New outfits, decorations, and housing room add-ons (DSL warning!)

[Thoroval]

Already in game. Rep recipe (Wardens of Annuminas) and crafted by Weaponsmiths.
http://www.lotrolife.com/lotro_housi...e_candlestand/

Still love what you've done here Agamemnon.

#174 Carved Candelabra

Hook: Thin Furniture
Requirements: None

[AgamemnonV1]

Grr...Will change.

EDIT: Alright, it's changed to something else.

[floon]

(a bunch)

You ask me to explain the existence of fishing, if we're so down on fluff? It's simple: you're the one reading that we're *so* down on fluff. I've said it several times: there are priorities. That doesn't mean, "We don't ever do fluff if there are other things yet to do." It means there are priorities. And we have limited time.

And I've said we always manage a little fluff. But go look in other threads in other forums, and you'll see how many constituencies there are that want a lot of effort from us. And inevitably, when we are in a situation of having to juggle 14 balls at once, some of them are going to hit the floor: no change in that system for that book update. It may happen to the same system two updates in a row. But we have a lot of different folks to please, who want different things. Housing gets its share of effort.

[AgamemnonV1]

I'm not really looking for a "we're working on it," response, floon, just more of a, "it's a priority," because when you say fluff isn't important, it gives me the idea that you're not realizing people want these features just as much as they want new raiding content or new crafting recipes or what ever. The only reason I can see that fishing got moved up in prioritizing is because the squeaky wheel got the grease (every dev chat there was always someone bringing up fishing--so much that it became a running joke with you guys). Well, the wheels on housing are getting pretty sqeaky.

[Camdidus]

The only reason I can see that fishing got moved up in prioritizing is because the squeaky wheel got the grease (every dev chat there was always someone bringing up fishing--so much that it became a running joke with you guys). Well, the wheels on housing are getting pretty sqeaky.

Hey Agamemnon, this is only partially accurate. We had been asking about fishing as far back as beta, and look how long it took to finally get in game.

2 cents.

[AgamemnonV1]

True, and the same happened with housing as well, except housing came out much, much sooner than housing did. The only trouble is that fishing has been pretty polished (though I suppose it could be argued that not as much resources had to go in doing so for fishing as opposed to housing) while housing has remained unchanged for over a year now.

[blarg07]

it gives me the idea that you're not realizing people want these features just as much as they want new raiding content or new crafting recipes or what ever.

Yet I would imagine that the percentage of players who want the latter (raiding, quests, recipes) would far outweigh those who are focused on housing. This isn't to say the housing should be ignored, but it is most likely going to be a notch or two below quests/raids/etc as floon stated. If there was no housing, people would still play the game, but if there were no quests or content then the whole game would be a ghost town.

Look at it this way: If Turbine released book 8 and it had no new quest content and nothing addressing various class issues, but just focused on housing, the uproar would be much greater than if they continue on with the major focus being questing and the "fluff" getting added when they can.

[AgamemnonV1]

Except Turbine won't do that, and I'm not asking them to either. The other side is more than pleased because they have tons and tons of content to choose and pick from; why else do you think the top threads going on in the suggestion board has to do with housing? I mean, when does it register on the radar? When another 50 people give these ideas the thumbs up? Or we get a third thread asking for a total overhaul to housing?

[Beechbark]

Yet I would imagine that the percentage of players who want the latter (raiding, quests, recipes) would far outweigh those who are focused on housing. This isn't to say the housing should be ignored, but it is most likely going to be a notch or two below quests/raids/etc as floon stated. If there was no housing, people would still play the game, but if there were no quests or content then the whole game would be a ghost town.

Look at it this way: If Turbine released book 8 and it had no new quest content and nothing addressing various class issues, but just focused on housing, the uproar would be much greater than if they continue on with the major focus being questing and the "fluff" getting added when they can.

I somewhat doubt if this is entirely true. Already, we have a second raid coming out with book 7, and for a kin to get everything they want from the watcher will take a long, long time on the current timers. You have to get each person shoulders and helm, and then add in actually getting good first age usable legendaries, that is a nice little timesink once a week. Couple that with the new raid, and you have 2-3 days a week worth of repeatable content.

The majority of people should be kept busy with getting their gear out of these places for at least the next year. Yes, some people will burn through it much faster, but that doesn't mean most will.

I think with the new zone and the new raid and everything else that is going on, plus the nice changes to pvmp, most content hounds will still be busy doing something. I think there is probably a great chunk of time available to get some backlogged things out of the way, and housing would be a great choice.

At the very least, if we cant have changes to housing, PLEASE make all the housing decorations NOT BOUND so my VAULT is not clogged with items I don't want to give up but have nowhere else to put because my house is already full. At the very least, festival items should not be bound, period. That is taking up almost 10 bank slots alone. I have to keep bags on me full of bound items because I have nowhere to put them.

Right now, I would happily pay anywhere from 20g on up for more bank slots, without question or pause. I would probably pay 50g and not blink. I want more space for all this stuff. I need more space. Or, let me buy a second kin house (my neighborhood has a few) so I can store all these trophies and things.

[Northwoods]

Asking for more decorations for housing is throwing good money after bad. The housing system we have now is never what players wanted. It was done quickly as a "Check! We have player housing. Moving on now." system. And I have no faith it'll ever change into anything better. As Floon is so fond of pointing out: priorities. People are living with it in spite of it being a hack on an antiquated system, and there are more people clamoring for "content" than "fluff" so it's beating a dead horse.

Besides, what's the point of having more stuff to put in a house when there's no point to being in the house in the first place, beyond the extra storage. decorating is so limited with that laughable "hook" system, it's not like there's a place to put any of it.

And as for clothing: why bother with that either when the social clothes options border on hideous. Maybe a burlap sack for their heads so our avatars can hide the shame of how they're forced to dress might be a suitable addition, but I don't even have faith that that could be done without making it too embarrassing to wear either.

[BIGeyedBUG]

I think Adder has several very valid points here Floon. If "Fluff" were something so minor in the minds of players why are most (50-60% I'm guessing) of the posts on the suggestion threads have to do with non-core or "Fluff" content.

One reason that comes to mind is that "fluff" suggestions are relatively easy to make. They don't -require- extensive knowledge of game mechanics, power balancing, mathematics, the divergent priorities of hardcore/casual/solo/group/pvmp players, etc. And they're much less likely overall to get anything but positive attention from other players.

[mickey34]

I think housing is important. The fact that we only have certain amount of hooks in the house as well as only two chests for SEVEN toons is not enough.

I have thrown away trophies from Forochel because I do not have the room in my house. They are great trophies, I just like the Moria trophies better.

Can I pose a solution? Since housing is on the backburner for a while, is it practical to open up a second housing slot for you characters? That way, people will get an extra two chests, more hooks for their decorations, and the ability to go to another homestead if they desire.

[Ithlia]

People like to have more 'fluff' clothing options because a lot of them, in my opinion, want their characters to look unique. A couple weeks ago I grouped my Guardian with a Minstrel and the first thing she said was "hey! We look the same!" All I wanted to do after that was change my chars outfit.

I'd like to see more tops and bottoms that can be mixed and matched to create more options.

[crowthorne]

Give me another storage spot and you can take decorating out the game. For me personally the only reason I have trophies is because other people didnt want them. Its all good, if this isnt a priority, other things need to be taken care of. If turbine doesnt add new furniture they wont lose people. Make the new raid an epic failure and alot more will leave.

[FWH-Praetor]

You ask me to explain the existence of fishing, if we're so down on fluff? It's simple: you're the one reading that we're *so* down on fluff. I've said it several times: there are priorities. That doesn't mean, "We don't ever do fluff if there are other things yet to do." It means there are priorities. And we have limited time.

And I've said we always manage a little fluff. But go look in other threads in other forums, and you'll see how many constituencies there are that want a lot of effort from us. And inevitably, when we are in a situation of having to juggle 14 balls at once, some of them are going to hit the floor: no change in that system for that book update. It may happen to the same system two updates in a row. But we have a lot of different folks to please, who want different things. Housing gets its share of effort.

I vote for a "Month of the Fluff" hehe

I guess an alternative is to just keep adding a few fluff items every patch. Extra decorations and stuff like that. Sorta like the Pesky Mouse. I love stuff like that but in the long run, more quests and things to do will always trump fluff. I guess anything short of the system Star Wars Galaxies had will be a disappointment to me. That system rocked. One of the few things I loved about SWG.

[floon]

Doing a quick entity count, I found 295 hookable objects for housing. Half of them have been added since housing first went live. It gets consistent effort for additions.

I know there are complaints about the hooks, about storage, etc, etc. Yes, we know about those issues. Those are not easy issues to grapple with. And they're not going to change without a lot of effort. But several things about upkeep, and escrow, and other things have changed since it has gone live, and we've added a bunch, and we add new items *every* *single* *update*, so really, housing gets its attention.

[Airworthy]

I vote for a "Month of the Fluff" hehe

I agree. LMs and RKs also need some cheap tricks to conjure.

[Duredhel]

Doing a quick entity count, I found 295 hookable objects for housing.

So, I quickly skimmed this post and saw "295" "hook", and thought, "Whoa! I should maybe unlock my two houses and kinship hall and take a look at all these hooks!".

Then I read it again and realized you'd said "295 hookable objects". Doh...

[AgamemnonV1]

Doing a quick entity count, I found 295 hookable objects for housing. Half of them have been added since housing first went live. It gets consistent effort for additions.

I know there are complaints about the hooks, about storage, etc, etc. Yes, we know about those issues. Those are not easy issues to grapple with. And they're not going to change without a lot of effort. But several things about upkeep, and escrow, and other things have changed since it has gone live, and we've added a bunch, and we add new items *every* *single* *update*, so really, housing gets its attention.

How many are trophies I wonder?

[aethelberht]

Asking for more decorations for housing is throwing good money after bad. The housing system we have now is never what players wanted. It was done quickly as a "Check! We have player housing. Moving on now." system.

This unfortunately is how I feel too. There could be 2950 hookable objects and it still won't be a warm, inviting, manipulable, enjoyable house set within an active, dynamic, interesting neighborhood. It's just not a good system. I don't mean any offense to devs who I'm sure worked hard. They just put out a housing mechanic that, at its core, can't accomplish what housing & neighborhoods are supposed to accomplish.

That said, there are ways to make lemonade from lemons. Personally I'd rather the devs stop thinking up new objects and instead find some kinds of uses for those we have now. I'd love for produce from my summerfest garden to get me a discount at local shops; for a bed to give a 3% power boost for 10 minutes; or a fireplace to remove frostbite; or a dining table to come complete with chairs that can be sat in. That way at least a group can sort-of pretend like they're gathered for a meeting or a night of cards.

Integrate fluff with substance, and everyone wins. Churn out more junk that we don't have room for or use for, and everyone loses.

[Camdidus]

That said, there are ways to make lemonade from lemons. Personally I'd rather the devs stop thinking up new objects and instead find some kinds of uses for those we have now. I'd love for produce from my summerfest garden to get me a discount at local shops; for a bed to give a 3% power boost for 10 minutes; or a fireplace to remove frostbite; or a dining table to come complete with chairs that can be sat in. That way at least a group can sort-of pretend like they're gathered for a meeting or a night of cards.

Interesting idea. FFXI did this with their housing system. (as far as Square-Enix's storage goes, now THAT'S a messed up system.) I like this, but consider the ramifications of creating a new system for that. People then (and they will) start complaining and requesting more for that system. Grace needs to be given here. And time. LOTRO is coming up on 2 years old and this game has gone sooooo much further in 2 years than most other MMOs. (wheres tabula rasa, auto assault-i liked it!, mxo, swg, RF Online-total grind ftw!, Age of Conan, etc etc)

I would just ask people keep in mind how young this game really is. If this same discussion is being held 5-8 years into the game, then, there is a problem.

[Ray_skye]

One reason that comes to mind is that "fluff" suggestions are relatively easy to make. They don't -require- extensive knowledge of game mechanics, power balancing, mathematics, the divergent priorities of hardcore/casual/solo/group/pvmp players, etc. And they're much less likely overall to get anything but positive attention from other players.

To be honest ALL suggestions are easy to make. If I wanted to make a suggestion that all hobbits get a special "Pie-in-the-face" attack it would be easy to do so. Watch:

All hobbits should get a "Pie-in-the-face" special attack that blinds our foes.

See, a suggestion was made. Doesn't mean that it's popular or easily do-able. But since the suggestion forums are here to tell the devs what we want I think that it's rather significant that the "fluff" topics dominate the boards. I don't think I've seen a single "We need more quests/raids/instances" post in the top 3 pages. I don't think that any of the sane people in this thread are expecting all of this to be done by next week, that's a little too much, even for the dev-gods of Turbine. What we're asking for is that they try paying a little more attention to what is supposed to be a major feature of the game.

So far the impression that I get from Floon is a big middle finger on the housing upgrade cause "It's too hard". Sorry Floon, but the "low priority" argument doesn't hold too much water with me. It would be different if Turbine did a customer service survey with a "What would you like to see in the game" section. Right now it's just your psychic powers vs. the posts on the forums.

[BIGeyedBUG]

To be honest ALL suggestions are easy to make. If I wanted to make a suggestion that all hobbits get a special "Pie-in-the-face" attack it would be easy to do so. Watch:

All hobbits should get a "Pie-in-the-face" special attack that blinds our foes.

See, a suggestion was made. Doesn't mean that it's popular or easily do-able. But since the suggestion forums are here to tell the devs what we want I think that it's rather significant that the "fluff" topics dominate the boards. I don't think I've seen a single "We need more quests/raids/instances" post in the top 3 pages. I don't think that any of the sane people in this thread are expecting all of this to be done by next week, that's a little too much, even for the dev-gods of Turbine. What we're asking for is that they try paying a little more attention to what is supposed to be a major feature of the game.

So far the impression that I get from Floon is a big middle finger on the housing upgrade cause "It's too hard". Sorry Floon, but the "low priority" argument doesn't hold too much water with me. It would be different if Turbine did a customer service survey with a "What would you like to see in the game" section. Right now it's just your psychic powers vs. the posts on the forums.

All suggestions are easy to make. Not all suggestions are easy to make without looking foolish. Though I'd agree with you in that admittedly there are many players who don't seem much aware of the difference.

Btw, this isn't really a comment on whether fluff or housing should be more of a priority in this game or not, just that measuring how large a priority it is with LOTRO players as a whole by the number of posts about it in the Suggestion forum seems dubious to me.

Unfortunately the only non-dubious ways I can think of to answer the question concretely involve mass questionairing, and even that would entail some problems as a metric.

[ararax2]

Doing a quick entity count, I found 295 hookable objects for housing. Half of them have been added since housing first went live. It gets consistent effort for additions.

I know there are complaints about the hooks, about storage, etc, etc. Yes, we know about those issues. Those are not easy issues to grapple with. And they're not going to change without a lot of effort. But several things about upkeep, and escrow, and other things have changed since it has gone live, and we've added a bunch, and we add new items *every* *single* *update*, so really, housing gets its attention.

I've never had an issue about the objects we can place in our houses. I have had a problem with the hook system. But I'm sure it will be changed one day.

[Kraft]

... I know there are complaints about the hooks... not easy issues to grapple with.

So let me get this straight - you're having problems Grappling Hooks?

*watches the tumbleweed roll by*

Don't worry, I'm not giving up the day-job.