Warg-riders responding to heals with slows : WAI?

[archrr]

Thanks for fixing the Warg-riders, but is the fact that warg-riders will use hamstring if you have a heal ticking on you working as intended/desired? I assume that the trigger for the use of hamstring is a positive value in the threat table instead of the monster actually being harmed by an attack, resulting in this behavior.

It does lead to interesting gameplay choices though... should I risk near-certain death or do I want a certain slow while trying to escape?

Oh by the way, the mob slows are still stacking (you just know you will always get Hounding fear in tandem with hamstring... )

[Razann]

Why are you saying they are using hamstring in response to heals? In my experience, they hamstring you whether you have a heal or not, just like goblins will root you with a net so they ca n move away and use a ranged attack. This happens to me all the time and I rarely am using heals when it happens.

[Paestri]

Its seems the changes to warg-riders here http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Relea...e_AI.2FPathing

Creature AI/Pathing
* Warg-riders will no longer use their Hamstring/Ride-by-Attack skill until they have been attacked.

have been rolled back to pre book 2. They again now drive by snare you regardless if you act on them or not.

[BroadwayJizzie]

Yeah, burrowing critters still burrow whenever the heck they feel like it, also.

[rufen]

it still doing that as of book 8.

and sometime, even if I don't heal myself..

[ringaprometheus]

it still doing that..

Yup.

Whats even funnier, is. How after we strip a Warg of all its power in its power bar; that powerless Warg still manages to cast Fear and Wound bleeds on us? How's he doing that?

Knutor

[Destropre]

Whats even funnier, is. How after we strip a Warg of all its power in its power bar; that powerless Warg still manages to cast Fear and Wound bleeds on us? How's he doing that?

Or blocking and parrying, for that matter. That falls under the category of things Turbine was hoping you'd never notice. Being slightly more serious, all it means for a mob to have an empty power bar is that a LM can't drain any off of them.

[Erelgal2]

Or blocking and parrying, for that matter. That falls under the category of things Turbine was hoping you'd never notice. Being slightly more serious, all it means for a mob to have an empty power bar is that a LM can't drain any off of them.

I assumed it just meant that some or all of the mobs skills are 1-0 power cost per skill. So that you couldn't power drain a mob so that it couldn't use its specials and make the game easy mode for anyone with a LM. (that being said I find this a suitable tactic that should work on low green/blue/sig mobs but maybe not on elite+ mobs)

[Raskolnikov]

Thanks for fixing the Warg-riders, but is the fact that warg-riders will use hamstring if you have a heal ticking on you working as intended/desired? I assume that the trigger for the use of hamstring is a positive value in the threat table instead of the monster actually being harmed by an attack, resulting in this behavior.

After much investigation, digging into the script system, and talking to some senior engineers we've figured out what's going on here. You're basically right. When you generate threat, the Warg-riders go 'Oh boy! I can use my Hamstring skill now!' (Also, this applies to all the other monsters as well where I've said "X mob won't do Y skill now until he's attack".)

We have a couple ideas on fixes for this, but each has its own risk/cost/pro/con. I'm a strong proponent of getting this fixed, so we'll see what happens.

[gildhur]

Or blocking and parrying, for that matter. That falls under the category of things Turbine was hoping you'd never notice. Being slightly more serious, all it means for a mob to have an empty power bar is that a LM can't drain any off of them.

This is a three year old discussion. You really don't want mobs to only have three times as much Evade (the most powerful avoidance type), do you?

[Mafia]

Warg Riders hamstring me whether I hve a heal on me or not. I run by them doing the mirror quest from Jazargand and they throw a javelin at me and then hamstring me even when I do nothing to them. i have just come to accept it.

[Raskolnikov]

From an upcoming patch note: "Warg-riders have been reprimanded. They will (for real this time) no longer use their Hamstring/Ride-by-Attack skill until they have been actually attacked."

The usual caveats apply, such as QA finding that I totally broke every monster ever because of this change (which would mean I'd need to revert my change).

[Viloxus]

From an upcoming patch note: "Warg-riders have been reprimanded. They will (for real this time) no longer use their Hamstring/Ride-by-Attack skill until they have been actually attacked."

The usual caveats apply, such as QA finding that I totally broke every monster ever because of this change (which would mean I'd need to revert my change).

I don't see any issues with you breaking every other monster in the game as long as the break meant that they dropped a Symbol every time.

[gildhur]

From an upcoming patch note: "Warg-riders have been reprimanded. They will (for real this time) no longer use their Hamstring/Ride-by-Attack skill until they have been actually attacked."

lol. I was going to say, I could have sworn that already happened.

[KainXI]

From an upcoming patch note: "Warg-riders have been reprimanded. They will (for real this time) no longer use their Hamstring/Ride-by-Attack skill until they have been actually attacked."

The usual caveats apply, such as QA finding that I totally broke every monster ever because of this change (which would mean I'd need to revert my change).

Good dev, you get a rep cookie.

[Barruktp]

Let me guess, the first solution was:

If aggro=0, do(initiatiate.combat(no.hamst ring.attack))

when it should have been:

If (aggo=0 or aggro=healing.aggro), do(initiate.combat(no.hamstrin g.attack))

Am I close?

[Raskolnikov]

Let me guess, the first solution was:

If aggro=0, do(initiatiate.combat(no.hamst ring.attack))

when it should have been:

If (aggo=0 or aggro=healing.aggro), do(initiate.combat(no.hamstrin g.attack))

Am I close?

Nope.

The Hamstring skill had a requirement of "Attacked". I had (wrongly) assumed "Attacked" meant the monster had to be attacked by a player. What it actually meant was that a player only had to generated threat against the monster.

So, Mr. Minstrel goes running by the Warg-rider and heals/buffs himself (which generates threat) and Mr. Warg-rider goes, "You generated threat! That means I've been "Attacked", now I get to Hamstring you!"

[Eliel]

Nope.

The Hamstring skill had a requirement of "Attacked". I had (wrongly) assumed "Attacked" meant the monster had to be attacked by a player. What it actually meant was that a player only had to generated threat against the monster.

So, Mr. Minstrel goes running by the Warg-rider and heals/buffs himself (which generates threat) and Mr. Warg-rider goes, "You generated threat! That means I've been "Attacked", now I get to Hamstring you!"

Why do I suddenly have a mental image of the Warg-Rider showing up in People's Court with a fake neck-brace on?

[KouklaGirl]

I love it when they B/P/E when they are stunned...or even better yet, when you get one of the aforementioned notices after they are already dead.

[Griffy]

So, Mr. Minstrel goes running by the Warg-rider and heals/buffs himself (which generates threat) and Mr. Warg-rider goes, "You generated threat! That means I've been "Attacked", now I get to Hamstring you!"

Wonderful story Unca Rask. Tell us more of tasty minstrels. /howls

Which actually made me think of a question: Do speed buffs, ie: Capt's make haste, champ's sprint, cause threat, and would just get them hamstringed too?

[Raskolnikov]

Yup, any buff that caused threat would've triggered this.