NDA Drop Discussion

[fly351]

Keep being in denial but when you'll go in Moria and there will no minstrel and lore-master to group with, you will regret it. On my side, I will have 5 other alts to play with beside my minstrel and lore-master.

So untrue.. no one is going to stop playing the class just because something changed. You are over reacting and taking others word on something that you haven't even played.

This is exactly the issue I have. LM are not healers, or DPS, primary or secondary. So, we're intended to be a pet class, and cc. Ok, our pets are worthless in high-end encounters, and our cc is fair at best. Moria does not correct these issues, it makes them worse. Our skill sets are horribly structured, at best. Our CC got no love, and pets still are useless outside the small group, solo arena.

As far as our DPS, it was never overpowered. Have you soloed as a LM? Using cc, debuff, and pet, to full advantage, you can barely hold your own in the same type of fight any other class would win effortlessly. Why is simple: 1. Very limited self heal. 2. Poor armor. 3. Pets can't tank for you. All that made this work, was the dps.
.

Yes LM's have ALWAYS been over powered. Haven't you seen the Coldbear video of the Loremaster soloing an arch-nemisis? If not, look it up on Youtube...

[Yito_Graft]

So untrue.. no one is going to stop playing the class just because something changed. You are over reacting and taking others word on something that you haven't even played.



Yes LM's have ALWAYS been over powered. Haven't you seen the Coldbear video of the Loremaster soloing an arch-nemisis? If not, look it up on Youtube...

I have seen a Hunter solo a nemisis. It took 45 minutes though. This isn't directed at you per say, but the overall thread of making EM+ harder. I do not agree. For in world content, I think it should be relativly easy. For instances requiring a fellowship harder ****. I like soloing around the world, and don't want to be dieing evertime I turn around. But if I take out to tackle an instance with my friends, I want an experiance. This doesn't meen make instances longer, just challanging.

For LM, I have heard of them soloing Fornost at lvl 50. to say there CC is weak is not knowing how to play them. As a hunter, I soloed 1/3 of GA. I could solo everything but the ivar guy and the red maid. Reason I only got 1/3 done was I didn't have the key. I did spend a good 4-6 hours in there taking my time and being very careful. This isn't to say I think hunters should be nerfed, that is a lvl 35 instance and I'm lvl 50 rift geared with traits. I understand a LM can walk through that due to CC. Just my 2cp.

[fly351]

hmm i don't really understand what your point was but ok

[Andryhanel]

I disagree with this, if I wanted challenge I'd play a hardcore game. LOTRO caters first and foremost to casual players who play for one purpose: FUN. If you cannot get that, then you are playing the wrong game. .

Your basic assumption here is that lack of challenge and effort = fun. You are wrong. If you want a class that has zero barriers to progression, please roll a hunter. That class is in the game specifically for your play style.

In other words, it is YOU who are playing the wrong game. www.hellokittyonline.com

[greenleaf37911]

Anyone who think lore-master and minstrel are overpowerwed are fools. Each class must be capable of solability so they all must have some DPS to be able to play the whole amount of solo content and to be able to level up.

Your basic assumption here is that lack of challenge and effort = fun. You are wrong. If you want a class that has zero barriers to progression, please roll a hunter. That class is in the game specifically for your play style.

In other words, it is YOU who are playing the wrong game. www.hellokittyonline.com

As I said before, if going through the solo content and leveling up is a tedious chore then it is no fun indeed and it's not challenging at all. What you call challenge, I call it frustration. And do you know what people do when they frustrate? They quit. Do you know why there are not many lore-master and minstrels? Because most quit before getting to 20.

I could not do any solo quest on my minstrel at all without dying, heals are useless if you keep being interrupted, I had the luck to have a friend and a guildy to help me out, otherwise I would have never been able to level up my minstrel and heal people in group and book quest later. Ever! I would have probably deleted her for being too weak and I do not want to come back to this and yet this is exactly where minstrels will be back to once Moria will come out. Once my minstrel got to 20 and I got war-speech, I managed to finally get through the content by myself soloing but again, thinking minstrels are overpowered are just a bunch of fools because it's still long fights to fight and trying not to be interruted and I've never done anything out of the ordinary with my minstrel. It's the same with my lore-master who was very tough to level to 20 as well like my minstrel. Again I was lucky to get some help and around 20 I got enough CC to not die in 10 seconds, at 30 I got the lynx which helps too because the lynx is more DPS than the other pets but I'm still terribly squishy. I play other classes as well and I've never had these problems with my guardian, hunter and burglar, these three went through the solo content and leveling easy, in particular the hunter. As I said again, all classes must be able to solo the content, right now minstrel and lore-master manage to pull it off without being in god mode and things should stay that way. Otherwise, it will be too frustrating, not challenging, and as I said above, when it's too frustrasting, people quit. I don't intent to get my misntrel and my lore-master in Moria as long as this problem is not resolved. I play the game, and pay the devs, to have fun, not to scream and curse my screen all day long.

And by the way, I prefer playing complex classes hence why I'm playing minstrel, burglar and lore-master and I will be adding soon rune-keeper and warden once Moria comes out.

[Xiladi]

Just a question on how virtue traits will work in MoM, sorry if it's already been answered by a dev/dev quote, don't have time to read 14 pages atm. :x

As I understand virtue traits will still be capped at 10 but more deeds are being added allowing you to technically get above 10 in a trait with it having no effect. Does this mean we now have a choice of which deeds we want to grind to max out a trait (ie. 13 valour deeds, can we just choose 10 of them to grind out?), or is there some plan to eventually raise the cap from 10?

Thanks.

So untrue.. no one is going to stop playing the class just because something changed.

I am. While i'm sure i'll get it to 60 eventually, it's definately been knocked off my list of prioreties for the moment.

[Caricia]

Your basic assumption here is that lack of challenge and effort = fun. You are wrong. If you want a class that has zero barriers to progression, please roll a hunter. That class is in the game specifically for your play style.

In other words, it is YOU who are playing the wrong game. www.hellokittyonline.com

And I have a game for you to play: EQ. Very few classes are able to solo there. It should be a good challenge for you

Now with respect to minstrels hanging up their lutes. Well, I'm one of them. I have other classes to play solo until they fix minstrels. So too bad if you need a healer. If you're a good friend, maybe I'll take her out but won't change my dps traits in order to heal better just for your pleasure. Too bad if I let your character die in the process.

[dcpDarkMatter]

Just a question on how virtue traits will work in MoM, sorry if it's already been answered by a dev/dev quote, don't have time to read 14 pages atm. :x

As I understand virtue traits will still be capped at 10 but more deeds are being added allowing you to technically get above 10 in a trait with it having no effect. Does this mean we now have a choice of which deeds we want to grind to max out a trait (ie. 13 valour deeds, can we just choose 10 of them to grind out?), or is there some plan to eventually raise the cap from 10?

Yes, you now no longer have to grind out Trolls in Uru or the like if you don't want to.

[MinasMorgul]

I was invited to the stress test downloaded the game (multiple times) loaded my MOM beta key successfully but keep getting an unspecified patch error when trying to connect to the MOM beta server. Is there any advice from Turbine on how to address this issue? Thanks!!

[Andryhanel]

I could not do any solo quest on my minstrel at all without dying

You are bad at this game.

[Arador2]

You are bad at this game.

Yo Greenleaf go read the gaurdian forums and read how the sky is falling over there, honestly I could live without a whiny LM that has never even experienced any of the MoM upgrades, plus this forum is about MoM not whining about how they "nerfed" your class.

Just don't knock until you have tried it.


.

[Yito_Graft]

*SNIP*
Just don't knock until you have tried it.
*SNIP*

Thank you. I have heard up, down, left, right, sidways, and diagnal. Now I know we all love the character we play, but for the love of pete playing the lute on a full moon night with a glass of tom's best ale watching Gandolf smoke ships! Ok, that didn't make sence, but just wait and play the game. If you don't like it; leave. If you find you enjoy it; GREAT! There are a lot of MMO's out there, and at this point almost one for every style. The sky is not falling, and there is light at the end of the tunnel.

[Action-Jackson]

Anyone who think lore-master and minstrel are overpowerwed are fools. Each class must be capable of solability so they all must have some DPS to be able to play the whole amount of solo content and to be able to level up.



As I said before, if going through the solo content and leveling up is a tedious chore then it is no fun indeed and it's not challenging at all. What you call challenge, I call it frustration. And do you know what people do when they frustrate? They quit. Do you know why there are not many lore-master and minstrels? Because most quit before getting to 20.

I could not do any solo quest on my minstrel at all without dying, heals are useless if you keep being interrupted, I had the luck to have a friend and a guildy to help me out, otherwise I would have never been able to level up my minstrel and heal people in group and book quest later. Ever! I would have probably deleted her for being too weak and I do not want to come back to this and yet this is exactly where minstrels will be back to once Moria will come out. Once my minstrel got to 20 and I got war-speech, I managed to finally get through the content by myself soloing but again, thinking minstrels are overpowered are just a bunch of fools because it's still long fights to fight and trying not to be interruted and I've never done anything out of the ordinary with my minstrel. It's the same with my lore-master who was very tough to level to 20 as well like my minstrel. Again I was lucky to get some help and around 20 I got enough CC to not die in 10 seconds, at 30 I got the lynx which helps too because the lynx is more DPS than the other pets but I'm still terribly squishy. I play other classes as well and I've never had these problems with my guardian, hunter and burglar, these three went through the solo content and leveling easy, in particular the hunter. As I said again, all classes must be able to solo the content, right now minstrel and lore-master manage to pull it off without being in god mode and things should stay that way. Otherwise, it will be too frustrating, not challenging, and as I said above, when it's too frustrasting, people quit. I don't intent to get my misntrel and my lore-master in Moria as long as this problem is not resolved. I play the game, and pay the devs, to have fun, not to scream and curse my screen all day long.

And by the way, I prefer playing complex classes hence why I'm playing minstrel, burglar and lore-master and I will be adding soon rune-keeper and warden once Moria comes out.

I can't help but think that if you would change your play style a bit, you wouldn't run into so many problems. My main is a Mins that I leveled before WS was an option and I had no problems. You have fears and stuns, use those and then try to heal. Same with my LM: manage your agro, use your stuns, roots, and use your pet, let it get beat up. Sounds like you try to cast while you're getting beat on and that just isn't going to work like you want it to. Can't play the "complex classes" like you can straight DPS classes and not expect to get hit. Doesn't work that way, shouldn't work that way.

Mins and LM don't dual wield chainsaws. Play to their strengths or go back to the Hunter/champ and mow everything down. The sky is not falling.

[eanamdar]

So untrue.. no one is going to stop playing the class just because something changed. You are over reacting and taking others word on something that you haven't even played.



Yes LM's have ALWAYS been over powered. Haven't you seen the Coldbear video of the Loremaster soloing an arch-nemisis? If not, look it up on Youtube...

I have no need to look at any video, I've been playing a LM since closed beta. I know exactly what a LM can and can't do. LM are in no way overpowered. Compare a LM to a Cap or Hunt, you will see the truth.

[wgc01]

Is it just me or does the icon attached to this thread on the main forum page(the same as marketroid's icon) make you think of a cylon?

ZOMG the Witch King is the 12th!!!

LOL I knew it, that darn witch king, is a cylon indeed..

[macdadg]

I leveled my minstrel up to 34 before warspeech and retired him because he wasn't any fun to play. He was overpowered. I could sit and let mobs beat on me all day and not die, and just stab-stab them with a dagger until they died.

After warspeech was introduced, I deleted him.

You can easily get off a heal between hits as long as you arent going against 3+ mobs. If you have got more than 3 mobs on you, you need to learn to control aggro.

[fly351]

I have no need to look at any video, I've been playing a LM since closed beta. I know exactly what a LM can and can't do. LM are in no way overpowered. Compare a LM to a Cap or Hunt, you will see the truth.

Thats fine, either way I don't know of any other class that could solo COLD BEAR. Or any other arch nemisis for that matter. How can you even compare a LM to a Captain or Hunter? I mean really they are not even remotely close to the same lol.

ps- to greenleaf37911... you said a mini was harder to level the a burg?? I completely disagree, my burg was much harder to level I thought do to the lack of AoE's. I could hardly take 2 mobs down at once, let alone 3. My mini had no trouble at all in WS..

[eanamdar]

Thats fine, either way I don't know of any other class that could solo COLD BEAR. Or any other arch nemisis for that matter. How can you even compare a LM to a Captain or Hunter? I mean really they are not even remotely close to the same lol.

ps- to greenleaf37911... you said a mini was harder to level the a burg?? I completely disagree, my burg was much harder to level I thought do to the lack of AoE's. I could hardly take 2 mobs down at once, let alone 3. My mini had no trouble at all in WS..

The comparison of LM to Min or Cap, is one of general power. Every class is played in a unique way, with unique skills, and tactics. However, you can have a simple comparison by see how the "average" in each class can solo the same mob. Each will do it in a different way, but in the end that won't matter.

As far as the Coldbear video, it's validity can be questioned. Besides, we're not discussing uber gear, weapons, ect, we're talking "average", in "normal" game play.

The questions are just this simple:
1. Compare the ability of a LM to level up, solo, from 40-50 in SoA, to the other classes.
2. Compare the ability of a LM to level up, solo, from 40-50 in MoM, to the other classes.

The answers to those questions will provide the data we need. All professions should be equal in this respect, although the methods will be different.

[jayspeed]

I can't help but think that if you would change your play style a bit, you wouldn't run into so many problems. My main is a Mins that I leveled before WS was an option and I had no problems. You have fears and stuns, use those and then try to heal. Same with my LM: manage your agro, use your stuns, roots, and use your pet, let it get beat up. Sounds like you try to cast while you're getting beat on and that just isn't going to work like you want it to. Can't play the "complex classes" like you can straight DPS classes and not expect to get hit. Doesn't work that way, shouldn't work that way.

Mins and LM don't dual wield chainsaws. Play to their strengths or go back to the Hunter/champ and mow everything down. The sky is not falling.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I leveled my mins to 50 before we got WS. It wasn't as easy as my champion but it was just as fun to me. I don't want to sound like an #$%@ but if you have a hard time leveling any class in this game thru solo content then you might want to try another hobby cause this is one of the easiest MMO's I've played. It is very casual friendly but I don't think the casuals, like myself, would have any more trouble leveling if mobs were a little bit tougher.

[Overtone]

If you have class specific, or PvMP specific topics you'd like to discuss, please use the appropriate forums.

These were the words of Sapience in the OP of this thread. So please go to the appropriate thread, thanks.

[Overtone]

Crafting Again:

I have read in other places that GM Crafting has changed and now there are specializations. For instance, I have a toon that is a GM in Metalsmith and Tailoring. I have heard that he can only specialize T6 in one of those areas. Is this true? If so, what is the new arrangement for GM tiers and specialization?

By the way, thanks for the replies to my questions earlier in this thread.

[gildhur]

I have read in other places that GM Crafting has changed and now there are specializations. For instance, I have a toon that is a GM in Metalsmith and Tailoring. I have heard that he can only specialize T6 in one of those areas. Is this true? If so, what is the new arrangement for GM tiers and specialization?

Crafting has not "changed". There is just new stuff added.

Each character can select one profession from their vocation and join that Guild. You get recipes from the Guild to craft Guild tokens, which are turned in for rep (and used in other recipes - later). At each level of rep, you can buy new recipes that output crit versions of one-shots, but require the appropriate level shard and a guild token of that tier. For instance, at Ally rep with the Woodworker Guild, I can craft an Ornate Black Ash Bow with a beryl shard, T5 woodworker token, and the other necessary components, and I don't have to worry about missing. It's a guaranteed crit. Then at Kindred level you get both Tier 6 one-shot recipes and access to legendary crafting recipes of your profession, which make high level purple legendary weapons or class items that anyone can then identify and use like any other legendary item.

But the additional Tier 6 crafting and the lower tiers are all standard crafting levels. Nothing about that has changed, except the Guild stuff added on top of it.

[fly351]

The comparison of LM to Min or Cap, is one of general power. Every class is played in a unique way, with unique skills, and tactics. However, you can have a simple comparison by see how the "average" in each class can solo the same mob. Each will do it in a different way, but in the end that won't matter.

As far as the Coldbear video, it's validity can be questioned. Besides, we're not discussing uber gear, weapons, ect, we're talking "average", in "normal" game play.

The questions are just this simple:
1. Compare the ability of a LM to level up, solo, from 40-50 in SoA, to the other classes.
2. Compare the ability of a LM to level up, solo, from 40-50 in MoM, to the other classes.

The answers to those questions will provide the data we need. All professions should be equal in this respect, although the methods will be different.

Captain and Mini can almost be thrown into the same range of "power", but there is no way you can include a Loremaster... From everything I have seen and played (have a lvl 31 LM) the LM is always more powerful. CC's beat all in this game, its just a fact.

Don't cry cuz your getting "balanced" to the rest of the classes, it happens.

[Yito_Graft]

Crafting has not "changed". There is just new stuff added.

Each character can select one profession from their vocation and join that Guild. You get recipes from the Guild to craft Guild tokens, which are turned in for rep (and used in other recipes - later). At each level of rep, you can buy new recipes that output crit versions of one-shots, but require the appropriate level shard and a guild token of that tier. For instance, at Ally rep with the Woodworker Guild, I can craft an Ornate Black Ash Bow with a beryl shard, T5 woodworker token, and the other necessary components, and I don't have to worry about missing. It's a guaranteed crit. Then at Kindred level you get both Tier 6 one-shot recipes and access to legendary crafting recipes of your profession, which make high level purple legendary weapons or class items that anyone can then identify and use like any other legendary item.

But the additional Tier 6 crafting and the lower tiers are all standard crafting levels. Nothing about that has changed, except the Guild stuff added on top of it.

The questioin then is do I go for woodworking or weaponsmith guild for my hunter? I want both..... I probly will go woodworking to make legendary bows and stuff, but depends on what kind of traps you can make from the guild side.

[davymaxwell]

You are bad at this game.

Understatement of the century! If you can't solo up to 50 on a Mins you really have no clue how to play this game! Mins and Hunter are the 2 easiest classes to solo on, with champs coming in right behind them! LMs are the toughest, but that is what makes them fun to play! They aren't just mindless DPSers! You actually have to use your brain in just about every encounter...