-one-guy thing again. As before, it's a multiplayer game with grouping, there logically have to be at least *some* more Stout-axes around for you to potentially group up with. The same would go for your guy from Harad.

And the logistics wouldn't be some walk in the park because yes, even for these Watching-stones and some weight fields, you would need skilled experts to control these all the time (so it doesn't hurt your guys or armies) and since that's Mordor level of sorcery it's not something locals could take care of themselves

Like I said, fine, stick to the crebain as that'd be more of an 'ordinary' level of sorcery.

[TesalionLortus]

As per your earlier efforts which amounted to "it just happens because I need it to happen", and never mind that it'd be wildly improbable even in the game's version of things. Seems like your stance on stuff like this is no more than if something's not impossible, it's therefore 100% okay.

But if it's possible and explained in more detail.. then yes, it is ok, especially that what we're talking about here is a race in an MMO. Haradrim in Bree given proper context/backstory with some time skips along his journey, kinda like they did with Boromir, so we can see some of the difficulties along the way - would be a stronger narrative setup than what's there for these soulless hobbit Loremasters, Brawlers or even a Stout-axe race (which is just a giant cut between escape from Barad Dur and Ered Luin, with a terrible "nevermind how I managed to give them a slip through the Black Gate!")

I've seen you make excuses for randomness before but this takes the biscuit, trying to dress up such an obvious game trope as 'lore'.

Show me female guards all over Middle-earth in Gondor, Rohan and Dale and then we can talk about generic "obvious" tropes. As it stands, it's a calculated creative choice as consistent part of the world.

but nobody would be at all relaxed about random Haradrim dudes turning up out of the blue at any time that would be useful to your would-be back-story.

And yet I said multiple times... keep low profile... rather than be a dumbass. Something which would be easier before actual war campaign because as I said before - any such espionage/spying is most useful and prevalent in real time, not 2 years in advance. So they would keep the most intense watch with some special harsher daily laws/more guards posted in actual wartime, not before that.

Some sort of military presence, sure, but nobody actually living there.

That literally means life and factions present. And if there is military presence, either like Romans did it or a special tribe keeping watch, they would have some helpers and a few civilians with them too. Not outright bustling life with towns- but still life.

You're doing the just-one-guy thing again. As before, it's a multiplayer game with grouping, there logically have to be at least *some* more Stout-axes around for you to potentially group up with. The same would go for your guy from Harad.

Because it is just-one-guy thing, grouping with other Beornings/Haradrims/Stout-axes would be mostly a game thing - far less narratively important, given the very underlying premise that there is only ever one Beorning etc associated with Frodo/Elrond and so on. But I know, you have this weird obsession that multiple player avatars existing in the game world is somehow super important for consistency or narrative reasons when considering any addition or storylines, but in fact - it's the least important part of the narrative and consistency here. Whether you see 3 player Haradrim and 10 Beorning bears in Bree hardly matters at all.

[Elebraen]

Realistically, I'd have to agree with Rad. Like the Japanese in the U.S. during WWII, you look different, you talk different, currently at war or even post-war, never mind if they were born in the U.S. and could speak English fluently... they were rejected wholesale by the U.S. population for being "the enemy", lumped in solely because of their race, not because of their actions. That's not a local population mindset that's going to change just because the war was declared over. That takes years for those wounds to heal. And the mistrust of that race will linger for at least a generation, both ways.

As we fight these enemies in effigy, the mindset already develops that Haradrim and Easterlings and Corsairs are the enemy across the board, and the deviations from that are novelties, not the norm. Aragorn would have to do what most political leaders do and find some trade value in them for their redemption to reincorporate them as neutral nation, and then as allies, in about twenty years or so. To leave them economically bereft and isolated is to invite another war between the "have"s and the "have not"s who want it.

Sauron wouldn't have to do anything particularly oppressive or threatening to keep those people penned in. The Freemen would naturally try to keep them out. Sauron just uses that blanket discrimination to his own advantage by giving them an alliance with Mordor, and occasionally stirs the pot to ensure that the emnity never dies. The hallmark of Sauron's evil is that he gives you what you want, but twists it to suit his own purposes, that it's so hard to reject him. You're already divided about it, and thus weak. A smooth operator, that one is.

[Radhruin_EU]

But if it's possible and explained in more detail

Not so much if it's tortuously contrived in the process, requiring multiple coincidences and (as here) a case of "he just does, okay" when it comes to why and how this dude would end up in Bree.

Show me female guards all over Middle-earth in Gondor, Rohan and Dale and then we can talk about generic "obvious" tropes. As it stands, it's a calculated creative choice as consistent part of the world.

Female guards anywhere in a setting like this are a trope unless it's a culture noted for fierce warrior women. You claim it's calculated, how do you know? Why in Bree of all places, when rightly speaking it shouldn't have any guards at all beyond a watchman on each gate? And consistent with what, exactly? Apart from it being a game

And yet I said multiple times... keep low profile... rather than be a dumbass. Something which would be easier before actual war campaign because as I said before - any such espionage/spying is most useful and prevalent in real time, not 2 years in advance. So they would keep the most intense watch with some special harsher daily laws/more guards posted in actual wartime, not before that.

Like I said, the Corsairs had been making their presence felt for decades, including raiding the coasts. That's what the common people had learned to associate the Haradrim with (that, cruelty, and them being ever ready to Sauron's will because that's the reputation they've earned for themselves). 'Curse the Southrons!', etc. And the 'official' line on this is:

"'Tis many lives of Men since any have passed to and fro between us."

- Damrod, 'Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit', The Two Towers

Still not seeing how someone could know how to keep a low profile in a culture that's alien to them. This all seems so forced.

That literally means life and factions present. And if there is military presence, either like Romans did it or a special tribe keeping watch, they would have some helpers and a few civilians with them too. Not outright bustling life with towns- but still life.

Not in that sense, because this is beyond the frontier and nobody holds the place. Look at Ithilien, you've got a company of Rangers hiding out in a cave and otherwise the only 'life' there'd be was Sauron's armies marching through and whatever patrols Minas Morgul sent out. You don't count such a land as populated because nobody actually lives there. And of the 'factions' possibly present in Harondor, well, one of them would kill you and the other one wouldn't be pleased to see you, at the very least. If they were out there in secret to keep tabs on what the Haradrim might be up to, any Gondorian squaddies would likely be extremely frosty and given that your guy's from Harad, that sure wouldn't help.

Because it is just-one-guy thing, grouping with other Beornings/Haradrims/Stout-axes would be mostly a game thing - far less narratively important

No, not in an RPG. If you group with anyone then you make them part of your character's narrative - sure, you can assume there's only one guy having the specific adventures that form the content of the game but that doesn't exclude there being other people around like you who are having adventures of their own (notionally different from yours) and whose paths you sometimes cross. So no, there isn't just one Beorning etc., logically there have to be *some* more than that. Not thousands because that really would be a game thing, but some number greater than one.

[TesalionLortus]

Realistically, I'd have to agree with Rad. Like the Japanese in the U.S. during WWII, you look different, you talk different, currently at war or even post-war, never mind if they were born in the U.S. and could speak English fluently... they were rejected wholesale by the U.S. population for being "the enemy", lumped in solely because of their race, not because of their actions. That's not a local population mindset that's going to change just because the war was declared over. That takes years for those wounds to heal. And the mistrust of that race will linger for at least a generation, both ways.

I agree socially, but that's not the kind of example that was discussed here, since it's different to have racial tensions between races who live together (so directed against minorities, in a social sense) and a lone harder to notice passerby of said minority who doesn't exactly live anywhere and doesn't invite sociopolitical attention, they're just on the road and careful so may choose to wear hood most of the time.

Not so much if it's tortuously contrived in the process, requiring multiple coincidences and (as here) a case of "he just does, okay" when it comes to why and how this dude would end up in Bree.

So just like Stout-axe, checked = the game has already done it but I would like it if they actually done it a bit better when they do it next, with instanced time skips showcasing the journey rather than "he just does, okay" on a black screen like Stout-axe.

And consistent with what, exactly? Apart from it being a game

Internally consistent and applied only to specific cultures as part of them because that's how these cultures are characterized - in the game's interpretation.

Still not seeing how someone could know how to keep a low profile in a culture that's alien to them. This all seems so forced.

Same way Aragorn or Gandalf made their own journeys East and South, or do you believe they openly paraded as Westerners everywhere, paid with Gondor's currency and somehow they were not noticed/suspicious and never chased by every guard in the area because you give them special treatment?

Look at Ithilien, you've got a company of Rangers hiding out in a cave and otherwise the only 'life' there'd be was Sauron's armies marching through and whatever patrols Minas Morgul sent out. You don't count such a land as populated because nobody actually lives there.

Maybe in the book, with everything being mostly blank space and not detailed. In the game we already have multiple ruins and spots occupied by the rangers. Besides, that's just now, what I was talking about was before, before everything declined to the present day state.

No, not in an RPG. If you group with anyone then you make them part of your character's narrative - sure, you can assume there's only one guy having the specific adventures that form the content of the game but that doesn't exclude there being other people around like you who are having adventures of their own (notionally different from yours) and whose paths you sometimes cross. So no, there isn't just one Beorning etc., logically there have to be *some* more than that. Not thousands because that really would be a game thing, but some number greater than one.

OK, if you insists so much, then there are 1-3 Beornings or Haradrims, doesn't change much and still doesn't change the fact the aspect of grouping is the least important narratively and will always feel super game-like and fake when you get into a group with 6 hobbits and many of them these powerful kickass fighters + now also casters. That's actually more ridiculous when you look at it than getting into a group with a few Eastern looking warriors - who would most likely wear Western-styled armor, thus highlighting their allegiance, or have their faces behind helmets anyway. Unless a player did something very flashy and very Eastern with their armor, but then again - they can pretty much imitate that on a darker skinned regular man already. So there is seriously zero issues here.

[Radhruin_EU]

So just like Stout-axe, checked = the game has already done it but I would like it if they actually done it a bit better when they do it next, with instanced time skips showcasing the journey rather than "he just does, okay" on a black screen like Stout-axe.

Worse than that, because Stout-axes at least don't walk around looking and sounding like someone from an enemy faction. They'd just look like an unfamiliar bunch of Dwarves.

Internally consistent and applied only to specific cultures as part of them because that's how these cultures are characterized - in the game's interpretation.

How? That's no better than saying that because the game did it then it must fit. How is the Bree-land characterised in any way which would have it make sense?

Same way Aragorn or Gandalf made their own journeys East and South, or do you believe they openly paraded as Westerners everywhere, paid with Gondor's currency and somehow they were not noticed/suspicious and never chased by every guard in the area because you give them special treatment?

So now you're equating your nub character with Aragorn or Gandalf?

Maybe in the book, with everything being empty and not detailed. In the game we already have multiple ruins and spots occupied by the rangers.

That's a game thing (as usual, they need locations with NPCs). The thing about Henneth Annun was that it was secret and well-hidden. Non-hidden landmarks like ruins would have been a deathtrap.

OK, if you insists so much, then there are 1-3 Beornings or Haradrims, doesn't change much

It means the background story couldn't really be so madly complicated and singular because there must be more guys like yours about the place and so others must have been able to do something similar (and also found their way to Bree, which is one of the more awkward details for more characters doing that).

[TesalionLortus]

So now you're equating your nub character with Aragorn or Gandalf?

Maybe it's a bit off a stretch to compare anyone to Gandalf or Aragorn but works in this example: they're not exactly supernatural beings with super extra capabilities for travel nor ninjas, not even Gandalf. Aragorn has ranger training of course but how is any of that supposed to conceal him in urban areas - it wouldn't, he would just do a regular thing and blend in, try to avoid attention, hide his Western habits and most of the time - his skin. Literally anyone could try to be cautious, act smart and do that. If you like to refer back to canon with this absolutist stance as much, then by this logic, if Aragorn was able to set foot in Harad (and explore it, maybe as far as Far Harad?) that means a Haradrim may be able to set foot in Gondor and beyond. Because all these things about being careful and crafty, not attracting attention and there not being such a perfect invigilation system in this setting as to cover the entirety of the land and have every urban place perfectly inspected - all these things do apply, even in Harad (which would be harsher and tighter place than Gondor in the first place), and that's the reason why Tolkien was realistically able to say Aragorn journeyed under the strange stars in the first place.

That's a game thing (as usual, they need locations with NPCs).

OK, so we can basically write off the entire game as "just a game thing" nothing makes sense and nothing is part of its lore, according to this statement. I wonder why do the writers even bother to write these deed logs or come up with expanded backstories. They should just put random unnamed ruins on the map because it's just a game thing of no relevance. I'm just being sarcastic of course. (Please don't, devs!)

It means the background story couldn't really be so madly complicated and singular because there must be more guys like yours about the place and so others must have been able to do something similar (and also found their way to Bree, which is one of the more awkward details for more characters doing that).

I really am not sure how to put it because you're obviously blind to this fact but... you do have 10 Beornings or 10 Stout-axes all at once awkwardly finding their way to Bree, with 10 Beornings send on a special mission (narratively only one gets send) or 10 Stout-axes escaping from Mordor (it's a real spree of escapes no?). So yes, a backstory can be complicated, it doesn't need to suit a larger population of X characters of a certain type all being able to do that as if they were all legit part of narrative all at once - this literally doesn't currently exist in the game, unless you go with one of these more generic classes/races

[Radhruin_EU]

Maybe it's a bit off a stretch to compare anyone to Gandalf or Aragorn

You weren't comparing just anyone, you were comparing a nub character with them so it's an unbelievable stretch. Aragorn could always go undercover by pretending he was a Black Numenorean (and could have had Gandalf teach him how to speak the most common Haradrim language, as Gandalf had apparently already been there). Not a trick your would-be character could do in reverse.

I really am not sure how to put it because you're obviously blind to this fact but... you do have 10 Beornings or 10 Stout-axes all at once awkwardly finding their way to Bree, with 10 Beornings send on a special mission (narratively only one gets send) or 10 Stout-axes escaping from Mordor (it's a real spree of escapes no?). So yes, a backstory can be complicated, it doesn't need to suit a larger population of X characters of a certain type all being able to do that as if they were all legit part of narrative all at once - this literally doesn't currently exist in the game, unless you go with one of these more generic classes/races

Not blind to it at all, it's far harder narratively to have a bunch of characters from such a a faraway place who've all supposedly managed to make the same very difficult journey, having been all told they need to get to Bree (for no plausible reason, since I'm sure fate could find someone a little closer to hand to be heroic). The Stout-axes making a mass jailbreak makes a bit more sense and ending up over that way makes a bit more sense too as they were supposedly helping out fellow Dwarves.

[Elebraen]

Not blind to it at all, it's far harder narratively to have a bunch of characters from such a a faraway place who've all supposedly managed to make the same very difficult journey, having been all told they need to get to Bree (for no plausible reason, since I'm sure fate could find someone a little closer to hand to be heroic). The Stout-axes making a mass jailbreak makes a bit more sense and ending up over that way makes a bit more sense too as they were supposedly helping out fellow Dwarves.

I am given to mind the covert chicken run that begins at Sandson's Farm in the Shire and ends at Minas Tirith. The lynx critters near Rivendell kept eating my chicken even though I did my best to avoid having any contact with any non-chicken entities. I did eventually make it to Minas Tirith for my flight of freedom to earn the Lord of the Wings.

Even if you knew the territory, and I did, that doesn't make a covert run any easier when you're the prey who's outside of the safety of your own well-defended territory. And I'm sure you won't like this example either because a chicken is not a human. But if I want to have the thrill and frustration of a covert operation, I know where to go.

I agree socially, but that's not the kind of example that was discussed here, since it's different to have racial tensions between races who live together (so directed against minorities, in a social sense) and a lone harder to notice passerby of said minority who doesn't exactly live anywhere and doesn't invite sociopolitical attention, they're just on the road and careful so may choose to wear hood most of the time.

The internal racial tensions that you're talking about is hatred and bigotry that's based off of imagination, the future. I was talking about the hatred and bigotry that was based off of Just Cause, the history, off of acts of war that have already happened and the fear and isolationism that naturally occurs population-wide when an enemy to the nation has been identified. You can't roll that back once it's already occurred was my point because the act of war is already a fact, not a fear. You have to neutralize that with enough facts and history in a harmonious direction, and that usually begins tentatively with an economic trade agreement to get it started.

Hey! Maybe the next class will be a Merchant class

[TesalionLortus]

The internal racial tensions that you're talking about is hatred and bigotry that's based off of imagination, the future. I was talking about the hatred and bigotry that was based off of Just Cause, the history, off of acts of war that have already happened and the fear and isolationism that naturally occurs population-wide when an enemy to the nation has been identified. You can't roll that back once it's already occurred was my point because the act of war is already a fact, not a fear. You have to neutralize that with enough facts and history in a harmonious direction, and that usually begins tentatively with an economic trade agreement to get it started.

Hey! Maybe the next class will be a Merchant class

Yes, but you mentioned WWII and Asians of USA, so that's why I said it was different - it's in modern era and a "living situation", so not Asians who just happened to pass through but those who already been there and were identified within a "living space" so to speak. But we were talking about a single traveler who tries to keep low profile, not live amongst Westerners within their "living space" at settlement X day after day.

Aragorn could always go undercover by pretending he was a Black Numenorean

I highly doubt it..... White pure Black Numenorean wouldn't be just a common (or even known/associated as such by the locals) view on the streets. Only found in palaces and high places and even there it would be mostly impure blood at this point, not a guy looking like they're straight out of the West/Numenor. A guy like Aragorn, with his skin and complexion truly exposed in full light, would just evoke "Gondorian!" "Westerner!" vibes, not "Black Numenorean" vibes that make him somehow special and ignored by passerbys or local guards

it's far harder narratively to have a bunch of characters from such a a faraway place who've all supposedly managed to make the same very difficult journey, having been all told they need to get to Bree (for no plausible reason, since I'm sure fate could find someone a little closer to hand to be heroic). The Stout-axes making a mass jailbreak makes a bit more sense and ending up over that way makes a bit more sense too as they were supposedly helping out fellow Dwarves.

No, Stout-axes don't make a little bit more sense, they're just as much contrived and silly if you try to imagine 10 of them managed to do that and all of them ended up in Eriador, of all places. Surprises me you can do these mental gymnastics to convince yourself they're any different. In any case, narratively there is of course only one Stout-axe who witnessed the death of his friend and takes part in the ongoing narrative as the PC, so I don't really need to do any of that "there are more of them and it's important" in the first place because it's clearly not as important.

[Radhruin_EU]

But we were talking about a single traveler who tries to keep low profile, not live amongst Westerners within their "living space" at settlement X day after day.

'Low profile'

In relative terms it's like some Berber dude pitching up in early-medieval Cornwall... people would notice.

I highly doubt it..... White pure Black Numenorean wouldn't be just a common (or even known/associated as such by the locals) view on the streets. Only found in palaces and high places and even there it would be mostly impure blood at this point, not a guy looking like they're straight out of the West/Numenor. A guy like Aragorn, with his skin and complexion truly exposed in full light, would just evoke "Gondorian!" "Westerner!" vibes, not "Black Numenorean" vibes that make him somehow special and ignored by passerbys or local guards

I said nothing about it being common, just that he could pass as that (particularly in the game's take on things). And he was weather-beaten from all the time he spent outdoors.

No, Stout-axes don't make a little bit more sense, they're just as much contrived and silly if you try to imagine 10 of them managed to do that and all of them ended up in Eriador, of all places. Surprises me you can do these mental gymnastics to convince yourself they're any different. In any case, narratively there is of course only one Stout-axe who witnessed the death of his friend and takes part in the ongoing narrative as the PC, so I don't really need to do any of that "there are more of them and it's important" in the first place because it's clearly not as important.

When it came to the Stout-axes I was thinking more the Great Escape but with Dwarves so more than one isn't a big deal. And them befriending our familiar Longbeards provides a more plausible means for them to end up in Eriador (a real reason, something with some demonstrable relevance). Plus having actually been slaves to Sauron himself gives more of a reason to join the fight than just being some random Haradrim dude who legged it.

[TesalionLortus]

And them befriending our familiar Longbeards provides a more plausible means for them to end up in Eriador (a real reason, something with some demonstrable relevance). Plus having actually been slaves to Sauron himself gives more of a reason to join the fight than just being some random Haradrim dude who legged it.

The Stout-axe character meets Dourhands (at first), not Longbeards, so Longebeards aren't really the reason why the place was chosen. And that reason to fight back you mentioned is no different than it could be with any potential escaped Southern/Eastern slave or member of oppressed group/tribe (Corsairs, other very oppressive regimes, main castes/tribes of these regimes = Sauron to blame, or at least they rely on Sauron's support, so indirectly Sauron would be the cause and if he gets beaten then maybe there is some room for changes for the better back at home).

But yeah, that's exactly why I didn't mention an outright typical Khundolar becoming playable, for example - they're members of the main caste, so to speak, and even if some of them aren't too keen on Sauron reign - it would be fairly unrealistic for one of them to just switch sides, face his own on the battlefield, abandoning their own family back home to play hero in Eriador and possibly endangering their home land to invasion from the West, which is not something that any member if these main tribes and castes would entertain, even if they thought some Westerners have a real shot at defeating Sauron - they wouldn't do that if it could endanger their own people who run the show back home. A member of minority, however.. that's a different story. They come from people who are already too keen on "revolution" (just in their dreams of course, but can't really speak out) and mostly have nothing to loose, because if they aren't slaves they're still not treated much better than actual slaves - so they would be the first to align themselves with foreign invaders or up for civil war, in case Sauron gets defeated, because a crisis like that is the only shot they get to change the status quo and their terrible position. Someone from such a group would have less problem with something like that - helping out Westerners because there is a real chance/hope to undermine Sauron - and wouldn't mind facing their oppressors from these main tribes on the battlefield either, they would embrace it

[Elebraen]

Yes, but you mentioned WWII and Asians of USA, so that's why I said it was different - it's in modern era and a "living situation", so not Asians who just happened to pass through but those who already been there and were identified within a "living space" so to speak. But we were talking about a single traveler who tries to keep low profile, not live amongst Westerners within their "living space" at settlement X day after day.

You're right. The chicken run is probably a much better example of a low profile traveler who is just trying to pass through and not get eaten along the way. Not everyone eats chickens, but the ones who do, don't let you live.

[Radhruin_EU]

The Stout-axe character meets Dourhands (at first), not Longbeards, so Longebeards aren't really the reason why the place was chosen. And that reason to fight back you mentioned is no different than it could be with any potential escaped Southern/Eastern slave or member of oppressed group/tribe (Corsairs, other very oppressive regimes, main castes/tribes of these regimes = Sauron to blame, or at least they rely on Sauron's support, so indirectly Sauron would be the cause and if he gets beaten then maybe there is some room for changes for the better back at home).

It makes the reason for them to end up in Eriador doing it that bit more likely for Stout-axes, that link that's been written in from them to other Dwarves. There isn't anything like that for Haradrim. (Or Easterlings either, as it's the wrong side of the Misty Mountains).