Dev Diary Feedback: Burglar Advancement Beyond Level 50!

[Pusher]

Yay, more stuns.

Yay, longer stuns.

[bprorsum]

I mean, sure it seems exciting that Burglars will have additional crit-chain skills/melee damage skills.

However, I question how often we will be able to use them with both Crit Chance and Evade percentages being severely nerfed (Less than 10% and 15% cap, respectively). With these changes, it seems like the Burg class took a significant hit to their damage potential with the inability to keep the crit-chain open, not to mention being unable to rely on evade due to the cap to keep our crit-chain open with stick 'n move.

I guess I also question, what seems like, a ridiculous move to cap evade percentages at 15%. What was the reason for this? In my opinion, the class was built around evade, from TnG, to FF, to Stick 'n Move. Evade was THE thing that made the Burg class unique. The last one that could have been a loophole to the crit chance nerf but now, a useless legendary. So, why the cap/nerf? What direction do you want the Burg to go in? Cause right now, it seems like we're headed towards being a medium armour, lower morale Champ with a 1/3 of the DPS that can throw a mez here and there.

[Sylexis]

Hmmm I've thought of two additional questions.

1. Does Startling twist still remove a corruption if the mob is stun immune?

2. Are the legendaries that are crit chain pieces used in addition to FB and ET or in place of?

[DHargrave]

Sounds interesting. I want to use daggers but always end up using the ancient steel maces for the dps it wil be nice to use the daggers though if u can dps with them. Heres some ideas ive long wanted thought id throw them out there.



Throwing dagger- I would really like to have a throwing dagger like the rangers have in the moors. I would be willing to give something to have a legendary that let have throwing daggers to pin down or interupt something as a second addle or something maybe.


smoke and mirrors- It would be nice in the middle of a fight gone bad to be able to throw a smoke bomb or bag of powder that causes a circle of smoke around your fellowship letting them get of a wipe and not letting enemies target them for 10 secs or something.

Anyways i have to say these changes sound quite good no complaints = )

[dee_fruz]

However, I question how often we will be able to use them with both Crit Chance and Evade percentages being severely nerfed (Less than 10% and 15% cap, respectively). With these changes, it seems like the Burg class took a significant hit to their damage potential with the inability to keep the crit-chain open, not to mention being unable to rely on evade due to the cap to keep our crit-chain open with stick 'n move.

I agree that based on what has been written, burgs seem to be getting major improvements and no nerfs, and that in reality (beta) this is not the case, with caps/nerfs as outlined by brittain above. However I had "heard" that no statistics would be based on percentages come moria, that everything would be a number, similar to how might, agility, will etc work now. I wonder how this, if it is in fact what moria will bring, will factor in and if it will in fact have as great an impact as brit is suggesting.

I hope not. HiPS+Sprint=godly.

[DangerDan]

I've seen a number of questions on the basics of Trait Sets, so I thought I'd give a quick explanation of the system. I'm posting this in a couple of places so folks have a good chance of getting the information!

Trait Sets are a lot like Equipment Sets. You get bonuses for slotting multiple traits in the set. In Moria, we've taken all the class traits of each class and grouped them into three sets of 8, in the process adding new traits which you can earn. Each set has bonuses for 2, 3, 4, and 5 traits in the set slotted. The bonuses vary, but center on the theme of the set. The 5th set bonus allows you to slot a special legendary trait, which upgrades one of your new capstone skills into a legendary skill aligned with the focus of the set.

Along with organizing traits into sets and doing some really cool upgrades to the UI and feedback around that, we've added two new Class trait slots and one new Legendary trait slot.

You could slot 5 of one and 2 of another, allowing you to get the Legendary for one. Alternately, you could adopt a hybrid approach and slot 4 of one set and 3 of another getting some of the bonuses from each set. You could slot 2, 2, and 3... you get the idea. Also remember that you will get a third legendary slot and you could choose to put another of your original four Legendaries into the slot if you don't want to go with one of the 5-set bonus Legendaries.

So, the summary:
* Trait Sets are a lot like Equipment Sets
* Each class will have 3 trait sets of 8 traits each, organized around a theme
* There are bonuses for slotting 2, 3, 4, or 5 traits in a set
* Slotting the 5th trait allows you to slot a legendary that upgrades the set's capstone skill
* Each class will have a total of 7 Class trait slots and 3 Legendary trait slots
* Focused and hybrid builds are both viable options

Hopefully that helps outline the general shape of the system... I think that when you get to see it and play with it you'll see even more of the flexibility and specialization it offers.

[bprorsum]

Quirky gameplay aside, I think we all agree that we would rather control an outcome of a skill: Clever Retort, anyone? Chance and game play just never seem to produce great results.

As it stands now, it seems that the most beneficial trait tree is "The Quiet Knife". Burgs have always looked for additional damage, whether positional, stealthed, gear bonuses, and the often discussed, Mace > Dagger. To choose CC over damage seems beneficial for only raiding which was easily solved previously by popping into Mischief.

Slightly disappointing that the "knife" root is not in "The Quiet Knife" trait set as I believe both will be the most beneficial for PvP.

Anyhow, the issue I have with "The Mischief-Maker" is the need to trait Trickster. Unless Trickster no longer breaks Riddle/Improved Riddle or Improved Confound, why trait something that will just break whatever benefit (trait set) that will come from it being traited? Seems counter productive. Not to mention confound is currently on a 5 minute cooldown.

In a hybrid traited system, will our current skill set still be open? Will we have the option to move from mischief to stealth and back to mischief ? Do the current benefits from Mischief still apply? Or is the new Trait Set system a THIS or THAT and nothing between? If in Mischief, will we receive the benefits from "The Quiet Knife" trait set if traited?

I'm still slightly befuddled by improved Startling Twist. As long as an 8s is still applied, I'll go along with whatever MP buffs will be removed with it.

The other tidbits sound like welcome additions and look forward to understanding them a bit more.

[Xpheyel]

Thanks DangerDan! I was hoping the trait sets would work something like that.

[Golledhel]

I'm still slightly befuddled by improved Startling Twist. As long as an 8s is still applied, I'll go along with whatever MP buffs will be removed with it.

I believe they're mob buffs, not MP buffs.

[DangerDan]

In a hybrid traited system, will our current skill set still be open? Will we have the option to move from mischief to stealth and back to mischief ? Do the current benefits from Mischief still apply? Or is the new Trait Set system a THIS or THAT and nothing between? If in Mischief, will we receive the benefits from "The Quiet Knife" trait set if traited?

Trait Sets aren't about restricting your skill set, they allow you to emphasize one or more parts of it. You will still be able to move from Mischief and Stealth as you do today.

The bonuses you get based on how many traits in a set you have slotted do not go away just because you are out of Stealth or not in Mischief--but its possible that some set bonuses are only relevant to things done in Stealth or Mischief--just as some traits or skills are only useful or usable in one mode or another.

If you want to focus on the Quiet Knife set, you do not have to re-trait to use Mischief. However, some bonuses probably encourage you to use stealth. That's similar to how the traits you use today can make you stronger in one mode or another.

I'm still slightly befuddled by improved Startling Twist. As long as an 8s is still applied, I'll go along with whatever MP buffs will be removed with it.

The improvement to the skill adds the ability to remove Corruptions--the skill still does everything it did before.

[bprorsum]

Appreciate the responses, DD, even though they were selective.

Though I still believe the changes to Evade and Crit will result in some serious issues to our DPS and class as a whole, since you have chosen not to respond, I'll wait until Moria.

Dev diary notes are usually rainbows, ponies and skittles. But I think what we would like to know is whether there were any changes to skills/cds/etc. Does Dust still apply a slow? Does counter-defence still apply a -%BPE even with the changes to BPE? Just a quick rundown would be great. Clearly I'm impatient and like to be prepared .

[scrubmonkey]

I agree that based on what has been written, burgs seem to be getting major improvements and no nerfs, and that in reality (beta) this is not the case, with caps/nerfs as outlined by brittain above. However I had "heard" that no statistics would be based on percentages come moria, that everything would be a number, similar to how might, agility, will etc work now. I wonder how this, if it is in fact what moria will bring, will factor in and if it will in fact have as great an impact as brit is suggesting.

I hope not. HiPS+Sprint=godly.

That's a VERY interesting viewpoint. This leads me to take a second look at the 4-pc bonus on the Quiet Knife:
"The Burglar’s 4-set bonus builds on Devastating Criticals by enabling a self-buff on the Burglar following Devastating Critical Hits that increases subsequent critical damage."

I begin to wonder about how useful The Quiet Knife bonus will be if it takes a percent of a percent to use... Are devastating criticals based of of our crit chance, or will it be something separate and internal, like the FM chances on Exposed Throat?

I also REALLY hope that the legendary version of feint attack allows you to use Location is everything outside of stealth... This would turn the awkwardly-implimented sieze initiative into some SICK burst potential... and make the stealth skills more viable in raids without the stealth ;P since the danger of getting hit by an aoe and reduced speed are pretty big drawbacks to going old school stealth in raids, and are issues that I feel keep stealth from being useful in raids on top of Mischief being more group-friendly.

For PvMP, it seems like it's gonna be a tough choice between The Mischief-Maker full set, The Quiet Knife set, or hybrid with leaf walker being the odd man out... Can't hardly wait!

[Assassin12]

You already can use well placed trike outside of stealth...do you mean Location is everything?

[scrubmonkey]

You already can use well placed trike outside of stealth...do you mean Location is everything?

Yes. Fixed.

[DangerDan]

I begin to wonder about how useful The Quiet Knife bonus will be if it takes a percent of a percent to use... Are devastating criticals based of of our crit chance, or will it be something separate and internal, like the FM chances on Exposed Throat?

They are not a percent of a percent. If you have a 15% chance for a regular critical and a 4% chance for a devastating critical, you have a 19% chance to critical in one form or another. Both kinds of critical will allow you to use your crit-response skills.

[Sylexis]

Is 15/4 the new cap?

And I was still curious about my two questions earlier, I wondered if you knew the answers to them, thanks dangerdan!

[DangerDan]

1. Does Startling twist still remove a corruption if the mob is stun immune?

Yes.

2. Are the legendaries that are crit chain pieces used in addition to FB and ET or in place of?

They follow Double-edged Strike, just like FB and ET, so playing one of those skills is the final skill in that run up the critical response chain. The legendaries (and capstones even without the legendary trait) are additional options for the final play on the chain.

[Sylexis]

Thank you.

[mistakenone]

So I am very used to using the mirrored ancient steel sword and mace but after reading this I made myself a couple of mirrored ancient steel daggers. The speed makes up the difference in the lack of DPS but other than that I don't see a big advantage.. Help me out here!!!

Love the class though!!.. Burgs forever!!

[swisskdl]

Where's my extra bleed DangerDan?

I'm guessing the buff to daggers still won't equal what maces can do, so I would have preferred an extra bleed added if you dual wield daggers.

Something different you know, just a plain ole buff to daggers is boring to me. Giving an extra bleed if you dual wield daggers is something fun and different.

I poke with my daggers, poke holes cause bleeding.

[Hugolin]

I love the «Gambler» theme, but I'm not sure it'll be as usefull as the two other ways. Anyway, it sounds like a risky but funny choice. haha!

[Auditor]

OK, so why hasn't anyone mentioned this line in the diary yet? Was this a typo that somehow missed Q & A ? Or is there really an "Easter Egg" out there that actually let's us get these passive skills for dual-wielding dagger right now? Let the hunt begin.

"What’s more, you don’t have to wait until you reach Moria to gain this valuable new training." If this is really true I love you DangerDan, wait ... I already do because the burglar is such a great class to play!

[Big_H]

OK, so why hasn't anyone mentioned this line in the diary yet? Was this a typo that somehow missed Q & A ? Or is there really an "Easter Egg" out there that actually let's us get these passive skills for dual-wielding dagger right now? Let the hunt begin.

"What’s more, you don’t have to wait until you reach Moria to gain this valuable new training." If this is really true I love you DangerDan, wait ... I already do because the burglar is such a great class to play!

I took that to mean it's a skill/passive we get at sub-level 50. So you don't need to enter Moria (level 51+) to get the skill. Not that it's available in game now.

[Corentin]

A lot of good looking stuff in here. Like everyone said, it's going to be hard to pick one line to follow, but we burglars have the ability to adapt, so I'm sure we'll have a good time.

Thanks Dan for the hard work!

Woo! :Knife Knife:

[scrubmonkey]

Where's my extra bleed DangerDan?

I'm guessing the buff to daggers still won't equal what maces can do, so I would have preferred an extra bleed added if you dual wield daggers.

Something different you know, just a plain ole buff to daggers is boring to me. Giving an extra bleed if you dual wield daggers is something fun and different.

I poke with my daggers, poke holes cause bleeding.

I don't think an extra bleed effect would make daggers any more desirable to me then they are now. I often go dagger/dagger or sword/dagger in groups so I can fire off addles and enrages at will and so I don't wreck my own FMs by accidently stunning the mob with the mace, but I would NEVER solo with daggers because they eat up power so quickly... I guess adding a bleed would be sorta nice to leave on the main kill target in group play, but in solo/PvMP situations uncontrolled bleed effects can screw up your ability to mez when you need it. Adding a bleed wouldn't change the way that I play now at all. That, and it's been explained to me that bleed effects have been nerfed and are doomed to stay weak due to "exploit issues"...

Maybe if they added an ongoing power theft mechanic to daggers to offset the power costs of dual-wielding them? Daggers already have ICPR, but a passive power theft would be slightly better. Would rather have it be a small amount of power bled every swing over a moderate sized one that occurs at random.

As an alternative, howzabout making daggers increase our odds of getting a gamble? If I read the journal correctly, all burgs have a chance of getting a gamble, but "The Gambler" just increases those odds and make the effects better... It would be great to give daggers something different while reinforcing our class identity.

Eh, just throwing out ideas, we still have the MoM changes to digest.