Warden Changes and Feedback

[Regero]

My biggest concern with option 3 (which I already see is getting pushed to test, so we'll see how it works, but I still wish to share my thoughts) is that it's not going to do anything to fix the current Warden issue of "always start with and refresh your highest damage gambits (4-5 icons) and only use 2/3 icon gambits when you have nothing else betterto do."
It seems counter to the concept of the class identity of "working towards bigger things" that the gambit system seems to have been originally designed to reward.

A proposal would be to keep the current chain build system for AT, and make the buffs for completing it more significant, so that it really feels like a setup/cashout system, rather than just a pure gate on AT. I understand that this could be tricky to balance so that it's worth doing, without making it either overtuned for players that can execute it consistently, or so necessary that it locks out some players from contributing meaningfully on Warden, so I have other thoughts that could help incentivize the chains, rather than just "do your strongest gambits," which just seems like casting regular skills with extra steps.


If you want to alleviate the "penalty" for having to start with a 2-icon, perhaps instead of clearing the gambit panel when executed, leave it filled, unless a gambit chain was completed. If the player wants to utilize all gambits in a single line, this makes the "click" penalty less. Assuming that masteries get used with no resets, a current 2-icon->3-icon->4-icon chain would take approximately some variation of (mastery +gambit, builder + mastery + gambit, 4 builders + gambit)=2+3+5=10 button presses, if the panel wasn't cleared, it would take (mastery + gambit, builder + gambit, builder + gambit)=2+2+2=6 button presses, and the same for the same 2->3->5 chain, with a mastery replacing the last builder. That's only 1 more press than manually building a 4-icon gambit currently is (mastery + builder + builder + gambit), and you get the whole chain.

This would make building a full chain of the same line quick and easy, alleviating the "DPS delay" to getting a set of DoTs applied. And swapping gambit lines while in the same chain can still be done relatively easily with the "Recovery" skill, if the player doesn't want to apply the whole line, or decides to swap mid chain.

The new AT generation (any 4 gambits in any order) feels a lot less interesting. You might as well just give us an AT every N seconds we're in combat.

The old (2-3-4/5) system felt OK for tanking; what if (2-3-4) and (3-4-5) (but not 2-3-5) counted as a chain? That would make the DPS rotation more flexible without making the system completely brain-dead like it is on beta 2.

Also, what about "three of a kind" also giving an AT (e.g. 2-2-2, 3-3-3, 4-4-4, 5-5-5)?

So basically "a straight" or "three of a kind". Very intuitive and easy to remember, and will lead to interesting choices in gameplay.

I agree with both of the above posts. Chains were implemented to give us a reason to use the Tier 2 and 3 Gambits. When the chain system was originally implemented it was broken, giving full and potent improvements for only using the tier 2 or 3 gambit. This meant you could make Restoration substantially better by simply bothering to hit Persevere first. It was a bit OP and certainly a bug, but it DID accomplish its intended function. If you want the system to feel good, you need to buff the rewards you get for completing a chain. Currently, on Live, the only chain effect actively worth considering is the Persevere line, the others are not really worth chasing, or almost completely useless. AT isn't so substantial a reward when the CD skills, though decent, can only be procced every 1.5 minutes, and for a very short duration. Under the Beta 2 system, we might as well just gain a passive trickle of AT as long as we are in combat. Personally, I prefer the system as it is in Live, the chain completion bonuses just need a buff.

Its clunky even now, you want it more complicated ? Like we dont have 12 buffs to keep up in 1.3 min rotation? Are you serious?
It should be reduced to 3 gambits in any order imo. 4 is fine when you sit and tank and spank but what about when we need to kite ?

Wardens adjusting to u35 changes:

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1514487202393483

The class is less complicated than it was for the first several years of its implementation. 12 buffs in a 1.3 minute rotation? We used to keep up Dance of War, Shield Mastery, Conviction, both AOE morale leaches, Celebration of Skill, Restoration, Wall of Steel, AND tab-target various enemies to hit them with Precise Blow, also possibly a War-Cry or Goad, and then, with the split seconds you have left, decide if you wanted more heals (which could be a HOT or Resolution) or get more threat, on a less than 30 second rotation with longer Mastery cool-downs. All of this was further complicated if you were also expected to be on interrupt or corruption removal duty. There was also no force-taunts back then, you had to very actively manage threat. Further, none of your Gambits actually told you how much threat they generated; you had no way of knowing Conviction was AWESOME, Precise Blow was your best ST threat generator, or Goad did more than War-cry, unless you went to the forums and saw that people had tested it.

I remember last time wardens were balanced with other tanks (lvl 85 iirc), your gambits and abilities were strong. Self heals were similar to what a dedicated healer healed the guardian, guardian heals were almost nonexistent. In total in raids, your self heals+ healer heals - damage taken was similar in both guardians and wardens. Warden by far was best tank in avoids, literally almost capping everything with buffs and guardians could not even compare in this matter.

This is literally the only way to make wardens compete at all as tanks. And please, fix the joke you did with brink of victory and warning shot, particularly warning shot should just have its debuff it currently has in live servers, buffing enemy damage by forcing taunt is the most stupid mechanic you could do...

There's a fair amount of truth to this. I like the vision of the Warden as it exists on Bullroarer, particularly the DPS on Beta 2, but what it ultimately needs is a it more mitigation, a bit more Partial BPE with ratings OR more raw BPE numbers, and slightly bigger self-heals.


Now, all that said, the Warden on Beta 2 feels quite a bit better than it did in Beta 1. Heals, DPS, everything feels much nicer. Still not perfect, but a solid step in the right direction.