Bullroarer Update 23 (Build #1) - Preview and General Feedback

[gells]

It's already pretty low after the introduction of the failed Mordor's instance cluster.

Worth noting that this was hardly a cluster (maybe another kind of cluster, arguably). But, all Mordor offered was a 3man and a Raid. And then they punished us for playing the 3man to gear for the raid by introducing chest locks. Way to go, SSG.

[Tatharil]

Hunters are one trick ponies and from reading about the update it seems that one trick might be taken away. Champs can (sort of) tank, minis can heal, Rk can (sort of) heal. Hunters only rain death and destruction and thats it.

Hunters aren't one trick ponies. Their other tricks aren't looked for and aren't as good as they were preHD, but they aren't one trick ponies.
(The mistake they made: focus on roots/traps and destroy mezz aka Distracting Shot)

1. Even red hunter has some CC.
2. Trapper of Foes has slightly better CC and debuffs than red.
3. Trapper of Foes hasn't had its balance pass, yet. There is still hope, the 2nd(CC) and 3rd trick(debuffs) hunters know will be worthwhile again.

[sapienze]

Serious question. Can someone please explain to me how me buying all my new shiny gear on day one versus earning it all in 3 weeks will affect anyone else?

Serious question. Can you explain why you would want to buy all the shiny new gear on day one versus earning it all in 3 weeks?


Those morale pots? I won't buy them and be damned if some CC Warrior uses them in PvMP to kill me and then flip over to creep and trash talk about how I need to L2P. 1st time that happens it will be the last time.

Make them not usable in PvMP.


Last note: In an attempt to appease all player types, in fact alienates a small section of the player base each time. What kind of game is LotRO? Declare this and be done with it.

[Harkenheim]

https://imgur.com/a/RiCNrLw

I think that these potions should not be sold in store. Make the craftable ones at a rate of 25% of health (same for power one) with 3m cd to replace the pathetic 2.5k craftable ones they are proposing. Percentage based system for health and potion pots are needed tbh.

If they need to add to lootboxes and store make them 35%-40% ones with same 3m cd.

Dont want content to be rollover but what i am proposing is a use for pots to save from defeat when you like 25% of health and healer is not keeping up in group.

[Knight.]

The boxes from abyss raid ( gear , offhands etc ) scale their contents to level 120.

Please fix.
Last thing we want for u23 is for players to stockpile gear from a 115 raid.

[Daniyel]

Dear SSG some feedback on u23 beta:
sending text in more than one language in a tell (not channel) triggers: That text is prohibited because of a content, size, or mixed-alphabet restriction. - this broken with u22.4 release with the chat filter changes.
Easily reproducible by copying this and sending it to anyone: ???????, hello

Finesse scaled way down to 1k per % at lvl 115 is nice =) great way to help fix LM's
waiting to get to 120 cap to see what the curve is like up there.

the misspelling of Michel Delving in the Shire on the new map is *JARRING* Holy moly!

New zone in deed log is called the dwarf-holds, so you should be consistent with your map/zone name and with the update name if possible?

TWO mores of enchantment exist on beta - the motes you get during beta, and the motes you transfer with from live? Shouldn't they merge?

Lootbox rate drop of traveler's box (min level 10, max level 115) is way to low compared to hero's box (min level 116)

Trait point acquisition is way to inconsistent: 7-105: every 2 levels, 106-115: every 3, then 1 at 120? really?

[MAWorking]

People will complain about anything.
Only seeing a few things at this point and will note.

Pay to win rants are simply ridiculous. Stop comparing yourself to others. Play the game at your pace. Grind out to get the gear ya want.
Who cares if little Joey got all the shiney stuff on day 1.... it does not effect my game what so ever.

Play at your own pace.

[Macdui]

People will complain about anything.
Only seeing a few things at this point and will note.

Pay to win rants are simply ridiculous. Stop comparing yourself to others. Play the game at your pace. Grind out to get the gear ya want.
Who cares if little Joey got all the shiney stuff on day 1.... it does not effect my game what so ever.

Play at your own pace.

SSG don't have to make a better game if the Joeys keep paying them for the shoddy one.

Mac

[Hirandiel]

If they've done one thing really well in recent months it has been to make me feel like a sucker for dropping 130 on Mordor pre-order. :/ The lootbox/ key nonsense, then the instance chest locks when they had only given us a half-assed cluster (a 3 man and a raid basically, does anyone run Naerband? probably not, because it sucks).... Now the pots and more lootbox ####. Just gonna play my lower levels with friends until that also ceases to be fun and then call it a day.

[Altair6]

Serious question. Can someone please explain to me how me buying all my new shiny gear on day one versus earning it all in 3 weeks will affect anyone else?

Because it affects the way they design the gameplay, as many people have pointed out above. More grind. More locks. Variable rewards for quests - I do the same daily quests as the next guy for a key, open box, get maybe half the ash they do and some rubbish I don't need. In the past, like with Hytbold, you knew what you were getting and how long it would take, now, it's a lottery.

[Snoopy]

Serious question. Can you explain why you would want to buy all the shiny new gear on day one versus earning it all in 3 weeks?


Those morale pots? I won't buy them and be damned if some CC Warrior uses them in PvMP to kill me and then flip over to creep and trash talk about how I need to L2P. 1st time that happens it will be the last time.

Make them not usable in PvMP.


Last note: In an attempt to appease all player types, in fact alienates a small section of the player base each time. What kind of game is LotRO? Declare this and be done with it.

Personally I probably will spend some cash to get some gear so I don't have to grind it all out. I'm a "filthy casual" and would rather spend my time doing other stuff like grinding out deeds, exploring or whatever I find fun. The process of gaining gear is not fun to me and since I have some disposable income that I can spend on the game I will to save the time and effort doing other stuff I don't enjoy. I don't necessarily but the argument that the loot box P2W will affect anyone else other then myself. It's a personal choice. I'll play the way I want to and others will play the way they want to. It's seems simple to me. If you don't want to pay then spend the time earning it the old fashion way or grind LP and buy it.

[Skyfoot]

Serious question. Can someone please explain to me how me buying all my new shiny gear on day one versus earning it all in 3 weeks will affect anyone else?

Legitimately earning gear shows competence.

To be devil's advocate, this has nothing to do with competence of anyone (i.e. players).

If you can buy all the shiny gear on day one, what is the point of releasing a wealth of content for those who can't--or chose not to--buy said gear, but instead earn it through playing the actual game?

SSG knows exactly what they are doing. Minimum output of content for maximum returns. Loot-boxes allow them to do this. They are trolling what is left of the remaining player base and they know that a good percentage of them will not care because they love hanging out in Middle Earth so much they accept the status quo.

So it makes me laugh when I hear people talk about re-used art assets, disjointed class balance work, half baked avatar revamps and broken dungeons again and again...what do you honestly expect? You have the game you deserve.

[Jerguc]

To be devil's advocate, this has nothing to do with competence of anyone (i.e. players).

If you can buy all the shiny gear on day one, what is the point of releasing a wealth of content for those who can't--or chose not to--buy said gear, but instead earn it through playing the actual game?

SSG knows exactly what they are doing. Minimum output of content for maximum returns. Loot-boxes allow them to do this. They are trolling what is left of the remaining player base and they know that a good percentage of them will not care because they love hanging out in Middle Earth so much they accept the status quo.

So it makes me laugh when I hear people talk about re-used art assets, disjointed class balance work, half baked avatar revamps and broken dungeons again and again...what do you honestly expect? You have the game you deserve.

Sad but true, except for the last part. SSG doesn't deserve us as their customers. But because this is the only Middle Earth setting MMO they can get away with pretty much anything and there will be still people buying in their store and singing their praises.

[sapienze]

Personally I probably will spend some cash to get some gear so I don't have to grind it all out. I'm a "filthy casual" and would rather spend my time doing other stuff like grinding out deeds, exploring or whatever I find fun. The process of gaining gear is not fun to me and since I have some disposable income that I can spend on the game I will to save the time and effort doing other stuff I don't enjoy. I don't necessarily but the argument that the loot box P2W will affect anyone else other then myself. It's a personal choice. I'll play the way I want to and others will play the way they want to. It's seems simple to me. If you don't want to pay then spend the time earning it the old fashion way or grind LP and buy it.

Ok so its a vanity choice and not a QoL investment? I say because at no point doing the things you mentioned an more was BiS a requirement.

Here it is a "Filthy Casual" (no disrespect Intended) admittance of why, this game has gone done the tubes as far as earning (with effort) a way through the game leading to endgame.

Thank You for being honest.



This fortifies why SSG should declare what kinda of MMO they are maintaining.

This is so relative to the BR sessions in that it needs to be said. You can't please everyone so stop trying. As it is players are getting banned right and left because of such features like the Lootbox items and their opinions leading up to overt complaints.

[Decrepify]

You have the game you deserve.

No, casual pandering got us the game they deserved.
Chasing other games meta got them what they deserved.
If they instead looked to tending their own yard instead of being jealous of how much greener neighbours' is, we'd have a much better game.

But, no. Gotta bleed them players dry, mostly cause some players want to bleed, so much so they defend this predatory lootbox policy.

In regards to someone who replied about my "legitimate earning", every tree at times has a rotten apple.

[SSG_RedPanda]

Hi there!

Thank you all so much for your feedback. I’m here to talk a little about the % based potions. These potions came about from a conversation I had on the forums about Hobbit Presents (link here) One of the things discussed was how much the rejuvenation potion was disliked. I worked with the team for way to make them more useful. The current iteration of these potions is our first pass. They will not be lockbox only and will be replacing the Hobbit Present's rejuvenation potion as well as possibly showing up in other places.

That being said, we also know that some of our players love crafting. I have spoken with Vastin and we are in agreement that the crafted potion should be improved. We will be making another pass on the potions before they go live.

Thank you. Please keep letting us know your thoughts, we are all reading these and taking your feedback to heart.

[Decrepify]

Please keep letting us know your thoughts, we are all reading these and taking your feedback to heart.

Nice. Keep it up and remove BIS gear from lootboxes. Rest can be swallowed (barely, but yeah)

[Skyfoot]

They will not be lockbox only and will be replacing the Hobbit Present's rejuvenation potion...

So just another form of lottery with ties to the store, sure...

...as well as possibly showing up in other places.

Possibly? What other places??

[elzeqq]

Hi there!

Thank you all so much for your feedback. I’m here to talk a little about the % based potions. These potions came about from a conversation I had on the forums about Hobbit Presents (link here) One of the things discussed was how much the rejuvenation potion was disliked. I worked with the team for way to make them more useful. The current iteration of these potions is our first pass. They will not be lockbox only and will be replacing the Hobbit Present's rejuvenation potion as well as possibly showing up in other places.

That being said, we also know that some of our players love crafting. I have spoken with Vastin and we are in agreement that the crafted potion should be improved. We will be making another pass on the potions before they go live.

Thank you. Please keep letting us know your thoughts, we are all reading these and taking your feedback to heart.

I hope we will see daily locks from 3/6man instances removed then, if you take our feedbacks to heart.

[Skyfoot]

Remove all lootboxes.

Fixed it for you.

[Rimenuir]

Hi there!

Thank you all so much for your feedback. I’m here to talk a little about the % based potions. These potions came about from a conversation I had on the forums about Hobbit Presents (link here) One of the things discussed was how much the rejuvenation potion was disliked. I worked with the team for way to make them more useful. The current iteration of these potions is our first pass. They will not be lockbox only and will be replacing the Hobbit Present's rejuvenation potion as well as possibly showing up in other places.

That being said, we also know that some of our players love crafting. I have spoken with Vastin and we are in agreement that the crafted potion should be improved. We will be making another pass on the potions before they go live.

Thank you. Please keep letting us know your thoughts, we are all reading these and taking your feedback to heart.

Thank you for the response!

Now to an earlier comment on how it effects people gearing if someone buys it in one day vs getting over 3 weeks... When those 3 weeks are up, people will have the instances on farm (if they've been geared for 3 weeks) and those that took longer to gear are less likely to get into pug groups. Its the circle of you need to run stuff to get the gear but need the gear to run the stuff.... you can circumvent that by buying keys.

[Snoopy]

Ok so its a vanity choice and not a QoL investment? I say because at no point doing the things you mentioned an more was BiS a requirement.

Here it is a "Filthy Casual" (no disrespect Intended) admittance of why, this game has gone done the tubes as far as earning (with effort) a way through the game leading to endgame.

Thank You for being honest.



This fortifies why SSG should declare what kinda of MMO they are maintaining.

This is so relative to the BR sessions in that it needs to be said. You can't please everyone so stop trying. As it is players are getting banned right and left because of such features like the Lootbox items and their opinions leading up to overt complaints.

I still don't follow your logic though. Help me understand.

So day 1 I get the best current available gear, I play the landscape quests at an easier pace since I have decent gear, and then once I'm done questing I don't have to do the dailies to get the best current gear. I have played my character from level 1-115 do I know how to play my toon. If I choose to run instances I will be prepared gear wise. What am I missing?

[Belnavar]

Hi there!

Thank you all so much for your feedback. I’m here to talk a little about the % based potions. These potions came about from a conversation I had on the forums about Hobbit Presents (link here) One of the things discussed was how much the rejuvenation potion was disliked. I worked with the team for way to make them more useful. The current iteration of these potions is our first pass. They will not be lockbox only and will be replacing the Hobbit Present's rejuvenation potion as well as possibly showing up in other places.

That being said, we also know that some of our players love crafting. I have spoken with Vastin and we are in agreement that the crafted potion should be improved. We will be making another pass on the potions before they go live.

Thank you. Please keep letting us know your thoughts, we are all reading these and taking your feedback to heart.

My suggestion for the % potions is to make them available at rep barterers as well as in Hobbit Presents and lootboxes. Then slowly expand the ways to get them, such as at festivals, etc. That way we can get a decent stockpile of them without being essentially forced to buy them from the Store. If something like this doesn't happen, I can see some groups pressuring people to buy these from the Store in order to be "viable" in the hardest content. That shouldn't be the case. Many of us are already paying a subscription for the game, and often contribute more with periodic LOTRO Point purchases, so there should never be a scenario where we feel like we have to buy consumables with cash.

The crafted ones certainly haven't kept up with our morale pools, and make almost no noticeable difference in group content, so they need to be boosted, without question. In fact, a wider look should be taken at a variety of morale restores, including the Race of Man heal, as 2-3k is nothing when some characters have over 250k morale.

-Bel

[Cil.]

Instead they should focus on how to keep us playing the game and paying for our VIP subs, that's what longterm plan should be. Certainly not lootboxes with gear.

I totally agree. And with all the others arguments against this direction that push the game at each expansion a little bit more closer to a P2W system. So I won't say anything futher about it.
(But... Still, theses potions... That's insane ! Are you crazy ?? A 70% restore ? That too much ! And only in store or lootboxes ? You're kidding me... Huh ?)

There are so much things better than lootboxes that could be done to bring some money back (I'm aware that you needed it, of course)...

I think the best is to enhance the VIP status :

- every costs could be lower just for VIP : "Do you want this new mount (or outfit) of festival ? You're VIP ? Well, it's 30 tokens instead of 40." "This new stuff ? 800 ashes instead 1200." "A new classes deeds emplacement ? 75 mithril's coins instead 100..." Etc.
This way, the VIP status would be interesting for ALL kind of players (casual, HL, RP...)
With the normal price AND the VIP price at each PNJ, that would encourage players being VIP, and to stay VIP !!! (because as it's already been said by an other guy, the older players have already unlocked everything, and do not pay anymore for content, except the expansion). I think (but maybe I'm wrong, I'm not an economist) that it's better to have a huge part of steady contributions, with VIP status, than only rely on potential and fluctuating purchases of LOTRO Points.
/!\ BUT !!! /!\ IT SHOULDN'T BE A REASON TO INCREASE THE PRICES ! The idea is to decrease the actual costs for VIP, not to increase those for F2P.

- all deeds should be reduced to VIP ; killing hundreds of mobs with your 9 or 10th character is SOOOO boring... Even with the bonus tome of killer...

- why don't you make a compromise to the chestlock system : daily for F2P, unlocked for VIP ?
I'm not very fan of that point, as it make a big difference between F2P and VIP, but well... I tried to find a compromise acceptable for those who payed each month and could not loot the chest when they come to help a friend on an instance...

As some people are paying every month, they should have more advantages than 500 pts to spend in the store. But I think increase this number of allowed points is not a good solution, that's why I'm presenting these alternative ideas.

-------------

Another point : I didn't find any crafting method for Edhelharn... Please, don't tell me that we still have to return farming Eorlingas Ore.... I can understand that you didn't want to increase the effect of the Edhelharn, but I'm begging you : allow us to craft the same item with the actual ressources !!!

-------------

I've tested the new "stats". For now, I'm pretty satisfied. Especially for little lvl.
I've tried to do a "Boss from the Vaults : Thrâng !" on Sirannon at lvl 60, it was unbearable... As the instance is made for 115 and rescale lower, I think it was still needing finesse (there's no on 60 lvl stuff) because the mobs evade most of my skills. And I also suppose that the mitigation needs were to high to reach for a reroll lvl 60... The help of a minstrel 115 didn't save me, as most of time, it was an OS, even with damage reduction buffs (I was with a warden, correctly stuff for 60, not the best, but really correct, I swear !).
I've tried on Bullroarer, well, I still died, but at least, I stand up more than 5 sec, alone, and the mob didn't evade all my skills. That's good news for all scalable instances, I guess.

-------------

A little out of scope :
Could you please do something (maybe not for the next Update, but please, think about it for later...) about the chest of kinship house ? : 100 mithril's to increase it... It's a lot for a single player. Isn't it possible to change that in something like the Belfalas housing ? Each members of the kin should be able to pay 1 or 2 (or as any as he want) of mithril's coin, and buy a thing like... hum... "Fragment of chest patent" (1 mithril / 1 fragment), and when the kin has 100 fragments, the chief can purchase an amelioration of chest with it !... That would be great I think...
(And I have so much more ideas about kinship system... But that not the good thread...)


So :
- great job on stats, especially for lower lvl, that gives hope for scalable instance
- decrease importance of lootboxes, to prevent a P2W game
- unlock instance's chests (farming instances with others players is much more attractive than daily solo quests... -_-# We're on a MMO afterall !!!)
- smartly enhance the VIP status
- and work on kinship advantage for futures updates (and the boxes of universal ingredient should not take a yard's emplacement... Or add 2 little places just for it ! )

Well that's all for the moment...

PS : I forgot : please review the loots of scalable instances !!!! To drop items lvl 105 on an instance that we have launch in lvl 115, sometime T2, is just UNACCEPTABLE !!! Like essences lvl 8 on weakly instance...

[Jerguc]

I still don't follow your logic though. Help me understand.

So day 1 I get the best current available gear, I play the landscape quests at an easier pace since I have decent gear, and then once I'm done questing I don't have to do the dailies to get the best current gear. I have played my character from level 1-115 do I know how to play my toon. If I choose to run instances I will be prepared gear wise. What am I missing?

Maybe it's just me, but if you 'buy' the best gear with real money, then what's even the point of playing at all? You achieved nothing and your wallet is empty.