Developer Diary Feedback: The City of the Kings - Battle for the Ettenmoors

[NYSEguy1970]

So the entire update is a major upgrade to Creeps who already own the keeps constantly on Silverlode?

Guess I won't be going back to the ettenmoors anymore after this patch.

Thanks for ruining a perfectly good game by bending to pressure from a bunch of folks who spent all of an hour getting to level 10 to make creeps, whereas the freeps, your loyal customers who had to build a character up to a full 50 levels to be useful in Monster Play get completely ignored.

can't hear what you are saying...your voice is being muffled by the seat cushion.

look a little harder and you'll see all the changes comming to the pve side. This dev diary specifically addresses one aspect of the upcomming book 10 upgrades.

[BostonPsyco]

No keep fliipping addressed?

Also Creeps seem to be getting a little too powerful. Considering how easilly they can exploit their way up to level 4-5 rank with the help of low level targets ported into Etten it seems like the Creeps have it a little too easy. They get to make one at level 10 and freps can't eneter until level 40 (and until they are lev 46 or higher they are actually pretty useless because they immediately get targetted and owned by warg packs).

The whole premise of this was supposed to be an imbalance in numbers. More creeps was supposed to balance it out. But the two things imention go hand in hand. Exploiters ranking up way too quickly and making the need for numbers lessen, and the constant side flipping. Doesn't really matter how the numbers balance in terms of actual server play. If 75% of the PvPer flip from one side to the other itdoesn't matter what buffs or extras you give them.

Depending on the cost of destinypoints for a session toon who knows what that will bring. it more than likely will encourage more flipping to farm destiny points even further, thus making the new "innovative" troll or ranger nuetered. Because if people bnk up 100K destiny they will be playing these things continously, but if there is a flip I doubt even 7 of them could with stand a gank force of 60 opposing faction players.

On paper it looks great especially for the creeps, but if any loophole is left open people will find it. A flip timer HAS to be put inplace, because all you do with giving players more things to spend destiny point on is to encourage them to farm destiny points even harder. Either a flip timer or some sort of population control would work. Obviously the flip timer makes more sense bacause it targets the people doing the flipping. I surely don't want to hear of an epic battle in Etten and not be able to get in because there is a population imbalance. BUT if it betters the fights then I am all for it. Creep side can have say no more than 75% more than the freep side, and Freep side can have no more than 40-50% of the creep side. Or whatever percenatge seems fair after all the creep buffs come around.

It is just sad seing battles of say 20 on 30 that rage a few hours in the afternoon deteroriate into a constant flip flop all night as more people log on and sway the battle with sheer numbers. Because all that does is make the side that loses go over to the other side, so what was once 30-20 quickly becomes 60-20 depending on which side has the keeps.

rodarin,

so many nights and days we have to deal with you and your overpowered buddies reaming us for hours until you get bored and flip. now its finally our turn to be equals and maybe even more powerful.... and you want to take it away from us.

i think we deserve it. you obviously have no respect for your counterparts. i guess i'll just have to target you for a while to make you respect us. good luck getting reamed in the future. just remember...... it's karma and i love it!!

[rodarin]

rodarin,

so many nights and days we have to deal with you and your overpowered buddies reaming us for hours until you get bored and flip. now its finally our turn to be equals and maybe even more powerful.... and you want to take it away from us.

i think we deserve it. you obviously have no respect for your counterparts. i guess i'll just have to target you for a while to make you respect us. good luck getting reamed in the future. just remember...... it's karma and i love it!!

LOL I missed this. I was wondering why you were dying so many times after trying to hit me. LOL (again) All I can say is the same thing I say in OOC...Silly wargs when will they ever learn? You guys enlist spiders now to help you, because the warg packs weren't cutting it :P. Stick to what you guys know best...camping the rez circles and ganking people 10 on 1.

We have pretty much policed all the keep flippers now. We made a treaty to have the REAL PvPers flip back and forth and balance out the numbers to stop (both sides/same people) from farming DP and tokens. We also on the freep side try to at least keep Isen red, which serves two functions. Keepingout the gold farmers, and having 2K less DP for the flippers to get if they decide to. if it were up to me I would leave ISen and either TR or Lug. Then simply fight for control of TA. Had some epic battles there the past couple days I missed one but the other was pretty nice.

But unless Freeps have some way to get Dp or there is a timer, flipping will be rampant after this goes live.

[kastickboy]

It's not like you can't just click a button and get an instant level 50 spider that can cast an unbreakable/unresistable root.

So again, PLEASE don't post if you have NO idea how the game works or the dynamics behind it.

I think you need to stop posting then. The spider root is resistible/avoidable and frequently happens.

Back to the 30 sec stuns. LM = Lore Master, they chain cast this spell left and right. Sure it has the "Chance" to break on damage and often doesn't. It is primarily used to stun a creep long enough for 5-8 freeps to get within 3m of the creep and start wailing on them. Maybe after losing half your health does it break but by then you've got slows, bleeds, and 3 Champs/guardians wailing on you. Id say 75% of the time someone gets hit by a LM stun, they die.

Packs of 3 or 4 burgs running around is also great fun trying to survive...

[Gumawerian]

I'm going to have to side with the freeps on this one: In the books, the primary advantage of the The Enemy is numbers. In other words, the forces of the Shadow outnumber the Free Peoples. If monster players are put on par with players, this will be lost, since freeps are already outnumbered.

The solution? Don't try to make creeps capable of contending with freeps -- give them the option to trade in fate points for temporary control of creatures like Trolls without giving the Freeps anything like it. Freeps should not need alts like the Rangers -- freeps of this level are heroes -- what we need are ways to make some monsters more powerful, but still have their primary advantage be their numbers.

Monster were already strong enough before the patcht (if they invested fate points into their monster characters and didn't try to take on the greatest heroes of the Ettenmoors while solo), so really, I think raising their base morale isn't neccessary.

Monsters shouldn't be able to match heroes consistently -- they have numbers; freeps have heroism.

[Raze99]

rodarin,

so many nights and days we have to deal with you and your overpowered buddies reaming us for hours until you get bored and flip. now its finally our turn to be equals and maybe even more powerful.... and you want to take it away from us.

i think we deserve it. you obviously have no respect for your counterparts. i guess i'll just have to target you for a while to make you respect us. good luck getting reamed in the future. just remember...... it's karma and i love it!!

We shall see who is running when a group of Hunters use HeartSeeker and One-Shot every Creep on the front line

Will be just like the movies !

[argonass]

All in all this update at a read appears to be a huge step in the right direction as PVP is very lacking in this game.

However we still lack the basic essentials of arena PVP combat to be able to "spar" in fellowhips vs other freeps or even kin vs kin.

I and many others would love to see the inclusion of arenas in towns ranging from low lvl to high lvl depending on the area without having to have completed the game to be able to take advantage of PVP.

Peredure SilverShield, Tur
UNDERWORLD KNIGHTS

[MakDragon]

Seems to me that there is a very easy solution to the flipping. If it's simply an issue of DP, then make DP unique to each character, just like experience points. Instead of making DP sharable by every character, creep and freep, on a server, make it unique. Or at least make two DP pools, one sharable for a players freeps, and one for the creeps. If freeps need more way to earn it, just balance that.

Or am I missing something here?

[Drtanyon]

Thank you for the updates. I had a lot of complaints about the Strength of the Freeps over the Creep player. And I understand that the time invested in being a Powerful Creep needs to be equal to that of a Powerful Freep.

I was hoping that the potions would be made to protect against multiple player attacks for a few seconds. Instead of using a potion and then the next second being rooted or stund again for another 25 second.

Being a Warg Rank 4 and soon to be 5, I also would have liked my “Pounce” to be more than 3 seconds, while a Lore Master can root or stun me for 20 to 25 seconds.

Again thanks for the improvements.

I will right again on how the improvements assisted the game play to even things up.

Sincerely
Jronamo

[sbender99]

So the entire update is a major upgrade to Creeps who already own the keeps constantly on Silverlode?

Guess I won't be going back to the ettenmoors anymore after this patch.

Thanks for ruining a perfectly good game by bending to pressure from a bunch of folks who spent all of an hour getting to level 10 to make creeps, whereas the freeps, your loyal customers who had to build a character up to a full 50 levels to be useful in Monster Play get completely ignored.

YOU ARE NOT READING AND COMPREHENDING ANYTHING!!!!! We play our creeps as much as you play your freep. Just because we arent gaining levels doesnt mean we just started playing two mins ago. Ive probably been playing this game longer than you.

[sbender99]

I'm going to have to side with the freeps on this one: In the books, the primary advantage of the The Enemy is numbers. In other words, the forces of the Shadow outnumber the Free Peoples. If monster players are put on par with players, this will be lost, since freeps are already outnumbered....

You are lost...truly lost. Well, let me take that back. I dont know how it is on YOUR server, but on mine the creeps are almost always outnumbering the creeps. I believe that most servers are becoming this way. So your "primary advantage of the enemy is numbers..." aint so! May be that way in the book, but it aint happening that way in the game. But you still want us to stay as weak as we should be IF WE DID OUTNUMBER YOU, even though we dont? Could that be so you could.....hmmmm... KILL US EASILY!???? I think so.

NOTICE TO ALL FREEPS: Your days of ****** us are over. We're still not as powerful as you but we are still gonna wipe the land of ettenmoors with you after this patch!

[MummyLord]

A truly awesome amount of work coming and planned. But somehow you forgot to throw a bone (or in the case a leg) to my favorite monster class: the weaver!

[Gumawerian]

You are lost...truly lost. Well, let me take that back. I dont know how it is on YOUR server, but on mine the creeps are almost always outnumbering the creeps. I believe that most servers are becoming this way. So your "primary advantage of the enemy is numbers..." aint so! May be that way in the book, but it aint happening that way in the game. But you still want us to stay as weak as we should be IF WE DID OUTNUMBER YOU, even though we dont? Could that be so you could.....hmmmm... KILL US EASILY!???? I think so.

NOTICE TO ALL FREEPS: Your days of ****** us are over. We're still not as powerful as you but we are still gonna wipe the land of ettenmoors with you after this patch!

...there needs to be some way to make creeps more numerous... on my own sever (Landroval) numbers tend to shift from one side to the other -- perhaps making more creep NPCs and less freep NPCs is the answer?

[NYSEguy1970]

...there needs to be some way to make creeps more numerous... on my own sever (Landroval) numbers tend to shift from one side to the other -- perhaps making more creep NPCs and less freep NPCs is the answer?

they should make it that for every creep that logs in, -1 (creep) Friendly NPC and +1 (creep) unfriendly NPC from base, for every freep that logs in -3 freep friendly npcs and +3 freep unfriendly NPCs

[tkdsouthrar]

When will Loremasters get an update? we need skills for lvl 38+ please. and maybe a medium armor trait. Please send me a measage to reply. i dont check this thread much. I mean i will check it, but it'd easier if you'd just measage me.

[boredomir]

went to the moors today the first time after the patch. we had a group of 22 freeps + 2 rangers vs creeps + 1 troll.
the rangers were screaming for heals while the troll was able to soak up all the dps and remained unkillable never less than half its hp, with all the creeps hiding behind it. eventually most of the freeps left cos it seemed pretty meaninglessly imba.

[MirklinDarklander]

Just like I said, they completely overpowered the creeps and now it's pointless, and they've destroyed what used to be fun. The Creeps have been in control of the entire Ettenmoors ever since the patch.

The biggest problem is Trolls are better than Rangers by a considerable margin, and the fact that they cost Destiny Points to create, whereas Monster Players have TONS of Destiny and Freeps don't...

[speaksoftly]

Seems to me that there is a very easy solution to the flipping. If it's simply an issue of DP, then make DP unique to each character, just like experience points. Instead of making DP sharable by every character, creep and freep, on a server, make it unique. Or at least make two DP pools, one sharable for a players freeps, and one for the creeps. If freeps need more way to earn it, just balance that.

Or am I missing something here?

Freep pool, creep pool, this sounds like a good solution.

Never made a lick of sense that creeps even had a "destiny point" pool in my opinion, much less that they shared it with freeps. What would be a good thing to rename it to... "doom points" (http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/destiny ftw!)

[Vormaerin]

The solution to balancing the Creep vs Freep side should not be in adding NPCs. This is supposed to be a PvP area. I want to be fighting other players if I'm on the Ettenmoors. I can fight AI mobs everywhere else. Creeps are not dangerous to properly played Freeps one on one even now.

[MirklinDarklander]

Freep pool, creep pool, this sounds like a good solution.

Never made a lick of sense that creeps even had a "destiny point" pool in my opinion, much less that they shared it with freeps. What would be a good thing to rename it to... "doom points" (http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/destiny ftw!)

And how EXACTLY are Freeps supposed to get Destiny if they can't get it from playing Creeps? You get destiny when you level, but once you're 50... no more destiny.

This is why it was absolutely idiotic to make the Trolls/Rangers bought with Destiny. Creeps have plenty, Freeps don't.

The only way to stop flipping is to not allow people to switch sides without waiting like 10-15 minutes in between. That will fix flipping.

[NYSEguy1970]

And how EXACTLY are Freeps supposed to get Destiny if they can't get it from playing Creeps? You get destiny when you level, but once you're 50... no more destiny.

This is why it was absolutely idiotic to make the Trolls/Rangers bought with Destiny. Creeps have plenty, Freeps don't.

The only way to stop flipping is to not allow people to switch sides without waiting like 10-15 minutes in between. That will fix flipping.

um...so if creeps have plenty....and you can play a creep....and your creep's dp is shared with your freep......

um...the answer seems fairly obvious to me /shrug

[Gumawerian]

they should make it that for every creep that logs in, -1 (creep) Friendly NPC and +1 (creep) unfriendly NPC from base, for every freep that logs in -3 freep friendly npcs and +3 freep unfriendly NPCs

...now THIS is a great idea because it makes the battles in the Ettenmoors much more like the battles in the books: the Freeps should always be outnumbered, but have more opportunity for heroics. It just doesn't make sense for Freeps to outnumber the creeps -- and creeps should never have to fight multiple freeps alone. They should have NPC help in most situations.

[whatwouldthordo]

Orion, can you please hotpatch a few problems that we have been having in the Ettenmoors.

Namely the persistent roots after they have been negated, and the fixing of the talismans. If you cannot do this soon, then can you please acknowledge that these problems are known.

[Erelgal2]

Dug up this post because I care about PvP in this game. Way back when you did to it seems, as the changes you discussed with us stirred a lot of interest. There are multiple threads on the Monster Play forum that are asking for changes to PvMP, they're asking for help from you Turbine.

I personally am trying to build a list of issues/wants/needs of the PvMP community, things that could be easily remedied or designed that can keep your PvMP consumer base in tact. As it is I've seen too many of my fellows abandon this game because of the lack of attention given to this side.

Please read my Feedback post on the Monster Play forum, please give it and us some attention because we seem to be crying on deaf ears at this point.

I would love to see the Ettenmoors gather excitement like this post attracted so long ago...

[Wosret]

I wouldn't hold your breath Erelgal2...