Book 13 Dev Diary Feedback: The Orc Defiler

[Dell8400p4]

It's the opposite on Elendilmir. Usually there are 2-3 raids of Freeps versus 1/2 - 1 1/2 raid of Creeps. I don't think they will be able to achieve balance just by classes; they need mechanisms to help offset population differences.

Yes... I remember the good old days when creeps ruled.

But the problem is creeps quit to play freeps and now we have so many freeps it's crazy.

This defiler will harm the creep body (1 good warleader healer > Rank 0-4 Defiler) because people will be getting slaughtered.

[one1one]

.....Because otherwise, if someone has spent 3 months (or 6 months or whatever) working on their character, leveling him up to 50, gaining his gear, his skills, etc....do you seriously think anyone would want to take their character to the moors and suddenly have to PvP being stripped of nearly all their skills, stripped of all their gear, etc? I just don't see it happening.

You don't see it happening, but you see someone wanting to play a creep who has to start from scratch and has to face a freep with the best gear, skills, and knowledge for his/her class? The problem is there is nowhere for a creep to go and level. Nowhere to gain skills and attributes without having to fight a much overpowered enemy at every turn. If freeps started the moors just like creeps your right, freeps might not play. Ive never known a freep who doesn't run from a fair fight.

[one1one]

Oh, I guess I should address the topic of the thread too. The reason the creeps get a second healing class is because they need it to keep their out matched and out gunned buts in the fight. The orc defiler is a band-aid meant to maintain peoples interest long enough for the devs to figure out how to fix the pvmp balance problem.

[Wanderv]

A Message from Akulhún:

"All right, maggots! Mordírith's grown tired of you whining wretches

oh, Akulhun read Creeps forum here? :O

[Wanderv]

I seriously hope they rethink the Sticky Feet Curse. 10% slow is a joke, and not even being able to keep the snare up is just kind of silly. As a caster class, kiting is extremely important in 1 v 1 fights.

PvMP isn't balanced for 1 vs 1 fights i suspect. It's for battles between large numbers of players.

[Wanderv]

I think the freeps should start in the moors the same way the creeps do. You should have none of the abilities and attributes that you have gained in the rest of middle earth. The skills you can use should come from questing in the moors and spending DP. That way a rank 2 LM would be just as useless as a rank 2 weaver. Its the only way to make it fair.

it is the best way to destroy PvMP

[Wanderv]

You don't see it happening, but you see someone wanting to play a creep who has to start from scratch and has to face a freep with the best gear, skills, and knowledge for his/her class? The problem is there is nowhere for a creep to go and level. Nowhere to gain skills and attributes without having to fight a much overpowered enemy at every turn. If freeps started the moors just like creeps your right, freeps might not play. Ive never known a freep who doesn't run from a fair fight.

Yes. It is intended to be so. And that is fine. It's an interesting gameplay here. I think noone need another clone of WoW etc.

[Royal_Nazgul]

Was this creature mentioned in the books? Anyways... oh great, another creep to slow me down.

[drop2zer0]

what they need to do is when you go to ettenmoors you go to one server that only runs ettenmoors. You head to ettenmoors you move to another server...Might be a small delay but who would care....No more imbalance...Plenty of action always 24x7

And it would help if it was useful/purposeful to kill a troll/ranger, then folks wouldnt be so blatant about how they play them.....

just my two coppers

That's a good idea, but I think that there would be so many people in the Ettenmoors at once that the lag would render it almost unplayable.

[Sladesh]

I have to say I'm somewhat dissapointed with the defiler class. It definitely seems like a 'band-aid' class. Though I have no idea how good the HoTs are, so they might be better than the WLs heals, who knows. I found it amusing when the devs said 'we thought the creeps lacked serious debuffs', which I agreed with.. and then read the defiler's.

10% slow is a joke, and the other debuffs sound all too similar to the WL's banner of terror before it got owned by the nerf bat. With the addition of the sprint skills freeps get, making it extremely difficult to catch them running away (which they tend to do even more often now that they can sprint) this doesn't sound like a very viable addition to the creep class. I can already see the class getting nerfed on top of that, if any of those skills turn out to be good.

So we get a class with a more reliable res (I actually like this).
Some heals similar to the WLs + HoT(this is good).
And debuffs which will do little more than annoy freeps / give them another excuse to run away =/. (no thanks?)

Oh well, I guess I wanted more from the utility side of the defiler, but i'll never reject the extra heals.

[Cajiga]

I'm having mixed opinions about the Defiler. I had hoped that the Devs would have introduced something to "balance out" the Loremaster in the Morres. Loremaster Tar, AE Roots, Rez, Healing, Stun Immunity and Stun/Mezes make for a very powerful Freep class. Lore Masters can single handly lock down Keeps with their Tar and AE Roots, making returning to the Tyrant's defense virtually impossible. I had hoped the defiler would be given some kind of CC to help in the defense of keeps. Something kool like tossing down a flaming liquid that would coat an area like tar but cause Freeps damage for standing in it or passing through it but doesn't have a snaring effect like tar. Basically the Burning oil effect of Keeps but doing less damage of course.

A kool effect would have been some kind of Ointment (smell) that the Defiler coats a Creep's face with that keeps him alert and gives 10 seconds stun immunity. Maybe an AE Stun breaker, the Defiler throws a rotten egg at the Creep and the smell wakes him and other Creeps standing around from stun. An ointment that coats the Creeps legs and gives root immunity for 10 seconds. All of these ideas can be balanced with casting/recasting time. I had hoped we could have gotten a Range stun attack. Loremaster's can stun a Warleader from greater range then a blackarrow can fire a bow, somethings wrong there and we have to get to practically point blank range to effect a stun against a minstral. A single Creep target in combat Run Bosst buff would have been nice.

Hots aren't going to be reliable heals. Waiting to rank 3 for a quick casting heal these days isn't going to take long but I think they should have given the Defiler one Hot and one instant heal starting and it would pick up the other two heals ranking.

As for the Rez, I think it's totally stupid. A minstral who gets out of combat CHAIN REZES. A Defiler can ONLY Rez out of combat and can only rez ONE target and it costs him MORALE and POWER. Yet the Freeps have THREE REZERS Minstals/Captains/Loremasters who can all Rez INCOMBAT.

Curse of Stiky Feet should be at least 20% and stacks with other Defilers (3 casts) like Burg Dust.

Curse of the Lethargic Heart/Curse of the Deadly Sorrows: Should be AE and hit up 3 to 5 characters.

I like the attacks, Fire Gourd, Plague Gourd & Head-crack. It should be interesting how many Burgs are going to be upset that they keep getting knocked out of Hips due to fire dot and poison dot.

"In addition, the Defiler can earn enhancing traits to alter and improve their Curse of the Sticky Feet, Plague Gourd, and other skills." This sounds intersting.

I'll DEFINETLY be trying it, even if it's just for a change of pace.

[emz66us68]

Hi I have not seen a defiler yet, but I know whats wrong too

[a99barnsey]

Hots aren't going to be reliable heals. Waiting to rank 3 for a quick casting heal these days isn't going to take long but I think they should have given the Defiler one Hot and one instant heal starting and it would pick up the other two heals ranking.

As for the Rez, I think it's totally stupid. A minstral who gets out of combat CHAIN REZES. A Defiler can ONLY Rez out of combat and can only rez ONE target and it costs him MORALE and POWER. Yet the Freeps have THREE REZERS Minstals/Captains/Loremasters who can all Rez INCOMBAT.

Curse of Stiky Feet should be at least 20% and stacks with other Defilers (3 casts) like Burg Dust.

I agree with some of what you said, but...

LM can't rez in combat. Warleaders have a group in combat rez. Fairly balanced IMO.

Defiler's heals alone aren't like what a minstrel can put out, but both WL and Defiler can heal much better than a LM/Captain. And the WL has a really good damage absorb bubble he can put on people. When you combine a defiler and a WL, you get very competent healing.

[dekuz]

. When you combine a defiler and a WL, you get very competent healing.

Yes, I thinks it's called a minstrel. 2 Creeps = 1 Freep lol it's the "Numbers, shear numbers" model

[Magi]

...Ive never known a freep who doesn't run from a fair fight.

Absolutely true on both servers I have played on. It seems freeps don't really want PvP. Instead they want to effortlessly farm creeps as if we were PvE content. Pathetic really.

[Bedlem3342]

I think the deifler will make things very interesting.I have no interest in playing a creep, i like to kill them though . Honestly though, the class will make a difference in the moors but as for healing 2 WL's can take care of it easy. The deifler needs to be like a spell-caster or hym-chanter.Tons of dread build up,crazy shadow bleeds and SELF healing.the WL's are crazy enough healers as it is. Grant it , the lore-master on the freep side has some heals as to a minstrel , maybe that part is okay.However i still want to see a evil shadow caster just like the angmariam illusionists in anumminas.

Don't get me wrong the deifler will be insane for sure.Can't wait untill we get some high ranked ones out there.

[Bedlem3342]

Absolutely true on both servers I have played on. It seems freeps don't really want PvP. Instead they want to effortlessly farm creeps as if we were PvE content. Pathetic really.

Maybe on your server whichever it may be.(I am talking landroval server here)

Us freeps on ladroval get a 5v15 fight everyday and we still fight.Untill all the freeps show up and even the numbers creeps dominate.


85% of the time on landroval 4/5 keeps are red. i have seen plenty of times when creeps are out numberd;however from early morning-5pm creeps dominate.

Secondly how many burglars out there HIPS at 500 morale in a 1v3??? I consider a 1v3 Burg vz 3 creeps 100% fair. I have given up on "staying alive no matter what" "the burglars code(always hips if you can't win" ) It 's a load of you know what. You wont catch me HIPSing in anything less then 1 VZ 10 . I was leading a group one day and after it became about 2-1 creeps to freeps and we had no chance, i got a tell from a hunter saying he DFed because it took him all day to get his 3rd star. I couldn't believe it. Creeps are the same way, wargs hipsing at 2k health in the middle of a good fight give me a break.the will to not die is ruining the moors.

[gildhur]

...as for healing 2 WL's can take care of it easy. ... the WL's are crazy enough healers as it is.

...unless we are facing a Lore-master, Burglar, or Champion, in which case we can't heal at all because we're either chain mez/stunned or interrupted constantly.

[Yeebo]

The design of the class sounds awesome.

However...

"light leather straps crossed his body and a massive BEAR skull sat upon his brow"

I'm not sure what kind of skull the defiler in the screenshot is wearing, but it's certainly not a "bear," or any mammal that I am aware of for that matter. The separate nasal openings alone were ditched by mammal ancestors some time in the Triassic or Permian (you'd have to go back to a "mammal like reptile" to find a skill that looks remotely like that). There are also the signs of what look like sawed down horns on the sides. If the in game description makes any reference to bear skulls, I will proceed to whine :-P

[gildhur]

I'm not sure what kind of skull the defiler in the screenshot is wearing, but it's certainly not a "bear," or any mammal that I am aware of for that matter.

There are four different skulls in the Defiler skins. Deer, bear, aurochs, and drake. The diary referenced the bear, but showed a screenshot with an aurochs skull. Not the end of the world.

[NYSEguy1970]

There are four different skulls in the Defiler skins. Deer, bear, aurochs, and drake. The diary referenced the bear, but showed a screenshot with an aurochs skull. Not the end of the world.

my question is where did the Defiler get the deer skull?

The Ettens has plenty of bears, aurochs, and drakes...but I've not seen a single deer roaming around the Ettens.

[gildhur]

my question is where did the Defiler get the deer skull?
The Ettens has plenty of bears, aurochs, and drakes...but I've not seen a single deer roaming around the Ettens.

Per the dev diary, the Defiler was sent to the Ettenmoors by Mordirith from other areas of the world, presumably populated with deer.

Either that or they ordered them from the taxidermist in Bree and had them dropped in via Crebain Postal Service.

[a99barnsey]

Maybe it's a horse skull rather than a deer skull. In that case, it's pretty clear where he got it from...

[gildhur]

Maybe it's a horse skull rather than a deer skull. In that case, it's pretty clear where he got it from...

uh. Horses don't have antlers.

[Cajiga]

I do not understand how anyone can believe Rezing in the Morres is balanced.

Freeps: 3 Rezers

Minstal Rez: 1 in-combat Rez (10 min cooldown), 1 out of combat Rez (Chain Cast)

Captain Rez: 1 in-combat (30 min cooldown)

Loremaster Rez: 1 out of combat Rez (chain Cast - requires material)


Creeps: 2 Rezers

Warleader: 1 in-combat Fellowship Rez (5 min cooldown)

Defiler: 1 out of combat Rez (cooldown unknown - requires Defilers Morale and Power)


Not sure if any traits or Deeds effect freep rez's, except for the Captains Deed that increases targets Morale to full and give more power to target when rezed. While the WL's Group Rez is a strong skill we're still looking at 3 Freep Rezers to 2 Creep rezers. Of which 2 of the Freep Rezers can Chain Rez out of combat and it doesn't cost them Morale. The Loremasters Rez requires material but I doubt it's too costly (please confirm).

I still don't see a balance. If you are going to give the defiler a morale cost for rezing it should be available in-combat and maybe additionally give him an out of combat Rez requiring Material.